Bug#383316: FretsOnFire
I've decided that I'll try to put FoF in debian without songs. It has an embedded editor so that should be no problem for main. Any suggestions? Miry 2007/2/13, Matthew Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Jason Spiro wrote: >> The explanation Miriam had seems rather odd---if they copyright holders >> agree to licence them the agency which was linked to should have nothing >> to do with it. OTOH, if they are using songs which aren't original by >> them, there could be a problem. > > What explanation? What agency? > Ah, it was sent to -games and not the bug: In a previous mail: """ Oh, and about the songs used in the game, I'm afraid we can't give those up for redistribution due to the regulations of the Finnish Composers' Copyright Society ( http://www.teosto.fi/teosto/webpages.nsf/mainpages/etusivu_englanti?opendocument ). We would have to buy a licence from them to allow the songs to be redistributed, even for free-of-charge distribution. In my opinion it's insane, but those are the rules. So I guess the Debian package will have to be made so that it downloads the songs from our webserver upon installation. Would that work okay? """ If the authors licence them for redistribution then teosto should have nothing to do with it, but I'm not au fait with the finer points of Finnish copyright law. Matt -- Matthew Johnson http://www.matthew.ath.cx/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#383316: FretsOnFire
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Jason Spiro wrote: The explanation Miriam had seems rather odd---if they copyright holders agree to licence them the agency which was linked to should have nothing to do with it. OTOH, if they are using songs which aren't original by them, there could be a problem. What explanation? What agency? Ah, it was sent to -games and not the bug: In a previous mail: """ Oh, and about the songs used in the game, I'm afraid we can't give those up for redistribution due to the regulations of the Finnish Composers' Copyright Society (http://www.teosto.fi/teosto/webpages.nsf/mainpages/etusivu_englanti?opendocument). We would have to buy a licence from them to allow the songs to be redistributed, even for free-of-charge distribution. In my opinion it's insane, but those are the rules. So I guess the Debian package will have to be made so that it downloads the songs from our webserver upon installation. Would that work okay? """ If the authors licence them for redistribution then teosto should have nothing to do with it, but I'm not au fait with the finer points of Finnish copyright law. Matt -- Matthew Johnson http://www.matthew.ath.cx/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#383316: FretsOnFire
Hi Matthew, 2007/2/9, Matthew Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What is in the copying.txt is not the CC-by-2.5, it's a summary which doesn't contain all the problematic clauses. There are two options: either upstream wanted what's in the copying.txt, in which case debian-legal recommend asking them to change to expat; or they wanted the actual CC-by-2.5, which is not DFSG-free and we'd need to convince them to use expat, GPL or something similar. Makes sense, though I personally think it'd be simpler for people to understand the game's licensing if they just GPL'ed it all. :) [parts snipped] It's unclear to me why the songs aren't redistributable. Are the copyright holders of the songs also upstream? or are they a third party? Not sure. I think they are either upstream or upstream's friends. The explanation Miriam had seems rather odd---if they copyright holders agree to licence them the agency which was linked to should have nothing to do with it. OTOH, if they are using songs which aren't original by them, there could be a problem. What explanation? What agency? Cheers, Jason -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also provide training and spyware removal services for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. +1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#383316: FretsOnFire
2007/2/12, Miriam Ruiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It's OK for me if you want to take care about that, thanks a lot :) Do you want me to send a message to Sami Kyöstilä CC'ing you and explaining him the situation to open the way? I would appreciate that very much. It would also be helpful if you could forward me your previous emails re. SVG vs. PNG. IMO, I think it's best if we also CC [EMAIL PROTECTED] on all emails to upstream so that people will be able to see what has happened. :-) Cheers, Jason -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also provide training and spyware removal services for homes and businesses. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. +1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#383316: FretsOnFire
--- Jason Spiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > Hi Miriam, > > The various parts of fretsonfire have various licensing issues, as > explained below. (Unfortunately my explanation is pretty long.) Is > it ok if I discuss relicensing with upstream (I will CC the Debian > BTS) or do you prefer to do it? Cheers, --Jason It's OK for me if you want to take care about that, thanks a lot :) Do you want me to send a message to Sami Kyöstilä CC'ing you and explaining him the situation to open the way? Miry __ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#383316: FretsOnFire
Hi Jason, I've also been looking at this, I posted a couple of times to debian-legal for advice. On Fri, 9 Feb 2007, Jason Spiro wrote: I am not sure about the miscellaneous data. I assume the authors wanted to license it under the full Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 license legal code[3] which does not seem to be Debian-free[4]. What is in the copying.txt is not the CC-by-2.5, it's a summary which doesn't contain all the problematic clauses. There are two options: either upstream wanted what's in the copying.txt, in which case debian-legal recommend asking them to change to expat; or they wanted the actual CC-by-2.5, which is not DFSG-free and we'd need to convince them to use expat, GPL or something similar. == What to do about the rest == I propose we politely ask upstream if they could get the license for the songs and miscellaneous data changed to the GPL. This would make things very simple. If not, perhaps they could GPL the tutorial and miscellaneous data, and allow the songs to be freely used and noncommercially distributed by anyone. AFAIK this would allow the main game to get into main, and the songs to get into Debian non-free. It would also allow many other free Unixes to redistribute the game and the songs. The game would probably have to go into contrib in that case since it really depends on the songs; unless we can get a few other songs in the main package and have them as -extras in non-free. I've been asking around about getting some songs done. It's unclear to me why the songs aren't redistributable. Are the copyright holders of the songs also upstream? or are they a third party? If they are upstream, convincing them to relicence them would be good. The explanation Miriam had seems rather odd---if they copyright holders agree to licence them the agency which was linked to should have nothing to do with it. OTOH, if they are using songs which aren't original by them, there could be a problem. Matt -- Matthew Johnson http://www.matthew.ath.cx/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#383316: FretsOnFire
Hi Miriam, The various parts of fretsonfire have various licensing issues, as explained below. (Unfortunately my explanation is pretty long.) Is it ok if I discuss relicensing with upstream (I will CC the Debian BTS) or do you prefer to do it? Cheers, --Jason == The current licensing situation == The fretsonfire licensing info is included in the fretsonfire tarball. There is also a copy on the web.[0] There are three categories of data in fretsonfire: songs, fonts, and miscellaneous data. The songs are non-Free: "Distribution, modification or commercial usage of the songs is not allowed." The font international.ttf is Debian-free. But title.ttf is non-Free[1] And default.ttf is non-Free too[2]. I am not sure about the miscellaneous data. I assume the authors wanted to license it under the full Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 license legal code[3] which does not seem to be Debian-free[4]. == What to do about the non-free fonts == I don't know anything about fonts and Free Software, so I don't know what to propose. Can we get title.ttf relicensed under a Free license? Can we convert the title text into image format? And will things work OK if we substitute another font for default.ttf? == What to do about the rest == I propose we politely ask upstream if they could get the license for the songs and miscellaneous data changed to the GPL. This would make things very simple. If not, perhaps they could GPL the tutorial and miscellaneous data, and allow the songs to be freely used and noncommercially distributed by anyone. AFAIK this would allow the main game to get into main, and the songs to get into Debian non-free. It would also allow many other free Unixes to redistribute the game and the songs. I sincerely hope Debian, Fedora, and others will be able to redistribute the songs, as they are an important part of the game. (Many of the songs on the fansites are very difficult, so it is much easier to learn to play fretsonfire if the official songs are included.) == Footnotes == [0] at http://louhi.kempele.fi/~skyostil/uv/fretsonfire/dist/latest-src/copying.txt [1] Based on text inside the font file itself: /tmp/FretsOnFire/data $ strings title.ttf | grep -C3 created name post7(6V prep created by Astigmatic One Eye 1997 a div. of CAV OP Studios http://www.astigmatic.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mSeaweed Fire AOE [2] Based on text inside the font file itself: tmp/FretsOnFire/data $ strings default.ttf | grep copyright Typeface and data copyright 1996 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved.Seriffic GrungeBoldMicrosoft Georgia BoldSeriffic GrungeVersion 2.05Georgia-BoldGeorgia is a trademark of Microsoft Corporation. registered copyright trademark [3] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/legalcode [4] http://evan.prodromou.name/Debian_Creative_Commons_Workgroup_report -- Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile. I also provide software development services for businesses worldwide. Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed. +1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#383316: FretsOnFire
--- Matthew Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > I've updated the debian/rules to use install -m so that everything is > the right mode and it builds a package without lintian warnings now. I > was looking back over the ITP and it says "Frets On Fire depends on a > library called amanith that is licensed under QPL, > so it's not DFSG-free". The todo/changelog says 'remove dependency on > amanith' though. Does it now not use amanith at all? or could we > use it with amanth and use svgs rather than pngs? Do we want to do this? Upstream removed the dependecy on pyamanith when I asked them. It can use pngs now instead of pngs. I think that the decision is made depending on whether the .png files exist or not. Upstream is really really collaborative :) Miry __ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#383316: FretsOnFire
I've updated the debian/rules to use install -m so that everything is the right mode and it builds a package without lintian warnings now. I was looking back over the ITP and it says "Frets On Fire depends on a library called amanith that is licensed under QPL, so it's not DFSG-free". The todo/changelog says 'remove dependency on amanith' though. Does it now not use amanith at all? or could we use it with amanth and use svgs rather than pngs? Do we want to do this? Matt -- Matthew Johnson http://www.matthew.ath.cx/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#383316: FretsOnFire
On Fri, 2 Feb 2007, Miriam Ruiz wrote: I'm sorry I cannot add it to SVN yet due to some firewall here :( Do you want me to do that? Yes, please! :) Done, packages/trunk/fretsonfire. I've also set the mergeWithUpstream property for svn-buildpackage to do its magic. Please, put me as uploader instead of maintainer, and set the maintainer field to: Maintainer: Debian Games Team done -- Matthew Johnson http://www.matthew.ath.cx/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#383316: FretsOnFire
--- Matthew Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > On Thu, 1 Feb 2007, Miriam Ruiz wrote: > > > I've temporarily placed my current debian/ directory for Frets on Fire at: > > > > http://users.alioth.debian.org/~baby-guest/fretsonfire/debian.tgz > > New one here: http://mjj29.matthew.ath.cx/fretsonfire-debian.tar.gz Great!! I'm having a look at it right now :) > I've updated a bunch of stuff in the debian directory (see the > changelog) and done some general tidying. The only lintian errors left > are that a bunch of data files are install executable, these should be > changed either when creating the orig.tar.gz, or in the install target > by using install -m rather than cp. > > > I'm sorry I cannot add it to SVN yet due to some firewall here :( > > Do you want me to do that? Yes, please! :) Please, put me as uploader instead of maintainer, and set the maintainer field to: Maintainer: Debian Games Team > > To get the orig.tar.gz file, which must be re-created because the code > must be > > fetched from a different .tgz than the data, see the get-orig-function in > > debian/rules. The orig is nearly 30 Mb so I won't upload mine. > > also, upstream's website is currently broken, and some of the links now > go via sourceforge's mirror pages. Aha, I hadn't noticed that. Cool :) > > 5) Once we know which data we'll include, separate package in two: > > fretsonfire/any and fretsonfire-data/all > > Are we going to compile the python files then? it currently works fine > without doing so on mine (as a -all package). I think python-supports adds the needed commands to preinst/postinst/prerm/postrm scripts to compile the .py files to .pyc on install, so I don't need we should worry about that. I wouldn't pack it in a bunch for Debian as upstream does, I don't think there's any need for that. We should just follow Debian's Python policy [1]. Greetings, Miry [1] http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ __ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#383316: FretsOnFire
On Thu, 1 Feb 2007, Miriam Ruiz wrote: I've temporarily placed my current debian/ directory for Frets on Fire at: http://users.alioth.debian.org/~baby-guest/fretsonfire/debian.tgz New one here: http://mjj29.matthew.ath.cx/fretsonfire-debian.tar.gz I've updated a bunch of stuff in the debian directory (see the changelog) and done some general tidying. The only lintian errors left are that a bunch of data files are install executable, these should be changed either when creating the orig.tar.gz, or in the install target by using install -m rather than cp. I'm sorry I cannot add it to SVN yet due to some firewall here :( Do you want me to do that? To get the orig.tar.gz file, which must be re-created because the code must be fetched from a different .tgz than the data, see the get-orig-function in debian/rules. The orig is nearly 30 Mb so I won't upload mine. also, upstream's website is currently broken, and some of the links now go via sourceforge's mirror pages. 5) Once we know which data we'll include, separate package in two: fretsonfire/any and fretsonfire-data/all Are we going to compile the python files then? it currently works fine without doing so on mine (as a -all package). Matt -- Matthew Johnson http://www.matthew.ath.cx/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#383316: FretsOnFire
Hi, I've temporarily placed my current debian/ directory for Frets on Fire at: http://users.alioth.debian.org/~baby-guest/fretsonfire/debian.tgz I'm sorry I cannot add it to SVN yet due to some firewall here :( To get the orig.tar.gz file, which must be re-created because the code must be fetched from a different .tgz than the data, see the get-orig-function in debian/rules. The orig is nearly 30 Mb so I won't upload mine. Things to do: 1) Clarify if license for data is dfsg-free: All data files, except the songs and the font files mentioned above, are licensed under the following license: Creative Commons Deed Attribution 2.5 You are free: * to copy, distribute, display, and perform the work * to make derivative works * to make commercial use of the work Under the following conditions: * Attribution. You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor. For any reuse or distribution, you must make clear to others the license terms of this work. Any of these conditions can be waived if you get permission from the copyright holder. 2) Replace fonts with links to free ones, adding the proper packages to dependencies: * Font data/title.ttf copyright by Astigmatic One Eye. * Font data/default.ttf copyright by 1001 Free Fonts. * Font data/international.ttf Bitstream Vera font license described below. 3) Remove songs, and replace song for the tutorial with a dfsg one. 4) Check for aditional copyright notices in the code and add them to debian/copyright: Note that some source files derived from other sources might have differing licenses. 5) Once we know which data we'll include, separate package in two: fretsonfire/any and fretsonfire-data/all I hope I haven't forgotten anything important. Feedback is welcome :) Any ideas? Greetings, Miry __ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
