Bug#468765: confusing sentence about pride in security support termination announcements

[Filipus Klutiero]

Package: debian-www
Severity: minor

This report is about the same sentence as the one discussed in #468765. I'm 
starting a new report because #468765 was closed (apparently by error) and to 
show the summary below prominently (the first report got long). I also 
propose an alternative solution.

---
Summary

According to http://www.us.debian.org/News/2008/20080229

One year after the release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 alias 'etch' and nearly 
three years after the release of Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 alias 'sarge' the 
security support for the old distribution (3.1 alias 'sarge') is coming to an 
end next month. The Debian project is proud to be able to support its old 
distribution for such a long time and even for one year after a new version 
has been released.

The last sentence is confusing or doubtful.
---
Discussions

Frank Lichtenheld requested to discuss the topic on a mailing list. I started 
by asking the security team whether it was proud of the duration of 
oldstable's security support in 
http://lists.debian.org/debian-security/2008/03/msg9.html

There was no answer from the security team, however Joerg Jaspert in 
http://lists.debian.org/debian-security/2008/03/msg00039.html and Don 
Armstrong in http://lists.debian.org/debian-www/2008/03/msg00096.html each 
indicated more or less clearly that they were proud of it. MJ Ray stated in 
http://lists.debian.org/debian-www/2008/03/msg00101.html that he was not 
proud of it.
---

So it's not clear how proud the project is, but I am not willing to ask 
debian-project since just the discussion on debian-security was awfully noisy 
and time-consuming. As I wrote at the beginning, I consider that being 
useless to users is a good enough reason to remove the sentence. Since the 
discussions suggest that it is also wrong/inaccurate, I still recommend to 
remove it. However, the discussions also showed that several people like the 
sentence, so I'm not sure it will go. Therefore, I now ask to either remove 
the sentence or clarify/fix it.

It's hard to make sense of the sentence, but after looking at it for a minute, 
the most likely meaning IMO is (splitting the sentence in two):

The Debian project is proud to be able to support its stable distribution. The 
Debian project is also proud of being able to support oldstable for one year 
after a new version has been released.

If this isn't the real meaning, please clarify. If it is, please fix it (at 
least removing the first sentence of my rewrite). The rewrite removes 
the "for such a long time". MJ Ray suggested another phrasing which also 
removes it:

The Debian project is proud of its security team volunteers' support
of 3.1 for a year after the release of the next version.

This assumes that the pride expressed comes from the volunteer nature of 
security support. I agree that this is a likely meaning, considering various 
interventions in #468765 and the debian-security thread.



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Re: Bug#468765: # of supported packages (was Re: Is oldstable security support duration something to be proud of?)

[Filipus Klutiero]

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> This sentence specifically talks about the duration of security
> support. Obviously there are other aspects of security support, but
> the sentence doesn't talk about that, and it's not clear that
> Debian's security support quality would be superior to others.

It doesn't matter whether the security support is superior or not, but
whether the Debian Security Team (and by extension, Debian) is proud
of being able to support a stable release for as long as they have.

Frankly, as a Developer, I'm proud that we've once again been able to
maintain a commitment to security given that everyone who is working
on it is a volunteer.

If there are serious numbers of developers and contributors who don't
feel proud about the work that's been done, then they should voice
support for some modification to the text. Until they do, though, it
should not be changed, and I don't believe any further argument is
going to convince those of us who do feel proud that we should feel
ashamed about it.
  
My goal is not to change people's pride level. My goal is to make sure 
that the sentence accurately pictures the project's pride level, and to 
get the sentence changed if it does not.


Now that this is explicit, there is room between "proud" and "ashamed". 
One can also be humble. For example, if you get 75% in an exam where the 
average is 75%, it would be ridiculous to brag about it, but it would be 
equally stupid to feel ashamed about it.


Don Armstrong
  



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Problem processing a wml::debian::news page.

[Charles Plessy]

Hi all,

I created a news page for the Debian-Med project:

http://cvs.debian.org/webwml/english/devel/debian-med/News/2008/20080317.wml?rev=1.1&root=webwml&view=log

and its translation:

http://cvs.debian.org/webwml/french/devel/debian-med/News/2008/20080317.wml?rev=1.1&root=webwml&view=log

Despite being parsed (since their title has been used to generate the
headline in http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med), the html file has
not been created. Is it because I commited the pages after the "release
date"?

I did not find explanations in
http://cvs.debian.org/webwml/english/template/debian/news.wml?rev=1.57&root=webwml&view=auto
If I missed another place, could somebody indicate it to me?

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy
Debian-Med packaging team
Wakō, Saitama, Japan


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Bug#471459: German version of http://www.debian.org/vote/ lists current DPL election as "waitning for sponsors"

[Alexander Schmehl]

Package: www.debian.org
Severity: normal


Hi!

When opening the german version of http://www.debian.org/vote/ I get the
current DPL vote listed as "Wir warten auf Sponsoren" ("waiting for
sponsors").

Beside that "Wir warten auf Sponsoren" is IMHO a bad translation (it's more
like "We wait for sponsors"; I don't think votes can use such personal
style, I would propose "Warten auf Unterstützer" or something similar), it
is the wrong categorie, since its "In Discussion".


Yours sincerely,
  Alexander

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
  APT prefers stable
  APT policy: (500, 'stable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-xen-686
Locale: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] (charmap=ISO-8859-15) (ignored: 
LC_ALL set to [EMAIL PROTECTED])

News RSS

[James Harr]

Could you set up an RSS feed for the news page? Nothing urgent, I just like
to get that stuff in google reader instead of gmail.

kthxbye

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