Bug#197154: Subject: It will be more convenient if xutils.postinst setups the font directories
On 12.VI.2003 at 14:53 Branden Robinson wrote: On Thu, Jun 12, 2003 at 06:31:32PM +0300, Anton Zinoviev wrote: Thats why packages providing Type1 fonts (as gsfonts and scalable-cyrfonts) have to be doubled -- one version for defoma and another for X. I do not understand why this is so. Your conclusion seems hasty, and does not follow from the sole identified premise. If xutils cares to setup the font directories properly there will be no need to double these font packages. There can be only one version which depends on defoma and invokes update-fonts-* _only if_ these commands are installed. In that case if xutils gets installed latter it cares to setup the font directories. In general, a package in Debian is expected to do everything necessary in its maintainer scripts to ensure that it is usable as intended once it is marked configured. Type1 fonts can be usable without X. One example is a print server which uses ghostscript. Defoma provides ghostscript with fonts. Another example can be TeX. The font packages only provide fonts and they should not depend on particular font consumers. If some software wants to use fonts it has to get them from Defoma (as ghostscript) or directly (as X and fontconfig). Otherwise the font packages would have to depend on all font consumers that don't support Defoma. Your proposal would undermine that. Font packages could be installed but not usable, They are usable by all software that wants to use them. or all font packages would have to Pre-Depend on xutils. Actually, that wouldn't do it, either. A trigger mechanism to tell xutils to run its postinst script again would be necessary. I am not sure I understand well this. But I see that I haven't explained well something. Consider the following case -- the package gsfonts is installed first, then comes xutils and lastly t1-teams. We have the following scenario: 1. The postinst of gsfonts sees that there is no update-fonts-dir and does nothing. 2. The postinst of xutils configures the font directories for packages that are installed before it (gsfonts in our case). 3. The package t1-teams adds new fonts. Its postinst sees that there are update-fonts-* scripts already and reconfigures the Type1 font directory. Packages need to ensure that they get themselves into a usable, configured state. They can't count on some other package's postinst script to do it for them. For a font package to be in a usable, configured state, one thing is enough: its postinst to register the fonts with Defoma. For Type1 fonts we need more -- to configure the X font directories, but X is able to afford this only because it is so important. Also, I do not see why you consider removing a dependency on xutils to be so important. It is not important, it is only desirable. xbase-clients (with their xftcache) and fontconfig are not much different to xutils with respect to the font packages. Hopefully the maintainer of fontconfig is willing to add support for Defoma, so there will be no need to depend on fontconfig also. It is also possible to add in xutils (or in some other X package) a support for Defoma, but what I propose is a simpler solution. Anton Zinoviev -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#197154: Subject: It will be more convenient if xutils.postinst setups the font directories
On 13.VI2003 at 11:48 Branden Robinson wrote: I am unhappy with defoma. Me too. I discovered that I am not able to remove some fonts from my packages. This is a design flaw, though it can be fixed. But I am not very embarassed about Defoma because I feel that I if some problem of Defoma starts to bother me too much, I will be forced not to be lazy and fix it. :) Hopefully its new maintainer will work with me / persuade me to see whatever light I'm supposed to be seeing. Defoma tries to be universal and possibly this is what makes it so complex. It can generate authomaticaly fonts.scale and fonts.alias for X, declare fonts and PS-name aliases for Ghostscript. I even managed to create a package defoma-tex that is able to make Type1 fonts available for TeX. (But then I realised that no one will use it -- gsfonts are internaly supported by TeX, for my packages I decided to use a different way and xfonts-scalable doesn't support Defoma.) Anton Zinoviev -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#197154: Subject: It will be more convenient if xutils.postinst setups the font directories
On 12.VI.2003 at 14:53 Branden Robinson wrote: On Thu, Jun 12, 2003 at 06:31:32PM +0300, Anton Zinoviev wrote: Thats why packages providing Type1 fonts (as gsfonts and scalable-cyrfonts) have to be doubled -- one version for defoma and another for X. I do not understand why this is so. Your conclusion seems hasty, and does not follow from the sole identified premise. If xutils cares to setup the font directories properly there will be no need to double these font packages. There can be only one version which depends on defoma and invokes update-fonts-* _only if_ these commands are installed. In that case if xutils gets installed latter it cares to setup the font directories. In general, a package in Debian is expected to do everything necessary in its maintainer scripts to ensure that it is usable as intended once it is marked configured. Type1 fonts can be usable without X. One example is a print server which uses ghostscript. Defoma provides ghostscript with fonts. Another example can be TeX. The font packages only provide fonts and they should not depend on particular font consumers. If some software wants to use fonts it has to get them from Defoma (as ghostscript) or directly (as X and fontconfig). Otherwise the font packages would have to depend on all font consumers that don't support Defoma. Your proposal would undermine that. Font packages could be installed but not usable, They are usable by all software that wants to use them. or all font packages would have to Pre-Depend on xutils. Actually, that wouldn't do it, either. A trigger mechanism to tell xutils to run its postinst script again would be necessary. I am not sure I understand well this. But I see that I haven't explained well something. Consider the following case -- the package gsfonts is installed first, then comes xutils and lastly t1-teams. We have the following scenario: 1. The postinst of gsfonts sees that there is no update-fonts-dir and does nothing. 2. The postinst of xutils configures the font directories for packages that are installed before it (gsfonts in our case). 3. The package t1-teams adds new fonts. Its postinst sees that there are update-fonts-* scripts already and reconfigures the Type1 font directory. Packages need to ensure that they get themselves into a usable, configured state. They can't count on some other package's postinst script to do it for them. For a font package to be in a usable, configured state, one thing is enough: its postinst to register the fonts with Defoma. For Type1 fonts we need more -- to configure the X font directories, but X is able to afford this only because it is so important. Also, I do not see why you consider removing a dependency on xutils to be so important. It is not important, it is only desirable. xbase-clients (with their xftcache) and fontconfig are not much different to xutils with respect to the font packages. Hopefully the maintainer of fontconfig is willing to add support for Defoma, so there will be no need to depend on fontconfig also. It is also possible to add in xutils (or in some other X package) a support for Defoma, but what I propose is a simpler solution. Anton Zinoviev
Bug#197154: Subject: It will be more convenient if xutils.postinst setups the font directories
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 02:02:37PM +0300, Anton Zinoviev wrote: Type1 fonts can be usable without X. One example is a print server which uses ghostscript. Defoma provides ghostscript with fonts. Another example can be TeX. The font packages only provide fonts and they should not depend on particular font consumers. If some software wants to use fonts it has to get them from Defoma (as ghostscript) or directly (as X and fontconfig). Otherwise the font packages would have to depend on all font consumers that don't support Defoma. I think Type1 font packages should assume they're going to be used both for printing and by X clients, but should not fail to configure if the commands that register them with the relevant pieces of infrastructure are not available. Your proposal would undermine that. Font packages could be installed but not usable, They are usable by all software that wants to use them. Only if the software knows where they are, and appropriate files/registries have been updated. For a font package to be in a usable, configured state, one thing is enough: its postinst to register the fonts with Defoma. I am unhappy with defoma. Hopefully its new maintainer will work with me / persuade me to see whatever light I'm supposed to be seeing. It is not important, it is only desirable. xbase-clients (with their xftcache) and fontconfig are not much different to xutils with respect to the font packages. Hopefully the maintainer of fontconfig is willing to add support for Defoma, so there will be no need to depend on fontconfig also. It is also possible to add in xutils (or in some other X package) a support for Defoma, but what I propose is a simpler solution. Well, xbase-clients is about to get busted into a bunch of pieces, and in 4.3.0 probably will not even ship xftcache. xutils will probably continue to ship utilities that manage X font directories, though. Juliusz Chroboczek has done some work on X's font-cataloging tools recently in the X Strike Force Subversion repository. -- G. Branden Robinson| It just seems to me that you are Debian GNU/Linux | willfully entering an arse-kicking [EMAIL PROTECTED] | contest with a monstrous entity http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | that has sixteen legs and no arse. pgplEQe1aTge2.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#197154: Subject: It will be more convenient if xutils.postinst setups the font directories
Package: xutils
Severity: wishlist
Now all font packages depend on xutils and invoke
update-fonts-{dirs,alias,scale} by themselves. Thats why packages
providing Type1 fonts (as gsfonts and scalable-cyrfonts) have to be
doubled -- one version for defoma and another for X. If xutils cares
to setup the font directories properly there will be no need to double
these font packages. There can be only one version which depends on
defoma and invokes update-fonts-* _only if_ these commands are
installed. In that case if xutils gets installed latter it cares to
setup the font directories.
I decided to split scalable-cyrfonts as type1-cyrillic, type1-teams
and type1-oldslavic. For now these packages depend on xutils but it
would be nice if I could remove this dependency.
Anton Zinoviev
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Processed: Re: Bug#197154: Subject: It will be more convenient if xutils.postinst setups the font directories
Processing commands for [EMAIL PROTECTED]: retitle 197154 xutils: want postinst script to walk all font directories Bug#197154: Subject: It will be more convenient if xutils.postinst setups the font directories Changed Bug title. tag 197154 + moreinfo Bug#197154: xutils: want postinst script to walk all font directories There were no tags set. Tags added: moreinfo thanks Stopping processing here. Please contact me if you need assistance. Debian bug tracking system administrator (administrator, Debian Bugs database) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#197154: Subject: It will be more convenient if xutils.postinst setups the font directories
retitle 197154 xutils: want postinst script to walk all font directories
tag 197154 + moreinfo
thanks
On Thu, Jun 12, 2003 at 06:31:32PM +0300, Anton Zinoviev wrote:
Now all font packages depend on xutils and invoke
update-fonts-{dirs,alias,scale} by themselves.
Yes.
Thats why packages providing Type1 fonts (as gsfonts and
scalable-cyrfonts) have to be doubled -- one version for defoma and
another for X.
I do not understand why this is so. Your conclusion seems hasty, and
does not follow from the sole identified premise.
If xutils cares to setup the font directories properly there will be
no need to double these font packages. There can be only one version
which depends on defoma and invokes update-fonts-* _only if_ these
commands are installed. In that case if xutils gets installed latter
it cares to setup the font directories.
In general, a package in Debian is expected to do everything necessary
in its maintainer scripts to ensure that it is usable as intended once
it is marked configured.
Your proposal would undermine that. Font packages could be installed
but not usable, or all font packages would have to Pre-Depend on xutils.
Actually, that wouldn't do it, either. A trigger mechanism to tell
xutils to run its postinst script again would be necessary.
I decided to split scalable-cyrfonts as type1-cyrillic, type1-teams
and type1-oldslavic. For now these packages depend on xutils but it
would be nice if I could remove this dependency.
Unless you can provide me with a more persuasive case I'm going to
reject this request. Packages need to ensure that they get themselves
into a usable, configured state. They can't count on some other
package's postinst script to do it for them.
Also, I do not see why you consider removing a dependency on xutils to
be so important.
--
G. Branden Robinson|People are equally horrified at
Debian GNU/Linux |hearing the Christian religion
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |doubted, and at seeing it
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |practiced. -- Samuel Butler
pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Bug#197154: Subject: It will be more convenient if xutils.postinst setups the font directories
retitle 197154 xutils: want postinst script to walk all font directories
tag 197154 + moreinfo
thanks
On Thu, Jun 12, 2003 at 06:31:32PM +0300, Anton Zinoviev wrote:
Now all font packages depend on xutils and invoke
update-fonts-{dirs,alias,scale} by themselves.
Yes.
Thats why packages providing Type1 fonts (as gsfonts and
scalable-cyrfonts) have to be doubled -- one version for defoma and
another for X.
I do not understand why this is so. Your conclusion seems hasty, and
does not follow from the sole identified premise.
If xutils cares to setup the font directories properly there will be
no need to double these font packages. There can be only one version
which depends on defoma and invokes update-fonts-* _only if_ these
commands are installed. In that case if xutils gets installed latter
it cares to setup the font directories.
In general, a package in Debian is expected to do everything necessary
in its maintainer scripts to ensure that it is usable as intended once
it is marked configured.
Your proposal would undermine that. Font packages could be installed
but not usable, or all font packages would have to Pre-Depend on xutils.
Actually, that wouldn't do it, either. A trigger mechanism to tell
xutils to run its postinst script again would be necessary.
I decided to split scalable-cyrfonts as type1-cyrillic, type1-teams
and type1-oldslavic. For now these packages depend on xutils but it
would be nice if I could remove this dependency.
Unless you can provide me with a more persuasive case I'm going to
reject this request. Packages need to ensure that they get themselves
into a usable, configured state. They can't count on some other
package's postinst script to do it for them.
Also, I do not see why you consider removing a dependency on xutils to
be so important.
--
G. Branden Robinson|People are equally horrified at
Debian GNU/Linux |hearing the Christian religion
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |doubted, and at seeing it
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |practiced. -- Samuel Butler
pgpJk5Nb5NUle.pgp
Description: PGP signature
