[libreoffice-design] Re: The purpose of Impress
Hi Mirek, Le 2014-01-19 08:45, Mirek M. a écrit : Hi guys, In order to be able to effectively design and shape the future of LibreOffice modules, it is imperative that we define what these modules are for. Knowing the purpose of each module will help us focus on doing one thing well and avoid counterproductive feature creep. Since, out of all the modules, Impress's purpose might be one of the clearest, let's start with it. My rough draft: The purpose of Impress is "to make it simple and quick to craft a slide show to perfectly complement a speech." Please comment on this. I'd like to have the purpose decided on by the next IRC chat. Sure, it can be be this, however, it should stand on its own merits without the speech as well. In reality, most people will use it to complement their speeches but also usually post it on some form of media storage (cloud, website etc.) for people to download and to view themselves without any accompanying speech. So, sure, it can complement speech, BUT, it is usually intended to stand on its own merits for other people to read. As for having this discussion on the marketing list ... we can make of the Impress module whatever we decide, whether a fancy slideshow, support for speech, entertainment package, photo repository, etc. IMO, for design purposes, defining the Impress function discussion is fine on this list, but for the outside public, the marketing team should be putting on the descriptive face of Impress -- advertising as a "one function" module would not be in our best interest as it can serve many functions. Cheers, Marc -- Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com http://www.parEntreprise.com parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF) parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: The purpose of Impress
mirek2 wrote > My rough draft: > The purpose of Impress is "to make it simple and quick to craft a slide > show to perfectly complement a speech." > Please comment on this. Hi Mirek, I always think of the ancient Greek and Roman forum and the idea of appealing to the masses; reaching out to touch others. Taking an idea and projecting it, both larger and to a wider audience. Impress is a sort of amphitheatre for the mind and skywriting stylus for the hand. It enhances live communication by augmenting and clarifying the conveyance of an idea. The cliché would be to say it "brings to life" ... but please do not go there. Another aspect I suppose is the ability of Impress (being libre / open) to transform communities by helping them assert a sense of unencumbered identity and value. This is moreso the case with the presentation component than any other component in an office suite. I personally feel this is an undersold aspect of much libre / open software. Community is another important aspect. Both are points of distinction from commercial products. It is unsurprising that Apple promotes "simple" and "beautiful" as those are their hallmarks. The Prezi statement is more interesting, focusing as it does on "enabling" and "conversations". I realise my offering here is all more marketing than features, such as the "quick" and "simple" in your original rough draft. I will be interested to see whether the overview / mission statement for Impress ends up being more marketing or feature based. My offering: Impress is a projector for your mind. Transform personal ideas effortlessly into visually compelling presentations for your community. Kind regards, Owen. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/The-purpose-of-Impress-tp4092904p4093386.html Sent from the Design mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: The purpose of Impress
mirek2 wrote > I like this idea, but more as a marketing message than a design goal. > The problems I see with it as a design goal: > a) I'd like to keep the audience generic, not limited to "your community". > b) I'd like to keep the topic generic, not limited to "personal ideas". > c) As stated in my previous message, I'd prefer to focus on complementing > speeches rather than replacing them. It sounds like your definition leans > toward the latter. > > Tell me if you disagree with any of these points, though. No disagreement. I am probably, as several others have commented, struggling with the design goal aspect. I will have a further think about it in UI / UX / behavioural, rather than tool capability, terms. I knew my response was more marketing, and indicated as much. Kind regards, Owen. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/The-purpose-of-Impress-tp4092904p4093583.html Sent from the Design mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: The purpose of Impress
Hello all! First time poster around here. A friend of mine is a Marketer and I could bring him along to the next IRC chat session. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/The-purpose-of-Impress-tp4092904p4093722.html Sent from the Design mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: The purpose of Impress
Le 2014-01-22 16:16, Mirek M. a écrit : I knew this was going to be brought up -- the word "complement" was chosen deliberately. Again, this is a question of focus. I'd really prefer to focus on creating the best speech complements rather than speech replacements, as, when given in conjunction with a speech, the latter tends to take focus away from the speech. If the slides are a full-on replacement, why is the presenter even there? Why not just autoplay the slides? That's not to say putting up only slides is worthless -- they often provide a good overview of the speech. That said, it's always better to provide the slides along with the talk (video or audio, or even transcript), and that tends to be the norm nowadays. I believe what you are describing is an outcome ideal and not a functional use of Impress. IMO, we have to be careful to not purpose Impress to a narrow definition as it may lead to a tool that is rendered of less use for those who use it for what it essentially does best, and, that of slideshow presentations. In education, we start school children experimenting with presentation software and later following with teaching them to complement their slideshows with speeches. It is only at the very end of their academic highschool years where we try to hone students skill sets at creating speeches that are in fact complemented by their slideshows. What you are basing your present ideal of the tool is the outcome of all of this training. Till now, Impress fits in well with this type of training and it would be sad to see Impress being given a design purpose that sits only well with an end outcome goal. IMO, giving Impress too narrow of a design purpose may result in having the very people who use it now to train early years students to look at using a different tool in primary/secondary school systems. It is pretty obvious to classroom teachers that tools used to teach young students are often times the tools they will use later on in life. I see no purpose in moving the design of Impress away from what most people see it as being a good standalone slideshow tool. However, I see every reason to see Impress given an added design emphasis of not only being a good quality slideshow tool, but also one that helps in ways to complement speeches, for example, add some way to store "presentation notes" that may be read off a second screen, while the first screen runs the slideshow; or a way to store notes that accompany a slideshow, and where these notes may be pulled later to read along with the slideshow etc.) We should be careful in giving any of our software too narrow a purpose definition, as we risk designing it for too narrow a slice of users/niche. Therein is where I would worry. Cheers, Marc -- Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com http://www.parEntreprise.com parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF) parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: The purpose of Impress
Hi Marc, 2014/1/19 Marc Paré > Hi Mirek, > > Le 2014-01-19 08:45, Mirek M. a écrit : > > Hi guys, >> In order to be able to effectively design and shape the future of >> LibreOffice modules, it is imperative that we define what these modules >> are >> for. Knowing the purpose of each module will help us focus on doing one >> thing well and avoid counterproductive feature creep. >> >> Since, out of all the modules, Impress's purpose might be one of the >> clearest, let's start with it. >> >> My rough draft: >> The purpose of Impress is "to make it simple and quick to craft a slide >> show to perfectly complement a speech." >> Please comment on this. >> >> I'd like to have the purpose decided on by the next IRC chat. >> >> > Sure, it can be be this, however, it should stand on its own merits > without the speech as well. In reality, most people will use it to > complement their speeches but also usually post it on some form of media > storage (cloud, website etc.) for people to download and to view themselves > without any accompanying speech. > > So, sure, it can complement speech, BUT, it is usually intended to stand > on its own merits for other people to read. > I knew this was going to be brought up -- the word "complement" was chosen deliberately. Again, this is a question of focus. I'd really prefer to focus on creating the best speech complements rather than speech replacements, as, when given in conjunction with a speech, the latter tends to take focus away from the speech. If the slides are a full-on replacement, why is the presenter even there? Why not just autoplay the slides? That's not to say putting up only slides is worthless -- they often provide a good overview of the speech. That said, it's always better to provide the slides along with the talk (video or audio, or even transcript), and that tends to be the norm nowadays. > > As for having this discussion on the marketing list ... we can make of the > Impress module whatever we decide, whether a fancy slideshow, support for > speech, entertainment package, photo repository, etc. > > IMO, for design purposes, defining the Impress function discussion is fine > on this list, but for the outside public, the marketing team should be > putting on the descriptive face of Impress -- advertising as a "one > function" module would not be in our best interest as it can serve many > functions. > Yes -- the marketing message is certainly up to you. :) > > Cheers, > > Marc > > > -- > Marc Paré > m...@marcpare.com > http://www.parEntreprise.com > parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF) > parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org > > > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- > unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: The purpose of Impress
Hi Owen, 2014/1/22 Owen Genat > mirek2 wrote > > My rough draft: > > The purpose of Impress is "to make it simple and quick to craft a slide > > show to perfectly complement a speech." > > Please comment on this. > > Hi Mirek, > I always think of the ancient Greek and Roman forum and the idea of > appealing to the masses; reaching out to touch others. Taking an idea and > projecting it, both larger and to a wider audience. Impress is a sort of > amphitheatre for the mind and skywriting stylus for the hand. It enhances > live communication by augmenting and clarifying the conveyance of an idea. > The cliché would be to say it "brings to life" ... but please do not go > there. > > Another aspect I suppose is the ability of Impress (being libre / open) to > transform communities by helping them assert a sense of unencumbered > identity and value. This is moreso the case with the presentation component > than any other component in an office suite. I personally feel this is an > undersold aspect of much libre / open software. Community is another > important aspect. Both are points of distinction from commercial products. > It is unsurprising that Apple promotes "simple" and "beautiful" as those > are > their hallmarks. The Prezi statement is more interesting, focusing as it > does on "enabling" and "conversations". > > I realise my offering here is all more marketing than features, such as the > "quick" and "simple" in your original rough draft. I will be interested to > see whether the overview / mission statement for Impress ends up being more > marketing or feature based. > > My offering: > Impress is a projector for your mind. Transform personal ideas effortlessly > into visually compelling presentations for your community. > I like this idea, but more as a marketing message than a design goal. The problems I see with it as a design goal: a) I'd like to keep the audience generic, not limited to "your community". b) I'd like to keep the topic generic, not limited to "personal ideas". c) As stated in my previous message, I'd prefer to focus on complementing speeches rather than replacing them. It sounds like your definition leans toward the latter. Tell me if you disagree with any of these points, though. > > Kind regards, Owen. > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/The-purpose-of-Impress-tp4092904p4093386.html > Sent from the Design mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: The purpose of Impress
Hi armandos, 2014/1/24 armandos > Hello all! First time poster around here. > A friend of mine is a Marketer and I could bring him along to the next IRC > chat session. > As said above, this isn't about a marketing message. He's welcome to join the marketing team, though. > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/The-purpose-of-Impress-tp4092904p4093722.html > Sent from the Design mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: The purpose of Impress
Hi Marc, On So, 2014-01-25 at 01:28 -0500, Marc Paré wrote: > Le 2014-01-22 16:16, Mirek M. a écrit : > > I knew this was going to be brought up -- the word "complement" was chosen > > deliberately. > > Again, this is a question of focus. > > I'd really prefer to focus on creating the best speech complements rather > > than speech replacements, as, when given in conjunction with a speech, the > > latter tends to take focus away from the speech. If the slides are a > > full-on replacement, why is the presenter even there? Why not just autoplay > > the slides? > > > > That's not to say putting up only slides is worthless -- they often provide > > a good overview of the speech. > > That said, it's always better to provide the slides along with the talk > > (video or audio, or even transcript), and that tends to be the norm > > nowadays. > > I believe what you are describing is an outcome ideal and not a > functional use of Impress. IMO, we have to be careful to not purpose > Impress to a narrow definition as it may lead to a tool that is rendered > of less use for those who use it for what it essentially does best, and, > that of slideshow presentations. > > In education, we start school children experimenting with presentation > software and later following with teaching them to complement their > slideshows with speeches. It is only at the very end of their academic > highschool years where we try to hone students skill sets at creating > speeches that are in fact complemented by their slideshows. > > What you are basing your present ideal of the tool is the outcome of all > of this training. Till now, Impress fits in well with this type of > training and it would be sad to see Impress being given a design purpose > that sits only well with an end outcome goal. > > IMO, giving Impress too narrow of a design purpose may result in having > the very people who use it now to train early years students to look at > using a different tool in primary/secondary school systems. It is pretty > obvious to classroom teachers that tools used to teach young students > are often times the tools they will use later on in life. > > I see no purpose in moving the design of Impress away from what most > people see it as being a good standalone slideshow tool. However, I see > every reason to see Impress given an added design emphasis of not only > being a good quality slideshow tool, but also one that helps in ways to > complement speeches, for example, add some way to store "presentation > notes" that may be read off a second screen, while the first screen runs > the slideshow; or a way to store notes that accompany a slideshow, and > where these notes may be pulled later to read along with the slideshow etc.) > > We should be careful in giving any of our software too narrow a purpose > definition, as we risk designing it for too narrow a slice of > users/niche. Therein is where I would worry. So, a couple of things: First of all, there IS a need to define whether Impress is meant to complement or replace speeches. If it is the latter, we should optimize Impress for autoplaying presentations without a speaker. Impress would essentially become animation software. If it is the former, we should optimize Impress for presentations controlled by the speaker. Right now, we're more optimized for complementing speeches. That's why Impress is slide-based rather than keyframe-based -- to allow the speaker to spend as much time as they want on each slide. You can see how the two can be at odds, and we should be clear on which use case to optimize for. If we don't optimize for either, we end up with software that is mediocre at both, and we get replaced by software that is focused -- animation software on one side, presentation software on the other. Second of all, as outlined above, optimizing software for a certain use-case doesn't mean that that software can't be used for other purposes. I myself have used Inkscape to craft presentations using the Sozi extension, and Inkscape definitely wasn't designed as a presentation editor. Thanks to our extensions and even to accidental use-cases that arise (e.g. Paint was never designed as a photo editor, yet I've seen people use it for that purpose), there will always be room for alternative uses. When I was in grade school, I was taught to use WordArt and ClipArt to create "fancy" documents. The reason why I was taught this wasn't because these features were in any way useful, but because they were part of the software suite we were supposed to be taught. The teacher just picked random features to teach us. If the software was more geared towards creating quality documents (rather than toward adding as many features as possible), perhaps I might have learned something useful instead. If we tweak something in Impress, the curriculum will change to accommodate those tweaks. After all, the end goal is still the same -- to craft a presentation to complement a
