Re: New option for the RMS/FSF GR: reaffirm the values of the majority

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Sun, Apr 04, 2021 at 06:09:53PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote:
> > "MK" == Matthias Klumpp  writes:
> 
> MK> I did actually read this as satire and was quite amused by it
> 
> I’m not amused by it.  I liked the 1st April joke, but this is not fun
> anymore and the fact that someone as respectful as Enrico does that
> makes me thinking about some ballot options in a different light.
> 
> I’d like to get rid of this matter and vote ASAP but considering
> something important and related can happen in two weeks (e.g. the whole
> FSF board may resign), is it possible to change a vote later during the
> voting period?  According to the constitution, 4.2.6, “The Secretary
> determines for each poll whether voters can change their votes.” but I
> can’t see this information in the ballot e-mail.

The software always allows you to change your vote.


Kurt

Re: New option for the RMS/FSF GR: reaffirm the values of the majority

[Milan Zamazal]

> "MK" == Matthias Klumpp  writes:

MK> I did actually read this as satire and was quite amused by it

I’m not amused by it.  I liked the 1st April joke, but this is not fun
anymore and the fact that someone as respectful as Enrico does that
makes me thinking about some ballot options in a different light.

I’d like to get rid of this matter and vote ASAP but considering
something important and related can happen in two weeks (e.g. the whole
FSF board may resign), is it possible to change a vote later during the
voting period?  According to the constitution, 4.2.6, “The Secretary
determines for each poll whether voters can change their votes.” but I
can’t see this information in the ballot e-mail.

Regards,
Milan

Re: New option for the RMS/FSF GR: reaffirm the values of the majority

[Jonathan Carter]

On 2021/04/04 05:47, Matthias Klumpp wrote:
> I did actually read this as satire and was quite amused by it - I
> didn't think it could have been read as a serious request until the
> first response to it.
I would appreciate it if we could keep satire and comedy a bit dialed
back for a but. As much as I appreciate satire and comedy, there is a
place and time for it, for example, you wouldn't practice your stand-up
routine at a funeral for a loved one. Also, there are classes of humor
that's really just not appropriate, and on top of all that, many of is
in the project are suffering from huge information overload. That is, we
have a backlog of information that needs to be processed, some which
will also affect the choices of both votes currently running. Adding
more noise that is difficult to filter and interpret is something that I
consider somewhere on a spectrum of insensitive to reckless.

So, I'm please asking again that posters to the list attempt to be more
mindful of what they consider to be humor to the list and the effects it
may have on others before doing so.

-Jonathan

Re: New option for the RMS/FSF GR: reaffirm the values of the majority

[Enrico Zini]

On Sat, Apr 03, 2021 at 11:51:29PM +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:

> It seems highly likely that the message to which I'm replying was not
> sent or authorized by Enrico, and that its sender is trying to mislead
> Debian members by impersonating a prominent and respected developer.

I can confirm it was not an impersonation attempt. My previous subkeys
are due to expire on 2021-06-03 and I've recently generated new ones.
They should be properly signed by my master key and I have uploaded them
to keyserver.ubuntu.com and keyring.debian.org

Using GPG became more complicated recently with the keyserver network
collapsing, and on a different venue I'd welcome a serious reassessment
of our technical practices of certifying trust :(

My proposal was a honest attempt at encoding in a straightforward
proposal the gist that I was perceiving from what seemed to me like the
majority of posts on -vote. I was honestly interested to see if that
represented the feelings of our community at large. If those are indeed
the feelings of the majority of a community I'm part of, it is extremely
important for me to know.

Even so, my proposal, although serious, was motivated mainly by
frustration, disappointment, and disgust.


Enrico

-- 
GPG key: 4096R/634F4BD1E7AD5568 2009-05-08 Enrico Zini 


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Re: New option for the RMS/FSF GR: reaffirm the values of the majority

[Matthias Klumpp]

Am So., 4. Apr. 2021 um 00:51 Uhr schrieb Simon McVittie :
>
> On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 at 21:46:08 +0200, someone claiming to be Enrico Zini 
> wrote:
> > We explicitly refuse to acknowledge irrelevant political issues
>
> I was surprised to read this apparently coming from Enrico, particularly
> since it doesn't seem consistent with what Enrico has said in other
> threads regarding RMS. It turns out not to be signed with the same key.
> [...]

I did actually read this as satire and was quite amused by it - I
didn't think it could have been read as a serious request until the
first response to it.
And writing satire is something Enrico would absolutely do ;-)

Cheers,
Matthias

-- 
I welcome VSRE emails. See http://vsre.info/

Re: New option for the RMS/FSF GR: reaffirm the values of the majority

[Holger Levsen]

On Sat, Apr 03, 2021 at 11:51:29PM +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
> It seems highly likely that the message to which I'm replying was not
> sent or authorized by Enrico, and that its sender is trying to mislead
> Debian members by impersonating a prominent and respected developer.

IRC revealed that the key used to sign this message might or might
not be the same as the one used to sign a message on April 1st.



IOW: I do "blame" Enrico for that mail, too. I also think it was one of the
best mails in these threads, by far.


-- 
cheers,
Holger

 ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
 ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁   holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org
 ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ PGP fingerprint: B8BF 5413 7B09 D35C F026 FE9D 091A B856 069A AA1C
 ⠈⠳⣄

I'm looking forward to Corona being a beer again and Donald a duck.


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Re: New option for the RMS/FSF GR: reaffirm the values of the majority

[Simon McVittie]

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 at 21:46:08 +0200, someone claiming to be Enrico Zini wrote:
> We explicitly refuse to acknowledge irrelevant political issues

I was surprised to read this apparently coming from Enrico, particularly
since it doesn't seem consistent with what Enrico has said in other
threads regarding RMS. It turns out not to be signed with the same key.

Key fingerprint used to sign
, matching
Enrico's key in the official Debian keyring:
1793 D6AB 7566 3E6B F104  953A 634F 4BD1 E7AD 5568

Key fingerprint used to sign the message to which I'm replying:
2490 211A D036 087E 6D1D  9A92 D0FF 49CB E3F4 FB68

It seems highly likely that the message to which I'm replying was not
sent or authorized by Enrico, and that its sender is trying to mislead
Debian members by impersonating a prominent and respected developer.

I don't think passing off a message as coming from a different author is
consistent with taking any sort of moral high ground (for example based
on a position of free speech, meritocracy or opposing "cancel culture")
and I'm disappointed to see it on Debian mailing lists.

smcv


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Re: New option for the RMS/FSF GR: reaffirm the values of the majority

[gregor herrmann]

On Sat, 03 Apr 2021 21:46:08 +0200, Enrico Zini wrote:

> Hello,

Hm?

| --
| GPG key: 4096R/634F4BD1E7AD5568 2009-05-08 Enrico Zini 
| 
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| 
| [-- PGP output follows (current time: Sun Apr  4 00:09:30 2021) --]
| gpg: Signature made Sat Apr  3 21:46:04 2021 CEST
| gpg:using RSA key 2490211AD036087E6D1D9A92D0FF49CBE3F4FB68
| gpg: requesting key 0xD0FF49CBE3F4FB68 from hkps server 
hkps.pool.sks-keyservers.net
| gpg: Can't check signature: No public key
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Cheers,
gregor

-- 
 .''`.  https://info.comodo.priv.at -- Debian Developer https://www.debian.org
 : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D  85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06
 `. `'  Member VIBE!AT & SPI Inc. -- Supporter Free Software Foundation Europe
   `-   NP: Orquesta Aragon: El Charlatan


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Re: New option for the RMS/FSF GR: reaffirm the values of the majority

[Felix Lechner]

Hi,

Thank you to Enrico Zini for another unifying proposal.

> Title: Reaffirm the values of the majority
>
> == CHOICE TEXT BELOW ==
> Debian commits to give priority, resources, and energy, to those who
> actually get the work done in the distribution.
>
> We explicitly refuse to acknowledge irrelevant political issues such as
> misogyny, ableism, transphobia and all other similar concerns that have
> nothing to do with the technical work that is the focus of our
> distribution.
>
> We also commit to respecting and preserving the good name of the people
> who write and maintain the software that we use daily. Should they
> become the target of accusations that may tarnish their well earned
> reputation, we will stand behind them and refuse to hold them
> accountable for anything except the quality of their technical
> contributions.
> ===

Seconded.

Kind regards
Felix Lechner


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New option for the RMS/FSF GR: reaffirm the values of the majority

[Enrico Zini]

Hello,

I think the ballot is missing an option to capture the energy that I've
perceived on -vote in the last few days.

Title: Reaffirm the values of the majority

== CHOICE TEXT BELOW ==
Debian commits to give priority, resources, and energy, to those who
actually get the work done in the distribution.

We explicitly refuse to acknowledge irrelevant political issues such as
misogyny, ableism, transphobia and all other similar concerns that have
nothing to do with the technical work that is the focus of our
distribution.

We also commit to respecting and preserving the good name of the people
who write and maintain the software that we use daily. Should they
become the target of accusations that may tarnish their well earned
reputation, we will stand behind them and refuse to hold them
accountable for anything except the quality of their technical
contributions.
===


Enrico

-- 
GPG key: 4096R/634F4BD1E7AD5568 2009-05-08 Enrico Zini 


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