Re: bug administratif... (administrativ bug found...)
On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 12:43:31PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > On Thursday 08 September 2005 10:22, Sven Luther wrote: > > It is well possible that a similar detection problem is present in the > > XFree86 package, and the fact that it works fine in ubuntu is probably > > due to them using X.org, where this bug is absent. > > Another possible reason for differences is that Ubuntu Hoary uses a > different kernel (2.6.10 IIRC) than Sarge (2.6.8). Also hotplug in the installer rather than discover, which could easily make a difference to hardware detection (and shifts more of the burden to the kernel, so kernel versions are more likely to make a difference to what hardware is detected). I've contributed that code from Ubuntu back to d-i so that it can be enabled by building the initrd in a different way, but I can't make the decision for Debian on whether to use discover or hotplug. This makes it quite difficult for me to deal with mails that say "Ubuntu can detect this but Debian can't; why haven't you contributed these improvements?", because in many cases there's little more I can do. (It's true that I didn't manage to get the hotplug stuff into d-i before sarge released, though. Mea culpa.) Cheers, -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bug administratif... (administrativ bug found...)
On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 12:43:31PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > On Thursday 08 September 2005 10:22, Sven Luther wrote: > > It is well possible that a similar detection problem is present in the > > XFree86 package, and the fact that it works fine in ubuntu is probably > > due to them using X.org, where this bug is absent. > > Another possible reason for differences is that Ubuntu Hoary uses a > different kernel (2.6.10 IIRC) than Sarge (2.6.8). No chance it could affect X and the graphic card detection though. Just terminally broken X configuration stuff, and we all knew this was the case well in advance of the release and chose to do nothing about it. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bug administratif... (administrativ bug found...)
On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 01:14:33PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > On Thursday 08 September 2005 12:22, Daniel Stone wrote: > > debian-installer does not use any version of discover in any way, shape > > or form. Perhaps you were thinking of hotplug? > > Hmm. D-I most certainly _does_ use discover1 and not hotplug. > AFAIK, the Ubuntu installer does not use discover during the 1st stage of > installation, but Debian's d-i does. it does in ubuntu though. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bug administratif... (administrativ bug found...)
On Thu, 2005-09-08 at 13:14 +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > On Thursday 08 September 2005 12:22, Daniel Stone wrote: > > debian-installer does not use any version of discover in any way, shape > > or form. Perhaps you were thinking of hotplug? > > Hmm. D-I most certainly _does_ use discover1 and not hotplug. > AFAIK, the Ubuntu installer does not use discover during the 1st stage of > installation, but Debian's d-i does. Okay, I thought this wa sa change that had gone up to Debian, too. Sorry for the fuss. Cheers, Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bug administratif... (administrativ bug found...)
On Thursday 08 September 2005 12:22, Daniel Stone wrote: > debian-installer does not use any version of discover in any way, shape > or form. Perhaps you were thinking of hotplug? Hmm. D-I most certainly _does_ use discover1 and not hotplug. AFAIK, the Ubuntu installer does not use discover during the 1st stage of installation, but Debian's d-i does. pgpGtdoQgZ8Ii.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: bug administratif... (administrativ bug found...)
On Thursday 08 September 2005 10:22, Sven Luther wrote: > It is well possible that a similar detection problem is present in the > XFree86 package, and the fact that it works fine in ubuntu is probably > due to them using X.org, where this bug is absent. Another possible reason for differences is that Ubuntu Hoary uses a different kernel (2.6.10 IIRC) than Sarge (2.6.8). pgprwZQCARd31.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: bug administratif... (administrativ bug found...)
On Thu, 2005-09-08 at 10:22 +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 01:52:47AM -0500, Branden Robinson / Debian Project
> Leader wrote:
> > The Debian Sarge release uses a program called "discover1" to discern what
> > hardware is on the system, so I would encourage you to file a bug report
> > against that package describing your problem.
> >
> > Ubuntu and Debian both use the same installer (debian-installer), which in
> > turn uses discover1, so I am not sure why your hardware was detected on one
> > but not the other. Perhaps Ubuntu has made additions to the discover
> > hardware database (in the discover-data package) that they haven't
> > contributed back yet, or which Debian did not get included in the package
> > in time for a sarge release.
debian-installer does not use any version of discover in any way, shape
or form. Perhaps you were thinking of hotplug?
In any case, the maintainer scripts, which you authored originally
(xserver-xorg.{config,postinst}), do call discover if they can. In
Ubuntu's case, they call discover1, which uses the dataset from
discover1-data (as distinct from discover-data, which is only used by
version 2 of discover -- which is not used in either Ubuntu or Debian by
default, to my knowledge). Ubuntu's version of discover1-data has
indeed been pretty heavily augmented to properly deal with new video
cards. But the original database was reasonably solid as regards old
entries, so we haven't really changed anything there.
I think you've sent the submitter chasing a red herring on this one.
> I think from past experience, that this has nothing to do with the installer,
> since the only time the graphic card is of interest is during the xfree86
> configuration, and i have had similar experience with the ati wrapper not
> recognizing my radeon 9200SE cards due to them matching the second head. I
> don't rememebr the bug report about this out of hand, but it is over a year
> old or so, and was never fixed.
>
> It is well possible that a similar detection problem is present in the XFree86
> package, and the fact that it works fine in ubuntu is probably due to them
> using X.org, where this bug is absent.
>
> So, the bug is an xfree86 bug, and thus CCing debian-x.
Yes, Sven is mostly right here.
If you're using a Mach64/atimisc card, then there are no problems with
the ati module handing off properly, despite the similar problems that
continue to plague Radeon/radeon users with the ati module being forced
upon them.
Likely, the problem stems from myriad other problems with the X
configuration that have been fixed in Ubuntu, to the point where it is
extremely rare to see a site with custom X configurations for Ubuntu,
because it almost always works out of the box. I dare suggest that,
with the import of Ubuntu's xorg packages into Debian, that this problem
is resolved within Debian already (also with Otavio Salvador's import of
the Ubuntu 'xresprobe' tool, which does a pretty sterling job of working
things out).
So, in summary:
* not discover1, nor discover(1)-data;
* not the ati wrapper in the XFree86/Xorg DDX, problematic though it
is;
* but the configuration from the server's maintainer scripts.
Hope that helps,
Daniel
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Re: bug administratif... (administrativ bug found...)
On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 01:52:47AM -0500, Branden Robinson / Debian Project Leader wrote: > On Fri, Sep 02, 2005 at 12:39:16AM -0500, kristian david wrote: > > Hi =o) > > > > I'm administratively a "NONAME" guy (homeless because of a > > "Microcephaleous Gates" that is a kind of New-Digital-Nazi of the > > world... with his friend Ballmy-the-monkey-dancer), and I love realy this > > new "Sarge" release of your Debian, but I've found a real BAD BIG BUG... > > > > I tryed many time to install alternatively Debian/Sarge and Ubuntu Hoary > > (based on your Debian) In facts: I install Debian on a iMac/G3, and > > try... (only in mode console X11 does'nt work), and I trash all and > > install Ubuntu Hoary on the same Hardware (only the Network is not > > detected), and i re-trash all (because I use Ubuntu just to understand > > how X11 is configured... LOL), and i re-re-trash all Ubuntu, and > > re-install Debian etc... and so on (ad lib) (like a Whitehouse > > lyrics - Peter Sotos, Philip Best, and William Bennet...) > > > > So, I've finally found the BUG... > > > > Ubuntu recognize all my iMac G3 except the Network, but easy to fix with > > GNOME/interface... and your EXCELLENT Debian (I mean it) dont recognize > > my Hardware (specialy the screen ATY Rage 128MB...) but Network is good, > > and all the Server Parts (applications) are OK... > > > > So the bug is ADMINISTRATIVE: > > > > WHY, You dont collaborate between the staff of Ubuntu (and reciprocally) > > to complete the EXCELLENT Debian i love so ? > > > > That's a big question. > > > > A old man, homeless (this is true) in french we tell a man like me: "Un > > Clochard" or "Un Clodo" in a familiar way... > > > > best regards, and apologize for my bad english. (i'm in the french part > > of Switzerland) > > > > Realy I love your system !!! I mean it. > > Thank you very much for your positive feedback and reasoned criticism. > > The simple fact is that Ubuntu and Debian do tend to cooperate closely on > most technical issues. But each distribution does some things better than > the other, as is generally true when comparing any two GNU/Linux > distributions. > > The Debian Sarge release uses a program called "discover1" to discern what > hardware is on the system, so I would encourage you to file a bug report > against that package describing your problem. > > Ubuntu and Debian both use the same installer (debian-installer), which in > turn uses discover1, so I am not sure why your hardware was detected on one > but not the other. Perhaps Ubuntu has made additions to the discover > hardware database (in the discover-data package) that they haven't > contributed back yet, or which Debian did not get included in the package > in time for a sarge release. Hi Branden, ... I think from past experience, that this has nothing to do with the installer, since the only time the graphic card is of interest is during the xfree86 configuration, and i have had similar experience with the ati wrapper not recognizing my radeon 9200SE cards due to them matching the second head. I don't rememebr the bug report about this out of hand, but it is over a year old or so, and was never fixed. It is well possible that a similar detection problem is present in the XFree86 package, and the fact that it works fine in ubuntu is probably due to them using X.org, where this bug is absent. So, the bug is an xfree86 bug, and thus CCing debian-x. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
