Re: Patch for Makefile.common [Was: Re: New page for devel/website]
On Tue, Aug 24, 2004 at 10:57:57PM +0200, Tobias Toedter wrote: > Thanks for your detailed analysis on the matter. Maybe I was a bit unclear > in my previous message. What I meant was that the patch should fix newly > generated files. This is not possible, old pages may get rebuild for many reasons (like a change under english/template/debian), There is no smooth transition. And if nobody tries to generate XHTML files, bugs in wml and mp4h won't get caught. So the best solution is to try your patch on a test machine, and see how it works. I forgot the last step in my previous post: if everything runs fine, one has also to check generated XHTML files with various browsers to check how they are rendered. Denis
Re: Patch for Makefile.common [Was: Re: New page for devel/website]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 24 August 2004 22:19, Denis Barbier wrote: > This is not enough: > 1. DOCTYPE has to be changed and all files rebuild > 2. many source files have to be modified in order to be processed > (basically they have to be XHTML compliant) > 3. generated files have to be checked by a validator to ensure that > files are XHTML compliant > 4. contents of generated files have to be checked, displayed text > should be identical to HTML ones > 5. this will trigger bugs in wml and/or mp4h which have to be fixed > 6. fixed packages have to be installed on www-master Thanks for your detailed analysis on the matter. Maybe I was a bit unclear in my previous message. What I meant was that the patch should fix newly generated files. Of course I'm aware that there are much more changes to be done to get the website XHTML compliant. However, if you think it would be too early to apply the proposed patch, I certainly won't insist on it. You are much more experienced with wml than I am ... ;-) > IMO steps 1-5 should be performed by people interested in this > migration (on test machines, normally changes required in step 2 can > be committed because they should not break current processing), then > admins will be asked to install fixed packages and only then such a > patch could be applied. Well, I am interested in the migration. I agree that the changes in step 2 should not break anything, but prepare the sources to comply to XHTML. I guess I'll start by reviewing the existent pages and check them for XHTML comliance. Cheers, - -- Tobias In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, "Let there be Light." And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBK6vVCqqEJ0Fs8twRAqspAJ9CGmv3NjgSMuouwCxQH2Lkw5JrTQCfUr50 6pAFw2SPeT2iLR9xk5qbrD8= =NWIv -END PGP SIGNATURE-
removal
I would like to remove your product from my computer, thank you edward
Re: Patch for Makefile.common [Was: Re: New page for devel/website]
On Tue, Aug 24, 2004 at 09:41:07PM +0200, Tobias Toedter wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tuesday 24 August 2004 20:36, Luk Claes wrote: > > I think it's a good idea to put such a page on the site. > > > > But I also think we maybe need updated validate and tidy scripts? They > > would ease the conversion and maintenance. > > Well, I agree in principle. However, I don't think it would be a good idea > to check for XHTML compliance right now, because poor Alfie (who's running > the scripts in a cron job) would be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of > errors. > > I guess we should concentrate on fixing most of the outstanding issues > before switching the scripts. For example, wml is currently "optimizing" > the HTML code by removing the closing slash in e.g. , thus printing > . > > I think this should be fixed by applying the following patch to > Makefile.common. Could someone please review this? Note that the expansion > level of 3082 is what I concluded from the wml docs; I don't know whether > Debian uses the default configuration of mp4h for the generation of the web > pages. This is not enough: 1. DOCTYPE has to be changed and all files rebuild 2. many source files have to be modified in order to be processed (basically they have to be XHTML compliant) 3. generated files have to be checked by a validator to ensure that files are XHTML compliant 4. contents of generated files have to be checked, displayed text should be identical to HTML ones 5. this will trigger bugs in wml and/or mp4h which have to be fixed 6. fixed packages have to be installed on www-master IMO steps 1-5 should be performed by people interested in this migration (on test machines, normally changes required in step 2 can be committed because they should not break current processing), then admins will be asked to install fixed packages and only then such a patch could be applied. Denis
Patch for Makefile.common [Was: Re: New page for devel/website]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 24 August 2004 20:36, Luk Claes wrote: > I think it's a good idea to put such a page on the site. > > But I also think we maybe need updated validate and tidy scripts? They > would ease the conversion and maintenance. Well, I agree in principle. However, I don't think it would be a good idea to check for XHTML compliance right now, because poor Alfie (who's running the scripts in a cron job) would be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of errors. I guess we should concentrate on fixing most of the outstanding issues before switching the scripts. For example, wml is currently "optimizing" the HTML code by removing the closing slash in e.g. , thus printing . I think this should be fixed by applying the following patch to Makefile.common. Could someone please review this? Note that the expansion level of 3082 is what I concluded from the wml docs; I don't know whether Debian uses the default configuration of mp4h for the generation of the web pages. Index: Makefile.common === RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/Makefile.common,v retrieving revision 1.83 diff -u -r1.83 Makefile.common - --- Makefile.common 25 May 2004 21:41:27 - 1.83 +++ Makefile.common 24 Aug 2004 19:25:37 - @@ -20,7 +20,7 @@ endif LANGUAGECAP = $(shell echo $(LANGUAGE) | tr "a-z" "A-Z") - -WMLOPTIONS := -q -D CUR_YEAR=$(CUR_YEAR) +WMLOPTIONS := -q -D CUR_YEAR=$(CUR_YEAR) --passoption=2,--expansion=3082 WMLOUTFILE = $(@F) WMLPROLOG := WMLEPILOG := Cheers, - -- Tobias In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, "Let there be Light." And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD4DBQFBK5nTCqqEJ0Fs8twRAkceAJ9CZoxPyxBJSOJ8ZnN+pCwpZxikewCY8TvK pGpoEHzXthDwKfPQJfQCVA== =fb22 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: New page for devel/website
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tobias Toedter wrote: | the long-term goal for the Debian website is to comply to the XHTML | standard. I thought that maybe it could be a good idea to create a page on | which the most common mistakes/pitfalls etc. are listed when writing XHTML. I think it's a good idea to put such a page on the site. But I also think we maybe need updated validate and tidy scripts? They would ease the conversion and maintenance. Cheers Luk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBK4qR5UTeB5t8Mo0RAm8AAJ9AYoUn8p0206W+CpfDWMR/tSPFLACgpu3d iobrddnx7D1fEyNRsfz1sSI= =95v/ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Some spelling corrections
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 24 August 2004 19:07, Florian Ernst wrote: > On Tue, Aug 24, 2004 at 05:58:10PM +0200, Tobias Toedter wrote: > > Urgs. I'd say you definitely need write access to the webwml > > repository. > > Depends. Most of my automatic and semi-automatic checking of the > German pages is done now, so I don't expect to send in any huge > patches in the future. But I'm interested in keeping the German pages > up to date, and I could do some new translations, even though most of > the work is already done. Well, there's always work to do. I'd be happy to see you join the German team. > Anyways, as I'd personally like to leave corrections of the English > pages to those who speak this language natively (this patch being an > exception), write access should at most extend to the German pages. The webwml repository is not limited to a certain language. You'll get write access to all available languages. It's up to you whether you want to limit yourself to editing only German pages, but there are some cases in which it would be good to have the full checkout of the repository (e.g. fixing spelling mistakes in the English files). > BTW, Jens Seidel just recently told me he wouldn't deny me write > access, and Gerfried 'alfie' Fuchs told me he'd speak up once I'm > ready. Well, I believe I'm ready. I fully agree on that. Cheers, - -- Tobias In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, "Let there be Light." And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBK4KiCqqEJ0Fs8twRAo9fAJsGetVKnK4vTLS9ruxe6MO59riabQCfZ1V6 4aWAs7Ghax72A7uDAPTZ/bw= =EmB5 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Some spelling corrections
Hello! On Tue, Aug 24, 2004 at 05:58:10PM +0200, Tobias Toedter wrote: > Urgs. I'd say you definitely need write access to the webwml repository. Depends. Most of my automatic and semi-automatic checking of the German pages is done now, so I don't expect to send in any huge patches in the future. But I'm interested in keeping the German pages up to date, and I could do some new translations, even though most of the work is already done. Anyways, as I'd personally like to leave corrections of the English pages to those who speak this language natively (this patch being an exception), write access should at most extend to the German pages. BTW, Jens Seidel just recently told me he wouldn't deny me write access, and Gerfried 'alfie' Fuchs told me he'd speak up once I'm ready. Well, I believe I'm ready. > Note: I discovered a typo in "News/1998/19981101b.wml" which slipped > through. It should be "language" instead of "langauge". Thanks. Just as we've recently seen it looks like we'll always have work to do, no matter how many typos are corrected... ;) Cheers, Flo PS: Not CCing any of the people mentioned in this mail, I believe they both don't need a CC. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: New page for devel/website
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 24 August 2004 18:34, Mike Hommey wrote: > The wording sounds unclear to me in some of the notes, and some > issues are missing, as well Could you please elaborate on that? What's missing, what's unclear to you? I'm not a native speaker, so if you have some rewordings, I'd appreciate that. > (but maybe don't need to be adressed, i > don't know how HTML is coded in all debian pages). Sure, I (intentionally) left some parts out. I didn't write about the proper document-type and some information that have to be present in the section, simply because that's normally managed by the templates. As an editor, you don't have to take care of header data. Also I didn't mention that the HTML-code has to be well-formed (eg. important instead of important), because this has been invalid in HTML 4.01 as well. Do you think that those information should be included as well? > I suggest you get some inspiration in http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#diffs > ;) :-) Well, that document is already included as a link -- although not with the anchor specified. Cheers, - -- Tobias In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, "Let there be Light." And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBK3KOCqqEJ0Fs8twRAuPkAJ46gayep5SEyvB8ZBcw+ScNWU5vLgCfTUlB sJm/p61kps6nShfXAtFNNoI= =8zC9 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: New page for devel/website
On Tue, Aug 24, 2004 at 05:41:34PM +0200, Tobias Toedter wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > the long-term goal for the Debian website is to comply to the XHTML > standard. I thought that maybe it could be a good idea to create a page on > which the most common mistakes/pitfalls etc. are listed when writing XHTML. > > This document is intended as a short reference only. If someone wants to > have a look at the whole standard, there are of course appropriate links to > the W3C. > > I also suggest to add a link to this new page in two locations, namely > index.wml and desc.wml. Please see the attached diff for details. The > second attached file contains the wml-code for the proposed new page, which > should probably be called proper_xhtml.wml (or the like). > > I'd like to hear some thoughts before committing. The wording sounds unclear to me in some of the notes, and some issues are missing, as well (but maybe don't need to be adressed, i don't know how HTML is coded in all debian pages). I suggest you get some inspiration in http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#diffs ;) Cheers, Mike
Re: Some spelling corrections
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 21 August 2004 13:22, Florian Ernst wrote: > OK, I guess I should have thought about the size of the attachment > (160K) before sending my original message. Urgs. I'd say you definitely need write access to the webwml repository. Concerning your original message: I'm not a native speaker either, but most of your fixes look pretty straightforward to me. If no one else volunteers (Matt?), I'd start with this job. Note: I discovered a typo in "News/1998/19981101b.wml" which slipped through. It should be "language" instead of "langauge". Cheers, - -- Tobias In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, "Let there be Light." And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBK2WSCqqEJ0Fs8twRAu6bAKCip6FP6LKxTr4kOt+D8Z0qh0mHzwCcCgir 9eZXhnz6Cun3vdSG/L0ryJs= =J4cv -END PGP SIGNATURE-
New page for devel/website
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, the long-term goal for the Debian website is to comply to the XHTML standard. I thought that maybe it could be a good idea to create a page on which the most common mistakes/pitfalls etc. are listed when writing XHTML. This document is intended as a short reference only. If someone wants to have a look at the whole standard, there are of course appropriate links to the W3C. I also suggest to add a link to this new page in two locations, namely index.wml and desc.wml. Please see the attached diff for details. The second attached file contains the wml-code for the proposed new page, which should probably be called proper_xhtml.wml (or the like). I'd like to hear some thoughts before committing. Cheers, - -- Tobias In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, "Let there be Light." And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBK2GuCqqEJ0Fs8twRAhgCAJ9dt+xo+aVRjPT+HQZKkZIEtqOgsQCfUZEh 0YKOLzlXXI4Oybzc8Q5+GKw= =7ZVI -END PGP SIGNATURE- Index: desc.wml === RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/english/devel/website/desc.wml,v retrieving revision 1.24 diff -b -u -r1.24 desc.wml --- desc.wml 10 May 2004 15:22:53 - 1.24 +++ desc.wml 24 Aug 2004 15:27:42 - @@ -58,7 +58,8 @@ to move on to http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/";>XHTML, however, so all web editors are strongly encouraged to write the HTML tags in lowercase, place ending tags where appropriate, etc., in order to make the transition -as smooth as possible. +as smooth as possible. You're invited to have a look at a more complete +overview of XHTML 1.0. Anyone who is working on a lot of pages should install WML so they can test to make sure the result is what they want. If you are running Debian, Index: index.wml === RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/english/devel/website/index.wml,v retrieving revision 1.14 diff -b -u -r1.14 index.wml --- index.wml 19 May 2003 12:30:31 - 1.14 +++ index.wml 24 Aug 2004 15:27:42 - @@ -24,6 +24,7 @@ how to use CVS how to use WML + how to write proper XHTML the to-do list translating pages #use wml::debian::template title="How to write proper XHTML" #use wml::debian::toc # $Id$ General information Our web pages currently comply to the http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/";>HTML 4.01 Transitional standard. We intend to move on to http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/";>XHTML, however, so all web editors are strongly encouraged to closely follow the guidelines below. All tags and attributes have to be lowercase In XHTML, it's not allowed to use . You must instead write . Of course, it's still possible to use mixed-case for the values of an attribute, e.g. . Example for HTML 4.01:Example for XHTML:
Empty tags must be closed There are some tags in HTML which can be empty, i.e. they have no content between the opening and closing tag. Examples include
,
, , and. When using those tags, you must add a slash to the end of the tag, namely immediately before the ">". In order to not confuse older browsers, it's sensible to add a space before the trailing slash. For a line break, you should therefore use
. Example for HTML 4.01:Example for XHTML:
,
,