Re: [libreoffice-design] Adding [UX] and [VI] tags to mail subjects?

[Irmhild Rogalla]

Good morning,

Am 17.05.2011 00:52, schrieb Bernhard Dippold:

Hi all,

would you like to add special tags to the subjects of your mails to show
even more clearly, if the topic related to User Experience [UX] or
Visual Identity / Branding Design [VI]?


+1

kind regards
Irmhild

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Adding [UX] and [VI] tags to mail subjects?

[Phil Jackson]

Hi Bernhard

This idea has merit if we can agree on a set of codes, although it could 
also be useful to have words inside [] brackets to make them more 
identifiable.


Here are some more suggestions

[Usability-Interface]   - improving the interface
[Usability-Interaction] - improving the way the system responds to actions
[Usability-Productivity] - improving user productivity and this can 
overlap with the ones above it.


Your suggestions would then be;
[UserExperience]
[BrandingDesign]

The Message Line could then have as an example;

[libreoffice-design] [Usability-Interface] Simplifying the Screen

Various members of the Design Team can then quickly identify topics of 
interest to them without having to read the email which I guess is your 
goal. It will also allow us to search on specific types of emails 
retrospectively if the need should arise.


Cheers

Phil Jackson


On 5/17/2011 10:52 AM, Bernhard Dippold wrote:

Hi all,

would you like to add special tags to the subjects of your mails to 
show even more clearly, if the topic related to User Experience [UX] 
or Visual Identity / Branding Design [VI]?


This might make it easier to browse the list for topics you are 
interested in.


Do you think this makes sense?

Best regards

Bernhard




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[libreoffice-design] Adding [UX] and [VI] tags to mail subjects?

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi all,

would you like to add special tags to the subjects of your mails to show 
even more clearly, if the topic related to User Experience [UX] or 
Visual Identity / Branding Design [VI]?


This might make it easier to browse the list for topics you are 
interested in.


Do you think this makes sense?

Best regards

Bernhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] [UX] Bug 37245 - Make 2nd column selection more intuitive for unchecked "Evenly distribute text"

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi Rainer,

Rainer Bielefeld schrieb:

Hi,

this is a very particular Design question, but may be you can help?
In  it's really
unintuitive that there is no way to get into second column. May be there
are altrenatives?


I added a comment to the bug.

Perhaps it could be more intuitive, if the second column had a grey 
background to show that it's inactive until you access it by floating 
over the height of the first column or adding a manual break.


Adding a manual column break automatically when you click in the right 
column seems to me even more unintuitive than the present behavior 
(remove the break when clicking out of the column without writing?).


But if someone is interested, please go ahead - I can't at the moment...

Best regards

Bernhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] First Post - members particularly interested in Usability

[Phil Jackson]

Hi All

I have created a Whiteboard page - 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/InterfaceImprovement


I have included the suggestions in my previous emails and also described 
how to provide functionality for marked text which has numerous 
advantages. Someone may be able to apply the technique to other icons.


Cheers

Phil Jackson




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[libreoffice-design] Bug 37245 - Make 2nd column selection more intuitive for unchecked "Evenly distribute text"

[Rainer Bielefeld]

Hi,

this is a very particular Design question, but may be you can help?
In  it's really 
unintuitive that there is no way to get into second column. May be there 
are altrenatives?


Best regards

Rainer Bielefeld

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Re: [libreoffice-design] First Post - members particularly interested in Usability

[Astron]

Hello there,

> I have attached several images.
Argh ... this list strips out all attachments (for size reasons, I
guess). You'll have to upload to somewhere like Flickr, the wiki or
Imageshack.

> 1) Removing screen icons where functionality can be tied to events and
>>>
>>> displayed when needed. This allows to screen simplification. I've got an
>>> excellent example of how this would work.
>>
>> There's a Whiteboard section in the wiki, currently there's not very
>> much in there and I think you're welcome to add a page with your
>> thoughts, see http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/ .
>
> I created a login for the website and got to Whiteboards but could not see
> how a page is created. Could you give me some guidance on this?

Starting a new wiki page is actually pretty easy (although in the
first few hours after signing up the wiki can sometimes be a little
confused whether you are logged in etc.): all you have to do is go to
an as-yet-inexistent page, like:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Screen_icons and
click on "Create" in the right part of the toolbar.


> There are many studies available on the Internet - I have attached a more
> recent one. Donald Norman has researched and written about software and has
> very readable books. I have also read Jeff Raskin (The Humane Interface) and
> Alan Cooper (The Inmates are Running the Asylum). Refer to
> UsabilityofIcons.pdf

Even though your attachment was stripped by the mailing list software,
please be careful with copyright there and simply post a link (to an
abstract, if the full text isn't freely available online)!

>>> 4) Marking Text - provide an alternative method of inserting block start
>>> and
>>> end points. When someone is highlighting a block that extends over more
>>> than
>>> one page, it becomes very frustrating to control this when you are
>>> holding
>>> the mouse pointer at the bottom of the screen as the text speeds past. It
>>> would be cool to have the ability to move a block of text using the arrow
>>> keys (up and down).
>>
>> If you use Ctrl-Shift-Up/Down, LibreOffice will mark entire paragraphs
>> at once. Does that help or is this too slow?
>>
> I wasn't aware of these keyboard commands - that certainly makes a
> difference. For Mouse users you could have an option under the Right click
> menu to put a section start and a section end.

That might be a good idea, additionally this function could be invoked
by Ctrl-Click or Alt-Click. Since context menus don't display keyboard
shortcuts, it would be a good idea to add this to the edit menu, too.

>>> 5) When saving and opening files - allow for a list of favourite
>>> locations,
>>> which are displayed for easy selection. Every time I upgrade my computer
>>> I
>>> use the same folder to copy across and this always conflicts with what
>>> Windows thinks I want to do. I don't use Documents and Settings and still
>>> use My Documents from an older version of Windows when it was in the
>>> Root.
>>
>> I'm unsure how much can be done about this, since the file chooser on
>> Windows is the standard Windows file chooser, but it might be worth
>> researching. I'm happy to inform you, though, that on Gnome for
>> instance, bookmarked folders are displayed.
>>
>
> I guess we are all slaves of MS in the sense that many applications use
> their default open and save file dialog boxes. I personally don't use their
> shortcuts to My Documents and recent files but if I could maintain my own
> list of frequently used locations, I would be slightly more productive. I
> can kick off a White Paper on this and see what ensues. It might strike a
> chord with other members.

There is a custom Open/Save dialog in LibreOffice, see here:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/images/d/d3/WG11-14a.png . I
don't think this is what you want as it is very simple and currently
only ever used as a fallback.
However, I personally don't feel that an application should try to
replace such integral parts of the user's operating system -- I think
it would be much better if this functionality could be added by
tweaking the Windows file chooser.

>
>>> 6) When Browsing for files to load, remembering what position the file
>>> pointer was in a particular folder so that when you drop down to open a
>>> sub-folder and then return to the same parent folder, you don't get put
>>> to
>>> the top again.
>>
>> I'm unsure what you mean by this... I know Windows weirdly puts the
>> Desktop folder at the top of file trees (though in actuality it's only
>> a sub-folder of a user's home directory), which means you can load a
>> file via Desktop/My Computer/C:/Users/User Name/Documents/file.odt or
>> Desktop/Documents/file.odt. If there's something going wrong there,
>> then that is Windows's fault and LibreOffice can't do anything.
>>
> Constraints imposed by MS. When browsing in and out of sub-folders, each
> time you go back up to a parent level you had started from, the displays
> always 

Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Cover designs for printed copies of LibreOffice user guides

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi Jean, *

Jean Hollis Weber schrieb:

Thanks, Bernhard, for moving this request to the proper list.

What is the Motif you mention? I am not familiar with this term.


It's a graphical element we want to be used in LibreOffice branding:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Gallery_Motif

It can be used in parts or as a whole and fits quite well with other 
design ideas - keeping the general "language" of our branding.


There are already some use cases on our "Existing designs" page:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Existing_Designs#Distribution

Even if we need to define better what should be an official design (and 
I'd like to see the LibO documentation be part of this), you might get 
an impression what is possible with the motif.


Best regards

Bernhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Feature Request: Strike-through Icon

[Astron]

Yes, that's what I meant. Andrew C. E. Dent has done an excellent job
cataloging the icons here:
http://people.bath.ac.uk/ea2aced/OOo/OOoIconCat.odt .
Astron.

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 6:01 AM, King Duck  wrote:
> Astron,
> What do you mean by cryptic naming scheme? I'm guessing that you are talking
> about the file names.
>
> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 6:28 AM, Astron  wrote:
>
>> Hi back,
>> yes, a new Tango icon for Strikethrough would be great. But on the
>> other hand, about half of the current Tango icon theme (albeit usually
>> the lesser seen part) are still old Industrial icons, just like the
>> Strikethrough icon. Importantly, the arrows on the new Find bar are
>> Industrial icons. Some icons in the Tables toolbar are, too, the
>> entire Tools, Page Preview, etc. toolbars. Which just makes you aware,
>> that despite how crazy the Tango artists were that themed Ooo, Ooo was
>> still crazier than them. Which is to say that there are too many icons
>> in LibreOffice, a cryptic naming scheme, and also too many duplicates.
>>
>> Astron.
>>
>>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Status of the Design Team Kick-Off, and a Personal Note

[Nik]

Congratulations Christoph!

Like Ivan said, even if you don't see this until you get back, congrats 
on the little-Christoph =)
Looks like you now have an even better reason to miss out on sleep at 
night =)
Please pass on our warmest wishes to your wife also... and buy the 
little man an Eee-PC and get him trained up on LibO, it's never too early!


-Nik


On 5/8/2011 2:05 AM, Mirek M. wrote:

2011/5/5 Christoph Noack


Hi all,

sorry (in advance) for sending personal stuff to this list. But I think
it might be helpful to know that you can enjoy some weeks without my
bothering mails :-)))

Here are the details:
http://luxate.blogspot.com/2011/05/status-of-design-team-kick-off-and.html



Hi Christoph,
Congratulations from me too! I wish you the best of luck, and lots of sleep
-- the first weeks are always the hardest.


Cheers,
Christoph


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Re: [libreoffice-design] First Post - members particularly interested in Usability

[Phil Jackson]

Hi Steve

You're right! I'd never given that little anchor a second thought. I'd 
always thought what's that and then forgotten about it.


After a little experimentation - I've seen the Anchor point move from 
the bottom of the graphic I have in a document to the top. It was 
originally outside the page margins on the left and I moved it inside 
the page margins. If I click on the Anchor it then goes back to the 
bottom left.


I've figured out how you anchor it to a page using the Right Click. It's 
got options I've just ignored in the past because I had no idea what 
they did.


We need a scientific approach to solve this problem and I wonder if 
working with a sample document with graphics that exhibits typical 
problems might be a good place to start. it can then be passed around 
for feedback on potential solutions. If you think that is a good idea, 
I'll make up the sample and pass it to you.


Cheers

Phil Jackson



On 5/16/2011 7:58 PM, Steve Edmonds wrote:

Hi Phil.
When I click on a picture in LO a little square with an anchor shows 
up to show the anchor point.
If you are fairly sure that the pictures will not be required to stay 
with text that may move over page boundaries with editing, anchor to 
page can fix different shaped pictures in place.


The old lotus wordpro enabled you to move the anchor without moving 
the picture and set it where you wanted it, the picture then stayed 
relative to that anchor. You could set the anchor point for say 3 
images to the same place and then the images stayed relative to each 
other.


I don't think LO has a bug in this respect, it just doesn't work as 
well as it might.

steve

On 16/05/11 5:31 PM, Phil Jackson wrote:

Hi Steve

I wasn't aware of the anchor points and using a table with lines not 
visible  but I also think you've got a good handle on what is 
happening with your description below.


I had assumed what the user saw ( i.e. the pictures) was all that was 
involved but I can sort of grasp that the anchor points make it more 
difficult - like moving furniture around your living room, not 
knowing that each item is tied to something else.


I've tried your approach with a borderless grid and it seems 
relatively straightforward and I think this approach can resolve some 
issues.


Do you think that showing the anchor point could have some benefit? 
It could at least make the process more transparent so long as users 
understand the relationship and this might mean having some detail on 
screen that appears when moving pictures or is obviously accessible.


The more difficult situations occur when the pictures you want to 
place together are all of different sizes. Having a table or 
something similar for each individual one may be a useful.


This particular thing doesn't happen often - in fact it is more 
likely to come up when my boys are doing school assignments. But any 
simpler intuitive approach would be appreciatively received.


Cheers

Phil Jackson




On 5/16/2011 4:57 PM, Steve Edmonds wrote:

Hi Phil.
I haven't fully grasped what your trying to achieve so not sure exactly
the best suggestion.
Try creating a table with border lines not visible. I do this to have
set grid patterns of pictures.
You can place images in a frame and anchor them to the frame, and then
move them as one.
I also find that if you place images anchored to page you can place 
them

anywhere.
I might have put you wrong with no wrap and meant wrap in background.
The main thing is not to have any anchor points in reflowed text.

Moving pictures and anchor points still needs polishing in LO.
Depending on how you anchor the image it can move with anchor point
movement but also moving the picture can change the anchor point when
you don't want to, and it is hard to set the anchor point for an image
to stay with one paragraph. You move an image, that reflows the text,
other anchor points move, then other images move and you struggle to 
get

it back to normal.
steve


On 2011-05-16 11:45, Phil Jackson wrote:

Hi Steve

I wasn't aware of that setting - that could be useful when pasting.

What about when pictures are moved around? I 've tried it several
times myself and the hidden rules that govern how pictures can be
moved seem to have a mind of their own. It's possible that a grid
approach as put forward below may provide a more workable solution as
it sets boundaries for individual images.

When there is a collection of images, I can appreciate how difficult
it is to manage programmatically. A grid would allow cropping and
placement control, knowing that the manipulation of one picture isn't
going to upset the location of other pictures. It should be possible
to drag picture between grid cells also. This could be an alternative
method for users who know precisely what they want to achieve.

Cheers

Phil Jackson


On 5/16/2011 11:14 AM, Steve Edmonds wrote:

On 2011-05-16 10:07, Phil Jackson wrote:

10) Pasting Pictures so that they don't jump around unexpectedly

Re: [libreoffice-design] First Post - members particularly interested in Usability

[Steve Edmonds]

Hi Phil.
When I click on a picture in LO a little square with an anchor shows up 
to show the anchor point.
If you are fairly sure that the pictures will not be required to stay 
with text that may move over page boundaries with editing, anchor to 
page can fix different shaped pictures in place.


The old lotus wordpro enabled you to move the anchor without moving the 
picture and set it where you wanted it, the picture then stayed relative 
to that anchor. You could set the anchor point for say 3 images to the 
same place and then the images stayed relative to each other.


I don't think LO has a bug in this respect, it just doesn't work as well 
as it might.

steve

On 16/05/11 5:31 PM, Phil Jackson wrote:

Hi Steve

I wasn't aware of the anchor points and using a table with lines not 
visible  but I also think you've got a good handle on what is 
happening with your description below.


I had assumed what the user saw ( i.e. the pictures) was all that was 
involved but I can sort of grasp that the anchor points make it more 
difficult - like moving furniture around your living room, not knowing 
that each item is tied to something else.


I've tried your approach with a borderless grid and it seems 
relatively straightforward and I think this approach can resolve some 
issues.


Do you think that showing the anchor point could have some benefit? It 
could at least make the process more transparent so long as users 
understand the relationship and this might mean having some detail on 
screen that appears when moving pictures or is obviously accessible.


The more difficult situations occur when the pictures you want to 
place together are all of different sizes. Having a table or something 
similar for each individual one may be a useful.


This particular thing doesn't happen often - in fact it is more likely 
to come up when my boys are doing school assignments. But any simpler 
intuitive approach would be appreciatively received.


Cheers

Phil Jackson




On 5/16/2011 4:57 PM, Steve Edmonds wrote:

Hi Phil.
I haven't fully grasped what your trying to achieve so not sure exactly
the best suggestion.
Try creating a table with border lines not visible. I do this to have
set grid patterns of pictures.
You can place images in a frame and anchor them to the frame, and then
move them as one.
I also find that if you place images anchored to page you can place them
anywhere.
I might have put you wrong with no wrap and meant wrap in background.
The main thing is not to have any anchor points in reflowed text.

Moving pictures and anchor points still needs polishing in LO.
Depending on how you anchor the image it can move with anchor point
movement but also moving the picture can change the anchor point when
you don't want to, and it is hard to set the anchor point for an image
to stay with one paragraph. You move an image, that reflows the text,
other anchor points move, then other images move and you struggle to get
it back to normal.
steve


On 2011-05-16 11:45, Phil Jackson wrote:

Hi Steve

I wasn't aware of that setting - that could be useful when pasting.

What about when pictures are moved around? I 've tried it several
times myself and the hidden rules that govern how pictures can be
moved seem to have a mind of their own. It's possible that a grid
approach as put forward below may provide a more workable solution as
it sets boundaries for individual images.

When there is a collection of images, I can appreciate how difficult
it is to manage programmatically. A grid would allow cropping and
placement control, knowing that the manipulation of one picture isn't
going to upset the location of other pictures. It should be possible
to drag picture between grid cells also. This could be an alternative
method for users who know precisely what they want to achieve.

Cheers

Phil Jackson


On 5/16/2011 11:14 AM, Steve Edmonds wrote:

On 2011-05-16 10:07, Phil Jackson wrote:

10) Pasting Pictures so that they don't jump around unexpectedly
when you
have many pictures on a page and you move one.

This is one major bother for me, too. This might be pretty hard to
solve..?



I've got some ideas on this which involve having some sort of wire
grid and pictures get pasted optionally into cells in the grid. It's
as if each grid cell is a Window and the graphic can be moved around
inside the grid but doesn't get displayed outside it. It would need a
simple grid designer to set the rectangular areas into which a user
will place images. The grid lines will be able to be moved to 
enlargen

or reduce the area of individual cell areas.

Hi.
If the default when pasting a picture was "No Wrap" then it shouldn't
disrupt the position of other objects when you insert a new picture.
steve








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