Re: new front page, take 2
* Matthew Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-02-07 00:07]: > Mind you I wouldn't say that Linux-i386 'finished' either as all development > is ongoing (im sure you realise that)... Take it as 'finished' like 'we released it already and support it'-finished. HTH, Alfie -- Für Linux? mutt und sonst nichts. mutt ist aber console und ich will eins das ich mit der maus bedienen kann und keinen nostalgischen wert bestitzt :) -- privater irc query, 2001-10-22
Re: new front page, take 2
On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 09:59:59PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: > http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront2/ Thank you for your nice work. I checked this under several browsers: Mozilla, Galeon, and Amaya (1024, 640 width) in X; and Lynks, Links, and W3m in console (80 Char/line) Please consider using less than 3 columns for "Quick Link" section. Here is why: It looks nice in modern environment but it is not kind to low end environments. For example, 4 column design of "Quick Link" over flows from 80 char limit in w3m and links. Of course, we can side scroll but it is pain. Also if a browser in X environment uses 16 point font in 640 pixel width display, it requires side scroll. These large fonts are needed for old man like me. Lynks does not have problem since it does not recognize column :) Regards, Osamu -- +++ + Osamu Aoki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> @ Cupertino, CA USA +
Re: new front page, take 2
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 20:03:35 +0100 "Josip Rodin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 06:53:21PM +, Matthew Bell wrote: > Bah, and the text about the linux kernel needs to be changed, perhaps: > "Debian can use the Linux, NetBSD, or Hurd kernels, but most of the basic > > OS tools come from the GNU project; hence the GNU prefix" (not sure about > the NetBSD port and GNU/Linux will have to be written down somewhere) > > I'm against advertizing kernel ports that aren't nearly as finished as the > primary one. Heck, not even all architecture ports of Linux are as finished > as the primary one... :/ Perhaps we shouldn't hide it either; perhaps something to the effect of "primarily uses the Linux kernel, although ports to other kernels are in progress." Mind you I wouldn't say that Linux-i386 'finished' either as all development is ongoing (im sure you realise that)...
Re: new front page, take 2
Feh! - Forwarded message from Mail Delivery System <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Return-Path: <> Envelope-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery-Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 20:01:53 +0100 Received: from mail by cibalia.gkvk.hr with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16YXKL-0005UL-00 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Wed, 06 Feb 2002 20:01:53 +0100 From: Mail Delivery System <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Mail failure - malformed recipient address Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 20:01:53 +0100 Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1 required=5 tests=NO_MX_FOR_FROM A message that you sent contained a recipient address that was incorrectly constructed: "Debian WWW List"debian-www@lists.debian.org missing or malformed local part (expected word or "<") The message has not been delivered to any recipients. -- This is a copy of your message, including all the headers. -- Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 20:01:53 +0100 To: Matthew Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Debian WWW List"debian-www@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: new front page, take 2 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 06:46:25PM +, Matthew Bell wrote: You should wrap your lines at <80 chars. > - The Tabs need to be aligned by widthes and lefts, and tops and > - heights, for horizontally and vertically adjacent tabs, > - respectively. Even if that means table hacks and all (how about > - making horizontally aligned tab in the same table and using a fixed > - percentage (ie. 80% !) for each vertically seperate tab) ;( I'm not sure I understand how that would work, but I have a vague idea... > - If you're going with the whole rounded rectangle theme this might be > - implemented in the tabs as well (yes even the inverted corner on the > - header and black border on the tabs). More work :( (And even more > - for that too) It's not really the work that worries me (that stuff's trivial to make), it's the addition of more and more complicated tables... > - The tabs should all be centered or all be left-aligned See 2.5. > - There should be the same amount of space between the red-bar and the > - Debian logo as with the blue table (I would choose the lesser), or > - move the language select language box down, or something, as it > - doesn't look right. Yeah, but I wasn't sure how to implement the same amount of space the best way. The larger space is due to a . Suggestions? > - As much as I like the yellow-on-black (it draws your eye to the > - page), too many colours on a page is a bad thing (I think). Have you > - tried the red? (with another blue being an outside bet) See 2.5. > - The s at the bottom of the page don't look right. The list of other languages will go between them. They're not there simply because I built the page in a non-standard environment. > - Possibly also move the contact details to quick links? That's a generic footer, I'd prefer to keep it there. > - One of the list of dates is in a fixed width font, one isn't. I > - would suggest a fixed width font in both (like on the old/current > - site), or using a table, variable width fonts and the dates > - right-aligned? Maybe the latter... > - Personally, I like the sound of the of the menu on the left with > - tabs on the plain background in the left space, Like your second point, what I think would be the issue is that the links would be rounded and the cards wouldn't... but I guess I'll have to play with it since several people like it on the left... > - but if it's too '97, who am I to stand in the way of progress ;) Let me reiterate, I'm not doing this just because I feel it's (slightly) demode. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness. - End forwarded message - -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 2
On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 06:53:21PM +, Matthew Bell wrote: > Bah, and the text about the linux kernel needs to be changed, perhaps: > "Debian can use the Linux, NetBSD, or Hurd kernels, but most of the basic > OS tools come from the GNU project; hence the GNU prefix" (not sure about > the NetBSD port and GNU/Linux will have to be written down somewhere) I'm against advertizing kernel ports that aren't nearly as finished as the primary one. Heck, not even all architecture ports of Linux are as finished as the primary one... :/ -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 2
On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 06:46:25PM +, Matthew Bell wrote: You should wrap your lines at <80 chars. > - The Tabs need to be aligned by widthes and lefts, and tops and > - heights, for horizontally and vertically adjacent tabs, > - respectively. Even if that means table hacks and all (how about > - making horizontally aligned tab in the same table and using a fixed > - percentage (ie. 80% !) for each vertically seperate tab) ;( I'm not sure I understand how that would work, but I have a vague idea... > - If you're going with the whole rounded rectangle theme this might be > - implemented in the tabs as well (yes even the inverted corner on the > - header and black border on the tabs). More work :( (And even more > - for that too) It's not really the work that worries me (that stuff's trivial to make), it's the addition of more and more complicated tables... > - The tabs should all be centered or all be left-aligned See 2.5. > - There should be the same amount of space between the red-bar and the > - Debian logo as with the blue table (I would choose the lesser), or > - move the language select language box down, or something, as it > - doesn't look right. Yeah, but I wasn't sure how to implement the same amount of space the best way. The larger space is due to a . Suggestions? > - As much as I like the yellow-on-black (it draws your eye to the > - page), too many colours on a page is a bad thing (I think). Have you > - tried the red? (with another blue being an outside bet) See 2.5. > - The s at the bottom of the page don't look right. The list of other languages will go between them. They're not there simply because I built the page in a non-standard environment. > - Possibly also move the contact details to quick links? That's a generic footer, I'd prefer to keep it there. > - One of the list of dates is in a fixed width font, one isn't. I > - would suggest a fixed width font in both (like on the old/current > - site), or using a table, variable width fonts and the dates > - right-aligned? Maybe the latter... > - Personally, I like the sound of the of the menu on the left with > - tabs on the plain background in the left space, Like your second point, what I think would be the issue is that the links would be rounded and the cards wouldn't... but I guess I'll have to play with it since several people like it on the left... > - but if it's too '97, who am I to stand in the way of progress ;) Let me reiterate, I'm not doing this just because I feel it's (slightly) demode. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 2
Bah, and the text about the linux kernel needs to be changed, perhaps: "Debian can use the Linux, NetBSD, or Hurd kernels, but most of the basic OS tools come from the GNU project; hence the GNU prefix" (not sure about the NetBSD port and GNU/Linux will have to be written down somewhere) Also, the page title will have to change; I like the title: "The Debian Project - The Universal Operating System"
Re: new front page, take 2
My two cents (warning: may include re-iteration and completely pedantic points): - The Tabs need to be aligned by widthes and lefts, and tops and heights, for horizontally and vertically adjacent tabs, respectively. Even if that means table hacks and all (how about making horizontally aligned tab in the same table and using a fixed percentage (ie. 80% !) for each vertically seperate tab) ;( - If you're going with the whole rounded rectangle theme this might be implemented in the tabs as well (yes even the inverted corner on the header and black border on the tabs). More work :( (And even more for that too) - The tabs should all be centered or all be left-aligned - There should be the same amount of space between the red-bar and the Debian logo as with the blue table (I would choose the lesser), or move the language select language box down, or something, as it doesn't look right. - As much as I like the yellow-on-black (it draws your eye to the page), too many colours on a page is a bad thing (I think). Have you tried the red? (with another blue being an outside bet) - The s at the bottom of the page don't look right. Possibly also move the contact details to quick links? - One of the list of dates is in a fixed width font, one isn't. I would suggest a fixed width font in both (like on the old/current site), or using a table, variable width fonts and the dates right-aligned? - Personally, I like the sound of the of the menu on the left with tabs on the plain background in the left space, but if it's too '97, who am I to stand in the way of progress ;) Matthew Bell
Re: new front page, take 2
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Josip Rodin wrote:
> However, browsing at 800x600 and 1024x768 is much more common than e.g.
That's my resolution.
> 1600x1200. In fact, it is usually much more sane, because (like with things
> written on paper) there's a point where a long like makes the reader lose
> his concentration and confuses him when trying to move to the next line.
Well, let's shorten the line a bit and display a menu on the left side ;-).
> > Navigation on the left is a common thing and people know that kind of
> > navigation.
>
> Which doesn't make it much more intuitive...
I repeat: I do not want to have a flame war about that. It was just a
thought of mine and I would not really insist on it.
Kind regards
Andreas.
Re: new front page, take 2
On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 02:40:03PM +0100, Tille, Andreas wrote: > > My main beef with the left+right idea is that there's a load of empty space > > below the left bar on small resolutions. Then again that can be fixed... > This could be a reason, but you can't cope with everybodys screen > resolution. However, browsing at 800x600 and 1024x768 is much more common than e.g. 1600x1200. In fact, it is usually much more sane, because (like with things written on paper) there's a point where a long like makes the reader lose his concentration and confuses him when trying to move to the next line. > Navigation on the left is a common thing and people know that kind of > navigation. Which doesn't make it much more intuitive... -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 2
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Josip Rodin wrote: > > As in http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront2/Pics/about.en.gif for instance. > > No, I mean in the cards: > > ___ > | Title | <-- heading I inteded this, because yellow on black is just ugly. > .---. > | contents | <-- border > | and stuff | > `---' Perhaps replacing black by blue would be a good idea, but I'm not sure about that > Should just the heading be white on blue, or should the border of the > card contents be made blue? (And the background white again?) My initial suggestion should be: s/black_title_background/blue_as_in_the_gif/ s/yellow_title_test/white_as_in_the_gif/ Kind regards Andreas.
Re: new front page, take 2
On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 02:37:40PM +0100, Tille, Andreas wrote: > > > Why not using white on blue as in the main navigation bar images? > > > > Both the border or just the heading? > As in http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront2/Pics/about.en.gif for instance. No, I mean in the cards: ___ | Title | <-- heading .---. | contents | <-- border | and stuff | `---' Should just the heading be white on blue, or should the border of the card contents be made blue? (And the background white again?) -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 2
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Josip Rodin wrote: > My main beef with the left+right idea is that there's a load of empty space > below the left bar on small resolutions. Then again that can be fixed... This could be a reason, but you can't cope with everybodys screen resolution. Navigation on the left is a common thing and people know that kind of navigation. > (Oh and my small beef with it is that it's s 1997. :) One reason to stay with this solution. ;-) Kind regards Andreas. PS: Not to forget: Thanks for your effort!!
Re: new front page, take 2
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Josip Rodin wrote: > On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 09:39:55AM +0100, Tille, Andreas wrote: > > Why not using white on blue as in the main navigation bar images? > > Both the border or just the heading? As in http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront2/Pics/about.en.gif for instance. > > I really like the nevigation at the left side. So I would prefer the > > current layout but with the "Quick Links" as column on the left. > > Which current? :) Sorry, your *new* layout with just the old navigation bar on the left. Kind regards Andreas.
Re: new front page, take 2
On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 10:59:44AM +, Jaime E. Villate wrote: > a simple table with one column on the left (navigation bar) and only text > on the right. My main beef with the left+right idea is that there's a load of empty space below the left bar on small resolutions. Then again that can be fixed... (Oh and my small beef with it is that it's s 1997. :) -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 2
On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 09:39:55AM +0100, Tille, Andreas wrote: > Why not using white on blue as in the main navigation bar images? Both the border or just the heading? > I really like the nevigation at the left side. So I would prefer the > current layout but with the "Quick Links" as column on the left. Which current? :) -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 2
On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 09:18:29PM +, Rob Bradford wrote: > * Maybe put quick links at the bottom of the page. ... > * Definitely put the tab left aligned for the quick links, not centred. > * You sure you want lower case for "quick links" all the others are > upper case. These two went together, in an attempt to make the links section immediately distinct. I'm not particularly attached to that, it can go if there's consensus... > * Boxes on the same level the same height, e.g. Install and Upgrade I thought of that, but AFAICT it would involve either even more ugly table hacks or making them fixed which might get really ew. > * Maybe put News and Help Debian side byside. News wrap pretty badly (though I've been working on fixing that, again with table hacks), and they really don't fit together. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 2
On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 09:22:48PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: > Josip Rodin wrote: > > http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront2/ You've done a good job in reorganizing the important information, but I still preferred a simple table with one column on the left (navigation bar) and only text on the right. I think it is not worth the complication of nesting several tables (a white table on top of a black one on top of a blue one on top of a white one) just to get that cute effect of index cards with tabs. > I still dislike the big nasty black and yellow titles of course. So do I. Black and yellow look really bad with the other colors on the page. Try white letters on top of dark grey for the boxes border and tab background. > I wonder if the links section should be so near the top. I had to scroll > down pretty far (obscenly big fonts here :-) to get to the nice > install/upgrade part. I think it should better be on a left navigation bar. Regards, Jaime
Re: new front page, take 2
On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 09:22:48PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote: > > http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront2/ > Mmh, I hjappen to mbe sitting in front of a windows 98 computer, and all > I see when I load the page is several downloads of images, and then a > completly white page. View source shows some html. Weird. > That's netscape 4.5. Must be a nescaffe bug... the only thing that's marginally improper in the HTML on the page is widths *% for some tables. (I'll probably change that to 100% since that should work equally.) > I wonder if the links section should be so near the top. I had to scroll > down pretty far (obscenly big fonts here :-) to get to the nice > install/upgrade part. I already got several requests to move the quick links _up_... can't please _anyone_... :| -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: new front page, take 2
On 4 Feb 2002, Rob Bradford wrote: > * Definitely put the tab left aligned for the quick links, not centred. Agreed. > * You sure you want lower case for "quick links" all the others are > upper case. Should be upper case, IMHO. > * Boxes on the same level the same height, e.g. Install and Upgrade Surely. > * Maybe put News and Help Debian side byside. Seems reasonable, because the items seldomly reach half of the line. > Just some minor little fixes, looks nice :)) On general yes. As Joey I do not like the yellow on black tabs. Why not using white on blue as in the main navigation bar images? I like pages with less colors. By the way: Perhaps you discussed it on this list some time before (i just joined some weeks ago) and if this remark potentionally restarts a flame war just forget it: I really like the nevigation at the left side. So I would prefer the current layout but with the "Quick Links" as column on the left. Just my 2¢. By the way "Debian uses the Linux kernel" will be not correct in the future and may be we just mention this even now. Kind regards Andreas.
Re: new front page, take 2
Josip Rodin wrote: > http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront2/ Mmh, I hjappen to mbe sitting in front of a windows 98 computer, and all I see when I load the page is several downloads of images, and then a completly white page. View source shows some html. Weird. That's netscape 4.5. Looks like it works in IE, and I can't fault the content, I still dislike the big nasty black and yellow titles of course. I wonder if the links section should be so near the top. I had to scroll down pretty far (obscenly big fonts here :-) to get to the nice install/upgrade part. -- see shy jo
Re: new front page, take 2
On Mon, 2002-02-04 at 20:59, Josip Rodin wrote: > Hi, > > http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront2/ > > I think I actually included the majority of the previous suggestions :) > Notice the other touches in the boxes... > > -- > 2. That which causes joy or happiness. Nice, not what i would have done. Maybe too bold. But it works well, just some little fixes: * Maybe put quick links at the bottom of the page. * Definitely put the tab left aligned for the quick links, not centred. * You sure you want lower case for "quick links" all the others are upper case. * Boxes on the same level the same height, e.g. Install and Upgrade * Maybe put News and Help Debian side byside. Just some minor little fixes, looks nice :)) -- Rob 'robster' Bradford http://robster.org.uk
new front page, take 2
Hi, http://joy.gkvk.hr/newfront2/ I think I actually included the majority of the previous suggestions :) Notice the other touches in the boxes... -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
