Re: Automatic update of pages
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007, Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw) wrote: Yes, it is a problem and it also seems a little bit of duplicating contents/efforts. Well, the sense was *not* to duplicate anything. We faced the fact that web translators have problems to translate very specific texts that require specialist knowledge. This is regarded in the DDTP descriptions and that's why we want to reuse these. The Debian Web Site has a very specific way of being built and the translation system has an established set of procedures, adding "untranslated" texts from DDTP in it seems out of context at a first glance. I think the best solution is to keep the pages David would like to create on Alioth for the moment and just link to the pages from www.debian.org. This will probably reduce a lot of trouble and once we settled down with something working we could think about ways to move them to www.debian.org (if this makes sense). Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Automatic update of pages
Il giorno Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:26:42 +0100 (CET) Andreas Tille <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto: > > ... > > I think the best solution is to keep the pages David would like > to create on Alioth for the moment and just link to the pages > from www.debian.org. This will probably reduce a lot of trouble > and once we settled down with something working we could think > about ways to move them to www.debian.org (if this makes sense). This is ok to me. I'm going to implement the thing in our Alioth space. Have a nice day, David -- . ''`. Debian maintainer | http://snipurl.com/qa_page : :' : Linuxer #334216 | http://www.hanskalabs.net/ `. `'`GPG: 1392B174 | http://www.debianizzati.org/ `- 2BAB C625 4E66 E7B8 450A C3E1 E6AA 9017 1392 B174 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Automatic update of pages
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On 23-12-2007 19:20, David Paleino wrote:
> Il giorno Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:08:09 -0200
> "Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto:
>> On 23-12-2007 18:43, David Paleino wrote:
>>> I think I've solved this problem, [...]
>> IMHO, no. Every language copy the English file, translate
>> it and add a header called translation-check, how are you going
>> to update all the languages?
>
> I got an idea about this. I was thinking of getting packages descriptions from
> DDTP files (Translation-). Isn't it possible to do something like
> (writing PHP-style, since I don't know WML):
>
> ...header...
> include ("data/packages.html")
> ?>
> ...footer...
>
> This way, translators should only translate the header and the footer, since
> the "inner data" is already translated from DDTP (or, if not, is in English).
> But probably this might be a problem, since Charles told me that the pages
> _must_ be fully translated. In this case we would have partially-translated
> pages, if all the descriptions on DDTP are not available.
Yes, it is a problem and it also seems a little bit of
duplicating contents/efforts. The Debian Web Site has a very
specific way of being built and the translation system has an
established set of procedures, adding "untranslated" texts
from DDTP in it seems out of context at a first glance.
[...]
>> I don't know exactly what you want to change on the
>> pages so I can't give better hints/tips/info because I don't
>> know exactly the problem is.
>
> Those pages are manually updated. My script would just take the packages from
> the task files I linked before, and update the pages accordingly.
Ok, if we are talking about "colors" and related info,
that can be made with a .data file for all the languages, and
you will only need to commit it (or provide it) in a proper
way. But if it include the description of the translations,
then I think it is more in the line of a new application or
another approach (like links to DDTP).
This seems a new type of problem and I don't think
that the "automatic updates" represent a good solution.
packages.d.o uses DDTP translations, perhaps you need some
sort of "new infrastructure" to provide resources for other
CDDs, in a similar way with what we already discussed for
ddtss.
>> But you have mainly two ways to go: (1) use an external source of data for
>> the changes you want and (2) use an internal (committed to the CVS) source
>> of data.
>
> You're coming to my previous point here: isn't it possible to have an
> "include"
> command in WML (/me is googling for that) to get external HTML / XHTML / WML
> sources? In that case, the only problem would be the write access to CVS for
> the script.
You also have the translation problem. And AFAIK, the
website uses outside meta data but don't use outside text like
(X)HTML/WML, specially because of the structure of statistics
for translations, the "include" still doesn't seem to fit, it
is probably a "hack" but right now, I wouldn't support its
inclusion. :-(
Kind regards,
- --
Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)
"Debian. Freedom to code. Code to freedom!"
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Re: Automatic update of pages
Il giorno Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:08:09 -0200 "Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto: > On 23-12-2007 18:43, David Paleino wrote: > > > > I think I've solved this problem, [...] > > IMHO, no. Every language copy the English file, translate > it and add a header called translation-check, how are you going > to update all the languages? I got an idea about this. I was thinking of getting packages descriptions from DDTP files (Translation-). Isn't it possible to do something like (writing PHP-style, since I don't know WML): ...header... ...footer... This way, translators should only translate the header and the footer, since the "inner data" is already translated from DDTP (or, if not, is in English). But probably this might be a problem, since Charles told me that the pages _must_ be fully translated. In this case we would have partially-translated pages, if all the descriptions on DDTP are not available. > Not only that, but if you do that on gluck we will have webmirrors > out-of-date. And, if this is only "meta data" to be update, specially machine > readable, there is no point in update it _before_ the wwwbuild, let the build > process do it in a consistent way for all languages and allowing all > webmirrors to sync the up-to-date file. This would need patching wwwbuild though. I wanted to take a less "aggressive" approach. > I don't know exactly what you want to change on the > pages so I can't give better hints/tips/info because I don't > know exactly the problem is. Those pages are manually updated. My script would just take the packages from the task files I linked before, and update the pages accordingly. > But you have mainly two ways to go: (1) use an external source of data for > the changes you want and (2) use an internal (committed to the CVS) source > of data. You're coming to my previous point here: isn't it possible to have an "include" command in WML (/me is googling for that) to get external HTML / XHTML / WML sources? In that case, the only problem would be the write access to CVS for the script. > > ... > > Try to avoid mess with the .wml files itself because > it will generate extra work for translators if you commit > such update every hour. It wasn't meant to be run that often ;) > You can learn more about the website infrastructure here: > > http://www.debian.org/devel/website/ I'm going to read it. :) Thank you, David -- . ''`. Debian maintainer | http://snipurl.com/qa_page : :' : Linuxer #334216 | http://www.hanskalabs.net/ `. `'`GPG: 1392B174 | http://www.debianizzati.org/ `- 2BAB C625 4E66 E7B8 450A C3E1 E6AA 9017 1392 B174 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Automatic update of pages
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 23-12-2007 18:43, David Paleino wrote: > Il giorno Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:38:09 -0200 > "Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto: > >> Automatic updates direct in the files would break the >> sync of translation check for other languages and the website >> mirrors. > > I think I've solved this problem, which occurred on our website with SVN > commits, with a little hack. Update the pages into a different directory of > the one that would be shown outside, and copy them over the old ones once the > update is finished. Is that feasible? (Or maybe I didn't understand what you > mean) IMHO, no. Every language copy the English file, translate it and add a header called translation-check, how are you going to update all the languages? Not only that, but if you do that on gluck we will have webmirrors out-of-date. And, if this is only "meta data" to be update, specially machine readable, there is no point in update it _before_ the wwwbuild, let the build process do it in a consistent way for all languages and allowing all webmirrors to sync the up-to-date file. >> In a first look, I can imagine two approaches: >> >> 1) A "status" file with metadata outside the CVS >> >> Similar to the PO statistics, the build script could >> download the "status" from Debian-Med and generate >> the different pages for the different languages at >> build time. >> >> >> 2) A "status" file with metadata inside the CVS >> >> Have a .data file used by the build script but instead >> of being downloaded automatically it would be commited >> to the CVS. > > I can't get what you're meaning here. I'm sorry I don't know > debian-www internals, could you elaborate a bit more? I don't know exactly what you want to change on the pages so I can't give better hints/tips/info because I don't know exactly the problem is. But you have mainly two ways to go: (1) use an external source of data for the changes you want and (2) use an internal (committed to the CVS) source of data. Probably, you will need to tell wwwbuild the information that needs to be update, similar to what is done by the PO statistics: http://www.debian.org/international/l10n/po/ http://www.debian.org/international/l10n/po-debconf/ When the wwwbuild runs, it will check what is needed and will generate the files up-to-date with what you want. The website is build 6 times a day (lessoften runs only once) and you should update what is needed between build time to get your info published. You just need to tell us, or wwwbuild what you want to update. Try to avoid mess with the .wml files itself because it will generate extra work for translators if you commit such update every hour. You can learn more about the website infrastructure here: http://www.debian.org/devel/website/ Kind regards - -- Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw) "Debian. Freedom to code. Code to freedom!" -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHbs45CjAO0JDlykYRAkMSAJwPujOQr8XkkYEAzIy38Q6v+nw8NgCfRL0j CVrutFCFmq5ppLj+AaPxwCo= =qbfy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Automatic update of pages
Il giorno Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:38:09 -0200 "Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto: > Automatic updates direct in the files would break the > sync of translation check for other languages and the website > mirrors. I think I've solved this problem, which occurred on our website with SVN commits, with a little hack. Update the pages into a different directory of the one that would be shown outside, and copy them over the old ones once the update is finished. Is that feasible? (Or maybe I didn't understand what you mean) > In a first look, I can imagine two approaches: > > 1) A "status" file with metadata outside the CVS > > Similar to the PO statistics, the build script could > download the "status" from Debian-Med and generate > the different pages for the different languages at > build time. > > > 2) A "status" file with metadata inside the CVS > > Have a .data file used by the build script but instead > of being downloaded automatically it would be commited > to the CVS. I can't get what you're meaning here. I'm sorry I don't know debian-www internals, could you elaborate a bit more? > Preference for 1 and 2 would depend on whether you want > to have history of the data/metadata. About the updates, it > really doesn't matter how many times the python script would run > because the changes will only appear on the next wwwbuild. > > http://people.debian.org/~faw/tools/wwwbuild-lessoften.html > http://people.debian.org/~faw/tools/wwwbuild-often.html That's ok to me, those pages aren't "mission-critical". > In both cases you are likely to need to patch the build > scripts and much probably get the approval of a webmaster to > commit it. Probably this will be a future feature of every CDD. Debian-Med might be considered a "prototype" for this. Kindly, David -- . ''`. Debian maintainer | http://snipurl.com/qa_page : :' : Linuxer #334216 | http://www.hanskalabs.net/ `. `'`GPG: 1392B174 | http://www.debianizzati.org/ `- 2BAB C625 4E66 E7B8 450A C3E1 E6AA 9017 1392 B174 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Automatic update of pages
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 23-12-2007 18:01, David Paleino wrote: > Hi, > I'm a Debian-Med team member, and I'm working to get some nice features for > our > (and, possibly, also other) CDD. The idea is to have pages like [1] and [2] > automatically updated by a python script, possibly put on our Alioth space (so > that everyone in the team can edit/fix/improve it) or, better, in our SVN > repository, always on Alioth. The script would parse some "task files" (see an > example at [3]). > I've sent a mail to our mailing list (CCed), and one of the guys with write > access to the debian.org space (Charles Plessy > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) made me note that the space is > write-protected [4], so he suggested me to write here. Is there any chance to > achieve what I planned? Any workaround? > [1] http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med/microbio > [2] http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med/record > [3] > http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/cdd/projects/med/trunk/debian-med/tasks/?rev=0&sc=0 > [4] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.medical/2771 Automatic updates direct in the files would break the sync of translation check for other languages and the website mirrors. In a first look, I can imagine two approaches: 1) A "status" file with metadata outside the CVS Similar to the PO statistics, the build script could download the "status" from Debian-Med and generate the different pages for the different languages at build time. 2) A "status" file with metadata inside the CVS Have a .data file used by the build script but instead of being downloaded automatically it would be commited to the CVS. Preference for 1 and 2 would depend on whether you want to have history of the data/metadata. About the updates, it really doesn't matter how many times the python script would run because the changes will only appear on the next wwwbuild. http://people.debian.org/~faw/tools/wwwbuild-lessoften.html http://people.debian.org/~faw/tools/wwwbuild-often.html In both cases you are likely to need to patch the build scripts and much probably get the approval of a webmaster to commit it. Kind regards, - -- Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw) "Debian. Freedom to code. Code to freedom!" -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHbscxCjAO0JDlykYRAmp0AKCqTlcVaxdCPTchHzTy+SLjLy5hJgCgu1xi LACIngD06TkUQzz+grXKVhg= =r1ab -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Automatic update of pages
Hi, I'm a Debian-Med team member, and I'm working to get some nice features for our (and, possibly, also other) CDD. The idea is to have pages like [1] and [2] automatically updated by a python script, possibly put on our Alioth space (so that everyone in the team can edit/fix/improve it) or, better, in our SVN repository, always on Alioth. The script would parse some "task files" (see an example at [3]). I've sent a mail to our mailing list (CCed), and one of the guys with write access to the debian.org space (Charles Plessy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) made me note that the space is write-protected [4], so he suggested me to write here. Is there any chance to achieve what I planned? Any workaround? Thank you (and Merry Christmas), David Paleino Debian-Med Team [1] http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med/microbio [2] http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med/record [3] http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/cdd/projects/med/trunk/debian-med/tasks/?rev=0&sc=0 [4] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.medical/2771 -- . ''`. Debian maintainer | http://snipurl.com/qa_page : :' : Linuxer #334216 | http://www.hanskalabs.net/ `. `'`GPG: 1392B174 | http://www.debianizzati.org/ `- 2BAB C625 4E66 E7B8 450A C3E1 E6AA 9017 1392 B174 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
