Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
On 31.03.21 00:28, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: > CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: > > This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with > our constitution, section 4.1.5. > > The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation > are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. > > We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the > governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and > serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a > number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the > board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to > reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on > those complainants. > > The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where > those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for > their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes > is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that > Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from > issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard > remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. > > We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in > March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work > tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through > properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their > voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its > power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including > a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. > > We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which > reinstated him, to consider their positions. > > The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all > walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength > of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that > all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and > secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. > > END CHOICE TEXT Seconded. Thank you. Kind regards Philipp Kern OpenPGP_0x50C3634D3A291CF9.asc Description: application/pgp-keys OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
Hello, On Tue 30 Mar 2021 at 11:28PM +01, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: > CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: > > This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with > our constitution, section 4.1.5. > > The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation > are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. > > We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the > governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and > serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a > number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the > board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to > reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on > those complainants. > > The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where > those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for > their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes > is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that > Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from > issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard > remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. > > We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in > March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work > tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through > properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their > voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its > power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including > a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. > > We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which > reinstated him, to consider their positions. > > The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all > walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength > of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that > all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and > secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. > > END CHOICE TEXT Seconded. -- Sean Whitton signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
This option is now also on the website. Kurt
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
On 3/31/21 1:20 AM, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 08:13:59PM -0500, Richard Laager wrote: On 3/30/21 5:28 PM, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which reinstated him, to consider their positions. Can you elaborate on the intended meaning here? Is "position" their position to reinstate RMS, or their position as a member of the board? Is this intentionally "consider" as opposed to "reconsider"? If so, is that intended to be a weaker form of reconsider? No, and no. "To consider one's position" in business and politics is a (probably rather English) euphemism; being invited to consider your position is a clear indication that you ought to be resigning over some matter. Thanks for clarifying. I'm an en-US speaker and I was not familiar with that (possibly en-GB) euphemism. -- Richard OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
On 3/30/21 5:28 PM, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with our constitution, section 4.1.5. The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on those complainants. The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which reinstated him, to consider their positions. The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. END CHOICE TEXT Seconded. Signed this time. Ugh! -- Richard OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
On 3/30/21 5:28 PM, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with our constitution, section 4.1.5. The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on those complainants. The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which reinstated him, to consider their positions. The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. END CHOICE TEXT Seconded. -- Richard
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 3/30/21 6:28 PM, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: [...] > > CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: > > This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with > our constitution, section 4.1.5. > > The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation > are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. > > We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the > governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and > serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a > number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the > board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to > reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on > those complainants. > > The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where > those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for > their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes > is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that > Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from > issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard > remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. > > We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in > March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work > tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through > properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their > voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its > power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including > a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. > > We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which > reinstated him, to consider their positions. > > The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all > walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength > of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that > all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and > secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. > > END CHOICE TEXT > Seconded. Milan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQGzBAEBCgAdFiEEVkf/m69krCYf+z+G6e1ngbRVCQ4FAmBkZ5cACgkQ6e1ngbRV CQ6+qgwAtnfJggIpWzm6sGsyv3YyPyHXMbVCbU92SQ3WFHdlu5CVrvB7BSJKABoZ 6PTrSGhfmklBsajYWIzUPh+PIHQxCa8ntcah7goiyRdJHCkIdtvcTAgQ3iiUBoIU F/z+/RMX2AARByOKJuAn901fvhFag8w48KjP52dmQ50RXTw1MYAk85lfJ/kt9zIz h6Jf7fKP73+xIAntRM9rx317X5vFZJGUWDN75qDGWPsvskxEchxHaTygLP3iufl3 OYzZH8Etw4f4umsR1aeGJdLdo+jikh+H5Gmv/lCkvl+7+323YyUknI70yqCLFVCy TZKrDPnOH+JXLmd7Q8X8iXCfy/6TXKujH7IvtVazIvqsBt6Z4shaVFoKwokes50r LGOTbWLhjxPo9/KvU77IFZLB0axtBrbYr1mogXs5T9qdJOttiTnyVFfzIlhbyo/n qNcK7MFe9qIrNQ0OM82GIAo9dkoUV6xx4kKM1iK4FjFr54N4LpI4k+fSF8OMNs/+ Vo2uHkT2 =6iuA -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
Jonathan Wiltshire writes: > CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: > > This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with > our constitution, section 4.1.5. > > The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation > are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. > > We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the > governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and > serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a > number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the > board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to > reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on > those complainants. > > The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where > those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for > their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes > is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that > Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from > issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard > remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. > > We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in > March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work > tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through > properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their > voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its > power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including > a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. > > We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which > reinstated him, to consider their positions. > > The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all > walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength > of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that > all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and > secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. > > END CHOICE TEXT Seconded. -- Gard signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
Hi all, On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 11:28:47PM +0100, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: > This is a late amendment proposal which I hope seconders will feel able to > support in time for it to make the ballot paper. It is late because I feel > strongly that events in the past few days [1] [2] [3] [4] risk overtaking > this GR; Debian already has enough criticism for being slow to respond, and > I want to head off anything which might reinforce that view. > > 1: https://www.fsf.org/news/preliminary-board-statement-on-fsf-governance > 2: https://www.fsf.org/news/update-on-work-to-improve-governance-at-the-fsf > 3: > https://www.fsf.org/news/welcoming-ian-kelling-to-staff-seat-on-fsfs-board-of-directors > 4: > https://www.fsf.org/news/statement-from-the-fsf-board-of-directors-meeting-on-march-29-2021 > > I acknowledge that this text is not worded so strongly as many people would > like it to be. However, I don't believe in fueling fires and I would like > to see Debian calling for overhaul of FSF governance without joining any > lynch mobs. There are competing extreme opinions at the moment, and I'm > hoping this is a text on which we can have broader agreement. > > CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: > > This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with > our constitution, section 4.1.5. > > The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation > are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. > > We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the > governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and > serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a > number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the > board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to > reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on > those complainants. > > The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where > those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for > their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes > is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that > Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from > issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard > remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. > > We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in > March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work > tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through > properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their > voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its > power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including > a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. > > We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which > reinstated him, to consider their positions. > > The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all > walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength > of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that > all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and > secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. > > END CHOICE TEXT Seconded. Regards, Micha signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 11:28:47PM +0100, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: > CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: > > This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with > our constitution, section 4.1.5. > > The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation > are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. > > We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the > governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and > serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a > number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the > board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to > reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on > those complainants. > > The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where > those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for > their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes > is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that > Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from > issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard > remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. > > We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in > March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work > tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through > properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their > voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its > power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including > a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. > > We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which > reinstated him, to consider their positions. > > The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all > walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength > of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that > all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and > secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. > > END CHOICE TEXT Seconded. Thanks, Jonathan! -- cheers, Holger ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ PGP fingerprint: B8BF 5413 7B09 D35C F026 FE9D 091A B856 069A AA1C ⠈⠳⣄ Die Faktenlage bzgl. Klimakatastrophe ist so eindeutig und die Folgen sind so schwerwiegend, dass Parteien und Organisationen, die immer noch wirksame Maß- nahmen dagegen behindern, als verbrecherisch einzustufen sind. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
Jonathan Wiltshire wrote on 31/03/2021: This is a late amendment proposal which I hope seconders will feel able to support in time for it to make the ballot paper. It is late because I feel strongly that events in the past few days [1] [2] [3] [4] risk overtaking this GR; Debian already has enough criticism for being slow to respond, and I want to head off anything which might reinforce that view. 1: https://www.fsf.org/news/preliminary-board-statement-on-fsf-governance 2: https://www.fsf.org/news/update-on-work-to-improve-governance-at-the-fsf 3: https://www.fsf.org/news/welcoming-ian-kelling-to-staff-seat-on-fsfs-board-of-directors 4: https://www.fsf.org/news/statement-from-the-fsf-board-of-directors-meeting-on-march-29-2021 I acknowledge that this text is not worded so strongly as many people would like it to be. However, I don't believe in fueling fires and I would like to see Debian calling for overhaul of FSF governance without joining any lynch mobs. There are competing extreme opinions at the moment, and I'm hoping this is a text on which we can have broader agreement. CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with our constitution, section 4.1.5. The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on those complainants. The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which reinstated him, to consider their positions. The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. END CHOICE TEXT Seconded. OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
On 3/31/21 00:28, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: This is a late amendment proposal which I hope seconders will feel able to support in time for it to make the ballot paper. It is late because I feel strongly that events in the past few days [1] [2] [3] [4] risk overtaking this GR; Debian already has enough criticism for being slow to respond, and I want to head off anything which might reinforce that view. 1: https://www.fsf.org/news/preliminary-board-statement-on-fsf-governance 2: https://www.fsf.org/news/update-on-work-to-improve-governance-at-the-fsf 3: https://www.fsf.org/news/welcoming-ian-kelling-to-staff-seat-on-fsfs-board-of-directors 4: https://www.fsf.org/news/statement-from-the-fsf-board-of-directors-meeting-on-march-29-2021 I acknowledge that this text is not worded so strongly as many people would like it to be. However, I don't believe in fueling fires and I would like to see Debian calling for overhaul of FSF governance without joining any lynch mobs. There are competing extreme opinions at the moment, and I'm hoping this is a text on which we can have broader agreement. CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with our constitution, section 4.1.5. The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on those complainants. The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which reinstated him, to consider their positions. The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. END CHOICE TEXT Seconded. I still like some other option better but I want this to be an option too. Zlatan OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
Quoting Jonathan Wiltshire (2021-03-31 00:28:47) > This is a late amendment proposal which I hope seconders will feel able to > support in time for it to make the ballot paper. It is late because I feel > strongly that events in the past few days [1] [2] [3] [4] risk overtaking > this GR; Debian already has enough criticism for being slow to respond, and > I want to head off anything which might reinforce that view. > > 1: https://www.fsf.org/news/preliminary-board-statement-on-fsf-governance > 2: https://www.fsf.org/news/update-on-work-to-improve-governance-at-the-fsf > 3: > https://www.fsf.org/news/welcoming-ian-kelling-to-staff-seat-on-fsfs-board-of-directors > 4: > https://www.fsf.org/news/statement-from-the-fsf-board-of-directors-meeting-on-march-29-2021 > > I acknowledge that this text is not worded so strongly as many people would > like it to be. However, I don't believe in fueling fires and I would like > to see Debian calling for overhaul of FSF governance without joining any > lynch mobs. There are competing extreme opinions at the moment, and I'm > hoping this is a text on which we can have broader agreement. > > CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: > > This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with > our constitution, section 4.1.5. > > The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation > are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. > > We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the > governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and > serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a > number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the > board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to > reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on > those complainants. > > The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where > those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for > their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes > is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that > Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from > issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard > remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. > > We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in > March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work > tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through > properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their > voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its > power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including > a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. > > We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which > reinstated him, to consider their positions. > > The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all > walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength > of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that > all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and > secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. > > END CHOICE TEXT Seconded. This text adresses the concerns I have raised on this list (as far I I have so far been able to understand it - and due to the shortened processing time I hope that anyone spotting issues in it does so in time...). Thanks, Jonathan! - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 08:13:59PM -0500, Richard Laager wrote:
> On 3/30/21 5:28 PM, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote:
> > We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which
> > reinstated him, to consider their positions.
> Can you elaborate on the intended meaning here? Is "position" their position
> to reinstate RMS, or their position as a member of the board?
>
> Is this intentionally "consider" as opposed to "reconsider"? If so, is that
> intended to be a weaker form of reconsider?
No, and no. "To consider one's position" in business and politics is a
(probably rather English) euphemism; being invited to consider your
position is a clear indication that you ought to be resigning over some
matter. I've chosen this form of words for that recognition. The difference
between consdidering, reconsidering and continually considering is, I think
largely academic. What we really want is genuine reflection by individuals
on how their actions have been perceived.
> Looking at the text as a whole, while there is talk of accountability, it's
> unclear to me what you actually want to happen. In contrast, I am able to
> understand the other choices: Choice 1 says RMS and the FSF board all need
> to go. Choice A/2 says we are taking no position as a project. Choice B/3
> says RMS needs to go, and FSF needs to fix whatever allowed him to come
> back.
>
> Is the general sense here that you would find it acceptable that RMS stays
> on the board, as long as he/they acknowledge past
> ("mistakes"|"impropriety"), "learn from them[,] and change behavior"?
This is a position statement by an entire body of developers, by majority,
some options of which could be seen as dictating the actions of another
organisation. A number of people have already expressed discomfort at that
idea.
I'm suggesting that the developers as a whole take a broader position,
callling for reformative action at the top of the FSF and by extension the
whole free software community without dictating what it should be - but the
expectation being that some people got it wrong and ought to resign.
The statement calls for results, not how to get there and that is in part
to avoid it beoming dated too quickly. It leaves doors open in the future
only if certain expectations are genuinely and transparently met. Equally,
I do not seek to tie the hands of individuals who *do* wish to express a
desire for more specific actions and who are free to sign the original
petition or any other.
I'd acknowledge that it is a compromise. I'm looking for a text the whole
project can get behind without alienating more moderate voices
within our community.
--
Jonathan Wiltshire j...@debian.org
Debian Developer http://people.debian.org/~jmw
4096R: 0xD3524C51 / 0A55 B7C5 1223 3942 86EC 74C3 5394 479D D352 4C51
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
On 3/30/21 5:28 PM, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote:
We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which
reinstated him, to consider their positions.
Can you elaborate on the intended meaning here? Is "position" their
position to reinstate RMS, or their position as a member of the board?
Is this intentionally "consider" as opposed to "reconsider"? If so, is
that intended to be a weaker form of reconsider?
Looking at the text as a whole, while there is talk of accountability,
it's unclear to me what you actually want to happen. In contrast, I am
able to understand the other choices: Choice 1 says RMS and the FSF
board all need to go. Choice A/2 says we are taking no position as a
project. Choice B/3 says RMS needs to go, and FSF needs to fix whatever
allowed him to come back.
Is the general sense here that you would find it acceptable that RMS
stays on the board, as long as he/they acknowledge past
("mistakes"|"impropriety"), "learn from them[,] and change behavior"?
--
Richard
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
Le mardi 30 mars 2021 à 23:28:47+0100, Jonathan Wiltshire a écrit : > This is a late amendment proposal which I hope seconders will feel able to > support in time for it to make the ballot paper. It is late because I feel > strongly that events in the past few days [1] [2] [3] [4] risk overtaking > this GR; Debian already has enough criticism for being slow to respond, and > I want to head off anything which might reinforce that view. > > 1: https://www.fsf.org/news/preliminary-board-statement-on-fsf-governance > 2: https://www.fsf.org/news/update-on-work-to-improve-governance-at-the-fsf > 3: > https://www.fsf.org/news/welcoming-ian-kelling-to-staff-seat-on-fsfs-board-of-directors > 4: > https://www.fsf.org/news/statement-from-the-fsf-board-of-directors-meeting-on-march-29-2021 > > I acknowledge that this text is not worded so strongly as many people would > like it to be. However, I don't believe in fueling fires and I would like > to see Debian calling for overhaul of FSF governance without joining any > lynch mobs. There are competing extreme opinions at the moment, and I'm > hoping this is a text on which we can have broader agreement. > > CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: > > This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with > our constitution, section 4.1.5. > > The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation > are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. > > We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the > governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and > serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a > number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the > board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to > reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on > those complainants. > > The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where > those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for > their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes > is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that > Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from > issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard > remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. > > We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in > March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work > tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through > properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their > voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its > power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including > a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. > > We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which > reinstated him, to consider their positions. > > The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all > walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength > of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that > all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and > secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. > > END CHOICE TEXT Seconded. -- Pierre-Elliott Bécue GPG: 9AE0 4D98 6400 E3B6 7528 F493 0D44 2664 1949 74E2 It's far easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 11:28:47PM +0100, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: > This is a late amendment proposal which I hope seconders will feel able to > support in time for it to make the ballot paper. It is late because I feel > strongly that events in the past few days [1] [2] [3] [4] risk overtaking > this GR; Debian already has enough criticism for being slow to respond, and > I want to head off anything which might reinforce that view. > > 1: https://www.fsf.org/news/preliminary-board-statement-on-fsf-governance > 2: https://www.fsf.org/news/update-on-work-to-improve-governance-at-the-fsf > 3: > https://www.fsf.org/news/welcoming-ian-kelling-to-staff-seat-on-fsfs-board-of-directors > 4: > https://www.fsf.org/news/statement-from-the-fsf-board-of-directors-meeting-on-march-29-2021 > > I acknowledge that this text is not worded so strongly as many people would > like it to be. However, I don't believe in fueling fires and I would like > to see Debian calling for overhaul of FSF governance without joining any > lynch mobs. There are competing extreme opinions at the moment, and I'm > hoping this is a text on which we can have broader agreement. > > CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: > > This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with > our constitution, section 4.1.5. > > The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation > are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. > > We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the > governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and > serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a > number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the > board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to > reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on > those complainants. > > The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where > those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for > their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes > is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that > Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from > issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard > remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. > > We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in > March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work > tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through > properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their > voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its > power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including > a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. > > We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which > reinstated him, to consider their positions. > > The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all > walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength > of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that > all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and > secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. > > END CHOICE TEXT > Seconded. > > -- > Jonathan Wiltshire j...@debian.org > Debian Developer http://people.debian.org/~jmw > > 4096R: 0xD3524C51 / 0A55 B7C5 1223 3942 86EC 74C3 5394 479D D352 4C51 > signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
Le Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 11:28:47PM +0100, Jonathan Wiltshire a écrit : > CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: > > This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with > our constitution, section 4.1.5. > > The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation > are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. > > We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the > governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and > serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a > number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the > board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to > reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on > those complainants. > > The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where > those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for > their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes > is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that > Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from > issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard > remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. > > We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in > March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work > tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through > properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their > voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its > power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including > a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. > > We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which > reinstated him, to consider their positions. > > The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all > walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength > of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that > all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and > secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. > > END CHOICE TEXT Seconded. Thank you, -- Nicolas Dandrimont signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Amendment to RMS/FSF GR: Option 4, assert the need to learn and grow from recent events
This is a late amendment proposal which I hope seconders will feel able to support in time for it to make the ballot paper. It is late because I feel strongly that events in the past few days [1] [2] [3] [4] risk overtaking this GR; Debian already has enough criticism for being slow to respond, and I want to head off anything which might reinforce that view. 1: https://www.fsf.org/news/preliminary-board-statement-on-fsf-governance 2: https://www.fsf.org/news/update-on-work-to-improve-governance-at-the-fsf 3: https://www.fsf.org/news/welcoming-ian-kelling-to-staff-seat-on-fsfs-board-of-directors 4: https://www.fsf.org/news/statement-from-the-fsf-board-of-directors-meeting-on-march-29-2021 I acknowledge that this text is not worded so strongly as many people would like it to be. However, I don't believe in fueling fires and I would like to see Debian calling for overhaul of FSF governance without joining any lynch mobs. There are competing extreme opinions at the moment, and I'm hoping this is a text on which we can have broader agreement. CHOICE TEXT FOLLOWS: This is a position statement of the Debian Developers in accordance with our constitution, section 4.1.5. The Developers firmly believe that leaders in any prominent organisation are, and should be, held to the highest standards of accountability. We are disappointed that issues of transparency and accountability in the governance of the Free Software Foundation have led to unresolved and serious complaints of impropriety by its founder Richard Stallman over a number of years whilst in the position of president and as a member of the board. In particular, we are deeply concerned that the board saw fit to reinstate him without properly considering the effect of its actions on those complainants. The Developers acknowledge that people make mistakes but believe that where those people are in leadership positions, they must be held accountable for their mistakes. We believe that the most important part of making mistakes is learning from them and changing behaviour. We are most concerned that Richard and the board have not sufficiently acknowledged or learned from issues which have affected a large number of people and that Richard remains a significant influence on both the FSF board and the GNU project. We call upon the Free Software Foundation to further steps it has taken in March 2021 to overhaul governance of the organisation, and to work tirelessly to ensure its aim is fulfilled. We believe that only through properly accountable governance can members of an organisation ensure their voice is heard. The Free Software Foundation must do everything in its power to protect its staff and members, and the wider community, including a robust and transparent process for dealing with complaints. We urge Richard Stallman and the remaining members of the board which reinstated him, to consider their positions. The Developers are proud that contributors to free software come from all walks of life and that our diverse experience and opinions are a strength of software freedom. But we must never cease in our efforts to ensure that all contributors are treated with respect, and that they feel safe and secure in our communities - including when we meet in person. END CHOICE TEXT -- Jonathan Wiltshire j...@debian.org Debian Developer http://people.debian.org/~jmw 4096R: 0xD3524C51 / 0A55 B7C5 1223 3942 86EC 74C3 5394 479D D352 4C51 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
