Re: [oferk@oren.co.il: debian]

[Ted Cabeen]

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In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Richard Atterer writes:
>On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 10:49:49PM -0500, James A. Treacy wrote:
>> When we first started distributing the iso images, we had a problem
>> with people downloading them when that is not what they wanted. =

>> Thus, the wording above. Also, since bandwidth is donated, we need
>> to be careful that we don't exceed the good will of our sponsors.
>
>Hm, but OTOH currently we're just wasting our sponsors' HD space,
>because the official ISO mirror list is *REALLY* hard to find. (Just
>try and see if you can find it!)

Done.  ;)
http://www.debian.org/mirrors/mirrors_full
(I knew where to find this one since I have a hand in debian.uchicago.edu=
)
or
http://cdimage.debian.org/ftp-mirrors.html
(I guessed this one from the format of the rsync-mirrors filename, which =
is =

easier to find)

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Ted Cabeen   http://www.pobox.com/~secabeen[EMAIL PROTECTED]
e.net =

Check Website or Keyserver for PGP/GPG Key BA0349D2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [oferk@oren.co.il: debian]

[Richard Atterer]

On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 10:49:49PM -0500, James A. Treacy wrote:
> When we first started distributing the iso images, we had a problem
> with people downloading them when that is not what they wanted. 
> Thus, the wording above. Also, since bandwidth is donated, we need
> to be careful that we don't exceed the good will of our sponsors.

Hm, but OTOH currently we're just wasting our sponsors' HD space,
because the official ISO mirror list is *REALLY* hard to find. (Just
try and see if you can find it!)

The *links* should be easy to find. CD mirror admins can always set up
bandwidth throttling if their mirror becomes overloaded...

> With the new (well it's existed for a few years now) set of pages on
> cdimage.d.o that preface the download page maybe the first item
> isn't a concern. The issue of bandwidth should be looked into,
> though, before we make the links more obvious.

But IMNSHO obscuring the links is really the wrong approach! 
Information on a web site should not try to "guide" a visitor because
we "know better" than him; everything should be described so that the
*visitor* can decide what to do and get to the desired information
with the minimum number of clicks. Any "you want to do this and this,
believe me" will annoy a great many visitors.

  Richard

Obligatory plug: 
-- 
  __   _
  |_) /|  Richard Atterer |  CS student at the Technische  |  GnuPG key:
  | \/¯|  http://atterer.net  |  Universität München, Germany  |  0x888354F7
  ¯ ´` ¯

Re: [oferk@oren.co.il: debian]

[Richard Atterer]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 11:30:13AM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 10:49:31PM +0100, Richard Atterer wrote:
> > FWIW, maybe it is not even a good idea to separate the list of CD
> > vendors (on www.d.o) from the rest of the CD information (on
> > cdimage.d.o)? [snip]
> 
> I agree, the two sections about CDs should be together. It would
> probably be best if we had www.debian.org/CD/vendors and
> www.d.o/CD/images and then have http://cdimage.d.o/ redirect to the
> latter.

Agreed, except that I think www.debian.org/CD/ should be an
introductory page like the one I put up at cdimage/~atterer, which
contains links to the other pages.

> This would greatly simplify translations, if anything. The image
> files would stay on cdimage.d.o, of course, just the general
> information HTMLs would be with the rest.

This sounds like a good idea, I quite like it! Having the content
available on cvs.debian.org makes it easily accessible to the various
groups of people who might want to change something (CD creators, boot
floppies team, translators...).

What do you think, Phil?

> Note also that /CD/images doesn't have to match the visual design of
> the rest of www.d.o.

Thanks for saying this :) However, even if it doesn't have the same
design initially, this should certainly be an important goal. Site
design changing "in the middle of a site" is usually not acceptable. 
:-/

Cheers,

  Richard

-- 
  __   _
  |_) /|  Richard Atterer |  CS student at the Technische  |  GnuPG key:
  | \/¯|  http://atterer.net  |  Universität München, Germany  |  0x888354F7
  ¯ ´` ¯

Re: [oferk@oren.co.il: debian]

[peter karlsson]

Josip Rodin:

> (Note also that we can make symlinks /cd, /CDs, /cds etc for those who
> can't remember the exact form :) we do this for /international and /mirror
> already)

Even better would be to have permanent redirects for these (if that's
possible with the mirroring structure we have). Symlink creates distinct
URLs that require extra bandwidth since the recipient don't know that they
are the same.

-- 
\\//
peter - http://www.softwolves.pp.se/

  Statement concerning unsolicited e-mail according to Swedish law:
  http://www.softwolves.pp.se/peter/reklampost.html

Re: [oferk@oren.co.il: debian]

[Josip Rodin]

On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 10:49:31PM +0100, Richard Atterer wrote:
> FWIW, maybe it is not even a good idea to separate the list of CD
> vendors (on www.d.o) from the rest of the CD information (on
> cdimage.d.o)? That may make sense from an organizational point of
> view, but it is less user-friendly. If the vendor list were added to
> the cdimage website, the "Debian on CD" link on
>  could point directly to cdimage.

I agree, the two sections about CDs should be together. It would probably be
best if we had www.debian.org/CD/vendors and www.d.o/CD/images and then have
http://cdimage.d.o/ redirect to the latter. This would greatly simplify
translations, if anything. The image files would stay on cdimage.d.o, of
course, just the general information HTMLs would be with the rest.

Note also that /CD/images doesn't have to match the visual design of the
rest of www.d.o.

(Note also that we can make symlinks /cd, /CDs, /cds etc for those who can't
remember the exact form :) we do this for /international and /mirror already)

-- 
 2. That which causes joy or happiness.

Re: [oferk@oren.co.il: debian]

[James A. Treacy]

On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 10:49:31PM +0100, Richard Atterer wrote:
> 
> To make it easier for CD vendors to provide a high quality
> disk we provide Official CD images for them.
> 
> simply because he's not a vendor. (Even /I/ only followed it after
> searching elsewhere for a long time when I first downloaded Debian
> CDs.) There should be something like
> 
When we first started distributing the iso images, we had a problem with
people downloading them when that is not what they wanted. Thus, the
wording above. Also, since bandwidth is donated, we need to be careful
that we don't exceed the good will of our sponsors.

With the new (well it's existed for a few years now) set of pages on
cdimage.d.o that preface the download page maybe the first item isn't a
concern. The issue of bandwidth should be looked into, though, before
we make the links more obvious.

-- 
James (Jay) Treacy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [oferk@oren.co.il: debian]

[Francesco P. Lovergine]

On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 06:49:50PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> A user who didn't like the cdimage.d.o.
> 

Maybe he should instead try to download the iso of next incoming RH 8...
I do not think it is so easy as he said :) 
Downloading RH 7.2 image is as easy as potato one IMHO.

--
Francesco P. Lovergine

Re: [oferk@oren.co.il: debian]

[Richard Atterer]

On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 06:49:50PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> A user who didn't like the cdimage.d.o.
[snip]

Too true!

I hope the forthcoming cdimage website will solve at least part of the
problem.

However, IMHO there's still a problem with the link to cdimage on
 - an unexperienced user like
the one whose mail you forwarded will certainly not follow a link in
the sentence

To make it easier for CD vendors to provide a high quality
disk we provide Official CD images for them.

simply because he's not a vendor. (Even /I/ only followed it after
searching elsewhere for a long time when I first downloaded Debian
CDs.) There should be something like

If you want to buy Debian on CD, see below. If you want to
download CD images to write to CD-R yourself, see the
cdimage.debian.org site.

FWIW, maybe it is not even a good idea to separate the list of CD
vendors (on www.d.o) from the rest of the CD information (on
cdimage.d.o)? That may make sense from an organizational point of
view, but it is less user-friendly. If the vendor list were added to
the cdimage website, the "Debian on CD" link on
 could point directly to cdimage.

Cheers,

  Richard

PS: I've updated the page design of
 and added a navigation bar that
somewhat resembles the one on www.debian.org. I can't use magenta
because that colour is trademarked in Germany! :)
-- 
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  |_) /|  Richard Atterer |  CS student at the Technische  |  GnuPG key:
  | \/¯|  http://atterer.net  |  Universität München, Germany  |  0x888354F7
  ¯ ´` ¯