Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:14:26PM +0100, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: "Zephaniah E. Hull" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You simply CAN NOT use mesag3-glide2 on a V3 with X4, it won't work. Uhm. Why? (if I'm going to be maintaining this, I'd like to know why it doesn't work with a specific setup, in particular, I'd like to know if this is a bug in mesa or a bug in glide2) Neither. It's that the X server and Glide2 would have to cooperate in order to let you do it. As of XFree4, X no longer knows how to talk to Glide2, but does know how to talk to Glide3. Evil, eh? -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED]Free software developer Crow_ hmm, is there a --now-dammit option for exim? PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 08:08:16PM +0100, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither. It's that the X server and Glide2 would have to cooperate in order to let you do it. As of XFree4, X no longer knows how to talk to Glide2, but does know how to talk to Glide3. Evil, eh? Then why does it work for V1 and V2? What you are saying sound like "there's no DRM for glide2". Maybe the bit of info I'm missing is why would I want to use glide2 instead of glide3 if I have a V3? I remember vaguely something along the lines of "all the V3s are equal, but some are more equal than others". Maybe I should go and buy myself a V1 or V2... Ok, the design of the V3 chip is that if you try to talk to it about 3D while it is in the middle of doing 2D, or try to talk to it about 2D while it is doing 3D then you will have serious problems. (FWIW, almost all 2D/3D cards have the same.) Thus the 2D code must know that you are doing 3D on the card, X3 knew about glide2, and worked with it to avoid these problems. X4 no longer knows about glide2, it knows about the DRI, which means that trying to use mesa3-glide2 on a V3 with X4 will result in a disaster. You can use a V1 and V2 just fine with it under X4 because X4 does not need to know anything about them, they are purely 3D cards which just pass-through the VGA signal normally, this is why they don't natively do 3D in a window. I suppose it might be worth looking at the tdfx driver to see if I can get it to know about glide2 again, as last I looked mesa3-glide2 + X3 was faster then DRI + X4 on the V3 (though, this may change with the DRI CVS code, which I should have packaged soon.). Any questions? Zephaniah E. Hull. (Just waking up, so not as clear as I could be, sorry.) -- Marcelo -- PGP EA5198D1-Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]-GPG E65A7801 Keys available at http://whitestar.soark.net/~warp/public_keys. CCs of replies from mailing lists are encouraged. }No. I just point out to troublemakers that I have an English degree, }which means that I am allowed to make changes to the English language. }(What _else_ could it possibly be for?) }Wow; in that case, my physics degree is *WAY* more useful than I }had thought. This just proves how useless a computer science degree is: there is hardly any useful science involved at all. I want my computer black magic degree! -- Victoria Swann, Jonathan Dursi, and D. Joseph Creighton on ASR PGP signature
doogiebug resolved
On Thu, Mar 22, 2001 at 03:17:57AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: Two people have reported runtime linking errors with the latest XFree86 4 packages on i386. I cannot reproduce these. I am running my own latest versions of the packages, am using bleeding-edge Debian unstable -- updated today -- and have rebooted in an effort to reproduce the problem. No dice. My xdm and xterm refuse to break. This is resolved. Turns out my build environment (an unstable chroot) was busted, and I misinterpreted the output of ldd. I am now able to reproduce the bug. Fixed packages have been built, tested, are in incoming and should be dinstalled today. Thanks to those who helped, including BenC, who taught me the wonders of objdump --private-headers. I'm never going back to ambiguous old ldd. :-P -- G. Branden Robinson | Optimists believe we live in the best of Debian GNU/Linux| all possible worlds. Pessimists are [EMAIL PROTECTED] | afraid the optimists are right. http://www.debian.org/~branden/ | PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the "glide" driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. You can use a V1 and V2 just fine with it under X4 because X4 does not need to know anything about them, What it needs to know about them is provided by libglide2-dev. What X4 doesn't try to do with those old cards is 3D acceleration. -- G. Branden Robinson |It was a typical net.exercise -- a Debian GNU/Linux|screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot [EMAIL PROTECTED] |on the pavement, where used to lie the http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |carcass of a dead horse. PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:20:09PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the "glide" driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. More accurately, I should have said the X4 tdfx driver no longer knows anything about glide2. Sadly, it is very likely non-trivial to get the tdfx driver working with both glide2 and DRI source wise, let alone run time. Zephaniah E. Hull. -- G. Branden Robinson |It was a typical net.exercise -- a Debian GNU/Linux|screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot [EMAIL PROTECTED] |on the pavement, where used to lie the http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |carcass of a dead horse. -- PGP EA5198D1-Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]-GPG E65A7801 Keys available at http://whitestar.soark.net/~warp/public_keys. CCs of replies from mailing lists are encouraged. OK, fine. You're arguing semantics, though. "arguing semantics" is not the same as "arguing nomenclature". My DI was very good at arguing semantics. He had this funny idea that an "unloaded" weapon was one that you had personally inspected and that the semantic difference mattered. Something about not wanting to do the paperwork of one of us killed someone with an unloaded weapon. Most technical debates are ultimately about semantics, but that doesn't mean that they are unimportant. -- Shmuel Metz and Steve Sobol on ASR. PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:20:09PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the "glide" driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. You mean to say a Voodoo2 graphics card that is sold/marketed/used as a 3D only chipset, can be used under X4 as a '2D' card? With no other VESA/VGA card available? If that's true that's great, I have a V2 sitting here doing nothing, don't play many games under Linux -). But I could use it build another computer that's missing a graphics card, and use gdm/xdm/kdm to boot straight to X4? You can use a V1 and V2 just fine with it under X4 because X4 does not need to know anything about them, What it needs to know about them is provided by libglide2-dev. What X4 doesn't try to do with those old cards is 3D acceleration. If the above is true, could you provide some pointers? All the material I've been able to find about V2 is mostly 'how to get quake/doom/etc to run on your V2 card and linux'. Thanks Gordon Sadler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, 24 Mar 2001 14:54:35 -0600 Gordon Sadler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:20:09PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the "glide" driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. You mean to say a Voodoo2 graphics card that is sold/marketed/used as a 3D only chipset, can be used under X4 as a '2D' card? With no other VESA/VGA card available? If that's true that's great, I have a V2 sitting here doing nothing, don't play many games under Linux -). But I could use it build another computer that's missing a graphics card, and use gdm/xdm/kdm to boot straight to X4? The Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 chips are designed mainly for 3D, but they are also capable of 2D. The reason that they aren't marketed for this is that their 2D performance is exceedingly slow (ie, unaccelerated) compared to cards that are actually designed to do 2D. The 2D capabilities of these cards is mainly intended for drawing in-game 2D displays, such as heads-up displays, status bars, etc. Use the `glide' driver in XFree86 4.x to use your Voodoo2 as the only video card. Regards, Alex. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CVS DRI packages.
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 11:14:20PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:00:51PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: The 4 mesa packages are obvious, they will conflict, provide, and replace their counterparts[1]. Now, xserver-dri is a little less obvious, it depends on xserver-xfree86, but also needs to override 14 files[2] from it. I see superscripts but no footnotes. See my reply to Marcelo E. Magallon for said footnotes. Also, what he pointed out for the X server should work, not sure why I did not remember that. Zephaniah E. Hull. -- G. Branden Robinson |Never underestimate the power of human Debian GNU/Linux|stupidity. [EMAIL PROTECTED] |-- Robert Heinlein http://www.debian.org/~branden/ | -- PGP EA5198D1-Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]-GPG E65A7801 Keys available at http://whitestar.soark.net/~warp/public_keys. CCs of replies from mailing lists are encouraged. Mercury Knghtbrd: Any suggestions on how to semi-easily make $55? Knghtbrd Mercury: if you went and beat the crap out of some QL people I'm sure you'd get at least tenfold that from people expressing their gratitude ; Knghtbrd (my luck he takes that seriously hehe) Mercury Knghtbrd: This channel is logged.. [msg(Knghtbrd)] If you can provide transportation.. =:] [Knghtbrd([EMAIL PROTECTED])] hahahaha PGP signature
Re: CVS DRI packages.
On Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 05:15:09AM +0200, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: I'm sorry, I forgot one important bit. "Zephaniah E. Hull" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My rough naming scheme is as follows: xlibmesa3-dri, xlibmesa-dri-dev, xlibosmesa3-dri, xlibosmesa-dri-dev, and xserver-dri. You might want to provide xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/os-support/linux/drm/kernel (or whatever the actual path is), as every now and then the DRM modules in the kernel get out of sync with the ones in CVS. Yes, this should be provided. Shouldn't it be provided in a package like drm- modules-src, though, like lm-sensors-src and alsa-src? This would mean breaking that part of the trunk off and placing it in /usr/src/modules/drm or the like, and having the dri modules built whenever make-kpkg makes a modules_image. I'm getting ahead of Zeph here, though, and I'm of no skill to volunteer help... :) -- -=|JP|=-"This space intentionally left blank." Jon Pennington | Debian 2.4 -o) [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Auto Enthusiast/\\ Kansas City, MO, USA| Proud Husband and Father _\_V -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
random sig 11 in 4.0.2
Greetings! :) [Sent to debian-x because I do not know the proper package against which to submit a bug report. Branden, please advise for general X bug reports.] This is the second sig11 I have seen lately. I have also seen cut'n'paste fail miserably for the last few days. (Well, the cut seems fine, but the paste is often noise, sometimes text from elsewhere on screen, and often one of my rxvt-xpm terminals dies during the 'paste' operation.) I do not know if the cut'n'paste problem is related to the signal 11s. This sig11, I was running windowmaker, xmms, wmxmms, wmbiff, about ten rxvt-xpm terminals (most running bash, one mutt, probably a few vims) konqueror, and xscreensaver. The xscreensaver was running a screen hack, though I did not notice which one. :( xmms was stopped but still open. I was not interacting with my computer myself, though it does do stuff on its own once in a while in typical unix fashion. :) I am running Linux kernel: Linux amidala 2.4.2 #2 SMP Tue Mar 20 20:34:01 PST 2001 i686 unknown I built it myself from kernel.org sources, gpg verified etc. The video card is a matrox g400max running with only a single monitor attached. Does anyone know what other information would be useful in tracking down this crash? (I've found that I can also reliably cause an X crash through BitKeeper's 'citool' application, though I haven't put any effort into figuring out a simpler test case than my whole source tree + BitKeeper. Are these two related?) The machine has otherwise been very stable -- it is only in the last few days (two weeks at most, probably only one week) that I have had these problems. I try to keep fairly up-to-date with debian unstable. Thanks all. :) [Branden, also note that I would find the XFree86.?.log file more useful if it date-time stamped once in a while similar to crontab's --mark-- facility -- consider asking the good people at xf86 to add such a feature to help debugging. If the 1000 lines of mode changes happened when I loaded X, fine. If one line was printed for each desktop switch I do (with windowmaker's ^+alt+left|right hot keys), fine. If the 1000 lines were printed in the second before horrible death, it sure would be nice to know. :] -- Earthlink: The #1 provider of unsolicited bulk email to the Internet. XFree86 Version 4.0.2 / X Window System (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6400) Release Date: 18 December 2000 If the server is older than 6-12 months, or if your card is newer than the above date, look for a newer version before reporting problems. (See http://www.XFree86.Org/FAQ) Operating System: Linux 2.2.18 i686 [ELF] Module Loader present (==) Log file: "/var/log/XFree86.0.log", Time: Thu Mar 22 18:49:07 2001 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/XF86Config-4" Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (??) unknown. (==) ServerLayout "Single" (**) |--Screen "Screen0" (0) (**) | |--Monitor "Mitsubishi" (**) | |--Device "G400_0" (**) |--Input Device "Mouse0" (**) |--Input Device "Keyboard0" (WW) The directory "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/PEX/" does not exist. Entry deleted from font path. (**) FontPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/freefont/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/:noscale,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/:noscale" (==) RgbPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" (==) ModulePath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules" (--) using VT number 7 (WW) Cannot open APM (II) Module ABI versions: XFree86 ANSI C Emulation: 0.1 XFree86 Video Driver: 0.3 XFree86 XInput driver : 0.1 XFree86 Server Extension : 0.1 XFree86 Font Renderer : 0.2 (II) Loader running on linux (II) LoadModule: "bitmap" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libbitmap.a (II) Module bitmap: vendor="The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.0.2, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: XFree86 Font Renderer ABI class: XFree86 Font Renderer, version 0.2 (II) Loading font Bitmap (II) LoadModule: "pcidata" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libpcidata.a (II) Module pcidata: vendor="The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.0.2, module version = 0.1.0 ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.3 (II) PCI: Probing config type using method 1 (II) PCI: Config type is 1 (II) PCI: stages = 0x03, oldVal1 = 0x, mode1Res1 = 0x8000 (II) PCI: PCI scan (all values are in hex) (II) PCI: 00:00:0: chip 8086,7190 card , rev 03 class 06,00,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 00:01:0: chip 8086,7191 card , rev 03 class 06,04,00 hdr 01 (II) PCI: 00:07:0: chip 8086,7110 card , rev 02 class 06,01,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:07:1: chip 8086,7111 card , rev 01 class 01,01,80 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 00:07:2: chip 8086,7112 card , rev 01 class 0c,03,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 00:07:3: chip 8086,7113
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 03:15:25PM -0800, Alexander Hvostov wrote: I have this problem too. After a while, X freezes while running _any_ OpenGL application. This means blender, GL screen savers, GL xmms plugins, etc. I'll assume you're running XFree4 since you didn't say otherwise. X freezes like this for me quite frequently. Branden claimed it was a kernel bug some months ago, but that was fixed and it still dies. A number of things cause it, but I never knew DRI to be one of them. Mozilla caused my uptimes to be measured in hours rather than weeks under recent XFree4 packages. With my new card (ATI Radeon) it's changing video modes (which anyone who has seen me work in X knows I spend 30% of my time in 640x480 or lower due to unreadably small, aliased fonts in things like Netscape..) The problem seems to be in short that damned near anything will cause X to lock up and stop responding. A suggestion to make your life a little easier is to renice XFree86 to 0. For some reason it gets -10 by default amd that's just pleading for a lockup to down the box if you don't have a convenient box to ssh in and fix it. The only way to recover from this is to login to the machine over the network, kill -9 X, and restart it (which, in my case, is done by gdm). However, doing this causes the text mode console to become totally screwed up; attempting to switch to the console works except that the display is still in graphics mode (with whatever X drew on the screen). This display doesn't get repainted, since all the software (the kernel and X) thinks the display is in text mode, but it really isn't. Switching back to X works fine though (ie, it repaints the screen and otherwise behaves normally). You can fix this by using the framebuffer console for your card. Except that most framebuffer drivers are not quite stable (like XFree4 it would seem) and very slow. For this reason, I've disabled DRI on my system until this problem gets fixed. It would be nice to have it fixed, since applications like blender get really slow without it... My hardware is a Creative 3D Blaster Banshee. The chip is 3Dfx Voodoo Banshee, PCI revision 3, part/serial/whatever number CT6760, 16 MB SDRAM on-board. It's attached to PCI (as you might have guessed). Because the freezes seem totally unpredictable (except of course that a GL application is running at the time of the freeze), I find this bug difficult to reproduce. I can reproduce it with XawTV, Ctrl-Alt-Grey+, and any DRI app which uses the VidMode extension. I can also do it with anything that creates shaped windows frequently (the OSD plugin for XMMS for example or some window manager themes) In short, it's really easy to get X to freeze. -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED]Free software developer Kethryvis Gruuk: UFies are above and beyond the human race :) pgpMJAwTF0O86.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
Alexander Hvostov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Package: mesag3-glide2 (debian/main) Maintainer: Marcelo E. Magallon [EMAIL PROTECTED] 74471 Open GL xscreensavers cause X to hang with 3DFX cards. I need help with this bug, I can't test this as I don't have TDFX hardware. For this reason, I've disabled DRI [...] Oh, I'm sorry, I should have said this more prominently: I need help reproducing this using the mesag3-glide2 package, not the DRI modules. Thanks, -- Marcelo
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: modes (which anyone who has seen me work in X knows I spend 30% of my time in 640x480 or lower due to unreadably small, aliased fonts in things like Netscape..) Just as a hint, Galeon let's you change the scaling of the fonts on a per page basis. -- Marcelo
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You simply CAN NOT use mesag3-glide2 on a V3 with X4, it won't work. Uhm. Why? (if I'm going to be maintaining this, I'd like to know why it doesn't work with a specific setup, in particular, I'd like to know if this is a bug in mesa or a bug in glide2) -- Marcelo
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:14:26PM +0100, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You simply CAN NOT use mesag3-glide2 on a V3 with X4, it won't work. Uhm. Why? (if I'm going to be maintaining this, I'd like to know why it doesn't work with a specific setup, in particular, I'd like to know if this is a bug in mesa or a bug in glide2) Neither. It's that the X server and Glide2 would have to cooperate in order to let you do it. As of XFree4, X no longer knows how to talk to Glide2, but does know how to talk to Glide3. Evil, eh? -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED]Free software developer Crow_ hmm, is there a --now-dammit option for exim? pgpj4kAUoJIWB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither. It's that the X server and Glide2 would have to cooperate in order to let you do it. As of XFree4, X no longer knows how to talk to Glide2, but does know how to talk to Glide3. Evil, eh? Then why does it work for V1 and V2? What you are saying sound like there's no DRM for glide2. Maybe the bit of info I'm missing is why would I want to use glide2 instead of glide3 if I have a V3? I remember vaguely something along the lines of all the V3s are equal, but some are more equal than others. Maybe I should go and buy myself a V1 or V2... -- Marcelo
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 08:08:16PM +0100, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Neither. It's that the X server and Glide2 would have to cooperate in order to let you do it. As of XFree4, X no longer knows how to talk to Glide2, but does know how to talk to Glide3. Evil, eh? Then why does it work for V1 and V2? What you are saying sound like there's no DRM for glide2. Maybe the bit of info I'm missing is why would I want to use glide2 instead of glide3 if I have a V3? I remember vaguely something along the lines of all the V3s are equal, but some are more equal than others. Maybe I should go and buy myself a V1 or V2... Ok, the design of the V3 chip is that if you try to talk to it about 3D while it is in the middle of doing 2D, or try to talk to it about 2D while it is doing 3D then you will have serious problems. (FWIW, almost all 2D/3D cards have the same.) Thus the 2D code must know that you are doing 3D on the card, X3 knew about glide2, and worked with it to avoid these problems. X4 no longer knows about glide2, it knows about the DRI, which means that trying to use mesa3-glide2 on a V3 with X4 will result in a disaster. You can use a V1 and V2 just fine with it under X4 because X4 does not need to know anything about them, they are purely 3D cards which just pass-through the VGA signal normally, this is why they don't natively do 3D in a window. I suppose it might be worth looking at the tdfx driver to see if I can get it to know about glide2 again, as last I looked mesa3-glide2 + X3 was faster then DRI + X4 on the V3 (though, this may change with the DRI CVS code, which I should have packaged soon.). Any questions? Zephaniah E. Hull. (Just waking up, so not as clear as I could be, sorry.) -- Marcelo -- PGP EA5198D1-Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]-GPG E65A7801 Keys available at http://whitestar.soark.net/~warp/public_keys. CCs of replies from mailing lists are encouraged. }No. I just point out to troublemakers that I have an English degree, }which means that I am allowed to make changes to the English language. }(What _else_ could it possibly be for?) }Wow; in that case, my physics degree is *WAY* more useful than I }had thought. This just proves how useless a computer science degree is: there is hardly any useful science involved at all. I want my computer black magic degree! -- Victoria Swann, Jonathan Dursi, and D. Joseph Creighton on ASR pgpCSJk3ssXcm.pgp Description: PGP signature
doogiebug resolved
On Thu, Mar 22, 2001 at 03:17:57AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: Two people have reported runtime linking errors with the latest XFree86 4 packages on i386. I cannot reproduce these. I am running my own latest versions of the packages, am using bleeding-edge Debian unstable -- updated today -- and have rebooted in an effort to reproduce the problem. No dice. My xdm and xterm refuse to break. This is resolved. Turns out my build environment (an unstable chroot) was busted, and I misinterpreted the output of ldd. I am now able to reproduce the bug. Fixed packages have been built, tested, are in incoming and should be dinstalled today. Thanks to those who helped, including BenC, who taught me the wonders of objdump --private-headers. I'm never going back to ambiguous old ldd. :-P -- G. Branden Robinson | Optimists believe we live in the best of Debian GNU/Linux| all possible worlds. Pessimists are [EMAIL PROTECTED] | afraid the optimists are right. http://www.debian.org/~branden/ | pgpZC66H8bnAC.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the glide driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. You can use a V1 and V2 just fine with it under X4 because X4 does not need to know anything about them, What it needs to know about them is provided by libglide2-dev. What X4 doesn't try to do with those old cards is 3D acceleration. -- G. Branden Robinson |It was a typical net.exercise -- a Debian GNU/Linux|screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot [EMAIL PROTECTED] |on the pavement, where used to lie the http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |carcass of a dead horse. pgpMP0GSMF3uL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:20:09PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the glide driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. More accurately, I should have said the X4 tdfx driver no longer knows anything about glide2. Sadly, it is very likely non-trivial to get the tdfx driver working with both glide2 and DRI source wise, let alone run time. Zephaniah E. Hull. -- G. Branden Robinson |It was a typical net.exercise -- a Debian GNU/Linux|screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot [EMAIL PROTECTED] |on the pavement, where used to lie the http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |carcass of a dead horse. -- PGP EA5198D1-Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]-GPG E65A7801 Keys available at http://whitestar.soark.net/~warp/public_keys. CCs of replies from mailing lists are encouraged. OK, fine. You're arguing semantics, though. arguing semantics is not the same as arguing nomenclature. My DI was very good at arguing semantics. He had this funny idea that an unloaded weapon was one that you had personally inspected and that the semantic difference mattered. Something about not wanting to do the paperwork of one of us killed someone with an unloaded weapon. Most technical debates are ultimately about semantics, but that doesn't mean that they are unimportant. -- Shmuel Metz and Steve Sobol on ASR. pgp9KvnAc4dIa.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:20:09PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the glide driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. You mean to say a Voodoo2 graphics card that is sold/marketed/used as a 3D only chipset, can be used under X4 as a '2D' card? With no other VESA/VGA card available? If that's true that's great, I have a V2 sitting here doing nothing, don't play many games under Linux -). But I could use it build another computer that's missing a graphics card, and use gdm/xdm/kdm to boot straight to X4? You can use a V1 and V2 just fine with it under X4 because X4 does not need to know anything about them, What it needs to know about them is provided by libglide2-dev. What X4 doesn't try to do with those old cards is 3D acceleration. If the above is true, could you provide some pointers? All the material I've been able to find about V2 is mostly 'how to get quake/doom/etc to run on your V2 card and linux'. Thanks Gordon Sadler
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, 24 Mar 2001 14:54:35 -0600 Gordon Sadler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 03:20:09PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:48:23PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: X4 no longer knows about glide2 That's not precisely true. xfree86 Build-Depends on libglide2-dev for a reason; to build the glide driver which gives you a *2D* X environment on Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 cards. You mean to say a Voodoo2 graphics card that is sold/marketed/used as a 3D only chipset, can be used under X4 as a '2D' card? With no other VESA/VGA card available? If that's true that's great, I have a V2 sitting here doing nothing, don't play many games under Linux -). But I could use it build another computer that's missing a graphics card, and use gdm/xdm/kdm to boot straight to X4? The Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo2 chips are designed mainly for 3D, but they are also capable of 2D. The reason that they aren't marketed for this is that their 2D performance is exceedingly slow (ie, unaccelerated) compared to cards that are actually designed to do 2D. The 2D capabilities of these cards is mainly intended for drawing in-game 2D displays, such as heads-up displays, status bars, etc. Use the `glide' driver in XFree86 4.x to use your Voodoo2 as the only video card. Regards, Alex.
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:54:35PM -0600, Gordon Sadler wrote: You mean to say a Voodoo2 graphics card that is sold/marketed/used as a 3D only chipset, can be used under X4 as a '2D' card? With no other VESA/VGA card available? If that's true that's great, I have a V2 sitting here doing nothing, don't play many games under Linux -). But I could use it build another computer that's missing a graphics card, and use gdm/xdm/kdm to boot straight to X4? As I understand it, the answer to the above questions is yes. I've never tried it myself, though. [...] If the above is true, could you provide some pointers? All the material I've been able to find about V2 is mostly 'how to get quake/doom/etc to run on your V2 card and linux'. Probably the most straightforward thing to do is configure the xserver-xfree86 package using the debconf interface. Just select the glide driver. If xserver-xfree86 is already installed on such a box, just do: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 Selection of the driver module will be a high priority question. -- G. Branden Robinson | Why do we have to hide from the police, Debian GNU/Linux| Daddy? [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Because we use vi, son. They use http://www.debian.org/~branden/ | emacs. pgp2JJh01z1Zx.pgp Description: PGP signature
CVS DRI packages.
I am currently about ready to start testing of .debs out of the DRI cvs tree. I have a rough naming scheme, and a list of exactly what files will to be overridden. My rough naming scheme is as follows: xlibmesa3-dri, xlibmesa-dri-dev, xlibosmesa3-dri, xlibosmesa-dri-dev, and xserver-dri. The 4 mesa packages are obvious, they will conflict, provide, and replace their counterparts[1]. Now, xserver-dri is a little less obvious, it depends on xserver-xfree86, but also needs to override 14 files[2] from it. Right now I'm undecided on how to do the override, calling dpkg-divert from the preinst and postrm would work, but seems to be more of a kludge. As soon as the name scheme is agreed on and we have figured out how to override those files I can start testing on the DRI packages. Zephaniah E. Hull. -- PGP EA5198D1-Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]-GPG E65A7801 Keys available at http://whitestar.soark.net/~warp/public_keys. CCs of replies from mailing lists are encouraged. Microsoft is a cross between the Borg and the Ferengi. Unfortunately, they use Borg to do their marketing and Ferengi to do their programming. -- Simon Slavin in asr pgpZ7nCAARj7R.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: CVS DRI packages.
Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My rough naming scheme is as follows: xlibmesa3-dri, xlibmesa-dri-dev, xlibosmesa3-dri, xlibosmesa-dri-dev, and xserver-dri. I would drop the xlibosmesa packages. libOSMesa is a software only client side off-screen rendering library. The 4 mesa packages are obvious, they will conflict, provide, and replace their counterparts[1]. You forgot the footnotes. Right now I'm undecided on how to do the override, calling dpkg-divert from the preinst and postrm would work, but seems to be more of a kludge. Is there other way? I actually think it's safer that way. -- Marcelo
Re: CVS DRI packages.
I'm sorry, I forgot one important bit. Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My rough naming scheme is as follows: xlibmesa3-dri, xlibmesa-dri-dev, xlibosmesa3-dri, xlibosmesa-dri-dev, and xserver-dri. You might want to provide xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/os-support/linux/drm/kernel (or whatever the actual path is), as every now and then the DRM modules in the kernel get out of sync with the ones in CVS. -- Marcelo
Re: CVS DRI packages.
On Sun, Mar 25, 2001 at 05:10:47AM +0200, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My rough naming scheme is as follows: xlibmesa3-dri, xlibmesa-dri-dev, xlibosmesa3-dri, xlibosmesa-dri-dev, and xserver-dri. I would drop the xlibosmesa packages. libOSMesa is a software only client side off-screen rendering library. The 4 mesa packages are obvious, they will conflict, provide, and replace their counterparts[1]. You forgot the footnotes. Ahh, yes, my mistake. 1: Just s/-dri//g to get their counterparts. 2: I'll append the list to the bottom of this message. Right now I'm undecided on how to do the override, calling dpkg-divert from the preinst and postrm would work, but seems to be more of a kludge. Is there other way? I actually think it's safer that way. Using alternatives might work, but Branden would have to very explicitly support that. It might be possible to get X to search a different module path first, but all examples of that turn out to be very ugly in the config file, I'll keep poking. Hopefully Branden will have some ideas. Zephaniah E. Hull. -- Marcelo usr/X11R6/bin/XFree86 usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/ati_drv.o usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/atimisc_drv.o usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/glint_drv.o usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/i810_drv.o usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/mga_drv.o usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/r128_drv.o usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/radeon_drv.o usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/tdfx_drv.o usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/vga_drv.o usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libGLcore.a usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libdri.a usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libglx.a usr/X11R6/lib/modules/linux/libdrm.a -- PGP EA5198D1-Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]-GPG E65A7801 Keys available at http://whitestar.soark.net/~warp/public_keys. CCs of replies from mailing lists are encouraged. aj ``Who killed the server at the colo site?'' ``Weasel killed the server at the colo site'' ``Not me'' ``Then who?'' ``m2 killed the server at the colo site'' ... pgpwUoS2QGZjN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: CVS DRI packages.
Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It might be possible to get X to search a different module path first, but all examples of that turn out to be very ugly in the config file, I'll keep poking. Ah, yes, that's actually cleaner. For the X server, you could change the symlink in /etc/X11/X, given there's a nice debconf interface and all that. -- Marcelo
Re: CVS DRI packages.
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 09:00:51PM -0500, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote: The 4 mesa packages are obvious, they will conflict, provide, and replace their counterparts[1]. Now, xserver-dri is a little less obvious, it depends on xserver-xfree86, but also needs to override 14 files[2] from it. I see superscripts but no footnotes. -- G. Branden Robinson |Never underestimate the power of human Debian GNU/Linux|stupidity. [EMAIL PROTECTED] |-- Robert Heinlein http://www.debian.org/~branden/ | pgpJahqwQJnd1.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help needed, TDFX [Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 23, 2001]
On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 08:08:16PM +0100, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: Neither. It's that the X server and Glide2 would have to cooperate in order to let you do it. As of XFree4, X no longer knows how to talk to Glide2, but does know how to talk to Glide3. Evil, eh? Then why does it work for V1 and V2? Because the V1 and V2 are not otherwise handled at all by X. What you are saying sound like there's no DRM for glide2. Maybe the bit of info I'm missing is why would I want to use glide2 instead of glide3 if I have a V3? I remember vaguely something along the lines of all the V3s are equal, but some are more equal than others. Maybe I should go and buy myself a V1 or V2... The V3 runs faster and more stably with Glide2 and XFree3 than Glide3 and XFree4. Branden would have to make frequent uploads of CVS versions to keep DRI in top shape. Given that DRI in the current packages is the only thing that the current X configuration stuff doesn't do for you (in fact it's rather hostile toward it - I suspect Branden hasn't figured out the gritty details of DRI yet due to time or indifference. If you have a 3dfx card, you probably should be using CVS DRI, which can be made not too painful (but will uglify your XF86Config-4 file a bit..) -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED]Free software developer doogie dpkg has bugs? no way! pgpzr760U9GeX.pgp Description: PGP signature
