Re: Incorrect statements in the release announcement, please fix! (was Re: Release announcement for Etch -- help needed by translators)
Am 2007-04-10 12:03:52, schrieb Josselin Mouette: Le dimanche 08 avril 2007 à 12:53 +0200, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña a écrit : - apt-get is *not* recommended I have just upgraded a few servers, and frankly I would recommend upgrading with apt-get instead of aptitude. As aptitude's own upgrade path is broken, it is proposing insane upgrade scenarii unless you do as described in the release notes - which comes down to basically removing half of your system. Besides, apt-get dist-upgrade worked at once on a machine with a full KDE+GNOME installation, plus some services. Short note: I had to use apt-get since aptitude had installed the WHOLE x.org on my Server which had never seen a X-Window-System. aptitude had tried to install over 300 MByte additional Packages on my server which are definitivly useless. The UPGRADE from Sarge to Etch was all other as funny! Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Incorrect statements in the release announcement, please fix! (was Re: Release announcement for Etch -- help needed by translators)
Le dimanche 08 avril 2007 à 12:53 +0200, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña a écrit : - upgrades are not automatically handled by aptitude in this release, there are some steps users have to take before going 'dist-upgrade'. They should be warned to go to read the Release Notes *before* doing this upgrade - apt-get is *not* recommended I have just upgraded a few servers, and frankly I would recommend upgrading with apt-get instead of aptitude. As aptitude's own upgrade path is broken, it is proposing insane upgrade scenarii unless you do as described in the release notes - which comes down to basically removing half of your system. Besides, apt-get dist-upgrade worked at once on a machine with a full KDE+GNOME installation, plus some services. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile.
Re: Incorrect statements in the release announcement, please fix! (was Re: Release announcement for Etch -- help needed by translators)
On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 12:03:52PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: I have just upgraded a few servers, and frankly I would recommend upgrading with apt-get instead of aptitude. As aptitude's own upgrade path is broken, it is proposing insane upgrade scenarii unless you do as described in the release notes - which comes down to basically removing half of your system. Besides, apt-get dist-upgrade worked at once on a machine with a full KDE+GNOME installation, plus some services. Please read again the Release Notes, it does not suggest removing half of your system and, actually, the path there *prevents* that. If you have information to add, it should be provided as bug reports to the release-notes or upgrade-reports pseudopackage. Regards Javier signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Incorrect statements in the release announcement, please fix! (was Re: Release announcement for Etch -- help needed by translators)
On Sun, Apr 08, 2007 at 12:53:34PM +0200, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - there *is* downtime, a new kernel needs to be installed and that requires a reboot Also note daemons tend to stop in preinst and start in postinst, which, when a lot of packages are upgraded, can be separated by a great amount of time. Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Incorrect statements in the release announcement, please fix! (was Re: Release announcement for Etch -- help needed by translators)
On Sun, Apr 08, 2007 at 12:53:34PM +0200, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: Several things: - upgrades are not automatically handled by aptitude in this release, there are some steps users have to take before going 'dist-upgrade'. They should be warned to go to read the Release Notes *before* doing this upgrade Agreed on that. - apt-get is *not* recommended - there *is* downtime, a new kernel needs to be installed and that requires a reboot Installing a new kernel doesn't *require* a reboot. Depends on whether you like your downtime to be scheduled or unscheduled. ;) - we should not say painlessly here. The upgrade *is* painful for some architectures and users have to be extra careful I dunno, this is a press announcement and compared to what else is out there, the Debian upgrades are still pretty amazingly painless. Maybe I'm biased because of Release Notes editing, but I think that should be ammended. I'm not certain if this went to -release first for review by Release Managers, but it certainly should have gone to (before asking for translations!) Yes, it did get passed by us first (and yes, you're biased, release notes and press releases are two very, very different things ;). Cheers, -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Incorrect statements in the release announcement, please fix! (was Re: Release announcement for Etch -- help needed by translators)
On Sun, Apr 08, 2007 at 04:17:08AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: - there *is* downtime, a new kernel needs to be installed and that requires a reboot Installing a new kernel doesn't *require* a reboot. Depends on whether you like your downtime to be scheduled or unscheduled. ;) Well having it scheduled or unscheduled still makes it a downtime :) We are asking users to reboot after the kernel upgrade (see http://www.debian.org/releases/etch/alpha/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#s4.1.2) which could happen either at the middle or at the end of the upgrade. Maybe we shouldn't? - we should not say painlessly here. The upgrade *is* painful for some architectures and users have to be extra careful I dunno, this is a press announcement and compared to what else is out there, the Debian upgrades are still pretty amazingly painless. I fully agree with this statement. Maybe I'm biased because of Release Notes editing, but I think that should be ammended. I'm not certain if this went to -release first for review by Release Managers, but it certainly should have gone to (before asking for translations!) Yes, it did get passed by us first (and yes, you're biased, release notes and press releases are two very, very different things ;). Well, I believe Release Managers (at least Steve) did review this announcement. In order to prevent problems with translations we might want to leave it as it is now. But, as this paragraph was present in potato's [1], woody's [2] and sarge's [3] (with only a few modifications) and etch's upgrade process is more complicated than those I think we should (in a few days, after release and with all the translations in the website) reword it a little bit to put some more stress in the need to read the Release Notes *before* the upgrade. I'll go bite my teeth somewhere else for the time being Regards Javier PS: Who says Release Notes editing and translating is not stressful? [1] webwml/english/News/2000/2815.wml) [2] webwml/english/News/2002/20020719.wml [3] webwml/english/News/2005/20050606.wml signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Incorrect statements in the release announcement, please fix! (was Re: Release announcement for Etch -- help needed by translators)
On Sun, Apr 08, 2007 at 01:50:58PM +0200, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: On Sun, Apr 08, 2007 at 04:17:08AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: - there *is* downtime, a new kernel needs to be installed and that requires a reboot Installing a new kernel doesn't *require* a reboot. Depends on whether you like your downtime to be scheduled or unscheduled. ;) Well having it scheduled or unscheduled still makes it a downtime :) We are asking users to reboot after the kernel upgrade (see http://www.debian.org/releases/etch/alpha/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#s4.1.2) which could happen either at the middle or at the end of the upgrade. Maybe we shouldn't? No, we *should* recommend a reboot; at the same time, being able to upgrade without having to, say, reboot into an installer to do so is a significant feature for those not at liberty to do forklift upgrades of their servers. PS: Who says Release Notes editing and translating is not stressful? I never did :) -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
