Re: opinion on Choice 1

[charlie derr]

On 4/4/21 7:37 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> Non-voting posters to debian-vote are almost exclusively outside agitators
> and there's no reason subscribing to debian-vote should mean receiving their
> bullshit in our mailboxes.


i don't disagree with any of the above, but in order to try to lend a
bit of balance (because i do think it's a shame), i just wanted to offer
my own point of view, as an avid user of debian/GNU linux for something
like 2 1/2 decades who is *not* a debian developer.

Obviously there's a breadth of opinion among debian developers on this
particular issue, and as often seems to be the case *whenever* GRs get
proposed and discussed, tempers and emotions can run high.

But i'm quite impressed with the overall tenor of the conversation which
took place in this discussion period. Especially the way that (contrary
to what i've witnessed in so many (almost all that i've ever paid
attention to?) other internet forums) many sub-threads which became
quite inflammatory (with respect to the rhetoric used) at certain
points, so often were brought back to salient issues and *away* from
outright hostility by other participants working hard to redirect the
conversations back "on track". Not always (as i'm sure most who've been
following the list postings well know), but often enough for me to take
heart in both the structure (debian constitution) and the character of
almost every single developer i've witnessed engage in this incredibly
divisive debate/dialogue.

It seems a pretty great example of tolerating dissenting opinions (that
i strive to emulate), which is doubly interesting as in this case, the
specific topic is also about the same thing (tolerating dissenting
opinions (or not) and to what degree, it is appropriate to do so).

   thanks,
   ~c




-- 
Charlie Derr   Director, Instructional Technology 413-528-7344
https://www.simons-rock.edu Bard College at Simon's Rock
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Re: -= PROPOSAL =- Release sarge with amd64

[charlie derr]

Michael Banck wrote:
On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 09:19:55AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
Well, no, but i believe that new kernel release handling deserve it too,
and not this almost a month if not more wait from upload to NEW queue
handling we are currently seing. And i have sent a non-flame mail to
ftp-masters, proposing help on handling of this, like overviewing the
changes between versions and proposing a resume of it, to help the
ftp-masters job, but to this date, i hardly have seen a reply. 

Sven, I guess everybody would be much more sympathetic to your cause if
you would not use every remotely connected opportunity to argue about
it. ("Oh! Somebody said ftp-master! Better jump in there!")
Michael
A lot of the suggestions by people defending the status quo seem quite
contradictory.  On the one hand, it seems perfectly acceptable that
communications toward the people with the power go unanswered (because
these are busy people, they're volunteers, etc...).  On the other hand,
the people who continue to seek a dialog on specific issues are told
that by repeatedly "bothering" the people with the power, they're
actually hurting their cause (because annoying them in this way is such
a burden that it probably means that the specific issue will get "less"
attention than it would have otherwise).   The logical conclusion is
that with the exception of the (relatively few) folks with some sort of
personal relationship with those who hold the power, everyone else
should be content to simply state their case(s) once.
My view is that the people who make more noise about things that they
perceive as needing improvement should be rewarded for their
perseverance.
just my (non-DD) .019... cents,
~c
p.s. While it can be somewhat entertaining (in a "watching a car wreck"
kind of way), the level of hostility in these ongoing discussions is
really quite amazing.  I suppose it's a tribute to the underlying
beliefs that tie us all together (free software) that the project
doesn't (hasn't yet?) implode(d).  Nevertheless, it seems that perhaps
taking a few deep breaths (or even waiting a few hours/days) before
replying to someone on the opposite side of the issue might be good
advice for all of us.
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