Re: /etc/X11/Xmodmap re-revisited
On Thu, 2 Mar 2000, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote: > PReP takes a PS/2 keyboard > PowerMac takes an ADB keyboard > CHRP takes a PS/2 or ADB keyboard > APUS takes an Amiga keyboard And some PowerMac clones (those made by Power Computing) can also use PS/2 keyboards.
Re: /etc/X11/Xmodmap re-revisited
On Thu, Mar 02, 2000 at 01:36:07PM +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote: > On Thu, 2 Mar 2000, Sven LUTHER wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 06:00:16PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: > > > [debian-x: I'm following up a thread on -powerpc] > > > > > > Actually, I've decided to do the sensible (?) thing and identify the > > > keycodes by keyboard model rather than the machine architecture. One way > > > or another you can probably manage to plug a PC keyboard into just about > > > anything, so it doesn't make much sense to refer to it as an "i386" > > > keyboard. > > > > If i remmeber well, you can buy a PC keyboard to amiga keyboard connecter, > > that will let you use any "PC" keyboard as if it were an amiga keyboard, > > transparently. > > But it behaves like an Amiga keyboard! yes, that is waht i meant that it can be used as an amiga keyboard transparently, but then maybe i was not clear enough ... Friendly, Sven LUTHER
Re: /etc/X11/Xmodmap re-revisited
On Thu, 2 Mar 2000, Sven LUTHER wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 06:00:16PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > [debian-x: I'm following up a thread on -powerpc]
> >
> > Actually, I've decided to do the sensible (?) thing and identify the
> > keycodes by keyboard model rather than the machine architecture. One way
> > or another you can probably manage to plug a PC keyboard into just about
> > anything, so it doesn't make much sense to refer to it as an "i386"
> > keyboard.
>
> If i remmeber well, you can buy a PC keyboard to amiga keyboard connecter,
> that will let you use any "PC" keyboard as if it were an amiga keyboard,
> transparently.
But it behaves like an Amiga keyboard!
Gr{oetje,eeting}s,
Geert
--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- Linux/{m68k~Amiga,PPC~CHRP} -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
-- Linus Torvalds
Re: /etc/X11/Xmodmap re-revisited
On Thu, Mar 02, 2000 at 12:38:09PM +0100, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote: > > If you use XF68_FBDev with XKB disabled, it will ask the kernel for the > mapping > keycode/keysym, and it'll work automagically with whatever type of keyboard > you > have. So user space programs do not have to know about a specific keycode > mapping. Talking about that, ... i have reinstalled X lastly on my APUS box, taken the XF68Config.eg file that comes with the fbdve server packages, and esc and delete don't work on my box. What is the easiest way to fix that, or where to look for this info. (suppose i don't know wnything about debian/unix/X etc ...) Friendly, Sven LUTHER
Re: /etc/X11/Xmodmap re-revisited
On Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 06:00:16PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: > [debian-x: I'm following up a thread on -powerpc] > > Actually, I've decided to do the sensible (?) thing and identify the > keycodes by keyboard model rather than the machine architecture. One way > or another you can probably manage to plug a PC keyboard into just about > anything, so it doesn't make much sense to refer to it as an "i386" > keyboard. If i remmeber well, you can buy a PC keyboard to amiga keyboard connecter, that will let you use any "PC" keyboard as if it were an amiga keyboard, transparently. Friendly, Sven LUTHER
Re: /etc/X11/Xmodmap re-revisited
On Thu, 2 Mar 2000, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 2, 2000, Geert Uytterhoeven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> I'll see with the maintainer if this can be changed to simply use PC
> >> keycodes all the time on all archs _except_ when we are running on a
> >> PowerMac (and this will be checked at runtime and not compile time).
> >
> >No!!! Been there, done that (for Amiga keyboards). Keycode conversion is
> evil.
> >I can dig up this 1995-discussion on linux-m68k if you're interested.
>
> The keycode conversion is already there and too many things rely on macs
> having ADB keycodes already.
>
> Also, the current USB driver is bogus because it simply won't compile if
> you are not on a i386 or you don't have the CONFIG_MAC_KEYBOARD defined.
> The ADB keycode conversion is currently always done when it's defined.
>
> So we need to have this fixed in a way or another. My idea is basically
> to extend the mecanism used for x86 to all archs instead of just failing
> compile, and leave the exceptional conversion to ADB keycodes for
> powermacs, but instead of making it a compile time option, make it a
> _runtime_ option so that the common CHRP/PREP/PMAC kernel won't try to do
> ADB keycodes on non-pmac machines.
So what are you gonna do on my box when I install a PCI USB adapter? Then I
can have PS/2, ADB and USB keyboards.
If you use XF68_FBDev with XKB disabled, it will ask the kernel for the mapping
keycode/keysym, and it'll work automagically with whatever type of keyboard you
have. So user space programs do not have to know about a specific keycode
mapping.
Gr{oetje,eeting}s,
Geert
--
Geert Uytterhoeven - Sony Software Development Center Europe (SDCE)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Sint-Stevens-Woluwestraat 55
Voice +32-2-7248638 Fax +32-2-7262686 B-1130 Brussels, Belgium
Re: /etc/X11/Xmodmap re-revisited
On Thu, Mar 2, 2000, Geert Uytterhoeven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I'll see with the maintainer if this can be changed to simply use PC >> keycodes all the time on all archs _except_ when we are running on a >> PowerMac (and this will be checked at runtime and not compile time). > >No!!! Been there, done that (for Amiga keyboards). Keycode conversion is evil. >I can dig up this 1995-discussion on linux-m68k if you're interested. The keycode conversion is already there and too many things rely on macs having ADB keycodes already. Also, the current USB driver is bogus because it simply won't compile if you are not on a i386 or you don't have the CONFIG_MAC_KEYBOARD defined. The ADB keycode conversion is currently always done when it's defined. So we need to have this fixed in a way or another. My idea is basically to extend the mecanism used for x86 to all archs instead of just failing compile, and leave the exceptional conversion to ADB keycodes for powermacs, but instead of making it a compile time option, make it a _runtime_ option so that the common CHRP/PREP/PMAC kernel won't try to do ADB keycodes on non-pmac machines.
Re: /etc/X11/Xmodmap re-revisited
On Thu, 2 Mar 2000, BenH wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2000, Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Actually, I've decided to do the sensible (?) thing and identify the
> >keycodes by keyboard model rather than the machine architecture. One way
> >or another you can probably manage to plug a PC keyboard into just about
> >anything, so it doesn't make much sense to refer to it as an "i386"
> >keyboard.
> >
> >Comments? Suggestions?
>
> The last time I looked at the USB keyboard driver, it was broken enough
> to prevent you from doing that.
>
> basically, it will either convert the keycodes to PC keycodes if you are
> compiling for i386, or to ADB keycodes if CONFIG_MAC_KEYBOARD is defined,
> or will just not compile if neither of them is defined.
>
> I'll see with the maintainer if this can be changed to simply use PC
> keycodes all the time on all archs _except_ when we are running on a
> PowerMac (and this will be checked at runtime and not compile time).
No!!! Been there, done that (for Amiga keyboards). Keycode conversion is evil.
I can dig up this 1995-discussion on linux-m68k if you're interested.
Gr{oetje,eeting}s,
Geert
--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- Linux/{m68k~Amiga,PPC~CHRP} -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
-- Linus Torvalds
Re: /etc/X11/Xmodmap re-revisited
On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Tom Rini wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 06:00:16PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > [debian-x: I'm following up a thread on -powerpc]
> >
> > Actually, I've decided to do the sensible (?) thing and identify the
> > keycodes by keyboard model rather than the machine architecture. One way
> > or another you can probably manage to plug a PC keyboard into just about
> > anything, so it doesn't make much sense to refer to it as an "i386"
> > keyboard.
>
> Right, but the important question is will it still be a "PC" keyboard?
It's a PS/2 keyboard (or PC/AT).
> If the "PC" keyboard goes in via USB, it's either a "PC" keyboard on x86,
> an "ADB" keyboard on PPC, or Non-existant on other arches (tho I suspect
> a similar translation-style to other arches). As for the few models of PPC
Yuk.
> hardware which can take a PS/2 style keyboard directly, I _think_ they do
> stay the same, keycode wise.
>
> So, my point, and I think there was one in there, is to be careful how you
> label 'em. It's only the type of keyboard it says, if it's not being adapted
> somehow.
PReP takes a PS/2 keyboard
PowerMac takes an ADB keyboard
CHRP takes a PS/2 or ADB keyboard
APUS takes an Amiga keyboard
and USB is something special...
Gr{oetje,eeting}s,
Geert
--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- Linux/{m68k~Amiga,PPC~CHRP} -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
-- Linus Torvalds
Re: /etc/X11/Xmodmap re-revisited
On Wed, Mar 1, 2000, Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Actually, I've decided to do the sensible (?) thing and identify the >keycodes by keyboard model rather than the machine architecture. One way >or another you can probably manage to plug a PC keyboard into just about >anything, so it doesn't make much sense to refer to it as an "i386" >keyboard. > >Comments? Suggestions? The last time I looked at the USB keyboard driver, it was broken enough to prevent you from doing that. basically, it will either convert the keycodes to PC keycodes if you are compiling for i386, or to ADB keycodes if CONFIG_MAC_KEYBOARD is defined, or will just not compile if neither of them is defined. I'll see with the maintainer if this can be changed to simply use PC keycodes all the time on all archs _except_ when we are running on a PowerMac (and this will be checked at runtime and not compile time).
Re: /etc/X11/Xmodmap re-revisited
On Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 06:00:16PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: > [debian-x: I'm following up a thread on -powerpc] > > Actually, I've decided to do the sensible (?) thing and identify the > keycodes by keyboard model rather than the machine architecture. One way > or another you can probably manage to plug a PC keyboard into just about > anything, so it doesn't make much sense to refer to it as an "i386" > keyboard. Right, but the important question is will it still be a "PC" keyboard? If the "PC" keyboard goes in via USB, it's either a "PC" keyboard on x86, an "ADB" keyboard on PPC, or Non-existant on other arches (tho I suspect a similar translation-style to other arches). As for the few models of PPC hardware which can take a PS/2 style keyboard directly, I _think_ they do stay the same, keycode wise. So, my point, and I think there was one in there, is to be careful how you label 'em. It's only the type of keyboard it says, if it's not being adapted somehow. --- Tom Rini (TR1265) http://gate.crashing.org/~trini/ pgphpl8VaFZwH.pgp Description: PGP signature
