Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Can we replace Floppy Disk
Hi Charles, Warren, all, Charles-H. Schulz said: Just FYI, we now have people on the discuss list asking how the decision was made, so can you confirm there was a new icon that was used in the Tango category? Hm, oh. Forgot announcing this on the design list, too, so: yes, we have a new icon for the Tango theme, as anyone who has used 3.5 beta 3+ can confirm. The decision to go forward with the new icon kind of came about on the ux-advise list. (By the way, it might help if a few more design people were there to help out developers who are unsure about how to get the user experience for new features right.) See here: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-ux-advise/2012-January/000709.html . The new icon is thanks to two fantastic Gnome people, Lapo Calamandrei and Jakub Steiner, who were kind enough to relicense this icon for us. Warren Camilleri wrote: if i may barge in and put my 2 cents, working in an environment surrounded by simple users the floppy icon is well known as the save button, but for me its iconic to say from where it all began to today evolution of memory, and to play even more safe the gnome one is even more fantastic but i would ad folder in the draw as if you are saving more records... That might work on a larger resolution, but for this level of detail the icon is probably too small. Although, if you want to have a go at adding that, the source SVG is here: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/icon-themes/tango/cmd/lc_save.svg also the floppy is somewhat and international standard, its already hard to push for simple users to switch with their fears of understanding change but it is better to make even more familiar for them. Right, but the Save icon is so prominent in the interface that I believe people will learn it. If there's a massive backlash against the icon, we might need to consider how we can make it better in 3.6/later in the 3.5... cycle. For 3.5.0, I'd say we'd best just leave it in. Astron. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Can we replace Floppy Disk
Why? I love the floppy disk! It's nostalgic! So what! Not that it is too important but I always thought that this is one of the nicest icons of all... Best Christopher On 23.01.2012 11:11, Stefan Knorr (Astron) wrote: Hi Charles, Warren, all, Charles-H. Schulz said: Just FYI, we now have people on the discuss list asking how the decision was made, so can you confirm there was a new icon that was used in the Tango category? Hm, oh. Forgot announcing this on the design list, too, so: yes, we have a new icon for the Tango theme, as anyone who has used 3.5 beta 3+ can confirm. The decision to go forward with the new icon kind of came about on the ux-advise list. (By the way, it might help if a few more design people were there to help out developers who are unsure about how to get the user experience for new features right.) See here: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-ux-advise/2012-January/000709.html . The new icon is thanks to two fantastic Gnome people, Lapo Calamandrei and Jakub Steiner, who were kind enough to relicense this icon for us. Warren Camilleri wrote: if i may barge in and put my 2 cents, working in an environment surrounded by simple users the floppy icon is well known as the save button, but for me its iconic to say from where it all began to today evolution of memory, and to play even more safe the gnome one is even more fantastic but i would ad folder in the draw as if you are saving more records... That might work on a larger resolution, but for this level of detail the icon is probably too small. Although, if you want to have a go at adding that, the source SVG is here: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/icon-themes/tango/cmd/lc_save.svg also the floppy is somewhat and international standard, its already hard to push for simple users to switch with their fears of understanding change but it is better to make even more familiar for them. Right, but the Save icon is so prominent in the interface that I believe people will learn it. If there's a massive backlash against the icon, we might need to consider how we can make it better in 3.6/later in the 3.5... cycle. For 3.5.0, I'd say we'd best just leave it in. Astron. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Can we replace Floppy Disk
Hi Guys, if i may barge in and put my 2 cents, working in an environment surrounded by simple users the floppy icon is well known as the save button, but for me its iconic to say from where it all began to today evolution of memory, and to play even more safe the gnome one is even more fantastic but i would ad folder in the draw as if you are saving more records... which brought me back to my schooldays and breaking into my headmasters office to have an idea of the upcoming exams questions and answers from his file cabinet... (i sure that brings back memories for most.) also the floppy is somewhat and international standard, its already hard to push for simple users to switch with their fears of understanding change but it is better to make even more familiar for them. so my vote is no to the change of the icon. -- Warren Camilleri Founding Father Mobile: +356 7991 2004 Skype: ossmalta | Twitter: warren_oss Also a member of MLUG, The Document Foundation, Ubuntu Malta - Original Message - From: Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org To: design@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Sunday, 22 January, 2012 11:19:25 PM Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Can we replace Floppy Disk Hi, Just FYI, we now have people on the discuss list asking how the decision was made, so can you confirm there was a new icon that was used in the Tango category? Thank you, Charles. 2011/12/31 alexander.wilms alexander.wi...@zoho.com Hi all, since we want to avoid to use outdated hardware as a symbol we should exclude the icons displaying hard drives as well. Alex On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:40:19 +0100 Stefan Knorr (Astron) lt;heinzless...@googlemail.comgt; wrote Hi everyone, On 31 December 2011 11:39, alexander.wilms lt;alexander.wi...@zoho.comgt; wrote: gt; The designers of the Linux distribution elementary OS had the same discussion some time ago and they came up with a document icon with an arrow that points to the bottom: gt; gt; http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/2755/7zq47tgh_png.htm We also have the following variations: Gnome 3 (almost Tango): http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-icon-theme/plain/gnome/256x256/actions/document-save.png (large size for toolbar: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-icon-theme/plain/gnome/24x24/actions/document-save.png ) Upstream Tango: http://web.archive.org/web/20081112055133im_/http://tango.freedesktop.org/images/2/20/Tango-feet.png (For the smaller icons, see the ~middle of the second row, for the larger icons see the icons near the end of the second row.) Ubuntu/Human (-ity) (not Tango, but designed to be about compatible): http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D1EpnOVJuA8/TPUebzxfoqI/DTw/K7fm7gzEGEQ/s1600/abiword01.png (third icon). * Of the three variation, the Gnome icon is actually my favourite, because it has a bit of depth and (I think) communicates the idea of storing best. Sadly, we can't directly import it, because it's LGPL3/CC-BY-SA only. * We could import the upstream Tango icon (it's public domain), but it doesn't have much depth and the fact that the white-ish thing in there is actually a hard drive doesn't come across very well. * Ubuntu's icon does have a better rendering of the hard disk, but is LGPL only, and not a Tango icon. (Gnome 2's Tango theme had a very similar icon – green, not orange arrow, slightly different drive – but that probably had the same license as their current icon.) * Lastly, the Elementary icon is, I believe, pretty bad at communicating anything. Even its elegance can't really make up for this. I haven't researched the license, but it's probably LGPL as well..? These are opinions only, so feel free to disagree. If anyone wants to work on this, you're welcome to do so. Astron. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Can we replace Floppy Disk
The designers of the Linux distribution elementary OS had the same discussion some time ago and they came up with a document icon with an arrow that points to the bottom: http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/2755/7zq47tgh_png.htm Your opinions? Alex On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 06:38:13 +0100 Andrew Pullins lt;android2...@gmail.comgt; wrote I have been wondering that as well. I think that it is funny that we still use the floppy disc as the save button. I think that it should be changed as well, but the icon is used in every program ever. so even though people may not know what it is they know that the button saves there work. what would we use as a new icon? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Can we replace Floppy Disk
Hi everyone, On 31 December 2011 11:39, alexander.wilms alexander.wi...@zoho.com wrote: The designers of the Linux distribution elementary OS had the same discussion some time ago and they came up with a document icon with an arrow that points to the bottom: http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/2755/7zq47tgh_png.htm We also have the following variations: Gnome 3 (almost Tango): http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-icon-theme/plain/gnome/256x256/actions/document-save.png (large size for toolbar: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-icon-theme/plain/gnome/24x24/actions/document-save.png ) Upstream Tango: http://web.archive.org/web/20081112055133im_/http://tango.freedesktop.org/images/2/20/Tango-feet.png (For the smaller icons, see the ~middle of the second row, for the larger icons see the icons near the end of the second row.) Ubuntu/Human (-ity) (not Tango, but designed to be about compatible): http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D1EpnOVJuA8/TPUebzxfoqI/DTw/K7fm7gzEGEQ/s1600/abiword01.png (third icon). * Of the three variation, the Gnome icon is actually my favourite, because it has a bit of depth and (I think) communicates the idea of storing best. Sadly, we can't directly import it, because it's LGPL3/CC-BY-SA only. * We could import the upstream Tango icon (it's public domain), but it doesn't have much depth and the fact that the white-ish thing in there is actually a hard drive doesn't come across very well. * Ubuntu's icon does have a better rendering of the hard disk, but is LGPL only, and not a Tango icon. (Gnome 2's Tango theme had a very similar icon – green, not orange arrow, slightly different drive – but that probably had the same license as their current icon.) * Lastly, the Elementary icon is, I believe, pretty bad at communicating anything. Even its elegance can't really make up for this. I haven't researched the license, but it's probably LGPL as well..? These are opinions only, so feel free to disagree. If anyone wants to work on this, you're welcome to do so. Astron. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Can we replace Floppy Disk
Hi all, since we want to avoid to use outdated hardware as a symbol we should exclude the icons displaying hard drives as well. Alex On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:40:19 +0100 Stefan Knorr (Astron) lt;heinzless...@googlemail.comgt; wrote Hi everyone, On 31 December 2011 11:39, alexander.wilms lt;alexander.wi...@zoho.comgt; wrote: gt; The designers of the Linux distribution elementary OS had the same discussion some time ago and they came up with a document icon with an arrow that points to the bottom: gt; gt; http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/2755/7zq47tgh_png.htm We also have the following variations: Gnome 3 (almost Tango): http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-icon-theme/plain/gnome/256x256/actions/document-save.png (large size for toolbar: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-icon-theme/plain/gnome/24x24/actions/document-save.png ) Upstream Tango: http://web.archive.org/web/20081112055133im_/http://tango.freedesktop.org/images/2/20/Tango-feet.png (For the smaller icons, see the ~middle of the second row, for the larger icons see the icons near the end of the second row.) Ubuntu/Human (-ity) (not Tango, but designed to be about compatible): http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D1EpnOVJuA8/TPUebzxfoqI/DTw/K7fm7gzEGEQ/s1600/abiword01.png (third icon). * Of the three variation, the Gnome icon is actually my favourite, because it has a bit of depth and (I think) communicates the idea of storing best. Sadly, we can't directly import it, because it's LGPL3/CC-BY-SA only. * We could import the upstream Tango icon (it's public domain), but it doesn't have much depth and the fact that the white-ish thing in there is actually a hard drive doesn't come across very well. * Ubuntu's icon does have a better rendering of the hard disk, but is LGPL only, and not a Tango icon. (Gnome 2's Tango theme had a very similar icon – green, not orange arrow, slightly different drive – but that probably had the same license as their current icon.) * Lastly, the Elementary icon is, I believe, pretty bad at communicating anything. Even its elegance can't really make up for this. I haven't researched the license, but it's probably LGPL as well..? These are opinions only, so feel free to disagree. If anyone wants to work on this, you're welcome to do so. Astron. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Can we replace Floppy Disk
Erich Christian wrote (30-12-11 11:45) I'd go for a change, neither elderly people nor 'youngsters' associate anything useful with the symbol. Having asked my teenagers (13, 16, 19) who are familiar with computers ever since, they cannot remember floppy although I've been using some until a couple of years ago and also their machines came with floppy slots for long... IMO most important question is what people look for if they want to store something. For me that would be a Ctrl-S-icon ;-) And I guess ... for most other it is the well known icon ?! -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Can we replace Floppy Disk
I have been wondering that as well. I think that it is funny that we still use the floppy disc as the save button. I think that it should be changed as well, but the icon is used in every program ever. so even though people may not know what it is they know that the button saves there work. what would we use as a new icon? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
