Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Bonded Sender
Russ, Since no one commented on this I figured that I should add a third cent. The bottom line with any sort of service that charges a fee for adding IP's to a whitelist is that it will largely attract customers that have issues with being blacklisted. There is no doubt that most such services do not desire to be responsible for spamming, but they are often not capable of verifying that every customer's supposed opt-in list is from a first-party source and uses exclusively verified addresses. While places like roving.com (Constant Contact) probably have over 95% fully legitimate customers, as much as half of the E-mails that I get from these services are spam. The difference is due to the volumes. I have in the past reported issues with known spam operations being bonded and I was not happy with the resolution that they took in either case. I believe that your experience will show that there isn't likely a net benefit to using BondedSender. Clean sources shouldn't have issues being blacklisted, and dirty sources should be scrutinized, especially when they service a wide range of unassociated customers. Blacklists also of course have issues with these mixed/shared sources, in fact the lack of granularity in IP or domain based tests with such sources is one of the primary reasons for the problems. Another issue is that blacklists are fairly unforgiving in how they list such things, and end-users are not often concerned enough about false positives on legitimate advertising to seek having them delisted. This forced me to create my own list of domains and IP's that correspond to bulk-mail providers so that I could isolate their traffic and score them differently than I do E-mail. Some are passed automatically except for extreme circumstances, and others are held automatically and I whitelist only what customers report, and I whitelist specific mailings by things like Reply-To addresses and not the entire service. Matt Russ Uhte wrote: What's the general consensus on the BondedSender test? I looked back through the archive, and found a little debate on it. I know Matt said he removed the test completely. I've never enabled logging for messages that pass until today. And right off the get-go I get 2 that definitely shouldn't have passed, but bondedsender said they were good... -Russ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Bonded Sender
Here's a list of who has hot bonded sender for me this month: Check Mail with Tests FromDomain CountOfMessageID online.com 84 YOURNEWSLETTERS.NET 70 google.com 52 beliefnet.com 28 ebay.com 28 LIFESCRIPT.COM 26 classmates.com 24 tigeronline.com 23 ABOUT.COM 20 ediets.com 18 subscribermail.com 10 americanexpress.com 9 COOLSAVINGS.COM 8 travelzoo.com 7 email-advantage.com 6 verticalresponse.com 5 databack.com 4 foolsubs.com 4 exacttarget.com 2 hallmark.com 2 myabout.com 2 pmailus.com 2 chtah.com 2 ceocast.com 2 vresp.com 2 gliq.com 2 match.com 1 date.com 1 pdirectmail.net 1 trustedemailsender1.com 1 - Original Message - From: Russ Uhte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 9:07 AM Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Bonded Sender What's the general consensus on the BondedSender test? I looked back through the archive, and found a little debate on it. I know Matt said he removed the test completely. I've never enabled logging for messages that pass until today. And right off the get-go I get 2 that definitely shouldn't have passed, but bondedsender said they were good... -Russ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Bonded Sender
Here's the answer from our Senderbase engineer: **There's no way that I know of to make the current JunkMail use senderbase. **It could be done if the program were modified to support the senderbase **DNS interface (http://www.senderbase.org/dnsresponses.html), which **provides much of the data on the senderbase web site. **BTW, feel free to point people my way for implementation issues, if the **Declude folks decide that it's worthwhile. Contact me off list if you would like his e-mail address. -Cyan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cyan Callihan Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 2:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Bonded Sender Welcome to the list. Cyan! I have been using the bondedsender IP4R database with good success. Awesome! However, I was just looking at you senderbase site today and was wondering how I might be able to us it with Declude JunkMail. Thoughts? The person who could best answer this question is out on vacation until after the New Year. I've forwarded your query on to an engineer and I'll contact you when I have an answer. Cyan --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Bonded Sender
Thanks for coming on board. If you don't mind, I would like to jump right into a early Christmas Eve discussion on the topic :) I'm sorry that I didn't respond to this sooner. I had the last four days off for the holidays and was unable to check e-mail. So I'm wondering what your take is on the idea of having Topica and possibly other list services on Bonded Sender? So far, I greatly appreciate all the tools that your company provides with the exception of this one known instance. On the other hand, there's fairly widespread skepticism in the community at large about the dangers of having a larger commercial entity maintaining standards in this way, and I'm sure you are aware of the challenges that presents you. ail-archive.com. Thank you for your compliment. Feedback from the community definitely helps to make our products better. For privacy reasons, I can't get into a detailed discussion about Bonded Senders on this list. I can tell you about our policies and if you see that a Bonded Sender is violating these policies, please let me know immediately. If you are getting complaints about a Bonded Sender, I can investigate their abuse and determine if they should be on the list or not. We maintain high standards for IP addresses that are allowed on the list. http://www.bondedsender.com/standards.jsp;jsessionid=845FF9C80079BC53002 183B18A07DD2F If a sender is listed, it is because they follow these standards or their clients do. Often, senders will bond their best IP addresses where the policies of the list conform to our standards. You'll notice that some of these senders don't have their entire address space listed. If this doesn't adequately answer your question, please contact me off list and I'd be happy to discuss this with you directly. -Cyan Bonded Sender Abuse Manager --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Bonded Sender
Cyan, Thanks for coming on board. If you don't mind, I would like to jump right into a early Christmas Eve discussion on the topic :) Recently I came across a service that was listed in both Bonded Sender as well as Spamhaus, out003.toptx.com - 38.113.200.23. The company, Topica ( http://www.topica.com/ ) is a large list service basically, serving mostly small and medium sized customers that bring their own lists, which of course is problematic despite any verifiable good intentions of the company itself. Their reputation, as well as my first hand experience, has shown them to be a common proliferator of spam from customers that dig search engines and the like for addresses associated with the industry the list owner is targeting. One example that comes to mind in when I started seeing E-mail from their servers directed at almost every car dealership that I am hosting, and it was all sent to their generic E-mail addresses listed on their sites. Their listing in Spamhaus says, Still hitting loads of addresses that never existed. It's my feeling that both the listing in Bonded Sender as well as Spamhaus are improper. Spamhaus shouldn't be going after mostly legit companies like this without a better reason than they claim. The issue here is really that any large list service that caters to small and medium sized businesses is going to be plagued by small-time spammers. There's no way that they can effectively stop this either except to take a deposit and enforce standards very strictly, which apparently either isn't happening, or it isn't effective. I have relied on Spamhaus to only list blocks that are run by verifiable spammers, and this service is clearly not dedicated to spam, in fact it came to my attention because we were blocking a list using their service which was sent to paying subscribers. On the other hand, I have relied on Bonded Sender to heavily credit points to bulk mailers and large volume commercial organizations that can be verified to practice the strictest standards when it comes to managing their lists. Companies like Ebay, Yahoo and Microsoft for instance have taken up the practice of spamming their customers with off-topic and largely unwanted advertisements through default opt-in schemes, and therefore shouldn't be granted Bonded Sender status from the blocks from which they spam from (and I don't believe that has happened). It should also follow that list services such as Topica which are incapable of proactively managing their customer base should be excluded from consideration based simply on the type of business that they are in (you can't guarantee their messages to be legitimate). To me, this is worse than adding an ISP's mail server's to Bonded Sender, because ISP's can't effectively manage the content that is sent through their servers where as there is a concentration of this activity on list services. So I'm wondering what your take is on the idea of having Topica and possibly other list services on Bonded Sender? So far, I greatly appreciate all the tools that your company provides with the exception of this one known instance. On the other hand, there's fairly widespread skepticism in the community at large about the dangers of having a larger commercial entity maintaining standards in this way, and I'm sure you are aware of the challenges that presents you. Thanks and Happy Holidays, Matt Cyan Callihan wrote: Greetings All! I've been involved in a discussion with Dave Doherty regarding Bonded Sender and he invited me to the Declude list. I hope that I can help address any questions that you may have. If I don't have the answers, I will find someone here who does and we'll help out in any way we can. I look forward to being part of your community. Cyan Callihan Bonded Sender Standards and Compliance Manager IronPort Systems www.bondedsender.com - Guaranteed Delivery of Legitimate Email www.ironport.com - Email Infrastructure Products and Services www.senderbase.com - The Leading Email Reputation Service www.etcevent.com - Email Technology Conference sponsored by IronPort --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Bonded Sender
Welcome to the list. Cyan! I have been using the bondedsender IP4R database with good success. However, I was just looking at you senderbase site today and was wondering how I might be able to us it with Declude JunkMail. Thoughts? Regards, Bill - Original Message - From: Cyan Callihan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Bonded Sender Greetings All! I've been involved in a discussion with Dave Doherty regarding Bonded Sender and he invited me to the Declude list. I hope that I can help address any questions that you may have. If I don't have the answers, I will find someone here who does and we'll help out in any way we can. I look forward to being part of your community. Cyan Callihan Bonded Sender Standards and Compliance Manager IronPort Systems www.bondedsender.com - Guaranteed Delivery of Legitimate Email www.ironport.com - Email Infrastructure Products and Services www.senderbase.com - The Leading Email Reputation Service www.etcevent.com - Email Technology Conference sponsored by IronPort --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Bonded Sender
Welcome to the list. Cyan! I have been using the bondedsender IP4R database with good success. Awesome! However, I was just looking at you senderbase site today and was wondering how I might be able to us it with Declude JunkMail. Thoughts? The person who could best answer this question is out on vacation until after the New Year. I've forwarded your query on to an engineer and I'll contact you when I have an answer. Cyan --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Bonded Sender
Bill, This is my line for using BONDEDSENDER with Declude. It is in the Global.cfg file: BONDEDSENDER ip4r query.bondedsender.org 127.0.0.10 -10 0 We have been pleased with it so far. I think we have been using it since last spring sometime. Sheldon Sheldon Koehler, Owner/Partnerhttp://www.tenforward.com Ten Forward Communications 360-457-9023 Nationwide access, neighborhood support! Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect. Mark Twain --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Bonded Sender
- Original Message - From: Sheldon Koehler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill, This is my line for using BONDEDSENDER with Declude. It is in the Global.cfg file: BONDEDSENDER ip4r query.bondedsender.org 127.0.0.10 -10 0 We have been pleased with it so far. I think we have been using it since last spring sometime. Yep, been using BondedSender here for a long time, as well. I was asking about how we might use SenderBase: www.senderbase.com Bill --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Bonded Sender
Yep, been using BondedSender here for a long time, as well. I was asking about how we might use SenderBase: www.senderbase.com OK. I missed that part... I will wait for Cyan's reply then too... Sheldon Sheldon Koehler, Owner/Partnerhttp://www.tenforward.com Ten Forward Communications 360-457-9023 Nationwide access, neighborhood support! Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect. Mark Twain --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
