Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform with Linux's Standard "Command Button Layout"
On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 00:02 -0400, Andrew Pullins wrote: > im just saying that maybe there should be some standards. who besides that I > do not know. maybe we can choose one of the options that people put in > there programs for linux and keep the Widows or mac standards the same so > that they do not get confused. or even choose one of theirs. I do not > know. I think with Windows and Mac there are MS and Apple speicfications but with Linux we may best to set our standard, may be derived from Windows or Mac so the devs have less rework > On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 12:44 PM, planas wrote: > > > On Sun, 2011-07-17 at 02:15 -0400, Andrew Pullins wrote: > > > > > it just seems that you can not win no matter what we do. > > > > > > I don't have that problem, but I've got a different one: I always look > > > > under "Edit" when trying to find the options. After using LibreOffice > > > > for some time, I will suddenly try to find Firefox's preferences under > > > > "Tools". This is very, very annoying to me. > > > > > > > > > when using Firefox depending on weather your using linux or windows the > > > option button art in a different spot as well. > > > > > > it sounds like Linux needs to set some standards while the majority is > > still > > > developers. for they will adapted more quickly and easily than general > > > users. then again it took my mom for ever to understand that there was > > no > > > difference between Firefox and IE that both took you to the same > > internet. > > > > The problem is that are true standards for a GUI. What we call standards > > are defacto ones based on earlier GUI's, experience, and personal > > preference. Linux developers are noted for trying different GUI ideas > > both with different GUI (Gnome, KDE, Unity, Enlightenment, etc.) and the > > GUI implementation, It is annoying to some and liberating to others > > because people are experimenting. > > > > > > > I know that there is a big difference between the two but she though > > that > > > you could only get to my school work through Firefox because thats what I > > > use and deleted all icons of IE so people could not get on it. any way > > > there needs to be a standard or maybe we choose a standard and stick with > > > it. weather that is options in Edit or Tools, or save/discard/cancel, > > > discard/save/cancel. ether way we need to decide and stick with > > > that decision. > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Astron > >wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 4:31 PM, nick rundy > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > @RGB ES: Yes, you are absolutely right, I was referring to GNOME. I > > > > apologize for my oversight. > > > > > I point out the "command button layout" issue because of what I have > > > > seen, which has already been brought up in the discussion. People tend > > to > > > > develop a rote mentality of clicking an area. I often find myself > > (because > > > > I'm used to working on GNOME) moving to the right corner of dialog > > windows > > > > to click OK only to realize last second (while using LibreOffice) that > > OK is > > > > positioned like it is in KDE/Windows. Of course KDE and MS-Windows > > users > > > > automatically will move to the left to select OK because they are > > > > conditioned for it. > > > > > > > > I don't have that problem, but I've got a different one: I always look > > > > under "Edit" when trying to find the options. After using LibreOffice > > > > for some time, I will suddenly try to find Firefox's preferences under > > > > "Tools". This is very, very annoying to me. > > > > In this case, the KDE behaviour is to have a "Settings" (or > > > > "Preferences") menu ... > > > > Because of that, if the placement of "Options" _in Linux builds_ were > > > > changed to be under "Edit", it wouldn't even feel more alien to KDE > > > > users. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If changing this layout is a complicated matter Coding-Wise or > > resources > > > > would be better allotted to working on other projects (e.g., I'd rather > > see > > > > bug 39080 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39080 implemented > > > > than the command button layout issue I'm speaking of here), then I urge > > you > > > > guys to make that call. But if its not a big headache and other people > > feel > > > > it is important enough to work on, I think conforming the dialog boxes > > to > > > > the "standard button layout" of the desktop (i.e., KDE/Windows, > > Mac/GNOME) > > > > adds to the integration and seamlessness of the LibreOffice UI. > > Ultimately I > > > > just intended for my e-mail to bring this issue to people's attention > > so > > > > there's awareness of it and the powers that be can make a decision on > > it. :) > > > > > > > > I'd rather see button placement changed than the addition of a draft > > > > mode (I like the more physical feel of the standard mode), but that's > > > > me. > > > > > > > > Astron. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Unsubscribe instructions
Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform with Linux's Standard "Command Button Layout"
im just saying that maybe there should be some standards. who besides that I do not know. maybe we can choose one of the options that people put in there programs for linux and keep the Widows or mac standards the same so that they do not get confused. or even choose one of theirs. I do not know. On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 12:44 PM, planas wrote: > On Sun, 2011-07-17 at 02:15 -0400, Andrew Pullins wrote: > > > it just seems that you can not win no matter what we do. > > > > I don't have that problem, but I've got a different one: I always look > > > under "Edit" when trying to find the options. After using LibreOffice > > > for some time, I will suddenly try to find Firefox's preferences under > > > "Tools". This is very, very annoying to me. > > > > > > when using Firefox depending on weather your using linux or windows the > > option button art in a different spot as well. > > > > it sounds like Linux needs to set some standards while the majority is > still > > developers. for they will adapted more quickly and easily than general > > users. then again it took my mom for ever to understand that there was > no > > difference between Firefox and IE that both took you to the same > internet. > > The problem is that are true standards for a GUI. What we call standards > are defacto ones based on earlier GUI's, experience, and personal > preference. Linux developers are noted for trying different GUI ideas > both with different GUI (Gnome, KDE, Unity, Enlightenment, etc.) and the > GUI implementation, It is annoying to some and liberating to others > because people are experimenting. > > > > I know that there is a big difference between the two but she though > that > > you could only get to my school work through Firefox because thats what I > > use and deleted all icons of IE so people could not get on it. any way > > there needs to be a standard or maybe we choose a standard and stick with > > it. weather that is options in Edit or Tools, or save/discard/cancel, > > discard/save/cancel. ether way we need to decide and stick with > > that decision. > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Astron >wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 4:31 PM, nick rundy > wrote: > > > > > > > > @RGB ES: Yes, you are absolutely right, I was referring to GNOME. I > > > apologize for my oversight. > > > > I point out the "command button layout" issue because of what I have > > > seen, which has already been brought up in the discussion. People tend > to > > > develop a rote mentality of clicking an area. I often find myself > (because > > > I'm used to working on GNOME) moving to the right corner of dialog > windows > > > to click OK only to realize last second (while using LibreOffice) that > OK is > > > positioned like it is in KDE/Windows. Of course KDE and MS-Windows > users > > > automatically will move to the left to select OK because they are > > > conditioned for it. > > > > > > I don't have that problem, but I've got a different one: I always look > > > under "Edit" when trying to find the options. After using LibreOffice > > > for some time, I will suddenly try to find Firefox's preferences under > > > "Tools". This is very, very annoying to me. > > > In this case, the KDE behaviour is to have a "Settings" (or > > > "Preferences") menu ... > > > Because of that, if the placement of "Options" _in Linux builds_ were > > > changed to be under "Edit", it wouldn't even feel more alien to KDE > > > users. > > > > > > > > > > If changing this layout is a complicated matter Coding-Wise or > resources > > > would be better allotted to working on other projects (e.g., I'd rather > see > > > bug 39080 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39080 implemented > > > than the command button layout issue I'm speaking of here), then I urge > you > > > guys to make that call. But if its not a big headache and other people > feel > > > it is important enough to work on, I think conforming the dialog boxes > to > > > the "standard button layout" of the desktop (i.e., KDE/Windows, > Mac/GNOME) > > > adds to the integration and seamlessness of the LibreOffice UI. > Ultimately I > > > just intended for my e-mail to bring this issue to people's attention > so > > > there's awareness of it and the powers that be can make a decision on > it. :) > > > > > > I'd rather see button placement changed than the addition of a draft > > > mode (I like the more physical feel of the standard mode), but that's > > > me. > > > > > > Astron. > > > > > > -- > > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org > > > Posting guidelines + more: > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > > > deleted > > > > > > > > > -- > Jay Lozier > jsloz...@gmail.com > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org > Posting guidelines + more
Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform with Linux's Standard "Command Button Layout"
On Sun, 2011-07-17 at 02:15 -0400, Andrew Pullins wrote: > it just seems that you can not win no matter what we do. > > I don't have that problem, but I've got a different one: I always look > > under "Edit" when trying to find the options. After using LibreOffice > > for some time, I will suddenly try to find Firefox's preferences under > > "Tools". This is very, very annoying to me. > > > when using Firefox depending on weather your using linux or windows the > option button art in a different spot as well. > > it sounds like Linux needs to set some standards while the majority is still > developers. for they will adapted more quickly and easily than general > users. then again it took my mom for ever to understand that there was no > difference between Firefox and IE that both took you to the same internet. The problem is that are true standards for a GUI. What we call standards are defacto ones based on earlier GUI's, experience, and personal preference. Linux developers are noted for trying different GUI ideas both with different GUI (Gnome, KDE, Unity, Enlightenment, etc.) and the GUI implementation, It is annoying to some and liberating to others because people are experimenting. > I know that there is a big difference between the two but she though that > you could only get to my school work through Firefox because thats what I > use and deleted all icons of IE so people could not get on it. any way > there needs to be a standard or maybe we choose a standard and stick with > it. weather that is options in Edit or Tools, or save/discard/cancel, > discard/save/cancel. ether way we need to decide and stick with > that decision. > > > On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Astron wrote: > > > On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 4:31 PM, nick rundy wrote: > > > > > > @RGB ES: Yes, you are absolutely right, I was referring to GNOME. I > > apologize for my oversight. > > > I point out the "command button layout" issue because of what I have > > seen, which has already been brought up in the discussion. People tend to > > develop a rote mentality of clicking an area. I often find myself (because > > I'm used to working on GNOME) moving to the right corner of dialog windows > > to click OK only to realize last second (while using LibreOffice) that OK is > > positioned like it is in KDE/Windows. Of course KDE and MS-Windows users > > automatically will move to the left to select OK because they are > > conditioned for it. > > > > I don't have that problem, but I've got a different one: I always look > > under "Edit" when trying to find the options. After using LibreOffice > > for some time, I will suddenly try to find Firefox's preferences under > > "Tools". This is very, very annoying to me. > > In this case, the KDE behaviour is to have a "Settings" (or > > "Preferences") menu ... > > Because of that, if the placement of "Options" _in Linux builds_ were > > changed to be under "Edit", it wouldn't even feel more alien to KDE > > users. > > > > > > > If changing this layout is a complicated matter Coding-Wise or resources > > would be better allotted to working on other projects (e.g., I'd rather see > > bug 39080 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39080 implemented > > than the command button layout issue I'm speaking of here), then I urge you > > guys to make that call. But if its not a big headache and other people feel > > it is important enough to work on, I think conforming the dialog boxes to > > the "standard button layout" of the desktop (i.e., KDE/Windows, Mac/GNOME) > > adds to the integration and seamlessness of the LibreOffice UI. Ultimately I > > just intended for my e-mail to bring this issue to people's attention so > > there's awareness of it and the powers that be can make a decision on it. :) > > > > I'd rather see button placement changed than the addition of a draft > > mode (I like the more physical feel of the standard mode), but that's > > me. > > > > Astron. > > > > -- > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org > > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > > deleted > > > -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform with Linux's Standard "Command Button Layout"
lol. Yes, no matter what you do, you can't win =) > Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 02:15:13 -0400 > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform > with Linux's Standard "Command Button Layout" > From: android2...@gmail.com > To: design@global.libreoffice.org > > it just seems that you can not win no matter what we do. > > I don't have that problem, but I've got a different one: I always look > > under "Edit" when trying to find the options. After using LibreOffice > > for some time, I will suddenly try to find Firefox's preferences under > > "Tools". This is very, very annoying to me. > > > when using Firefox depending on weather your using linux or windows the > option button art in a different spot as well. > > it sounds like Linux needs to set some standards while the majority is still > developers. for they will adapted more quickly and easily than general > users. then again it took my mom for ever to understand that there was no > difference between Firefox and IE that both took you to the same internet. > I know that there is a big difference between the two but she though that > you could only get to my school work through Firefox because thats what I > use and deleted all icons of IE so people could not get on it. any way > there needs to be a standard or maybe we choose a standard and stick with > it. weather that is options in Edit or Tools, or save/discard/cancel, > discard/save/cancel. ether way we need to decide and stick with > that decision. > > > On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Astron wrote: > > > On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 4:31 PM, nick rundy wrote: > > > > > > @RGB ES: Yes, you are absolutely right, I was referring to GNOME. I > > apologize for my oversight. > > > I point out the "command button layout" issue because of what I have > > seen, which has already been brought up in the discussion. People tend to > > develop a rote mentality of clicking an area. I often find myself (because > > I'm used to working on GNOME) moving to the right corner of dialog windows > > to click OK only to realize last second (while using LibreOffice) that OK is > > positioned like it is in KDE/Windows. Of course KDE and MS-Windows users > > automatically will move to the left to select OK because they are > > conditioned for it. > > > > I don't have that problem, but I've got a different one: I always look > > under "Edit" when trying to find the options. After using LibreOffice > > for some time, I will suddenly try to find Firefox's preferences under > > "Tools". This is very, very annoying to me. > > In this case, the KDE behaviour is to have a "Settings" (or > > "Preferences") menu ... > > Because of that, if the placement of "Options" _in Linux builds_ were > > changed to be under "Edit", it wouldn't even feel more alien to KDE > > users. > > > > > > > If changing this layout is a complicated matter Coding-Wise or resources > > would be better allotted to working on other projects (e.g., I'd rather see > > bug 39080 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39080 implemented > > than the command button layout issue I'm speaking of here), then I urge you > > guys to make that call. But if its not a big headache and other people feel > > it is important enough to work on, I think conforming the dialog boxes to > > the "standard button layout" of the desktop (i.e., KDE/Windows, Mac/GNOME) > > adds to the integration and seamlessness of the LibreOffice UI. Ultimately I > > just intended for my e-mail to bring this issue to people's attention so > > there's awareness of it and the powers that be can make a decision on it. :) > > > > I'd rather see button placement changed than the addition of a draft > > mode (I like the more physical feel of the standard mode), but that's > > me. > > > > Astron. > > > > -- > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org > > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > > deleted > > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] New Conference and Challenge banners on libreoffice.org home page
Hi Tobias, On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Tobias Bernard wrote: > okay, so maybe you could do a second version for the libO homepage and make > this one available for others on the wiki. > are the svgs of these already on the wiki? The SVGs will be on the wiki later today. I'll work on a light-colored version as soon as I have time (this week), but can we maybe leave them as they are and wait for more feedback over the next few days? That way we'll get a broader range of opinion? -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] New Conference and Challenge banners on libreoffice.org home page
okay, so maybe you could do a second version for the libO homepage and make this one available for others on the wiki. are the svgs of these already on the wiki? 2011/7/17 David Nelson > Hi Tobias, > > On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Tobias Bernard > wrote: > > 1. since the banners are really close to the LibO logo on the top of the > > page, i'd not use it on the banners. > > The reason I included the logo was so that the banners are good for > use by other people wanting to give us publicity and put these banners > on their own websites... > > -- > David Nelson > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] New Conference and Challenge banners on libreoffice.org home page
Hi Tobias, On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Tobias Bernard wrote: > 1. since the banners are really close to the LibO logo on the top of the > page, i'd not use it on the banners. The reason I included the logo was so that the banners are good for use by other people wanting to give us publicity and put these banners on their own websites... -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] New Conference and Challenge banners on libreoffice.org home page
1. since the banners are really close to the LibO logo on the top of the page, i'd not use it on the banners. 2. the space you can save by doing this could be used to make the text more readable (especially the challenge-banner isn't readable really well) 3. perhaps you should use the same font for both banners tobias 2011/7/17 David Nelson > Hi, K-J, > > On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 10:22 AM, klaus-jürgen weghorn ol > wrote: > > I "only" see the banners on the web page: > > http://www.libreoffice.org/ > > Do you have some source on the wiki or so? So some one else can play it. > > Sure, I'll put the files up on the Design wiki today. > > > My first thought,s when I saw it, were: > > Many black labels > > > > Can you try to inverse it to have a white background for comparison? > > Well, it's a light-colored page, so the dark banners contrast and > stand out well... I could do white ones, for instance, so that people > can put them on other web pages and give us publicity... Maybe wait > and see what kind of feedback comes in from others first? But, if > encouraged, I'll sure do as you suggest. > > -- > David Nelson > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] New Conference and Challenge banners on libreoffice.org home page
Hi, K-J, On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 10:22 AM, klaus-jürgen weghorn ol wrote: > I "only" see the banners on the web page: > http://www.libreoffice.org/ > Do you have some source on the wiki or so? So some one else can play it. Sure, I'll put the files up on the Design wiki today. > My first thought,s when I saw it, were: > Many black labels > > Can you try to inverse it to have a white background for comparison? Well, it's a light-colored page, so the dark banners contrast and stand out well... I could do white ones, for instance, so that people can put them on other web pages and give us publicity... Maybe wait and see what kind of feedback comes in from others first? But, if encouraged, I'll sure do as you suggest. -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] New Conference and Challenge banners on libreoffice.org home page
Hi David, *, Am 17.07.2011 03:04, schrieb David Nelson: Hi Design guys, Charles Schulz recently requested a couple of links/banners on the libreoffice.org home page linking to the Challenge and Conference sites. After seeing that there were no proposals, I went ahead and produced a couple, which you might like to check out. I "only" see the banners on the web page: http://www.libreoffice.org/ Do you have some source on the wiki or so? So some one else can play it. Basically I hacked and re-invented some of that beautiful artwork produced from work by Paulo José and Nikash Singh for the original funding Challenge. A big thank you to you both, guys, for having made the .svg files available. I really loved your original work. A big thanks to you that you step in for this necessary work If anyone has something better to offer than what I've posted, or if you feel that any changes are needed, feel free to jump in and replace them, or to comment. My first thought,s when I saw it, were: Many black labels Can you try to inverse it to have a white background for comparison? -- Grüße k-j -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Website buttons
Am 17.07.2011 03:12, schrieb Marc Paré: I think we discussed this at some point, but I can't seem to find the discussion thread. A user has asked if we had something similar to what was offered on the OOo site[1]. I think at the time there was a question as to whether the TDF was prepared to host any buttons on their servers for "href" use -- but I may be remembering it the wrong way. If we don't have any such page with buttons, could we have someone work out a few on a wiki page for user reference? IMO, I would prefer if these were offered up the same way as the OOo buttons. The sizes on the OOo page seem adequate. It would be nice if we even had some for the upcoming conference too! Here will be the place to work on: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Visual_Elements Especially on Electronical artwork - web buttons, a page I haven't had yet time to work on, so it doesn't exists up to now. Thanks for any information. Cheers, Marc [1]http://marketing.openoffice.org/art/galleries/marketing/web_buttons/ooo20buttons.html -- Grüße k-j -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
