Re: new front page, take 1
Sorry for the delay, this got lost in my enormous TODO list... On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 04:36:49PM -0800, Tor Slettnes wrote: Tor with a Debian block diagram showing the Linux and HURD Tor kernels at the bottom or in the core, with libraries on top, Tor then utilties, GUIs, etc? Josip Sounds interesting. If you provide such a diagram (in PNG Josip or something)... Well, not being a graphic artist, I think this one is somewhat crude - but should give a basic idea: http://www.debian.org/~tor/debiancomponents.png The original GIMP file (editable) can be had from the same place: http://www.debian.org/~tor/debiancomponents.xcf.gz If there is some interest in this concept, I could spend some time trying to improve on the image. Or if someone has graphical skills, all the better. :) Interesting! I think this would be useful... but then, I can guarantee that there will be oodles of people who would bitch because their favorite part of Debian isn't mentioned... -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 1
Hi, http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront/ Thanks for your prototipe, but I am sorry to say I don't like the two columns layout mainly because it splits News headers in two columns, and the same for Security Alerts. Also I don't like loosing the left menu and if this menu is included there will be little space for two columns. As you said users don't read pages, they scan them. So left menu is VERY important. I think this layout is good for developers because boxes are mainly lists of links, but not for the main page as there are different type of contents. Antonio
Re: new front page, take 1
Josip == Josip Rodin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tor == Tor Slettnes wrote: Tor with a Debian block diagram showing the Linux and HURD Tor kernels at the bottom or in the core, with libraries on top, Tor then utilties, GUIs, etc? Josip Sounds interesting. If you provide such a diagram (in PNG Josip or something)... Well, not being a graphic artist, I think this one is somewhat crude - but should give a basic idea: http://www.debian.org/~tor/debiancomponents.png The original GIMP file (editable) can be had from the same place: http://www.debian.org/~tor/debiancomponents.xcf.gz If there is some interest in this concept, I could spend some time trying to improve on the image. Or if someone has graphical skills, all the better. :) -tor -- Får i ulveklær
Re: new front page, take 1
Josip == Josip Rodin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Josip Hi guys, http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront/ Josip /me prepares for the barrage Nice concept. The different mini-pages is one of the things that has made the devel/ page particularly appealing. Still a bit boring and/or busy for a front page, though. I think that perhaps a main feature/section could cover the top/main part of the page - maybe with an illustration or so. For instance, how about retaining the What is Debian? section on top (as it is now), with a Debian block diagram showing the Linux and HURD kernels at the bottom or in the core, with libraries on top, then utilties, GUIs, etc? Or perhaps a screenshot of some Debian-specific feature, say, Gnome-APT? The existing mini-pages would fit nicely below the main feature. The existing quick-links would fit nicely on the left. -tor -- Får i ulveklær
Re: new front page, take 1
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Josip Rodin wrote:
AFAICT the differences in size are rather small. I looked at it in links
80x25 and mozilla 800x600. Can you make a snapshot so I can see if the
picture we're seeing is too different?
http://www.softwolves.pp.se/privat/newfront.png is what I see.
I thought I couldn't make those things h and Helvetica at the same time,
so I didn't try. Are you saying it's possible?
H1 { display: inline; font: Helvetica; background: black; color: #ffd400; }
would probably do the trick.
Though I can't say much about the red parts at the top -- I just left those
intact, and worked on index.wml.
Yes, but since it adds more colours it's a bit messy.
Left to right. How do you read all other web pages? If anything, _this_ can
be assumed...
Since it's two-column, my first assumption is to read the left column and
then the right column (like a newspaper), but then things come out of order.
--
\\//
peter - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: new front page, take 1
And here are my brain-storming ideas: * Reinstate the link bar on the left, using the same mini-page layout[1], but as a tall box extending all the way. * Keep the little boxes with shorter blurbs (those I like), but only have one column of them (takes care of the balancing problem), which re-flows properly to the browser width. Make them link to longer texts with Read more. * Remove the texts in the News and Security alerts boxes; instead make the captions into links to their corresponding pages. * The last box is redundant; put the sitemap in the top navbar (where it belongs) alongside the search. These are two most important pages. * Perhaps we should move the translation links somewhere else, perhaps somewhat like the EU does on their pages, where they mostly are in the top-right corner (which would bring them close to the mirrors, which I like). -- \\// peter - [EMAIL PROTECTED] [1] In reality I hate mini-page layouts, but if that's what people want, well...
Re: new front page, take 1
On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 12:39:29AM -0800, Tor Slettnes wrote: I think that perhaps a main feature/section could cover the top/main part of the page - maybe with an illustration or so. For instance, how about retaining the What is Debian? section on top (as it is now), You know, that's what my initial redesign sketch used, a few years back. It was deemed repugnant because of the color scheme, though it seems that part wasn's such a bad idea after all. Cf. http://joy.gkvk.hr/greeny/ with a Debian block diagram showing the Linux and HURD kernels at the bottom or in the core, with libraries on top, then utilties, GUIs, etc? Sounds interesting. If you provide such a diagram (in PNG or something)... Or perhaps a screenshot of some Debian-specific feature, say, Gnome-APT? Screenshots tend to take up too much space if not shrinked, or look crappy and unappealing if shrinked. Once again, if you can provide a sample... -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 1
On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 12:58:16PM +0100, Peter Karlsson wrote:
AFAICT the differences in size are rather small. I looked at it in links
80x25 and mozilla 800x600. Can you make a snapshot so I can see if the
picture we're seeing is too different?
http://www.softwolves.pp.se/privat/newfront.png is what I see.
I see. The top two boxes only differ a couple of pixels (moz) one line
(links) here.
I thought I couldn't make those things h and Helvetica at the same time,
so I didn't try. Are you saying it's possible?
H1 { display: inline; font: Helvetica; background: black; color: #ffd400; }
would probably do the trick.
Oh, of course.
/me kicks himself, remembering he uses the same thing on his homepage
Which reminds me, I need to bug the admins again (JT?) to change the log
format so we can see useragents. I'm really starting to believe CSS would be
acceptable for the vast majority of viewers, but we should have more
numbers.
Left to right. How do you read all other web pages? If anything, _this_ can
be assumed...
Since it's two-column, my first assumption is to read the left column and
then the right column (like a newspaper), but then things come out of order.
Well, it's not two-column. It's a matrix of boxes, that's why they have the
black outline around them.
--
2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 1
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Peter Karlsson wrote: Left to right. How do you read all other web pages? If anything, _this_ can be assumed... Since it's two-column, my first assumption is to read the left column and then the right column (like a newspaper), but then things come out of order. *Users don't read webpages* They scan them. The proposed format can work not because of the columns, but because there is a big yellow subject heading that's easy to see, and then the stuff in the box obviously goes with it. Remember when I was ranting about putting the /doc pages in more of a list format? I finally remembered the short article that spelled everything out, and gave examples with actual readability testing results. See: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9710a.html Jakob Nielsen - Web Usability :: Donald Knuth - Programming -Jeff --- Jeff Albro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Customer Interaction Consultant Boston, MA
Re: new front page, take 1
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Josip Rodin wrote: http://www.softwolves.pp.se/privat/newfront.png is what I see. I see. The top two boxes only differ a couple of pixels (moz) one line (links) here. I have found that different browsers can interpret cellpadding, cellspacing and border widths differently. If you want a truly consistant layout you can set all those values to zero and use extra cells with a specified pixel width. It's a bit ungainly but it works. -Jeff --- Jeff Albro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Customer Interaction Consultant Boston, MA
Re: new front page, take 1
On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 02:53:45PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: Which reminds me, I need to bug the admins again (JT?) to change the log format so we can see useragents. I'm really starting to believe CSS would be acceptable for the vast majority of viewers, but we should have more numbers. Tell me the change and I'll do it. If you want me to do it, just yell at me and I'll figure it out myself. :) -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: new front page, take 1
On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 12:12:48PM -0500, James A. Treacy wrote: Which reminds me, I need to bug the admins again (JT?) to change the log format so we can see useragents. I'm really starting to believe CSS would be acceptable for the vast majority of viewers, but we should have more numbers. Tell me the change and I'll do it. If you want me to do it, just yell at me and I'll figure it out myself. :) Actually, for testing purposes I tried doing it locally but I can't seem to get it done. I tried using 'CustomLog /var/log/apache/access.log combined' in /etc/apache/httpd.conf but it didn't change the log file. After restarting Apache, of course. But it's somewhere along those lines... -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 1
On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 12:09:01PM -0500, Jeffrey C. Albro wrote: http://www.softwolves.pp.se/privat/newfront.png is what I see. I see. The top two boxes only differ a couple of pixels (moz) one line (links) here. I have found that different browsers can interpret cellpadding, cellspacing and border widths differently. If you want a truly consistant layout you can set all those values to zero and use extra cells with a specified pixel width. It's a bit ungainly but it works. Actually, I think the font size matters more here -- I use 1024x768-sized fonts on an 800x600 window :) -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 1
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Josip Rodin wrote: Well, it's not two-column. It's a matrix of boxes, that's why they have the black outline around them. Yeah, but it's in a sort-of-two-column matrix... The reason why I don't like boxes like this is because they remind me of newspaper (or web) advertisments, and I have carefully trained my eyes not to read those, which makes me miss all the important stuff if I browse with my brain in automatic mode... -- \\// peter - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: new front page, take 1
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Josip Rodin wrote:
I see. The top two boxes only differ a couple of pixels (moz) one line
(links) here.
It might also be because I have
TABLE, TR, TH, TD {
width: auto !important;
}
in my personal style-sheet as an override to brain-dead web-duh-signers that
like to use table to layout text to fixed widths that look good to them,
but sucks with my settings.
--
\\//
peter - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: new front page, take 1
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Josip Rodin wrote: Actually, I think the font size matters more here Probably. I normally lower the font size quite a lot from the default settings in browsers, so that I can see more on the screen. 9 point Arial is usually my default setting. Also note that Opera by default has some exra margins between elements in ul or ol lists, which makes the top-right box higher. -- \\// peter - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: new front page, take 1
On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 06:23:04PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote:
On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 12:12:48PM -0500, James A. Treacy wrote:
Which reminds me, I need to bug the admins again (JT?) to change the log
format so we can see useragents. I'm really starting to believe CSS would
be
acceptable for the vast majority of viewers, but we should have more
numbers.
Tell me the change and I'll do it. If you want me to do it, just yell at
me and I'll figure it out myself. :)
Actually, for testing purposes I tried doing it locally but I can't seem to
get it done. I tried using 'CustomLog /var/log/apache/access.log combined'
in /etc/apache/httpd.conf but it didn't change the log file. After
restarting Apache, of course.
That's the right command, depending on which log file you want to use.
I'm surprised it didn't work though there was some strange issue about
virtual hosts and log formats but that was a while ago and I
don't remember specifics.
You also need a line like:
LogFormat %h %l %u %t \%r\ %s %b \%{Referer}i\ \%{User-Agent}i\
combined
It's like common except it has referer and user-agent.
BTW, I think using CSS would be a great idea and would then clear up a
lot of things and make them standardised. For example if we didn't
particularly like that particular yellow we can change it, also you
start to use things like h1 instead of font which is good for links.
Netscape will bork them up, but then again Netscape screws pretty much
everything up so I wouldn't be too worried about that. My version of
Gaelon messes some things up too, but Galeon is buggy; it renders a page
I know differently every second refresh, nice huh.
A bad example that is almost w3c compliant is at
http://people.debian.org/~csmall/ipv6/
It's good enough for me, I suspect it needs a bit more work but I'm not
too worried about it. It's also xhtml. BTW Dennis, I haven't put your
no ul in p changes yet :/
- Craig
--
Craig Small VK2XLZ GnuPG:1C1B D893 1418 2AF4 45EE 95CB C76C E5AC 12CA DFA5
Eye-Net Consulting http://www.eye-net.com.au/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MIEEE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian developer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: new front page, take 1
On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 09:23:15AM +1100, Craig Small wrote: [...] It's good enough for me, I suspect it needs a bit more work but I'm not too worried about it. It's also xhtml. BTW Dennis, I haven't put your no ul in p changes yet :/ As you mentioned this problem more than once, I'll say some words about it ;) Many pages do contain pul.../ul or ppre.../pre tags. The first idea when adding closing tags is to write pul.../ul/p Unfortunately this is wrong, because p cannot (as defined in HTML specs) contain ul tags, and previous syntax is in fact equivalent to p/pul.../ul I would suggest to recommend validation by wdg-html-validator instead of weblint, because it is based on a real SGML parser (weblint seems to be a basic HTML syntax checker). Denis
new front page, take 1
Hi guys, http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront/ /me prepares for the barrage -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 1
On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 03:32:10PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: Hi guys, http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront/ /me prepares for the barrage Oh and, obviously, the quick browse thing at the top is missing, so the page is too newbie-oriented. Maybe we should replace the red navbar with something better. Hopefully people will realize that that thing above isn't completely according to the RFC, of course, it's just my first sketch. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 1
On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 03:32:10PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: Hi guys, http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront/ /me prepares for the barrage Well, it passes the most important test, which is of course the girlfriend test. I asked my nonDebianized girlfriend which front page she liked better, without telling her which one was the current one. She chose the new one, she likes the black headers on the sections. I think it would be nice if the headers were clickable. I like the layout too, although I wondered if the light blue background would look better with square corners. Something about the ( ) ( ) effect at the top of the page bugs me; when the blue bar was just on one side it doesn't bug me. I suppose the Help Debian header is made into two lines to draw attention; but it looks a little awkward. I like the linked hypertext for newbies, as long as there's a popup somewhere for old hands' quick navigation. It looks OK in Lynx, too, but the old one looks nicer. The hr's in the old version really help in Lynx. Maybe you could sneak some hr's with the same color as the background in? definitly - definitely -- *--v- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 v--* | http://www.debian.org/releases/woody/installmanual | | debian-imac (potato): http://debian-imac.sourceforge.net | |Chris Tillman[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | May the Source be with you | **
Re: new front page, take 1
On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 16:03:41 +0100 Josip Rodin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 03:32:10PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: Oh and, obviously, the quick browse thing at the top is missing, so the page is too newbie-oriented. Maybe we should replace the red navbar with something better. it's there by now, it seems... I completly agree with replacing the red navbar but with what? I don't think drop-down menus will make people happy... I like the page, it is just like /devel now... but I missed the left menu, I hope it will be there, right? []s! -- Gustavo Noronha Silva - kov http://www.metainfo.org/kov *-* -+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+-+ | .''`. | Debian GNU/Linux: http://www.debian.org | | : :' : + Debian BR...: http://debian-br.cipsga.org.br+ | `. `'` + Q: Why did the chicken cross the road? + | `-| A: Upstream's decision. -- hmh | *-* -+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+--+-+-+
Re: new front page, take 1
On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 10:00:53AM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote: http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront/ /me prepares for the barrage Well, it passes the most important test, which is of course the girlfriend test. I asked my nonDebianized girlfriend which front page she liked better, without telling her which one was the current one. She chose the new one, she likes the black headers on the sections. LOL! Cool :) I think it would be nice if the headers were clickable. I like the layout too, although I wondered if the light blue background would look better with square corners. Something about the ( ) ( ) effect at the top of the page bugs me; when the blue bar was just on one side it doesn't bug me. Yeah, it looks somewhat... fatty, I guess? :) I suppose the Help Debian header is made into two lines to draw attention; but it looks a little awkward. It's a bug/feature in some browsers. It's not supposed to wrap. I don't get it. I like the linked hypertext for newbies, as long as there's a popup somewhere for old hands' quick navigation. Yes, like I said, that part is missing. It looks OK in Lynx, too, but the old one looks nicer. The hr's in the old version really help in Lynx. Maybe you could sneak some hr's with the same color as the background in? Hrm, that would probably look bad in links then... I hadn't checked it with lynx. definitly - definitely Thanks. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 1
On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 03:15:11PM -0200, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote: Oh and, obviously, the quick browse thing at the top is missing, so the page is too newbie-oriented. Maybe we should replace the red navbar with something better. it's there by now, it seems... I completly agree with replacing the red navbar but with what? I don't think drop-down menus will make people happy... I like the page, it is just like /devel now... but I missed the left menu, I hope it will be there, right? That's the thing I'm talking about in what you quoted above :) -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 1
On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 06:22:32PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 10:00:53AM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote: I suppose the Help Debian header is made into two lines to draw attention; but it looks a little awkward. It's a bug/feature in some browsers. It's not supposed to wrap. I don't get it. One trick I've used with printing documents in the MacOS world is an 'Option-Space' which is interpreted as a required, non-wrappable space. Does Linux have such a character? -- *--v- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 v--* | http://www.debian.org/releases/woody/installmanual | | debian-imac (potato): http://debian-imac.sourceforge.net | |Chris Tillman[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | May the Source be with you | **
Re: new front page, take 1
On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 10:47:07AM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote: I suppose the Help Debian header is made into two lines to draw attention; but it looks a little awkward. It's a bug/feature in some browsers. It's not supposed to wrap. I don't get it. One trick I've used with printing documents in the MacOS world is an 'Option-Space' which is interpreted as a required, non-wrappable space. Does Linux have such a character? ITYM nbsp;. I should probably have used that from the start, but once upon a time I got flamed by the Chinese translators when I automatized it... looks like it might work now, this is different. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 1
Chris == Chris Tillman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Chris One trick I've used with printing documents in the MacOS Chris world is an 'Option-Space' which is interpreted as a Chris required, non-wrappable space. Does Linux have such a Chris character? The correct question is, does a particular character set (such as ISO-8859-1) have such a character? Yes, it does - the HEX value is 0xA0. In fact, your Mac HTML editor probably translates the Macintosh character set to ISO-8859-1, so that it would translate your Option Space keystroke into that character. In fact, web browsers even on the Mac use ISO-8859-1 by default when displaying western language pages. However, the correct way to represent a non-breaking space in HTML is nbsp; (without the double quotes). No matter what the encoding of the overall page is (i.e. ISO-8859-1, Macintosh, Chinese Big-5, or even plain old ASCII) this will always generate a non-break space character, and not some weird symbol. Double-check the generated HTML after you use your Option Space trick. Hopefully, it will say nbsp;, and not a binary representation in your particular character set. -tor -- Får i ulveklær
Re: new front page, take 1
* Josip Rodin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2001-12-30 15:32]: http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront/ I like it. I have just one sugguestion: Don't make it three rows in two colums, simply make it 2 colums and put in both of them a table with three rows. I think it would make it align better although it can end up with quite some space at the bottom of one of the colums. Just a thought Alfie -- Das einzige intuitive Interface ist der Mutternippel. Alles andere ist gelernt -- sinngemaesse Wiedergabe aus comp.irgendwas.interfaces
Re: new front page, take 1
On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 10:05:08PM +0100, Gerfried Fuchs wrote: http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront/ I like it. I have just one sugguestion: Don't make it three rows in two colums, simply make it 2 colums and put in both of them a table with three rows. I think it would make it align better although it can end up with quite some space at the bottom of one of the colums. Actually, won't that sort it improperly in Lynx? -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 1
* Josip Rodin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2001-12-30 22:13]: On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 10:05:08PM +0100, Gerfried Fuchs wrote: http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront/ I like it. I have just one sugguestion: Don't make it three rows in two colums, simply make it 2 colums and put in both of them a table with three rows. I think it would make it align better although it can end up with quite some space at the bottom of one of the colums. Actually, won't that sort it improperly in Lynx? Uhm, I guess you are right with that. But personally I think lynx is obsoleted by links/w3m So long, Alfie [was just a thought :] -- There are people who see things as they are and they wonder why, and there are people who dream things as they have never been and they wonder why not. G. Shaw
Re: new front page, take 1
On Sun, 30 Dec 2001, Josip Rodin wrote: http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront/ I never really liked the /devel layout, so I can't say I dig this: 1. It's messy; different sized (width, height) boxes, with different amount of text. 2. It's bad coding; it is using table for layout, the headings (like What is Debian) is not a h tag, which disables Opera's heading-navigation (W/S). 3. There's too many different colours (white on blue on red, yellow on black on light-blue, black on white on light-blue, etc.) 4. There's no good reading order (should I go top-down or left-right)? 5. It's multi-column. I size my browser to fit as much text on a line as I can read. I really, *really*, REALLY hate it when pages try to force their own column widths on me. I can take a navbar on either side with text that re-flows (like the old one), but I don't like this approach. But it's good that you throw some ideas around. -- \\// peter - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: new front page, take 1
Peter Karlsson wrote: I never really liked the /devel layout, so I can't say I dig this: Peter sums up my thoughts nicely. Especially points 1, 3, and 5, and most espcially point 3 (too many color combinations). OTOH, I think the text and links (especially in the using debian section) are a lot better than the current page. -- see shy jo
Re: new front page, take 1
On Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 10:54:14PM +0100, Peter Karlsson wrote: I never really liked the /devel layout, so I can't say I dig this: 1. It's messy; different sized (width, height) boxes, with different amount of text. AFAICT the differences in size are rather small. I looked at it in links 80x25 and mozilla 800x600. Can you make a snapshot so I can see if the picture we're seeing is too different? 2. It's bad coding; it is using table for layout, the headings (like What is Debian) is not a h tag, which disables Opera's heading-navigation (W/S). WRT table -- it's the same old argument... :) I thought I couldn't make those things h and Helvetica at the same time, so I didn't try. Are you saying it's possible? 3. There's too many different colours (white on blue on red, yellow on black on light-blue, black on white on light-blue, etc.) Another old argument. Though I can't say much about the red parts at the top -- I just left those intact, and worked on index.wml. 4. There's no good reading order (should I go top-down or left-right)? Left to right. How do you read all other web pages? If anything, _this_ can be assumed... 5. It's multi-column. I size my browser to fit as much text on a line as I can read. It's a matter of space. If I made it all into a normal page, the whole page would have been long and there would be many paragraphs with one-line sentences. This would undoubtedly annoy many vgreps[1] out there. Pages that have = 3 columns and too much contrast (a bad imitation of newspapers) also annoy many vgreps out there[2] -- that's why I used just two of them. Two doesn't seem to be excessive to me, even in links(1) which narrows the page. But it's good that you throw some ideas around. :) [1] visual grep [2] including mine, ugh -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 1
Thanks for putting up a prototype! I like the layout of the new page. It seems to me to be easier to scan. Here are my comments: About the too many colors issue. If you make the top nav bar in a similar style as the rest of the page it will all look fine, and avoid the clown pants effect. I believe one of the original goals of the redesign RFC was to clean up the About Debian section. It would appear that the new design breaks up those menu items into What is Debian and Help Debian. I LOVE this as it breaks up the menu items by the users intentions ala, LEARN about Debian, or HELP Debian. If it turns out that a decision is made against the new graphical layout, this idea could be used with the current layout. While I think the new page will be better for new users to scan, I find it breaks some things I've come to rely on, like a quick link to the mailing list archives and a quick link to package search. I think the new page will be less useful to long time debian web-site users. I'm not sure how I feel about this. I suspect more long term users would want to use the site map to move around. If so, the site map should be improved. Currently it's quite hard to scan (or vgrep as Josip says). Move the developers corner link into the helping debian box. It looks lonely out there. Some suggestions that would apply to either this page or the current one: Add a search entry box next to the search button on the top nav bar. You have room for it unless you go below 640x480. Users who are looking to search look for an entry box. Add the current DWN to the news area, and show less other news. The logs showed (IIRC) that the DWN was far more popular. -Jeff PS: I hope everyone is having happy holidays! --- Jeff Albro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Customer Interaction Consultant Boston, MA
Re: new front page, take 1
Jeff Albro wrote: About the too many colors issue. If you make the top nav bar in a similar style as the rest of the page it will all look fine, and avoid the clown pants effect. It would help, but we have to keep the debian logo up there, and that at least means there's still be red on something (logo), yellow on black, and black on white, on the cyan background. That's still rather a lot of colors. Move the developers corner link into the helping debian box. It looks lonely out there. Yes. Some suggestions that would apply to either this page or the current one: Add a search entry box next to the search button on the top nav bar. You have room for it unless you go below 640x480. Users who are looking to search look for an entry box. Another possibility would be to concentrate the form-y stuff in the upper-right corner where there is already one short form. Add the current DWN to the news area, and show less other news. The logs showed (IIRC) that the DWN was far more popular. That would be hard, DWN is really not desinged to fit into a little box. Unless you mean the (fairly uninteresting) one line summaries of each issue. -- see shy jo
