Re: Website Designs

[Sam Hocevar]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2007, Manoj Srivastava wrote:

> Ah.  If this is just about adding bling, and not about things
>  like removing security advisories from the top page to help lambda
>  users, then my interest in this efforts fade.  Please ignore the noise,
>  then.  I would be interested in a functional improvement to the
>  website, but am indifferent to subjective aesthetics.

   Now I feel like I drew you away, which wasn't the intention at all, I
was answering your concerns about http://wiki.debian.org/WebsiteLayout
but there are also discussions about both the site contents and its
organisation on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWebsiteDiscussion and on
this list which seem to be exactly what you wish to get involved into.

Regards,
Sam.
-- 
echo "creationism" | tr -d "holy godly goal"


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Re: Website Designs

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:00:53 +0200, Sam Hocevar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

>As far as I am concerned, looking prettier is exactly what I'd like
> to be achieved, nothing more. Please consider the layout change page a
> way to achieve a unified, more appealing website.

>I do not believe there is a priority conflict, since changing the
> layout is almost orthogonal to reorganising the website. They can be
> separate projects. In fact, the former hardly qualifies as a rewrite,
> since changing the layout could be done by only changing the CSS.

Ah.  If this is just about adding bling, and not about things
 like removing security advisories from the top page to help lambda
 users, then my interest in this efforts fade.  Please ignore the noise,
 then.  I would be interested in a functional improvement to the
 website, but am indifferent to subjective aesthetics.

manoj
-- 
A certain amount of opposition is a help, not a hindrance. Kites rise
against the wind, not with it.
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
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Re: Website Designs

[Sam Hocevar]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2007, Manoj Srivastava wrote:

>Merely lists which web pages are in scope -- but nothing of the
>  audience. It also hand waves at the usual goodies: unified, accessible,
>  no javascript or flash, etc.  There is nothing concrete, or anything of
>  any real substance here, when it comes to real goals or a target
>  audience. 
> 
> [...]
> 
> So, since my telepathy powers are obviously on the blink, can
>  you tell me what the goals of the rewrite (apart from the 3 foot
>  buzzwords of accessibility, browser independence, restrict javascript)
>  are? What are we trying to achieve (well, apart from look prettier, and
>  perhaps reduce information presented [not sure about the last one]).

   As far as I am concerned, looking prettier is exactly what I'd like
to be achieved, nothing more. Please consider the layout change page a
way to achieve a unified, more appealing website.

   I do not believe there is a priority conflict, since changing the
layout is almost orthogonal to reorganising the website. They can be
separate projects. In fact, the former hardly qualifies as a rewrite,
since changing the layout could be done by only changing the CSS.

Regards,
-- 
Sam.


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Re: Website Designs

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:25:40 +0200, Gerfried Fuchs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> * Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-04-21 18:35]:
>> For example, I really dislike that when I hit the mailing list
>> archive link, instead of being shown the archives based on
>> list/year/month directly, I am asked whether I want a developer
>> mailing list or a user list.  The additional level of access is
>> irritating.

>  You forget that it was like that before, and it was quite irritating
> with respect to the sheer amount of lists and archives on the page.
> It just didn't scale and wasn't useable.

The answer, I felt, was to to have a table of contents at the
 top of the page, which liked further down the page to the monthly
 archives.  A simple list of mailing lists,  perhaps subdivided into
 topics, rather than adding yet another page load, would be less
 irritating for me.

However, this is a minor issue, I am not vastly irritated by the
 current solution.

manoj
-- 
No house is childproofed unless the little darlings are in
straitjackets.
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
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Re: Website Designs

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:51:26 +0200, Gerfried Fuchs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> * Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-04-26 00:10]:
>> So, since my telepathy powers are obviously on the blink, can you
>> tell me what the goals of the rewrite (apart from the 3 foot
>> buzzwords of accessibility, browser independence, restrict
>> javascript) are?

>  Ah, the usual snappy Manoj as we like him ...

Hey, I started out politely enough.  I did get a little snappish
 when I felt I was being given a run around.

>> What are we trying to achieve (well, apart from look prettier, and
>> perhaps reduce information presented [not sure about the last
one> ).

>  Can I be honest?  That would be quite a lot achieved, because that
> didn't happen over the last years at all and was regularly complained
> about, if you have followed the list not only recently.

I care far more about function than about someones idea of what
 is pretty.  I find the Debian site pleasantly uncluttered, and, for the
 most part, highly functional (though improving navigation would be a
 good thing.

>> Frankly, function is not something I have seen discussed -- just
>> bling.

>  So it's a wiki - feel free to add your sentimentals if you think they
> belong there.

sentimentals?

I asked the people involved in this redesign what use cases they
 are trying to improve, who the target audience is,  and what the goals
 are of this effort.

When one embarks on such an effort, and someone asks what the
 goals are, telling the person seeking information that they can make up
 their own goals and add it to the wiki is not really an optimal
 response.

And, probably, most people won't like it if I went ahead and
 defined the goals of the redesign, anyway.

manoj
-- 
The lion and the calf shall lie down together but the calf won't get
much sleep. Woody Allen
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Re: Website Designs

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:03:20 +0200, Gerfried Fuchs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> * Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-04-26 08:14]:
>> If accessibility is a goal, how are you certain we are not meeting
>> it? The web site has no javascript I can discern, it is localized in
>> my language, it uses no flash, it is accessible y braille terminals.
>> Have we not already met the goals, then?

>  I'm sure you have heard it somewhere before already, but: "There's
> always room for improvement."  "If you reach your goal you are dead."


>> If there are parts of the goals that are not met, can you point me to
>> concrete shortcomings? And why can't just those shortcomings be
>> answered, rather than a redesign from the ground up?

>  If there wouldn't be any shortcomings then how would you explain the
> regular mails about people getting lost in the links?  About not
> finding what they are looking for?  Like, "Getting Debian" sounds poor
> to me, and when you actually follow that page you get to a page where
> you can't get Debian but rather have a longish explenation about the
> different approaches, and when you decided you just want to download
> the damn thing and click you are again at the next hop with longish
> explenations about netinst, jigdo and stuff.

Thanks. This is indeed a concrete step -- making it easier to
 access the ISO and jigdo images, and perhaps a _short_ explanation of
 the benefit of the latter. I see it more as  fixing a bug, rather than
 something that needs a redesign of the site with mockups (the
 navigation can be fixed without really doing a full redesign).

>> Does anyone have _any_ idea what the goals of the redesign are?

>  Improvement of navigation is definitely one that I hope to see in it.
> And with some design tricks this can be quite easily and especially
> effective be enhanced.  Of course, it might not be easily enhanced for
> every accessibility needing person, but that doesn't mean we can't do
> things for a lot (as long as we don't make it worse for the others).

I agree with fixing issues with site navigation.  I would like
 to help in that.

>> this raises concerns that the whole effort is doomed to failure --

>  Right, everything can fail.  And quite a lot things do.  And did in
> history.  That doesn't mean that _trying_ to put some effort in is a
> failure, rather the contrary.  Like history showed.

You elided the bit about where not knowing the target audience
 is why I thought it would fail.

One of the initial ideas thrown about was to optimize the site
 for the "lambda user".  While not a goal I agree with, at least there
 the target audience was better defined

manoj
-- 
It is more rational to sacrifice one life than six. Spock, "The Galileo
Seven", stardate 2822.3
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
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Re: Improvements of the website

[Joseph Neal]

> MJ Ray schrieb:
> > Bastian Venthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...]
> >
> >>  * I don't believe we should favor XML(-ish stuff) above simplified
> >> markup when the target audience are humans. XML is good for many things
> >> but definitely not for being edited by the casual user. [...]
> >
> > We have good tools for editing XML, which are much better than
> > the tools we have for editing non-TextFormattingRules wiki texts.
>
> The point is: All you need to edit wiki syntax effectively is a plain
> text field (and optionally an inline spell checker). Really, wiki syntax
> is that easy. In contrast to XML where you suddenly need "good tools" in
> order to edit effectively.

I'm too lazy to set up a real MUA to make sure this is sent properly given the 
fact that I'm responding from the web archives so I'm also sending it 
privately in case any of this is worth repeating.

Txt2tags can output moinmoin markup allowing for authoring offline or outside 
of X. Use that and translate plain text files. 

http://txt2tags.sourceforge.net/

Recent versions of moinmoin have a limited WYSIWYG editor.   It will also 
reproduce formatting generated by copying and pasting documents from 
microsoft word.  If the debian wiki is still using the moinmoin 1.3 packages 
from sarge, which netcraft has me suspecting, it's prehistoric.  Judgments on 
moinmoin's suitability as a platform should not be made on the basis of 
experience with those packages alone.


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Re: Number of packages on front page

[Tommi Vainikainen]

On 2007-04-26T17:20:59+0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> * Tobias Toedter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-04-23 12:48]:
>> Shouldn't we just replace the current value with e.g. 18,700? It's not
>> updated anyway, it's hardcoded in english/releases/info.
>
> Sounds reasonable to me, though I'm not the one to make that call.
> Alfie

Here is a way to translators replace the value on the fly. Please all
remember that we have full programming language to use thanks to WML:

Instead of writing , just write

<:= -  % 100 :>

and you will get 18700 instead of the current exact number, and when
the value changes, you will get the updated value rounded.

-- 
Tommi Vainikainen


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Re: Number of packages on front page

[Eugeniy Meshcheryakov]

23 квітня 2007 о 10:47 +0200 Wojciech Zareba написав(-ла):
> I have the same problem in Polish (becouse 18733 pakiety, but 18735 
> pakietów). It would be solved by Perl script, I think, but as variable...
> 
Ok, I did that with Ukrainian translation.

-- 
Eugeniy Meshcheryakov


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Re: Inconsistency on translated pages links.

[Tommi Vainikainen]

On 2007-04-23T07:55:23+0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I was browsing through the site and noticed that even after i had changed to
> the spanish version, every time i clicked on a link it would take to the
> english version of the page.

That is because your have such settings in your web browser which
requests primarly english pages.

Please read following page: http://www.de.debian.org/intro/cn >

-- 
Tommi Vainikainen


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Debian CD vendors list

[Federico J. Fernández]

Hi Debian people!

We would like to be added to the Debian CD vendors list. We're a small
open source group in Argentina triyng to spread the voice about
free/opensource software in Latin America.  We think that selling
Debian CDs to the community is a positive action in that way. We'll be
glad of being part of the list.


Here are the details:

Vendor Name: openIdeas
URL of Vendor: http://www.openideas.com.ar
Whether or not you donate some of the sale to Debian: no
Type of CDs sold (see at the top of the main page for details):
Official Debian CD
Country: Argentina
Do you ship orders overseas ("yes", "no", "some areas" or "within
Europe"): somes areas
URL of a web page that has information about your Debian CDs:
http://www.openideas.com.ar/debian-cds.html
Email address for sales enquiries: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What architectures your CDs are for: i386, amd64, ia64


Feel free to contact us if you need other details.

Thanks.

Bye!

--
Federico J. Fernandez
openIDEAS
http://www.openideas.com.ar


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Re: Website Designs

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-04-21 18:35]:
> For example, I really dislike that when I hit the mailing list
>  archive link, instead of being shown the archives based on
>  list/year/month directly, I am asked whether I want a developer mailing
>  list or a user list.  The additional level of access is irritating.

 You forget that it was like that before, and it was quite irritating
with respect to the sheer amount of lists and archives on the page.  It
just didn't scale and wasn't useable.

 So long,
Alfie
-- 
Nobody knows what it's like to be the bad man,
to be the sad man, behind blue eyes.
  -- Limp Bizkit, "Behind Blue Eyes"


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Re: Improvements of the website

[Alexander Schmehl]

Hi!

* Gerfried Fuchs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070426 15:33]:

> >>* I don't believe we should favor XML(-ish stuff) above simplified
> >> markup when the target audience are humans. XML is good for many things
> >> but definitely not for being edited by the casual user. BTW there are
> > XML is at least well structured.
>  But much more stricter with respect to tag closing, tag casing, value
> quoting and similar things - and cleaning up after translators who
> fumbled yet again with such things is quite a mess already now.  It
> won't get better if you switch to XML.

Hmmm... while we are considering switching to an other version control
system:  Wouldn't it be possible to create some kind of "pre comitt
hook", which test, if the comitted site still builds?

Just an idea.

Yours sincerely,
  Alexander


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Re: Number of packages on front page

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Tobias Toedter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-04-23 12:48]:
> On Sunday 22 April 2007 17:52, Jens Seidel wrote:
>> In the last time I always wondered whether this refers to binary or
>> source packages. I know I could now parse "Packages" files and check but
> 
> Hm, I just wondered what we actually mean with that sentence. "Over 18733 
> packages"? How many are there? 18734? Or 25711?

 It is written like that because the exact number differs from
architecture to architecture.  AFAIK it's the lowest number from all the
different archs.

> Shouldn't we just replace the current value with e.g. 18,700? It's not 
> updated anyway, it's hardcoded in english/releases/info.

 Sounds reasonable to me, though I'm not the one to make that call.
Alfie
-- 
Immerhin meint die Filmförderungsanstalt, im Jahr 2002 seien 59 Millionen
CD-Rohlinge von 5,9 Millionen Nutzern mit Filmen bespielt worden, im
Durchschnitt also zwölf Rohlinge pro Anwender.
-- 


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Re: links from packages.debian.org

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Luca Brivio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-04-21 15:50]:
> the page at http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages (that is, 
> packages.debian.org) doesn't point to even existing 
> http://packages.debian.org/experimental/, and /oldstable/
> (while does to /stable/, /testing/, and /unstable/).
> 
> Is this intentional, and does make sense?

 It's intentional: oldstable is encouraged to be upgraded and securty
support will eventually run out in about a year, and experimental is
like the name says, quite experimental.  The extra effort needed to be
able to use experimental should get the people thinking about that it's
not really encouraged and that they might be on their own (to contact
the package maintainer, maybe) if they stumble into problems.

 So long,
Alfie
-- 
Nachdem es SuSE nun endlich geschafft hat, Linux so sehr zu verunstalten, daß
es schlechter als Windows ist, bootet es nun also sogar schon auf der Hardware
von Microsoft.
 -- realborg zu 


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Re: Address does not work!

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Alexsander Farias <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-04-25 20:58]:
>I've tried to access today, for the first time, the address 
> http://manpages.debian.net/, but the only thing that it showed was "it 
> works". Is that right?

 manpages.debian.net is not an official service from Debian (as can be
seen by debian.NET domain instead of debian.ORG) and thus not run by the
Debian organization.

 As can be seen by the manpages.debian.net TXT record it is under the
administration of Frank Lichtenheld - propably he isn't finished with
setting it up yet...  (Cc'ed Frank so he might be able to add additional
informations)

 So long,
Alfie
-- 
 JAHAH
 <-- junger gott
 bah. ich trottel


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Re: Inconsistency on translated pages links.

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* NAGY Viktor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-04-23 11:09]:
> These constraints are quite strict. Are there any website statistics 
> which prove that it's really worth to maintain website mirrors and give 
> up using server-side dynamic content?

 And what would you want to use server-side dynamic content for?  I
haven't heard of a suggestion yet that made really sense - only the
question if it could be available.  Besides, keep in mind the propable
need for a database backend, the required load performance of all that
and the bigger needs on administration and on checking the additional
used infrastructure for possible security problems.

 So long,
Alfie
-- 
The biggest difference is that now I can hear bass.  I had almost forgotten
that Metallica isn't a teenage girl band.
 -- Lars Wirzenius, 


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Re: Website Designs

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-04-26 08:14]:
> If accessibility is a goal, how are you certain we are not
>  meeting it? The web site has no javascript I can discern, it is
>  localized in my language, it uses no flash, it is accessible y braille
>  terminals.  Have we not already met the goals, then?

 I'm sure you have heard it somewhere before already, but: "There's
always room for improvement."  "If you reach your goal you are dead."

> If there are parts of the goals that are not met, can you point
>  me to concrete shortcomings? And why can't just those shortcomings be
>  answered, rather than a redesign from the ground up?

 If there wouldn't be any shortcomings then how would you explain the
regular mails about people getting lost in the links?  About not finding
what they are looking for?  Like, "Getting Debian" sounds poor to me,
and when you actually follow that page you get to a page where you can't
get Debian but rather have a longish explenation about the different
approaches, and when you decided you just want to download the damn
thing and click you are again at the next hop with longish explenations
about netinst, jigdo and stuff.

> Does anyone have _any_ idea what the goals of the redesign are?

 Improvement of navigation is definitely one that I hope to see in it.
And with some design tricks this can be quite easily and especially
effective be enhanced.  Of course, it might not be easily enhanced for
every accessibility needing person, but that doesn't mean we can't do
things for a lot (as long as we don't make it worse for the others).

>  this raises concerns that the whole effort is doomed to failure --

 Right, everything can fail.  And quite a lot things do.  And did in
history.  That doesn't mean that _trying_ to put some effort in is a
failure, rather the contrary.  Like history showed.

 Stops the mail.
Alfie
-- 
 quit
 ~/quit
-!- wenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] has quit [ircII2.8.2-EPIC3.004 ---
  Bloatware at its finest.]   -- #debian.de


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Re: Website Designs

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-04-26 00:10]:
> So, since my telepathy powers are obviously on the blink, can
>  you tell me what the goals of the rewrite (apart from the 3 foot
>  buzzwords of accessibility, browser independence, restrict javascript)
>  are?

 Ah, the usual snappy Manoj as we like him ...

> What are we trying to achieve (well, apart from look prettier,
>  and perhaps reduce information presented [not sure about the last
>  one]).

 Can I be honest?  That would be quite a lot achieved, because that
didn't happen over the last years at all and was regularly complained
about, if you have followed the list not only recently.

> Frankly, function is not something I have seen discussed -- just
>  bling. 

 So it's a wiki - feel free to add your sentimentals if you think they
belong there.

 So long,
Alfie
-- 
 ist iptables eigentlich nur ein tool zum verhindern von
aussenkonnecti,erungen auf gewissen ports oder ist iptables eine firewall?
 ist ein packet filter
 maxx: also der verhindert pings?   -- #debian.de


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Re: Improvements of the website

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Grégoire Duchêne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-04-22 11:18]:
> You won't educate users, and you cannot force them to read security
> advisories.

 You can't force them to read them, but not giving them the chance to
and show them in that way that it in fact _is_ an important thing is a
wrong approach.  Removing the DSAs from the front page is something that
simply won't happen and a very silly and shortsighted suggestion.

> We have to keep security advisories in the homepage (as I did it in my
> drafts), but IMO we also need to understand that lambda-users don't
> care about it,

 Our target then definitely isn't lambda-users.  Sorry for the
arrogance, but I give a damn about those who don't care about security -
because there are also quite a lot of users out there who _do_ care
about security.

> this is why powerul tools like APT exist

 I have no idea why you think APT is a security tool, but well...

> (and we cannot change their mind, sorry).

 But you want them to change our mind with respect to get them the
chance to know about it?  Think about it, do you want to transform
Debian into a lambda-distribution?

 So long,
Alfie
-- 
After all, it's only money. It's not like it's ones and zeroes.
-- Anthony Towns about donating money


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Re: Improvements of the website

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Jens Seidel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-04-17 12:49]:
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 12:33:43PM +0200, Bastian Venthur wrote:
>>  * I don't believe we should favor XML(-ish stuff) above simplified
>> markup when the target audience are humans. XML is good for many things
>> but definitely not for being edited by the casual user. BTW there are
> 
> XML is at least well structured.

 But much more stricter with respect to tag closing, tag casing, value
quoting and similar things - and cleaning up after translators who
fumbled yet again with such things is quite a mess already now.  It
won't get better if you switch to XML.

 Besides, I haven't heard of _anything_ yet why people would want to
switch to XML and what they think would make it better than WML.  If
switching to XML would lose us powerful features like includes,
scripting facilities, output redirection and most importantly easy usage
for translators it won't get us anywhere.

 I'm still waiting for anyone to argue wrt/ about what it will really
gain us.  And I'm not speaking about some "but XML can be parsed by
everything !!!1!" jerks.  That's no gain, at all, because it won't get
the work done.

 So long,
Alfie
-- 
If you are not fully satisfied with Meta-CVS for any reason, simply change to
your installation directory and type ``rm mcvs*''. Your disk space will be
promptly refunded. No questions asked (unless you use rm -i, of course).
-- 


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Re: Website Designs

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:29:47 +0200, Runa Agate Sandvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
said: 

> On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 12:10:35AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> Merely lists which web pages are in scope -- but nothing of the
>> audience. It also hand waves at the usual goodies: unified,
>> accessible, no javascript or flash, etc.  There is nothing concrete,
>> or anything of any real substance here, when it comes to real goals
>> or a target audience.

> You're free to edit the wiki page yourself if you want to. I would say
> that an accessible website is a concrete goal. What goals do you see
> for the website?

I have no idea what goals people have in mid, which is why I
 asked. That makes me a poor candidate to edit the page and define the
 currently non-existing goals.

Not only are there no clear definitions of goal, what are the
 use cases the new design is supposed to meet that the current one does
 not? Who are the stake holders? 

If accessibility is a goal, how are you certain we are not
 meeting it? The web site has no javascript I can discern, it is
 localized in my language, it uses no flash, it is accessible y braille
 terminals.  Have we not already met the goals, then?

If there are parts of the goals that are not met, can you point
 me to concrete shortcomings? And why can't just those shortcomings be
 answered, rather than a redesign from the ground up?

Frankly, I do not think accesssibility is a goal. Lack of it is
 a bug, and bugs should be fixed.  It is no more of a goal than lack of
 bugs is a goal for a program -- a de3sirable feature, a critical
 characteristic, but not a goal.

Does anyone have _any_ idea what the goals of the redesign are?

>> And who is the target audience?

> Who is the target audience now? :)

I don't think anyone has a handle on this.  And not defining the
 target audience, and dismissing any effort to do so with hand waving
 about "the audience is who the audience is" is precisely the concern I
 raised about the planning going on into the effort.

>> New users?  Current users? Experts? Novices? Developers?  Derivative
>> distributions? Marketing people? Press?

> The website should be accessible for both new and old users. Does it
> need to be made more clear?

Heck, yes. Since the needs of every element of the types of
 target audiences I mentioned above are very different indeed. Worse,
 this raises concerns that the whole effort is doomed to failure --
 which is what happens when the designer does not think that profiling
 the audience is a worthwhile endeavor.  If you have no idea who you are
 designing for, whether it be programs, or websites, the outcome is
 bound to be muddled.

I have seen no use cases for the new sites that are suppose to
 be met by the new design that are not currently met (I have heard
 various people make value judgements about how "ugly" the pages are).
 Is a subjective "ugliness" the only reason for this effort?  No
 function is being considered at all?

manoj
-- 
It is impossible for an optimist to be pleasantly surprised.
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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Re: Website Designs

[Runa Agate Sandvik]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 12:10:35AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>Merely lists which web pages are in scope -- but nothing of the
>  audience. It also hand waves at the usual goodies: unified, accessible,
>  no javascript or flash, etc.  There is nothing concrete, or anything of
>  any real substance here, when it comes to real goals or a target
>  audience. 

You're free to edit the wiki page yourself if you want to. I would say that
an accessible website is a concrete goal. What goals do you see for the
website?

> And who is the target audience?

Who is the target audience now? :)

> New users?  Current users? Experts? Novices? Developers?
>  Derivative distributions? Marketing people? Press?

The website should be accessible for both new and old users. Does it need to
be made more clear?

- Runa


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