Re: To all candidates: which way out of the project ?
On 2013-03-23 05:54, Paul Wise wrote: There are definitely people in that position (I can think of at least one), it would be interesting to quantify how many Debian members make no visible contributions, if for no other reason than making their contributions (if any) visible. Yes. But I would suggest that we should aim to build a really good contributor-tracking system, then treat as a useful side-effect/sanity-check the ability to diff with the list of project members and find possibly non-contributing members, rather than focusing energy directly on locating them. -- Moray -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/464a15978eefd6d102f0af38fa4f2...@www.morayallan.com
Re: To all candidates: which way out of the project ?
On 2013-03-22 23:23, Moray Allan wrote: As other replies have said, this seems to be much less of a solved problem in recent years Since someone asked: yes, this is an accidental blend from editing seems to be a solved problem insufficiently towards seems to be much less of a problem. I'll blame the fact I'd only slept for a couple of hours on a plane the previous night. -- Moray -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/315ecf8f3bec4d1246a386a0b9d3c...@www.morayallan.com
Re: To all candidates: which way out of the project ?
On 23/03/13 at 12:46 +0300, Moray Allan wrote: On 2013-03-23 05:54, Paul Wise wrote: There are definitely people in that position (I can think of at least one), it would be interesting to quantify how many Debian members make no visible contributions, if for no other reason than making their contributions (if any) visible. Yes. But I would suggest that we should aim to build a really good contributor-tracking system Or improve the existing ones, such as the 'echelon' field in ldap (= last mailing list post), the mia db, bapase (http://udd.debian.org/bapase.cgi), etc. let's not reinvent the wheel! L. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130323161613.ga8...@xanadu.blop.info
Re: To all candidates: which way out of the project ?
On 2013-03-23 19:16, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 23/03/13 at 12:46 +0300, Moray Allan wrote: Yes. But I would suggest that we should aim to build a really good contributor-tracking system Or improve the existing ones, such as the 'echelon' field in ldap (= last mailing list post), the mia db, bapase (http://udd.debian.org/bapase.cgi), etc. let's not reinvent the wheel! I did not intend to comment on *how* to build a really good system -- I don't think anyone is suggesting to throw away existing work or reinvent the wheel. There are indeed many useful tools for specific aspects of contributor tracking already; minechangelogs is another one you didn't mention. But a really good contributor-tracking system would tie together all of these aspects, would also know about e.g. people who do translations or design artwork, and would be capable of showing e.g. the number of people doing a type of task or the distribution of people across different activity levels, rather than just taking queries for individual people. -- Moray -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/46006bb802a7b3d5728e42aef...@www.morayallan.com
Re: To all candidates: which way out of the project ?
On 2013-03-20 05:22, Charles Plessy wrote: In Debian, we stay member until we die or quit (or very exceptionally, are expelled). The consequence is that it is hard to evaluate how much active members we have. It may also create more crispations about giving membership. As other replies have said, this seems to be much less of a solved problem in recent years, especially thanks to the work of the MIA team. The easy process for reactivating emeritus accounts seems to help encourage people to retire gracefully. It's still possible for someone to continue as a project member indefinitely if they want to, without doing any work, if they get rid of all their responsibilities first, but I don't think that a large enough number of people have taken this path that we need to worry much about it skewing votes. However, we do still more frequently have problems in relation to maintenance of individual packages; see, for example, the discussions around package salvaging. And I think we also have MIA problems in individual teams; see my platform for a few suggestions regarding that. -- Moray -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/6620fc0e982f5f14799f9c3091862...@www.morayallan.com
Re: To all candidates: which way out of the project ?
Le Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 10:15:32AM +0100, Gergely Nagy a écrit : Do you see a particular problem, or shortcoming, perhaps, that you'd like to see solved? Hi all, the problem I was trying to solve was to find more differences between the candidates :) For instance, one of you might have answered that he is really enthousiastic about yearly pings, or that he is very concerned about dormant accounts, or anything that I did not expect, etc. Thanks for your anwers, and have a nice week-end, -- Charles -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130323003226.gb30...@falafel.plessy.net
Re: To all candidates: which way out of the project ?
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 4:23 AM, Moray Allan wrote: retire gracefully. It's still possible for someone to continue as a project member indefinitely if they want to, without doing any work, if they get rid of all their responsibilities first, but I don't think that a large enough number of people have taken this path that we need to worry much about it skewing votes. There are definitely people in that position (I can think of at least one), it would be interesting to quantify how many Debian members make no visible contributions, if for no other reason than making their contributions (if any) visible. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caktje6esfmttmdb+nmkrthlftx+bmo8oc-6biffsx23f5gk...@mail.gmail.com
Re: To all candidates: which way out of the project ?
On 20/03/13 at 11:22 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: Hi, I did not manage to formulate a better subject... the question is about what should be the usual way to end our formal membership in the Debian project. In Debian, we stay member until we die or quit (or very exceptionally, are expelled). The consequence is that it is hard to evaluate how much active members we have. It may also create more crispations about giving membership. We often discussed about how to become a member, but more rarely about the other side of it. I would be interested to read your opinion, especially on the implications that the current practice, or possible changes, have for the project as a whole. As KiBi pointed out, we have MIA. And we also have WAT runs (the idea was to do regular pings of otherwise inactive DDs -- no vote, no upload during the last n months), though I'm not sure that WAT runs were done recently. (WAT runs: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2007/02/msg8.html) Inactive members are quite harmless, I'm not sure if we need to spend more work detecting them. Detecting inactive package maintainers is more much useful. Lucas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130320055725.gb19...@xanadu.blop.info
Re: To all candidates: which way out of the project ?
Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org writes: In Debian, we stay member until we die or quit (or very exceptionally, are expelled). The consequence is that it is hard to evaluate how much active members we have. It may also create more crispations about giving membership. We often discussed about how to become a member, but more rarely about the other side of it. I would be interested to read your opinion, especially on the implications that the current practice, or possible changes, have for the project as a whole. Inactive members can also be caught red-handed by way of the MIA team, as Cyril and Lucas mentioned already. I belive we do not need any more exits than what we already have: * People can gracefully retire completely * People can opt to become Emeritus * People can leave the project by natural means * People can be expelled * People can become inactive and spotted via MIA, and dealt with according to the MIA policies. That's plenty of ways already, pretty much all bases covered. We should, perhaps, be a bit more aggressive with MIA checks at times, but that does not really need any big sweeping changes within the project. Right now, uncaught inactive members are not much of a burden, except for having an active account, with all of its security and other implications. Do you see a particular problem, or shortcoming, perhaps, that you'd like to see solved? -- |8] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87k3p2a0uj@galadriel.madhouse-project.org
To all candidates: which way out of the project ?
Hi, I did not manage to formulate a better subject... the question is about what should be the usual way to end our formal membership in the Debian project. In Debian, we stay member until we die or quit (or very exceptionally, are expelled). The consequence is that it is hard to evaluate how much active members we have. It may also create more crispations about giving membership. We often discussed about how to become a member, but more rarely about the other side of it. I would be interested to read your opinion, especially on the implications that the current practice, or possible changes, have for the project as a whole. Cheers, -- Charles Plessy Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130320022216.gb30...@falafel.plessy.net
Re: To all candidates: which way out of the project ?
Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org (20/03/2013): In Debian, we stay member until we die or quit (or very exceptionally, are expelled). […] Or spotted as being MIA. This might help: http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/MIA Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
