RE: [libreoffice-design] Document Saved indicator
Titlebar might not be the best place to move such an indicator to. Consider distros like Ubuntu that integrate the Titlebar into the top panel when window is maximized. Is there a reason to not have the Save Icon act as the indicator--it just won't work if it's an icon and therefore has to follow the icon rules? Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 15:13:43 -0400 From: kohei.yosh...@gmail.com To: design@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Document Saved indicator On 06/04/2012 08:54 AM, nick rundy wrote: But you say it is not reliable to rely on the save icon to show modification status? That the status bar is a more accurate indicator of this? Yes. For now it's the indicator in the status bar. And (as I understand it) folks here are discussing about moving it to somewhere else to places such as the title bar. Kohei -- Kohei Yoshida, LibreOffice hacker, Calc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-design] Document Saved indicator
*sigh* I guess the mis-use is very much prevalent. I was not aware that the Status Bar communicated save-status. I suspect the majority of LO users are also not aware of this. It is easy to see why users have adopted a mis-use of the Save Icon, assuming it is a mis-use. Users have an icon they click to save a document. It is a fairly well sized icon. Whey they go to click the icon and it is grayed out, no save is possible. No save possible = nothing is in need of saving. Hence the icon becomes a communicator as well as a saver. Whether a correct judgment or not, it is a common induction people are making. But you say it is not reliable to rely on the save icon to show modification status? That the status bar is a more accurate indicator of this? Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Document Saved indicator From: kohei.yosh...@gmail.com To: design@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 22:57:33 -0400 On Thu, 2012-05-31 at 22:54 -0400, Jay Lozier wrote: The grayed out Save button in LO also indicates that the document in unchanged since the last change. This is a very handy at a glance feature to know the save status. Since we are now going in circles, I'll resign myself from further discussion. Have a nice day. Kohei -- Kohei Yoshida, LibreOffice hacker, Calc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-design] Document Saved indicator
A grayed out Save Indicator is not superfluous! I find this EXTRAORDINARILY useful to know whether I have added new material to a document or whether I'm dealing with the previously saved version. The grayed out Indicator communicates this in a very simple manner. It's perfect. The grayed out Save Indicator is one of the best features of Writer! Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Document Saved indicator From: christ...@dogmatux.com To: design@global.libreoffice.org CC: ke...@suse.cz; android2...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 20:14:18 +0200 Hi Alex, all! Am Mittwoch, den 30.05.2012, 16:42 +0200 schrieb Alexander Wilms: actually, the save icon in the top toolbar should be enough, don't you think? It's greyed out if there's nothing to save and makes the indicator superfluous. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform with Linux's Standard Command Button Layout
lol. Yes, no matter what you do, you can't win =) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 02:15:13 -0400 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform with Linux's Standard Command Button Layout From: android2...@gmail.com To: design@global.libreoffice.org it just seems that you can not win no matter what we do. I don't have that problem, but I've got a different one: I always look under Edit when trying to find the options. After using LibreOffice for some time, I will suddenly try to find Firefox's preferences under Tools. This is very, very annoying to me. when using Firefox depending on weather your using linux or windows the option button art in a different spot as well. it sounds like Linux needs to set some standards while the majority is still developers. for they will adapted more quickly and easily than general users. then again it took my mom for ever to understand that there was no difference between Firefox and IE that both took you to the same internet. I know that there is a big difference between the two but she though that you could only get to my school work through Firefox because thats what I use and deleted all icons of IE so people could not get on it. any way there needs to be a standard or maybe we choose a standard and stick with it. weather that is options in Edit or Tools, or save/discard/cancel, discard/save/cancel. ether way we need to decide and stick with that decision. On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Astron heinzless...@googlemail.comwrote: On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 4:31 PM, nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com wrote: @RGB ES: Yes, you are absolutely right, I was referring to GNOME. I apologize for my oversight. I point out the command button layout issue because of what I have seen, which has already been brought up in the discussion. People tend to develop a rote mentality of clicking an area. I often find myself (because I'm used to working on GNOME) moving to the right corner of dialog windows to click OK only to realize last second (while using LibreOffice) that OK is positioned like it is in KDE/Windows. Of course KDE and MS-Windows users automatically will move to the left to select OK because they are conditioned for it. I don't have that problem, but I've got a different one: I always look under Edit when trying to find the options. After using LibreOffice for some time, I will suddenly try to find Firefox's preferences under Tools. This is very, very annoying to me. In this case, the KDE behaviour is to have a Settings (or Preferences) menu ... Because of that, if the placement of Options _in Linux builds_ were changed to be under Edit, it wouldn't even feel more alien to KDE users. If changing this layout is a complicated matter Coding-Wise or resources would be better allotted to working on other projects (e.g., I'd rather see bug 39080 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39080 implemented than the command button layout issue I'm speaking of here), then I urge you guys to make that call. But if its not a big headache and other people feel it is important enough to work on, I think conforming the dialog boxes to the standard button layout of the desktop (i.e., KDE/Windows, Mac/GNOME) adds to the integration and seamlessness of the LibreOffice UI. Ultimately I just intended for my e-mail to bring this issue to people's attention so there's awareness of it and the powers that be can make a decision on it. :) I'd rather see button placement changed than the addition of a draft mode (I like the more physical feel of the standard mode), but that's me. Astron. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform with Linux's Standard Command Button Layout
@RGB ES: Yes, you are absolutely right, I was referring to GNOME. I apologize for my oversight. I point out the command button layout issue because of what I have seen, which has already been brought up in the discussion. People tend to develop a rote mentality of clicking an area. I often find myself (because I'm used to working on GNOME) moving to the right corner of dialog windows to click OK only to realize last second (while using LibreOffice) that OK is positioned like it is in KDE/Windows. Of course KDE and MS-Windows users automatically will move to the left to select OK because they are conditioned for it. If changing this layout is a complicated matter Coding-Wise or resources would be better allotted to working on other projects (e.g., I'd rather see bug 39080 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39080 implemented than the command button layout issue I'm speaking of here), then I urge you guys to make that call. But if its not a big headache and other people feel it is important enough to work on, I think conforming the dialog boxes to the standard button layout of the desktop (i.e., KDE/Windows, Mac/GNOME) adds to the integration and seamlessness of the LibreOffice UI. Ultimately I just intended for my e-mail to bring this issue to people's attention so there's awareness of it and the powers that be can make a decision on it. :) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 13:27:59 +0200 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform with Linux's Standard Command Button Layout From: rgb.m...@gmail.com To: design@global.libreoffice.org 2011/7/16 nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com: LibreOffice presently uses a Microsoft Windows command button layout in its Dialog windows even when installed on a Linux distribution. Linux installations of LibreOffice should conform with the command button layout that is standard with virtually all other linux applications. For example, MS Windows displays OK Cancel. Linux displays Cancel OK. I've uploaded some screenshots to illustrate what I'm describing (http://imgur.com/a/Tmmn1#X7ym4). Notice how the screen shots conform with how MS Windows lays out its command buttons instead of how Linux applications display them? MS Windows:Save Discard CancelGNU-Linux: Cancel Discard Save MS Windows: OK Cancel Help ResetGNU-Linux:Reset Help Cancel OK You are talking about gnome, don't you? Other desktop environments have different layouts so there is no GNU/Linux standard. As an example, KDE config dialogues have: [Help], Predefined, [Undo], (space), Accept, Apply, Cancel (those between square brackets are not always present) Unless you build a specific UI for each DE available (gnome, kde, xfce, lxde, e17...), you will always annoy someone! ;) Please, remember that the Linux world do not end at Ubuntu's gnome version. Cheers Ricardo -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] LibreOffice dialog windows should conform with Linux's Standard Command Button Layout
LibreOffice presently uses a Microsoft Windows command button layout in its Dialog windows even when installed on a Linux distribution. Linux installations of LibreOffice should conform with the command button layout that is standard with virtually all other linux applications. For example, MS Windows displays OK Cancel. Linux displays Cancel OK. I've uploaded some screenshots to illustrate what I'm describing (http://imgur.com/a/Tmmn1#X7ym4). Notice how the screen shots conform with how MS Windows lays out its command buttons instead of how Linux applications display them? MS Windows:Save Discard CancelGNU-Linux: Cancel Discard Save MS Windows: OK Cancel Help ResetGNU-Linux:Reset Help Cancel OK -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-design] merge Print Layout pages
If I understand you correctly, you are proposing to keep Print Layout how it is and instead add a new view-layout called Draft Layout. And this Draft Layout would merge the ends and beginnings of pages together like the pic I uploaded to imgur illustrates? If I understand this correctly, the Draft Layout sounds like a great solution. But I would kindly suggest adding a setting that lets users set Draft Layout as the default layout that Writer displays when it is opened. So when I open Writer to begin a document, Draft Layout is the view that is selected by default. I would have to manually change it if I wanted Print Layout or Web Layout. Does this make sense? Subject: RE: [libreoffice-design] merge Print Layout pages From: christ...@dogmatux.com To: design@global.libreoffice.org Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 15:39:37 +0200 Hi all, just a short comment, since I once analyzed some of the today available views in Writer (during the OOo UX times). I think that the enhancement request is just a half-way solution that just adds some more complexity to Writer without solving the real issue. For example, even Microsoft changed the behavior from 2003 to 2007 and made this feature more hidden. I assume they wanted to completely remove it, but feared the feedback by the existing user base. My take: The enhancement request should target a real Draft view, which considers page breaks and the width of the real pages without showing the borders etc. This would also solve a lot of other issues in this area ... not only one. But, this is really tough work - I omit all the details, but I talked with one of the Devs during the FOSDEM and I got some introduction in the internal issues of the Writer structure (there, we talked about an outline view). Do you agree somehow? If yes, I'd like to rewrite the enhancement request. Cheers, Christoph Am Freitag, den 08.07.2011, 17:26 -0400 schrieb nick rundy: thanks Sigrid here's my enhancement request: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39080 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 23:05:17 +0200 From: sigrid.carr...@googlemail.com To: design@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] merge Print Layout pages Hi Nick, On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:46:03 -0400 nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com wrote: can you please provide the link to the bugzilla specific site that deals with LibreOffice? I will create my own bug. Thanks Sure, you'll find bugzilla here: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/ You need to select LibreOffice as product. This bugzilla is shared between many different projects. HTH Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-design] merge Print Layout pages
Just a comment: Word 2010 still has this merge page ends capability. I'm not understanding what you mean when you said Microsoft changed the behavior from 2003 to 2007 and made this feature 'more hidden.' Subject: RE: [libreoffice-design] merge Print Layout pages From: christ...@dogmatux.com To: design@global.libreoffice.org Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 15:39:37 +0200 Hi all, just a short comment, since I once analyzed some of the today available views in Writer (during the OOo UX times). I think that the enhancement request is just a half-way solution that just adds some more complexity to Writer without solving the real issue. For example, even Microsoft changed the behavior from 2003 to 2007 and made this feature more hidden. I assume they wanted to completely remove it, but feared the feedback by the existing user base. My take: The enhancement request should target a real Draft view, which considers page breaks and the width of the real pages without showing the borders etc. This would also solve a lot of other issues in this area ... not only one. But, this is really tough work - I omit all the details, but I talked with one of the Devs during the FOSDEM and I got some introduction in the internal issues of the Writer structure (there, we talked about an outline view). Do you agree somehow? If yes, I'd like to rewrite the enhancement request. Cheers, Christoph Am Freitag, den 08.07.2011, 17:26 -0400 schrieb nick rundy: thanks Sigrid here's my enhancement request: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39080 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 23:05:17 +0200 From: sigrid.carr...@googlemail.com To: design@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] merge Print Layout pages Hi Nick, On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:46:03 -0400 nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com wrote: can you please provide the link to the bugzilla specific site that deals with LibreOffice? I will create my own bug. Thanks Sure, you'll find bugzilla here: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/ You need to select LibreOffice as product. This bugzilla is shared between many different projects. HTH Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] merge Print Layout pages
When writing documents in Writer's Print Layout, gaps appear between the pages. In Microsoft Office Word, clicking on the ends of the pages pulls them together allowing the writer/reader to see a seamless page. This helps the flow of reading and writing and allows more information to fit on screens that don't have a lot of vertical space (e.g., netbooks). I'd sure like to see this capability added to LO. If it already exists, could someone tell me how to activate it? If not, any chance this might be added to the TO DO list for a future version of Writer? I posted an image of what I'm describing at imgur here: http://imgur.com/a/c0dgx -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-design] merge Print Layout pages
Yes, I have been using the Web Layout as a workaround. But as I'm sure you know, it's not a perfect solution. Plus I have been unable to find a way to make Writer automatically open with Web Layout selected. It always opens by default with Print Layout. Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 21:39:03 +0200 From: sigrid.carr...@googlemail.com To: design@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] merge Print Layout pages Hello Nick, On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 15:11:14 -0400 nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com wrote: When writing documents in Writer's Print Layout, gaps appear between the pages. In Microsoft Office Word, clicking on the ends of the pages pulls them together allowing the writer/reader to see a seamless page. This helps the flow of reading and writing and allows more information to fit on screens that don't have a lot of vertical space (e.g., netbooks). I'd sure like to see this capability added to LO. If it already exists, could someone tell me how to activate it? If not, any chance this might be added to the TO DO list for a future version of Writer? I posted an image of what I'm describing at imgur here: http://imgur.com/a/c0dgx I think (I haven't checked) asked for this feature as well and posted a feature request for this in our bugzilla. As a workaround, you might want to use the weblayout instead of the printlayout instead. It's not exactly what you want, but it might be good enough? Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-design] merge Print Layout pages
Sigrid, can you give me a link to the bugzilla request? Is there some way I can vote for this feature? Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 21:39:03 +0200 From: sigrid.carr...@googlemail.com To: design@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] merge Print Layout pages Hello Nick, On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 15:11:14 -0400 nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com wrote: When writing documents in Writer's Print Layout, gaps appear between the pages. In Microsoft Office Word, clicking on the ends of the pages pulls them together allowing the writer/reader to see a seamless page. This helps the flow of reading and writing and allows more information to fit on screens that don't have a lot of vertical space (e.g., netbooks). I'd sure like to see this capability added to LO. If it already exists, could someone tell me how to activate it? If not, any chance this might be added to the TO DO list for a future version of Writer? I posted an image of what I'm describing at imgur here: http://imgur.com/a/c0dgx I think (I haven't checked) asked for this feature as well and posted a feature request for this in our bugzilla. As a workaround, you might want to use the weblayout instead of the printlayout instead. It's not exactly what you want, but it might be good enough? Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [libreoffice-design] merge Print Layout pages
thanks Sigrid here's my enhancement request: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39080 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 23:05:17 +0200 From: sigrid.carr...@googlemail.com To: design@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] merge Print Layout pages Hi Nick, On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:46:03 -0400 nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com wrote: can you please provide the link to the bugzilla specific site that deals with LibreOffice? I will create my own bug. Thanks Sure, you'll find bugzilla here: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/ You need to select LibreOffice as product. This bugzilla is shared between many different projects. HTH Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
