Re: Why use a font server?
While everything that Branden has said is true, I feel that I should also present the other side of the story. Both the font server and the X server will keep a copy of all the currently open fonts. Thus, using a font server will double the amount of memory you're devoting to fonts. In a default configuration (not using -deferglyphs), the X server will request a full copy of the font from the font server at font open time. Thus, use of an X server will defeat a number of optimisations included in the XFree86 TrueType backend. The font service code used to have some problems with dealing with font server crashes, font server configuration changes, etc. While Keith Packard has fixed (all?) these problems in 4.0, I cannot help feeling that use of a font server causes unreliabilities. I don't like font servers. Juliusz
Re: Why use a font server?
While everything that Branden has said is true, I feel that I should also present the other side of the story. Both the font server and the X server will keep a copy of all the currently open fonts. Thus, using a font server will double the amount of memory you're devoting to fonts. In a default configuration (not using -deferglyphs), the X server will request a full copy of the font from the font server at font open time. Thus, use of an X server will defeat a number of optimisations included in the XFree86 TrueType backend. The font service code used to have some problems with dealing with font server crashes, font server configuration changes, etc. While Keith Packard has fixed (all?) these problems in 4.0, I cannot help feeling that use of a font server causes unreliabilities. I don't like font servers. Juliusz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why use a font server?
Another reason is that some TrueType fonts have problems rendering correctly. Some font servers actually render better than others. They can provide an alternative way of providing fonts in case the X server is having troubles getting them. Think of it as a redundant backups for fonts. > > > > >On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 07:37:27PM +0100, Morten Brix Pedersen wrote: >> The default for XFree in Debian is to use a font server. My question is >> why? > >See attachment. > >-- >G. Branden Robinson| >Debian GNU/Linux | If encryption is outlawed, only >[EMAIL PROTECTED] | outlaws will @goH7Ok=http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | > Attachment: xfs> >On Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 08:07:11AM -0600, Ted Spradley wrote: >> Is the font server a relic from the days of small, expensive disks, so >> you only need to store the fonts in one place on your network? Or does >> it do something else that would be useful? > >The X server is single-threaded, so the entire X server will hang while >rasterizing a font. If you use a font server, this doesn't happen. > >Admittedly, this is a less serious problem in this age of fast machines. > >xfs might also be an advantage on a machine with multiple X servers >running, centralizing the workload. One X server that needs a fond may >find that the work has already been done by xfs on behalf of another X >server. > >Finally xfs may be useful where you have a large and complex font >installation at your site and you need to export them to multiple hosts >and for some reason (perhaps due to licensing reasons), you can just >copy the fonts physically onto the local disk of every X server. > >> I've never found a clear explanation of *how* to use it, let alone a >> hint of *why* or why not to use it. > >How it works is pretty simple. > >On the font server side: > >Install whatever fonts it's supposed to serve. Set up >/etc/X11/fs/config (or whatever path works on your box) as described in >xfs(1). Run it with an init script. > >On the X server side: > >Put a reference to the font server in the "Files" section of the >XF86Config file. > >--=20 >G. Branden Robinson|The first thing the communists do >Debian GNU/Linux |when they take over a country is to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] |outlaw cockfighting. >http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |-- Oklahoma State Senator John Monks > > >-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- >Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) >Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > >iEYEARECAAYFAjwsg1MACgkQ6kxmHytGonzc4gCeIS+h6Rn3ixTh2ZhqUdmYNJUW >zD4An3A9viL3ykbcrVoOoJRhOYjwG3we >=3D6yT4 >-END PGP SIGNATURE- > >___ >Newbie mailing list >Newbie@XFree86.Org >*** To unsubscribe , or change message options, see: >http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/newbie > > > > >-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- >Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) >Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > >iEYEARECAAYFAjxhiicACgkQ6kxmHytGonzypACfXCcOVjJSo1cDZE2gcPlouF5W >ZAYAn3xMLhrdzvO0LXzDEHBJL6JYmzC6 >=krSJ >-END PGP SIGNATURE- > > > >-- >To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- Derek J Witt, "... and on the eighth day, God met Bill Gates. But the Almighty had to return him with postage due." -- Unknown. http://www.getonline.cc
Re: Why use a font server?
Another reason is that some TrueType fonts have problems rendering correctly. Some font servers actually render better than others. They can provide an alternative way of providing fonts in case the X server is having troubles getting them. Think of it as a redundant backups for fonts. > > > > >On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 07:37:27PM +0100, Morten Brix Pedersen wrote: >> The default for XFree in Debian is to use a font server. My question is >> why? > >See attachment. > >-- >G. Branden Robinson| >Debian GNU/Linux | If encryption is outlawed, only >[EMAIL PROTECTED] | outlaws will @goH7Ok=http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | > Attachment: xfs> >On Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 08:07:11AM -0600, Ted Spradley wrote: >> Is the font server a relic from the days of small, expensive disks, so >> you only need to store the fonts in one place on your network? Or does >> it do something else that would be useful? > >The X server is single-threaded, so the entire X server will hang while >rasterizing a font. If you use a font server, this doesn't happen. > >Admittedly, this is a less serious problem in this age of fast machines. > >xfs might also be an advantage on a machine with multiple X servers >running, centralizing the workload. One X server that needs a fond may >find that the work has already been done by xfs on behalf of another X >server. > >Finally xfs may be useful where you have a large and complex font >installation at your site and you need to export them to multiple hosts >and for some reason (perhaps due to licensing reasons), you can just >copy the fonts physically onto the local disk of every X server. > >> I've never found a clear explanation of *how* to use it, let alone a >> hint of *why* or why not to use it. > >How it works is pretty simple. > >On the font server side: > >Install whatever fonts it's supposed to serve. Set up >/etc/X11/fs/config (or whatever path works on your box) as described in >xfs(1). Run it with an init script. > >On the X server side: > >Put a reference to the font server in the "Files" section of the >XF86Config file. > >--=20 >G. Branden Robinson|The first thing the communists do >Debian GNU/Linux |when they take over a country is to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] |outlaw cockfighting. >http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |-- Oklahoma State Senator John Monks > > >-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- >Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) >Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > >iEYEARECAAYFAjwsg1MACgkQ6kxmHytGonzc4gCeIS+h6Rn3ixTh2ZhqUdmYNJUW >zD4An3A9viL3ykbcrVoOoJRhOYjwG3we >=3D6yT4 >-END PGP SIGNATURE- > >___ >Newbie mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >*** To unsubscribe , or change message options, see: >http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/newbie > > > > >-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- >Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) >Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > >iEYEARECAAYFAjxhiicACgkQ6kxmHytGonzypACfXCcOVjJSo1cDZE2gcPlouF5W >ZAYAn3xMLhrdzvO0LXzDEHBJL6JYmzC6 >=krSJ >-END PGP SIGNATURE- > > > >-- >To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- Derek J Witt, "... and on the eighth day, God met Bill Gates. But the Almighty had to return him with postage due." -- Unknown. http://www.getonline.cc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why use a font server?
* Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-02-06 21:03:21]: > On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 07:37:27PM +0100, Morten Brix Pedersen wrote: > > The default for XFree in Debian is to use a font server. My question is > > why? > > See attachment. Thanks for the explanation :-) - Morten.
Re: Why use a font server?
On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 07:37:27PM +0100, Morten Brix Pedersen wrote: > The default for XFree in Debian is to use a font server. My question is > why? See attachment. -- G. Branden Robinson| Debian GNU/Linux | If encryption is outlawed, only [EMAIL PROTECTED] | outlaws will @goH7Ok=http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Dec 28 09:36:21 2001 Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from master.debian.org (master.debian.org [216.234.231.5]) by necrotic.deadbeast.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB9115C04A for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:36:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from xf86.isc.org (public.xfree86.org) [204.152.184.37] by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 16Jy7Q-0004L8-00; Fri, 28 Dec 2001 08:36:20 -0600 Received: from public.XFree86.Org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by public.xfree86.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFDCD27874; Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:36:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from apocalypse.deadbeast.net (cc551902-b.indnpls1.in.home.com [24.183.211.35]) by public.xfree86.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fBSEaAa66913 for ; Fri, 28 Dec 2001 06:36:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Received: by apocalypse.deadbeast.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C92764177; Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:36:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:36:03 -0500 From: Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: newbie@XFree86.Org Subject: Re: [Newbie]X font server hangs Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mail-Followup-To: newbie@XFree86.Org References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.24i Mail-Copies-To: nobody X-No-CC: I subscribe to this list; do not CC me on replies. Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-BeenThere: newbie@XFree86.Org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta2 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: newbie@XFree86.Org List-Id: Help for newcomers to XFree86 Status: RO Content-Length: 2366 Lines: 67 --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 08:07:11AM -0600, Ted Spradley wrote: > Is the font server a relic from the days of small, expensive disks, so > you only need to store the fonts in one place on your network? Or does > it do something else that would be useful? The X server is single-threaded, so the entire X server will hang while rasterizing a font. If you use a font server, this doesn't happen. Admittedly, this is a less serious problem in this age of fast machines. xfs might also be an advantage on a machine with multiple X servers running, centralizing the workload. One X server that needs a fond may find that the work has already been done by xfs on behalf of another X server. Finally xfs may be useful where you have a large and complex font installation at your site and you need to export them to multiple hosts and for some reason (perhaps due to licensing reasons), you can just copy the fonts physically onto the local disk of every X server. > I've never found a clear explanation of *how* to use it, let alone a > hint of *why* or why not to use it. How it works is pretty simple. On the font server side: Install whatever fonts it's supposed to serve. Set up /etc/X11/fs/config (or whatever path works on your box) as described in xfs(1). Run it with an init script. On the X server side: Put a reference to the font server in the "Files" section of the XF86Config file. --=20 G. Branden Robinson|The first thing the communists do Debian GNU/Linux |when they take over a country is to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |outlaw cockfighting. http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |-- Oklahoma State Senator John Monks --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjwsg1MACgkQ6kxmHytGonzc4gCeIS+h6Rn3ixTh2ZhqUdmYNJUW zD4An3A9viL3ykbcrVoOoJRhOYjwG3we =6yT4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX-- ___ Newbie mailing list Newbie@XFree86.Org *** To unsubscribe , or change message options, see: http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/newbie pgpAUGubjVGQG.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why use a font server?
On Mit, 2002-02-06 at 19:37, Morten Brix Pedersen wrote: > The default for XFree in Debian is to use a font server. My question is > why? > > I'm not an expert or anything, but I read somewhere that font servers > were good to remove the load from many machines; that is - if many > machines used the same font server. > > I believe most people who use XFree on Debian use it on single-user > systems, and the font server is only another hurdle to setup. > > The first thing I do when I have installed XFree4, is to comment out the > font server, remove it and load the freetype module. This gives me great > support for TrueType fonts and I only need to concentrate on > XF86Config-4 when setting up this machine. The font servers also support TrueType fonts, and setting them up is very easy, I imagine the default configuration works for most people. > Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I have wondered about this for a long time. > > There may be other advantages with font servers which I have > overlooked. Yes. :) Several X servers on the same machine can use a single font server. And when using a font server, the X server doesn't block while rasterizing fonts. Just to name a few. -- Earthling Michel Dänzer (MrCooper)/ Debian GNU/Linux (powerpc) developer XFree86 and DRI project member / CS student, Free Software enthusiast
Why use a font server?
Hi all, The default for XFree in Debian is to use a font server. My question is why? I'm not an expert or anything, but I read somewhere that font servers were good to remove the load from many machines; that is - if many machines used the same font server. I believe most people who use XFree on Debian use it on single-user systems, and the font server is only another hurdle to setup. The first thing I do when I have installed XFree4, is to comment out the font server, remove it and load the freetype module. This gives me great support for TrueType fonts and I only need to concentrate on XF86Config-4 when setting up this machine. Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I have wondered about this for a long time. There may be other advantages with font servers which I have overlooked. - Morten.
Re: Why use a font server?
* Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-02-06 21:03:21]: > On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 07:37:27PM +0100, Morten Brix Pedersen wrote: > > The default for XFree in Debian is to use a font server. My question is > > why? > > See attachment. Thanks for the explanation :-) - Morten. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why use a font server?
On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 07:37:27PM +0100, Morten Brix Pedersen wrote: > The default for XFree in Debian is to use a font server. My question is > why? See attachment. -- G. Branden Robinson| Debian GNU/Linux | If encryption is outlawed, only [EMAIL PROTECTED] | outlaws will @goH7Ok=http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Dec 28 09:36:21 2001 Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from master.debian.org (master.debian.org [216.234.231.5]) by necrotic.deadbeast.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB9115C04A for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:36:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from xf86.isc.org (public.xfree86.org) [204.152.184.37] by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 16Jy7Q-0004L8-00; Fri, 28 Dec 2001 08:36:20 -0600 Received: from public.XFree86.Org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by public.xfree86.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFDCD27874; Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:36:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from apocalypse.deadbeast.net (cc551902-b.indnpls1.in.home.com [24.183.211.35]) by public.xfree86.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fBSEaAa66913 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Fri, 28 Dec 2001 06:36:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Received: by apocalypse.deadbeast.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C92764177; Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:36:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:36:03 -0500 From: Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Newbie]X font server hangs Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mail-Followup-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.24i Mail-Copies-To: nobody X-No-CC: I subscribe to this list; do not CC me on replies. Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta2 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: Help for newcomers to XFree86 Status: RO Content-Length: 2366 Lines: 67 --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 08:07:11AM -0600, Ted Spradley wrote: > Is the font server a relic from the days of small, expensive disks, so > you only need to store the fonts in one place on your network? Or does > it do something else that would be useful? The X server is single-threaded, so the entire X server will hang while rasterizing a font. If you use a font server, this doesn't happen. Admittedly, this is a less serious problem in this age of fast machines. xfs might also be an advantage on a machine with multiple X servers running, centralizing the workload. One X server that needs a fond may find that the work has already been done by xfs on behalf of another X server. Finally xfs may be useful where you have a large and complex font installation at your site and you need to export them to multiple hosts and for some reason (perhaps due to licensing reasons), you can just copy the fonts physically onto the local disk of every X server. > I've never found a clear explanation of *how* to use it, let alone a > hint of *why* or why not to use it. How it works is pretty simple. On the font server side: Install whatever fonts it's supposed to serve. Set up /etc/X11/fs/config (or whatever path works on your box) as described in xfs(1). Run it with an init script. On the X server side: Put a reference to the font server in the "Files" section of the XF86Config file. --=20 G. Branden Robinson|The first thing the communists do Debian GNU/Linux |when they take over a country is to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |outlaw cockfighting. http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |-- Oklahoma State Senator John Monks --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjwsg1MACgkQ6kxmHytGonzc4gCeIS+h6Rn3ixTh2ZhqUdmYNJUW zD4An3A9viL3ykbcrVoOoJRhOYjwG3we =6yT4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX-- ___ Newbie mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** To unsubscribe , or change message options, see: http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/newbie msg03364/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why use a font server?
On Mit, 2002-02-06 at 19:37, Morten Brix Pedersen wrote: > The default for XFree in Debian is to use a font server. My question is > why? > > I'm not an expert or anything, but I read somewhere that font servers > were good to remove the load from many machines; that is - if many > machines used the same font server. > > I believe most people who use XFree on Debian use it on single-user > systems, and the font server is only another hurdle to setup. > > The first thing I do when I have installed XFree4, is to comment out the > font server, remove it and load the freetype module. This gives me great > support for TrueType fonts and I only need to concentrate on > XF86Config-4 when setting up this machine. The font servers also support TrueType fonts, and setting them up is very easy, I imagine the default configuration works for most people. > Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I have wondered about this for a long time. > > There may be other advantages with font servers which I have > overlooked. Yes. :) Several X servers on the same machine can use a single font server. And when using a font server, the X server doesn't block while rasterizing fonts. Just to name a few. -- Earthling Michel Dänzer (MrCooper)/ Debian GNU/Linux (powerpc) developer XFree86 and DRI project member / CS student, Free Software enthusiast -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why use a font server?
Hi all, The default for XFree in Debian is to use a font server. My question is why? I'm not an expert or anything, but I read somewhere that font servers were good to remove the load from many machines; that is - if many machines used the same font server. I believe most people who use XFree on Debian use it on single-user systems, and the font server is only another hurdle to setup. The first thing I do when I have installed XFree4, is to comment out the font server, remove it and load the freetype module. This gives me great support for TrueType fonts and I only need to concentrate on XF86Config-4 when setting up this machine. Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I have wondered about this for a long time. There may be other advantages with font servers which I have overlooked. - Morten. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
