Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Impress Mode Toolbar

2016-01-16 Thread Heiko Tietze 
On Saturday, 16 January 2016 12:59:57 CET Arnaud Versini wrote:
> 2016-01-15 13:14 GMT+01:00 Heiko Tietze :
> > But for LibO, and any other open source
> > application, you cannot run the development based on usability tests.
> 
> Why not ? We don't have users ?
The user-centered development is an iterative process. You test everything 
with the target users and have to go into retreat for redesigning when its not 
perfect. But this model is not what we can do for our rolling release and for 
open source. Users are spread over the world and, as Stuart pointed out, we 
iterate by release. 

Of course we can do testing as you and Michel as well as Italo suggest. And we 
should. But we have to keep in mind that results are selective for a 
particular area, type of question, method, examiner etc. For instance, when 
Italo tells his students that something strange has happend to the Impress 
what may have an heavy impact  to the layout, and if they can find how to 
switch between display modes (sorry Italo, it's just an example and you likely 
did much better). The users might answer as expected - negatively. If you, 
however, let them perform a simple task like "enter a note for the current 
slide", and ask before execution how they expect this to be achieved and ask 
to compare this afterwards with the effective realization, the current 
solution might not look that bad anymore.

The difference is in the kind of methodology, first impression vs. usability 
test. And we should do both, yes. The results of the first impression would be 
just another piece in the puzzle, similar to what we have by looking through 
the social media. However, we can try to define tasks together with a clear 
storyboard of how and what should be asked during the test. This produces 
comparable results, but still of qualitative nature. 

Those tests should be taken seriously, it's nothing that can be done 'en 
passant'. Preparation, carrying out the test, and evaluation are really time 
consuming. You are very welcome to help with those tests. And Italo promised 
his help too.

Cheers,
Heiko
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Impress Mode Toolbar

2016-01-16 Thread Arnaud Versini 
Hello Heiko and Michel


2016-01-15 13:14 GMT+01:00 Heiko Tietze :

> On Friday, 15 January 2016 11:49:26 CET Michel RENON wrote:
> > Please note that I was talking about "use cases, prototypes, user
> > testing and iterate", not surveys.
> That's my daily business too. But for LibO, and any other open source
> application, you cannot run the development based on usability tests.


Why not ? We don't have users ?

Actually I see two ways for doing that :

   - Using LibreOffice workshop, and works with users. For example in my
   city, Toulouse, we have someone (Michel) with Writer/Calc workshop, are you
   saying that it will be useless ?
   - Second way is by using our users "big users" (French Gendarmerie,
   Nantes, Toulouse, Hambourg, Italy Army...), and ask them some time for
   working with them on LO ? Why not trying ? In France some big users plans
   to pay developers to improve LO, this is an opportunity for testing this
   method.

If I find users for doing that, Michel or Heiko do you want to try ?

Cheers

What we
> do is to analyze user replies on various sources when a release has been
> published (what Stuart describes). And we do also listen to people like
> Italo
> who asked several customers/students how to handle Impress (I believe a
> little
> bit more methodology wouldn't harm the results).
> And we do have use cases, for example [1], maybe not every time and esp.
> not
> when something is just redesigned with the restriction to keep all
> functions.
> But in this case we carefully list all functions and issues, e.g [2].
> Improvable? Yes, of course.
>
> > If I take time to define some use cases, will design team use them ?
> Sure. Rather call it scenarios when not related to a special task and add
> this
> to the HIG.
>
> [1] http://user-prompt.com/tracking-changes-with-libreoffice/
> [2]
> http://user-prompt.com/libreoffice-design-session-entries-at-indexes-and-tables/
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Arnaud Versini

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Design for t-shirt ..

2016-01-16 Thread Cor Nouws 
K-J LibreOffice wrote on 16-01-16 18:28:

> If you don't get a better one you can take this (but if you take this I
> want a t-shirt ;-) ):
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibO-FOSDEM2016-G5-1.png

This morning David Berti (see yesterday's mail) send a design, which is
finished after some off list discussion.
I do like you design too, so there is at least already one for a next
year :)
Thanks a lot!
Cor


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Design for t-shirt ..

2016-01-16 Thread K-J LibreOffice 

Hi Cor,
Am 15.01.2016 um 15:11 schrieb Cor Nouws:

Hi all,

We urgently need a good design for a t-shirt!

It turns out that the idea we had in mind - see below - didn't work.

Now maybe I or .. can do something over the weekend, but it would be
great if a better skilled person could pick it up.
There are some rough ideas, as well as few restrictions.

Who :) ?



If you don't get a better one you can take this (but if you take this I 
want a t-shirt ;-) ):

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibO-FOSDEM2016-G5-1.png


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Grüße
k-j

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