Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Resizability of the dialogs

[MiguelAngel]

Hi Jan,

I have just seen the patch in git.

Thank you very much

Miguel Ángel.

El 10/12/14 a las 10:52, Jan Holesovsky escribió:
..

In the meantime, I'll re-enable it for the Hyperlink dialog, and the
dialogs that Miguel Angel mentioned - hope that's OK?

All the best,
Kendy


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Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest

[Christophe Strobbe]

Hi,

On 10/12/2014 12:10, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> (...)
> LibreOffice needs both new and fresh document templates . Whether they
> are directly embedded and are shipped with LibreOffice or are
> available on our templates website is not really a topic, but
> interestingly enough the work done on the Templates website prompts us
> to get new document templates.

I think this is a great idea. I have been trying to find time to work on
templates that would be a good basis for more accessible documents.
These would be templates that take into account the techniques described
at  (to which I heavily contributed).
This needn't be a lot of work, for example, ensuring sufficient contrast
in styles for headings and making sure that the language settings make
sense (e.g. the inline style "Internet Link" has no language by
default). This is an area where I would like to help - or I can
contribute some templates myself.

Best regards,

Christophe Strobbe

>
> Jay suggested a month ago that we launch a contest and we certainly
> can do that over our social networks. But we need to be sure materials
> can be uploaded and work on the selection process (I would go for a
> popular vote). What do others think?
>
> Best,
>
> Charles.
>


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Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le Wed, 10 Dec 2014 10:40:14 -0800,
Joel Madero  a écrit :

> Hey Milan,
> 
> > Le mercredi 10 décembre 2014 à 10:23 -0800, Joel Madero a écrit :
> >> On 12/10/2014 09:25 AM, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:
> >>> Hi Charles-H.,
> >>>
> >>> it is still mandatory that people release their work to the public
> >>> domain, as it was the case in the last contest? That was my only
> >>> gripe at the time, as IMHO it reduced both the quantity and
> >>> quality of the work received.
> >> IMHO this is a requirement - I'm not sure about legally but I
> >> think as a practical point they must be released under copyleft
> >> licenses, free to use and distribute as desired.
> > Note that public domain is completely different from copyleft. 
> 
> Indeed, I should have been clearer. I definitely mean copyleft and not
> public domain :)


Like Joel said :-) I will answer in more details tomorrow.

Cheers,

Charles.
> 
> Best,
> Joel
> 



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Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest

[Joel Madero]

Hey Milan,

> Le mercredi 10 décembre 2014 à 10:23 -0800, Joel Madero a écrit :
>> On 12/10/2014 09:25 AM, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:
>>> Hi Charles-H.,
>>>
>>> it is still mandatory that people release their work to the public
>>> domain, as it was the case in the last contest? That was my only gripe
>>> at the time, as IMHO it reduced both the quantity and quality of the
>>> work received.
>> IMHO this is a requirement - I'm not sure about legally but I think as a
>> practical point they must be released under copyleft licenses, free to
>> use and distribute as desired.
> Note that public domain is completely different from copyleft. 

Indeed, I should have been clearer. I definitely mean copyleft and not
public domain :)

Best,
Joel

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Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest

[Milan Bouchet-Valat]

Le mercredi 10 décembre 2014 à 10:23 -0800, Joel Madero a écrit :
> On 12/10/2014 09:25 AM, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:
> > Hi Charles-H.,
> >
> > it is still mandatory that people release their work to the public
> > domain, as it was the case in the last contest? That was my only gripe
> > at the time, as IMHO it reduced both the quantity and quality of the
> > work received.
> IMHO this is a requirement - I'm not sure about legally but I think as a
> practical point they must be released under copyleft licenses, free to
> use and distribute as desired.
Note that public domain is completely different from copyleft. Some
people may not accept to publish their work under public domain
licenses, fearing that companies might improve it and sell it under
closed licenses, without sharing their changes with the community. With
copyleft licenses this would not be possible.

Anyway the idea of a contest to improve the templates is great. I hope
the best templates could be included by default in LO, which really
needs them!

My two cents

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Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest

[Joel Madero]

On 12/10/2014 09:25 AM, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:
> Hi Charles-H.,
>
> it is still mandatory that people release their work to the public
> domain, as it was the case in the last contest? That was my only gripe
> at the time, as IMHO it reduced both the quantity and quality of the
> work received.
IMHO this is a requirement - I'm not sure about legally but I think as a
practical point they must be released under copyleft licenses, free to
use and distribute as desired.


Best,
Joel

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Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest

[Jay Philips]

Hi Charles and All,

Yes we had discussed this same issue at last week's design meeting and
decided to go with having the contest and bundling the chosen templates
in 4.4 as unfortunately the template website won't fill the newly added
template section in the start center.

I have begun a write up of what the TDF announcement of the contest
would be at the following link, so please do provide comments as well as
suggest template categories users should focus on.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WLh_SdpyGVb4n-lzsPJ4XTNNDa0SGwUwo3Onm1HjoK8/edit?usp=sharing

Jay

On 12/10/2014 03:10 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> This is a topic that did come and go, but now that we are lucky to have
> a revamped design/ux team we should probably put that back on track :-)
> 
> LibreOffice needs both new and fresh document templates . Whether they
> are directly embedded and are shipped with LibreOffice or are available
> on our templates website is not really a topic, but interestingly enough
> the work done on the Templates website prompts us to get new document
> templates.
> 
> Jay suggested a month ago that we launch a contest and we certainly can
> do that over our social networks. But we need to be sure materials can
> be uploaded and work on the selection process (I would go for a popular
> vote). What do others think?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Charles.
> 

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Re: [libreoffice-design] New templates contest

[Adolfo Jayme Barrientos]

Hi Charles-H.,

it is still mandatory that people release their work to the public
domain, as it was the case in the last contest? That was my only gripe
at the time, as IMHO it reduced both the quantity and quality of the
work received.

> LibreOffice needs both new and fresh document templates . Whether they are
> directly embedded and are shipped with LibreOffice or are available on our
> templates website is not really a topic

I do think it’s a topic :-) Right now the Templates site is quite
unusable, so I would pursue integrating new templates directly into
the downloaded product.

Also, we need templates not only for Impress, but for Writer as well —
we received none for Writer the last time.

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Resizability of the dialogs

[Adolfo Jayme Barrientos]

2014-12-10 3:52 GMT-06:00 Jan Holesovsky :
> In the meantime, I'll re-enable it for the Hyperlink dialog, and the
> dialogs that Miguel Angel mentioned - hope that's OK?

Please do :-)

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[libreoffice-design] New templates contest

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello,

This is a topic that did come and go, but now that we are lucky to have 
a revamped design/ux team we should probably put that back on track :-)


LibreOffice needs both new and fresh document templates . Whether they 
are directly embedded and are shipped with LibreOffice or are available 
on our templates website is not really a topic, but interestingly enough 
the work done on the Templates website prompts us to get new document 
templates.


Jay suggested a month ago that we launch a contest and we certainly can 
do that over our social networks. But we need to be sure materials can 
be uploaded and work on the selection process (I would go for a popular 
vote). What do others think?


Best,

Charles.

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Weekly Design Hangout: 2014-12-10

[Sophie]

Hi Kendy, all,
Le 10/12/2014 11:57, Jan Holesovsky a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> Just a reminder; today is Wednesday, and we'll have the weekly
> Hangout at 18:00 UTC (19:00 CEST).
> 
> The agenda is here:
> 
> http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/design
> 
> Everybody is welcome - please do join! :-)  Either call the provided
> phone numbers, or contact us on #libreoffice-design on irc.freenode.net
> few minutes before the call, and we'll invite you to the hangout.

I wanted to make you aware of this page that has an interest for you too:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Mentoring_Programs/Task_ideas_for_Google_Code-in

Cheers
Sophie

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The Document Foundation

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[libreoffice-design] Weekly Design Hangout: 2014-12-10

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

Just a reminder; today is Wednesday, and we'll have the weekly
Hangout at 18:00 UTC (19:00 CEST).

The agenda is here:

http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/design

Everybody is welcome - please do join! :-)  Either call the provided
phone numbers, or contact us on #libreoffice-design on irc.freenode.net
few minutes before the call, and we'll invite you to the hangout.

All the best,
Kendy


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Resizability of the dialogs

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Adolfo,

Adolfo Jayme Barrientos píše v Út 09. 12. 2014 v 10:26 -0600:

> I have also seen a report
> (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86891) in which a user
> had the LibreOffice file picking dialog appearing too wide, could not
> resize it, and I had never made that one non-resizable (my only
> modification to that one dialog was making it modal, Jay’s
> suggestion).

Interesting - can you please ask him / her for the profile, and try to
track down what exactly is the change that makes it non-resizable?

> I don’t think re-enabling resizing would be “the” fix for that.
> Granted, it could be seen by some users as a regression, but the truth
> is that many of those dialogs had resizability by mistake (it’s a
> Glade default) but it just contributed to LibreOffice looking
> unfinished: resizing, in most of the cases, did not help to actually
> see more content, it just made the window uglier.

That's true - OTOH the dialogs that do not resize correctly (or resize
in an ugly way) should be fixed anyway, because just showing them in a
different language (that has a different length of descriptions) can
cause the same trouble as the plain resizing.

But the concept of 'seeing more content' you mentioned is a good
guideline here I think; actually I have noticed it also here:

https://mail.gnome.org/archives/hig/2002-December/msg00035.html

- 8< -
Problem: Dialog windows and message windows can be resized larger 
(minimum size is normal size) even though no additional information is 
visible when the window is resized.
Recommended Fix: A dialog window should be resizable only if more 
information is visible when the window is resized. A message window 
should not be resizable.
- 8< -

The thing is how to define the 'additional information'.  Eg. in the
Hyperlink dialog, only trivial links can be seen fully in the "Target:"
edit field, anything longer is cut off - so there, resizing definitely
makes sense, as that provides additional information.

In general, the dialogs with edit boxes that have no limit on the number
of characters should be resizable, as it is really annoying to see just
part of the information, and have to move in the edit box.

> So far, the “problematic” dialogs have been those of recent .ui
> conversion, aren’t they? I am aware of the problem appearing sometimes
> in the Hyperlink and fpicker dialogs, right? Are you aware of others?

I think Jay had some examples; and Miguel Angel just wrote some examples
too.

> A correct fix would be to find the thing in the old profiles that’s
> botching the dialog size, and remove it on migration. Perhaps Caolán,
> if he finds a little time, could help. If it proves too
> time-consuming, then you can re-enable resizing, although that should
> be a last-resort method.

Well - the thing is that Caolan is an extremely busy developer; asking
him for fixing this really does not scale ;-)  I could have a look
myself, but knowing the migration code, it will take me several hours of
hacking code that is extremely hard to test (the profile is always
migrated once; there are as many profiles as users out there), and that
has large consequences if a bug appears there.

OTOH re-enabling resizing is a matter of minutes...

Any chance you can make it to the Design hangout today, at least for a
while?  Would be good to talk this in a call I believe :-)

In the meantime, I'll re-enable it for the Hyperlink dialog, and the
dialogs that Miguel Angel mentioned - hope that's OK?

All the best,
Kendy


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