Re: Q: Small tasks best on the fly? was: Q: All: Account creation latency
On Thursday 20 March 2008 07:33, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: > When you register to NM process, you're asked to check boxes if you > agree to Social Contract etc. But those checks aren't really enough. > What you have is to say (somewhere on a signed mail) that you agree. > Currently only the AM receives the mail, and translate this in his AM > report, using a signed mail. And we trust AM that the NM sure has agreed > to DSFG, Social Contract, … It's still a good idea to have, at some > point, the confirmation. Exactly why is that a good idea? The original signed mail is in the posession of the AM, the FD and the DAM. Could you point me to a point in the past where we really needed that signed mail but all of AM, FD and DAM for that DD were unable to produce it? Suppose we had it posted to the mailinglist then, what exactly were we going to use it for? A court case against someone breaking the social contract they "signed"? I would love to see some use cases before we introduce more hoops in any of our processes. Thijs pgpF4YFb1lYaM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Q: Small tasks best on the fly? was: Q: All: Account creation latency
On mer, 2008-03-19 at 16:45 +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > It seems logical that everybody who is AM approved has successfully > passed the various checks. Yes, but, as we say here: « cela va sans dire, mais ça va encore mieux en le disant » (“it goes without saying, but it goes better saying it”, sorry for the poor translation). When you register to NM process, you're asked to check boxes if you agree to Social Contract etc. But those checks aren't really enough. What you have is to say (somewhere on a signed mail) that you agree. Currently only the AM receives the mail, and translate this in his AM report, using a signed mail. And we trust AM that the NM sure has agreed to DSFG, Social Contract, … It's still a good idea to have, at some point, the confirmation. Maybe you'd prefer, like DM, that the mail would be sent, signed, to debian-nm? Cheers, -- Yves-Alexis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Q: Small tasks best on the fly? was: Q: All: Account creation latency
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008, MJ Ray wrote: > (For example, "answered all my questions about the social contract, > DFSG, BTS, etc. in a good way" leaps out at me. Not wrong, as such, > but that's an unusual way to put it - has any applicant ever been > described as answering them "in a bad way"?) Either he made mistakes but he has been corrected and learnt somehting, or he completely failed and ends up being rejected later. It seems logical that everybody who is AM approved has successfully passed the various checks. > The report appears to be structured already, even if it's looking like > pseudo-English. Would you support adding the extra information needed > for LDAP along with replacing the pseudo-English with details needed > for easy verification - bug numbers, package names and so on - in a > structured way? I'm not opposed but I'm not sure it's required either. I've been advocating a wiki page as "NM portfolio" but it was mainly to be able to choose who is ready to be processed by an AM and who is not. Because we don't want the AM to be the teacher but just someone that checks everything and gives his OK. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Le best-seller français mis à jour pour Debian Etch : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Q: Small tasks best on the fly? was: Q: All: Account creation latency
Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 19 Mar 2008, MJ Ray wrote: > > Are you (or any other candidates) arguing for an NM-portfolio, a > > document that summarises the applicant in a way that most developers > > could understand why the applicant was given an account, if they saw > > that document? > > We already have that with the short NM report sent to -newmaint. I disagree. They seem suspiciously formulaic and lack the detail. Compare and contrast http://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2007/12/msg4.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2007/12/msg00065.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2007/12/msg00070.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2008/02/msg2.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-newmaint/2008/03/msg0.html -- five different authors, but same strange turns of phrase. (For example, "answered all my questions about the social contract, DFSG, BTS, etc. in a good way" leaps out at me. Not wrong, as such, but that's an unusual way to put it - has any applicant ever been described as answering them "in a bad way"?) > I was mainly thinking of a structured document where all info > that need to be integrated in the LDAP are available (Name, Login, > Alternate email, Keyid, ...) so that a script can take that as input > and do all the job. The report appears to be structured already, even if it's looking like pseudo-English. Would you support adding the extra information needed for LDAP along with replacing the pseudo-English with details needed for easy verification - bug numbers, package names and so on - in a structured way? Regards, -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Q: Small tasks best on the fly? was: Q: All: Account creation latency
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008, MJ Ray wrote: > Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, 17 Mar 2008, MJ Ray wrote: > > > Is creating accounts really now a sub-two-minute task? If so, that's > > > great, but I believed there was still often a lot of multi-step > > > independent double-checking in that task. > > > > Honestly I don't know. But if it's not, then it gives us at least > > a precise idea of technical improvement: that process must be quick and > > the people in charge of steps before account creation should be able to > > prepare a document ready to be used by a tool that creates the account. > > The review of that document should be enough and the other checks should > > be automated by the tool. > > Are you (or any other candidates) arguing for an NM-portfolio, a > document that summarises the applicant in a way that most developers > could understand why the applicant was given an account, if they saw > that document? We already have that with the short NM report sent to -newmaint. I was mainly thinking of a structured document where all info that need to be integrated in the LDAP are available (Name, Login, Alternate email, Keyid, ...) so that a script can take that as input and do all the job. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Le best-seller français mis à jour pour Debian Etch : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Q: Small tasks best on the fly? was: Q: All: Account creation latency
Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 17 Mar 2008, MJ Ray wrote: > > Is creating accounts really now a sub-two-minute task? If so, that's > > great, but I believed there was still often a lot of multi-step > > independent double-checking in that task. > > Honestly I don't know. But if it's not, then it gives us at least > a precise idea of technical improvement: that process must be quick and > the people in charge of steps before account creation should be able to > prepare a document ready to be used by a tool that creates the account. > The review of that document should be enough and the other checks should > be automated by the tool. Are you (or any other candidates) arguing for an NM-portfolio, a document that summarises the applicant in a way that most developers could understand why the applicant was given an account, if they saw that document? Intrigued, -- MJ Ray (slef) Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ (Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Q: Small tasks best on the fly? was: Q: All: Account creation latency
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008, MJ Ray wrote: > Is creating accounts really now a sub-two-minute task? If so, that's > great, but I believed there was still often a lot of multi-step > independent double-checking in that task. Honestly I don't know. But if it's not, then it gives us at least a precise idea of technical improvement: that process must be quick and the people in charge of steps before account creation should be able to prepare a document ready to be used by a tool that creates the account. The review of that document should be enough and the other checks should be automated by the tool. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Le best-seller français mis à jour pour Debian Etch : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Q: Small tasks best on the fly? was: Q: All: Account creation latency
On 17/03/2008, MJ Ray wrote: > Is creating accounts really now a sub-two-minute task? If so, that's > great, but I believed there was still often a lot of multi-step > independent double-checking in that task. If not so, is that sooo long that there are only a couple of runs each *year*? -- Cyril Brulebois pgp1kNoffFrgL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Q: Small tasks best on the fly? was: Q: All: Account creation latency
Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 17 Mar 2008, MJ Ray wrote: > > Where is this well known? I thought opinion was divided. [...] > > I must admit that I've read some "Getting Things Done" related literature > and that this organization method usually suggests to do small tasks on the > fly instead of putting them in a TODO list as putting them in TODO list > takes almost as much time as doing them. [...] > http://wiki.43folders.com/index.php/GTD [...] > GTD is quite popular and has been discussed on planet Debian several times > together with the "Inbox Zero" principle... that's why I said "well-known". > But you're right that I should have given more references. > http://www.43folders.com/izero I'm familiar with Inbox Zero and use similar practices myself, even before I knew about it explicitly (thanks to the great gonzo again), but it looks like Just Flippin' Do It has a *really* small threshold under both systems there. That's understandable, else we'd never get out of our inboxes. Is creating accounts really now a sub-two-minute task? If so, that's great, but I believed there was still often a lot of multi-step independent double-checking in that task. Regards, -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Q: Small tasks best on the fly? was: Q: All: Account creation latency
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 10:40:18AM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > GTD is quite popular and has been discussed on planet Debian several times > together with the "Inbox Zero" principle... that's why I said "well-known". > But you're right that I should have given more references. Note that the whole Inbox Zero approach tends to recommend batch mode processing of your inbox as well as ensuring that you deal with everything when you are processing stuff. See for example: http://www.43folders.com/2006/03/15/email-dash -- "You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever." -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Q: Small tasks best on the fly? was: Q: All: Account creation latency
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008, MJ Ray wrote: > Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [...] It's well known that small > > task (when they take less than 5 minutes) are usually best done "on the > > fly" instead of accumulating them. [...] > > Where is this well known? I thought opinion was divided. See > Ganging your mosquito tasks http://www.43folders.com/2006/02/01/ganging-tasks > for example. I must admit that I've read some "Getting Things Done" related literature and that this organization method usually suggests to do small tasks on the fly instead of putting them in a TODO list as putting them in TODO list takes almost as much time as doing them. I do use GTD to keep up with all my work. (And an example of this "on-the-fly" processing is for creation of VCS repositories on Alioth) http://wiki.43folders.com/index.php/GTD GTD is quite popular and has been discussed on planet Debian several times together with the "Inbox Zero" principle... that's why I said "well-known". But you're right that I should have given more references. http://www.43folders.com/izero Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Le best-seller français mis à jour pour Debian Etch : http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
