Re: [Design-team] Hands-on: new single-window mode makes GIMP less gimpy
Hey John, On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 1:09 PM, John Poelstra wrote: > William Jon McCann said the following on 02/10/2010 >> >> We should try not to be haters because Ubuntu is doing so well. They >> are really focusing as a project - that is commendable. And something >> that so far Fedora has failed to do - actually *refused* to do. >> >> We should also probably consider debranding Fedora hosted so it isn't >> as distasteful to people looking for a sourceforge alternative. >> >> This is all well within reach folks. Just have to make the right choices. >> :) >> > > Well put! > > Any idea on how do we help Fedora to *make some choices* and focus? > > It seems to me that is where we are most stuck. > > It seems that people are either critical of "choices being made for them" or > too afraid of wrong choices being made by others. That puts the people in > leadership in a "loose loose" situation. Yup, I know. It isn't easy. There is a simple glib answer and it is something like "it takes some guts." But then the more complete and compelling answer is unfortunately also much more complicated. We should chat sometime. Do you ever come to Westford? There are dozens of decisions made or that should be made every day as we think about what experiences we want to provide. Every day I have a list of literally dozens of things that I could use help with as we try to design the experience of using Fedora. I'd really love to be able to get help from the Project for these things. Sadly, when we ask, more often than not we get responses of the form - "that's fine if Desktop wants that but Fedora is something else." Making decisions is hard. We know this. Any decision has the potential to fail - this is true. However, failing to make decisions (out of fear) will simply guarantee failure or even worse - render you completely irrelevant. For now, the world trusts us and looks to us to lead. They expect it and it is our job. This trust is a great responsibility that none of us take lightly. But it won't last forever. It is really unfortunate that at the same time so many of us are leaders in the larger open source world - we have failed to gain the support of our own project. I think there is plenty of blame to go around - on all sides - including mine. It is a heartbreaking reality. I don't really understand what all the fuss is about, to be honest. I look around and I don't really see that many incompatible points of view. Not that many truly compelling alternative visions. Sure, lots of bickering and sniping and personality conflicts and grudges. Far too much of that. But what else, once you look past that? Do we really disagree that Fedora can and should be the best general purpose Operating System (not distro) in the world? At the heart of it I think we all agree on that. Do we need a target audience for that? Honestly, I doubt it. Does this mean we have to cater to a certain type of person? Of course not. An Operating System is one of the most easily adaptable technologies ever developed. That isn't the challenge. The real challenge we face is: can we be relevant? Can we prove that desktop Linux has legs beyond techno geeks, outside the niche, outside the server room? I'll tell you right now, the answer is no - unless we can all work together. And I think it is time we start. Jon ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
Re: [Design-team] Hands-on: new single-window mode makes GIMP less gimpy
Hey dudes, On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, Feb 07, 2010 at 11:41:20AM -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote: >> On Fri, 2010-02-05 at 10:28 +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: >> > http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2010/02/hands-on-new-single-window-mode-makes-gimp-less-gimpy.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss >> > >> > Can't wait to get my hands on single-windows GIMP! >> >> I want that so bad! >> >> I do think the example photo in the screenshots is in poor taste, >> though. :) > > I guess it would depend on whether people in the picture worked on the > new single window mode of GIMP. If so, good on them! If not, shame > on the editors for creating that impression. I'm assuming we're talking about the Ubuntu group shots. I don't think there is a conspiracy. Probably more like this: Ryan Paul (segphault) wrote the review. He also works on Gwibber. Gwibber is hosted in launchpad. He likely been to a number of UDSs. This photo is probably from one of those. Gwibber seems to be a key feature of the upcoming Lucid release. He's probably also a big Ubuntu fan - like most geeks. We should try not to be haters because Ubuntu is doing so well. They are really focusing as a project - that is commendable. And something that so far Fedora has failed to do - actually *refused* to do. We should also probably consider debranding Fedora hosted so it isn't as distasteful to people looking for a sourceforge alternative. This is all well within reach folks. Just have to make the right choices. :) Jon ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
Re: [Design-team] Wallpapers guidelines draft
Hi, On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:02 AM, Nicu Buculei wrote: > On 08/08/2009 05:13 PM, William Jon McCann wrote: >> 2009/8/7 Máirín Duffy: >>> On Fri, 2009-08-07 at 19:41 -0400, William Jon McCann wrote: >>>> All submissions or contributions: >>>> >>> [ snip ] >>> This section is great, no comments - well one suggestion, we could call >>> out good sources of appropriately-licensed image sources. >>> >>>> Subject matter: >>>> >>>> * Must not contain brand names or trademarks of any kind >>>> >>>> * Must not contain material that is inappropriate, offensive, >>>> indecent, obscene, hateful, tortuous, defamatory, slanderous or >>>> libelous >>>> - No sexually explicit or provocative subject matter >>>> - No images of weapons or violent imagery >>>> - No alcohol, smoking, or drug use imagery > > > No weapons would have ruled out Samuele's Invinxible from F10 (which was > very popular until we learned about its licensing problems) and would > probably rule out Jayme's Constantine. > However, I don't see the sword in Constantine's hand (in Jayme's > wallpaper proposal) as a weapon, but as a leadership symbol. Yes it would rule them out. As it should. A leadership symbol to the victorious is a symbol of oppression, conquest, or death to the rest. Again, simply not something we should be associating ourselves with. >>>> * Should not contain images of people (contemporary, historical, or >>>> fictional) > > I thought the "no images of people" is due to extra legal troubles (need > for signed model release forms and such). I think if the legal steps are > followed, then people should be fine. > > For example I think Ubuntu's "circle of friends" was brillinat for its > time: > http://media.photobucket.com/image/ubuntu%20%252522circle%20of%20friends%252522/chrispollard/background.jpg > > Highly controversial, yes, but this was part of what made it brilliant. That was never used as a default background. I don't think we should be in the Politically Correct people of the world business. We are not Benetton. There is a good rationale for why body parts and people are not a great idea here: http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/icons-design.html.en >>> Why is this? What about characters? The human figure? The human figure >>> abstracted? >> >> That would be fine as long as the character doesn't convey a message >> or ideology, give the appearance of preferring a specific region, >> culture, race, politics, religion, etc. We should make this more >> clear I suppose. An invented character without any of those >> attributes should be fine. > > Characters are good: Tatica's "kids" concept is awesome > (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tatadbb/3723154997/). Myself, I had really > fun time creating characters for my comic. If Zod was not FC6 but now, I > can think of the characters we would play with... > >>>> * Should not contain images of pets, or captive or mistreated animals >>> >>> The latter part I understand, but I'm unsure of the concern with images >>> of pets. E.g., a horse could be considered a pet and Samuele submitted >>> some very nice imagery with horses... e.g. if we're just trying to avoid >>> the flickr-zomg-look-at-my-cat syndrome we should just call it out... >>> but we've never had a problem with people submitting pictures of their >>> cat. >> >> If the animal is in a domestic or beast of burden setting I think we >> are best to avoid it. If the horse does not appear with a saddle, >> reins, in a corral, etc it can be assumed to be a wild horse - and >> that would be fine. This is a very subtle issue. This goes to one of >> the "experience tones" (adjective list) I mention below. "unfettered" > > Here I was expecting again a legal background: to use photos of > someone's pet, you may need signed property release forms. > >>>> Specific guidelines. >>>> >>> >>> I wouldn't consider these guidelines so much as suggestions or ideas... >> >> Actually, I do consider them guidelines. I think these should be the >> way we focus what is produced and submitted, and also the criteria for >> how we judge them. >> >>>> * Default background: >>>> * The following adjectives should be used to select an appropriate >>>> design: >>>> - Fresh >>>> - Light >>&g
Re: [Design-team] Updated desktop background survey
Hi, On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Nicu Buculei wrote: > On 08/10/2009 11:24 AM, Cata wrote: >> How i logging on this ? >> I have a beautifull image ... > > Since this is intended only for testing the functionality, you have to > ask one of the gallery admins (me or Mo) for an account (one of the > items in my wishlist is FAS integration, so the accounts are automated, > but we are not there...) > Right. So this is one of the problems with this approach. We want our pool of contributors to be larger than the FAS user set and much larger than the set of people that would be interested in asking for permission for an account and then having to move their photos from flickr into this gallery. Jon ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
Re: [Design-team] Updated desktop background survey
Hi, On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:10 AM, Nicu Buculei wrote: > On 08/08/2009 02:44 AM, William Jon McCann wrote: >> >> I have updated the desktop background survey I started last year with >> some of the artwork that has appeared in the meantime. >> >> http://www.gnome.org/~mccann/art/State%20of%20the%20Art%20-%20Wallpapers%20-%202009-08-07.pdf >> >> Hope you find it interesting. > > I think it may be more interesting if in addition of a large but dry > dump of image it would contain some analysis. Like for example how > openSUSE does inblude a large group of photos (which are not always of > the greatest quality) and how Ubuntu used to be simplistic but > consistent with browns (and now it exploring fro ways to include a large > number of photos too). > But being *your* article, it should include *your* analysis, since > probably each of us has different points of view. Right. This was the point of only presenting the data without bias. I'm just reporting here. Let's hear some analysis from everyone - not just me. Thanks, Jon ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
Re: [Design-team] Wallpapers guidelines draft
Hey, Some comments inline and a new draft attached. 2009/8/7 Máirín Duffy : > On Fri, 2009-08-07 at 19:41 -0400, William Jon McCann wrote: > >> >> All submissions or contributions: >> > [ snip ] > This section is great, no comments - well one suggestion, we could call > out good sources of appropriately-licensed image sources. > >> Subject matter: >> >> * Must not contain brand names or trademarks of any kind >> >> * Must not contain material that is inappropriate, offensive, >> indecent, obscene, hateful, tortuous, defamatory, slanderous or >> libelous >> - No sexually explicit or provocative subject matter >> - No images of weapons or violent imagery >> - No alcohol, smoking, or drug use imagery >> >> * Must not contain material that promotes bigotry, racism, hatred or >> harm against any group or individual or promotes discrimination based >> on race, gender, religion, nationality, disability, sexual orientation >> or age >> >> * Must not contain material that is unlawful, in violation of or >> contrary to the laws or regulations in the jurisdiction where the work >> is created >> >> * No religious, political, or nationalist imagery (including flags) >> >> * No images of hats, particularly fedoras. >> This is a matter of respect for our primary sponsor, Red Hat, Inc., >> and is not negotiable. Of course, passive appearance of hats, such as >> those upon heads in a crowd, may be allowed. >> >> * No version numbers. >> End users might prefer to continue to use an older theme, or use >> the latest theme in their older version of Fedora. To enable that >> choice, do not use any version numbers within the Fedora artwork. > > this section is great up to here >> >> * No text. >> Text should not be used in the backgrounds because the artwork is >> intended for a global audience and to be reused by derivative >> distributions. > > This is reasonable, but artistic use of type is permitted and should > probably be specifically called out here. That's fine. This part was copied mostly from the current guidelines. >> * Should not contain images of people (contemporary, historical, or >> fictional) >> > > Why is this? What about characters? The human figure? The human figure > abstracted? That would be fine as long as the character doesn't convey a message or ideology, give the appearance of preferring a specific region, culture, race, politics, religion, etc. We should make this more clear I suppose. An invented character without any of those attributes should be fine. >> * Should not contain images of pets, or captive or mistreated animals > > The latter part I understand, but I'm unsure of the concern with images > of pets. E.g., a horse could be considered a pet and Samuele submitted > some very nice imagery with horses... e.g. if we're just trying to avoid > the flickr-zomg-look-at-my-cat syndrome we should just call it out... > but we've never had a problem with people submitting pictures of their > cat. If the animal is in a domestic or beast of burden setting I think we are best to avoid it. If the horse does not appear with a saddle, reins, in a corral, etc it can be assumed to be a wild horse - and that would be fine. This is a very subtle issue. This goes to one of the "experience tones" (adjective list) I mention below. "unfettered" >> Technical requirements: >> >> * Must use a format that can be read by software available in Fedora >> Package Collection >> Preferred image formats include SVG and PNG. Master files, which >> may be further edited, should be maintained in non-lossy formats. >> Preserving vector graphics, raster layers, and channels is important >> for such materials. > > I would word it slightly differently, maybe break it out into proposals > vs. source files. Source files are required. Proposals should be in PNG > irregardless of whether or not it's vector or bitmap. Source files must > be SVG for vector format submissions and XCF or compressed XCF (xcf.bz2 > or xcf.gz). Sure sounds ok, except let's say "regardless" there. This part was mostly copied from the current guidelines. > We also require that any source images, brushes, textures, etc. used in > the design must be cited individually, referenced properly (download > site, author, license), and be under a license compatible with CC-BY-SA. Sure, sounds fine too. >> * Originals for landscape formats must be a minimum of 1600 pixels >> wide and 1200 pixels high >> The larger the better. Photographic s
[Design-team] Updated desktop background survey
Hey, I have updated the desktop background survey I started last year with some of the artwork that has appeared in the meantime. http://www.gnome.org/~mccann/art/State%20of%20the%20Art%20-%20Wallpapers%20-%202009-08-07.pdf Additions: * Windows 7 * Palm Pre * Andriod SDK * Ubuntu (2) * Fedora (2) Hope you find it interesting. Thanks, Jon ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
[Design-team] Wallpapers guidelines draft
Hey, So as we discussed on IRC. Attached is a draft of some guidelines for artwork submissions and specifically desktop background contributions. Parts of it are derived from the existing guidelines [1]. I'm hoping this will help us: * Clearly define the legal rules for submitted works * Give some more explicit guidance to potential contributors * Establish some general guidelines to frame the decision making process What do you think? Thanks, Jon [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork#Fedora_Artwork_Guidelines All submissions or contributions: * Must be covered by the Contributor License Agreement. We cannot accept contributions from individuals who have not signed the CLA in the Fedora Account System. The CLA allows us to properly license artwork submissions for distribution with Fedora and other Fedora projects. * Must not contain material that violates or infringes another’s rights, including but not limited to privacy, publicity or intellectual property rights, or that constitutes copyright infringement; If your submissions include or derive from artwork created by other people, please make sure the license of the original work you incorporate is compatible with Fedora and that you are not violating any of the provisions of its license. Just because a work is licensed with a Creative Commons license does not mean it is free to use (make sure you provide attribution to artists that license their work with a CC Attribution clause.) * Should have the consent and approval of the author or creator * Are thereby licensed to the public for reuse under CC-BY-SA unless specifically identified as being licensed by another approved liberal open source license. Subject matter: * Must not contain brand names or trademarks of any kind * Must not contain material that is inappropriate, offensive, indecent, obscene, hateful, tortuous, defamatory, slanderous or libelous - No sexually explicit or provocative subject matter - No images of weapons or violent imagery - No alcohol, smoking, or drug use imagery * Must not contain material that promotes bigotry, racism, hatred or harm against any group or individual or promotes discrimination based on race, gender, religion, nationality, disability, sexual orientation or age * Must not contain material that is unlawful, in violation of or contrary to the laws or regulations in the jurisdiction where the work is created * No religious, political, or nationalist imagery (including flags) * No images of hats, particularly fedoras. This is a matter of respect for our primary sponsor, Red Hat, Inc., and is not negotiable. Of course, passive appearance of hats, such as those upon heads in a crowd, may be allowed. * No version numbers. End users might prefer to continue to use an older theme, or use the latest theme in their older version of Fedora. To enable that choice, do not use any version numbers within the Fedora artwork. * No text. Text should not be used in the backgrounds because the artwork is intended for a global audience and to be reused by derivative distributions. * Should not contain images of people (contemporary, historical, or fictional) * Should not contain images of pets, or captive or mistreated animals Technical requirements: * Must use a format that can be read by software available in Fedora Package Collection Preferred image formats include SVG and PNG. Master files, which may be further edited, should be maintained in non-lossy formats. Preserving vector graphics, raster layers, and channels is important for such materials. * Originals for landscape formats must be a minimum of 1600 pixels wide and 1200 pixels high The larger the better. Photographic submissions should be made at the highest resolution the camera is capable of. * Should be provided in a 16 x 9 aspect ratio * No watermarks, signatures, photographer/creator names, or messages may be included in any part of the work Composition: * Should strive for subtlety and poetry * Avoid high frequency images (http://forensicphotoshop.blogspot.com/2009/04/low-frequency-vs-high-frequency.html) - A soft focus is one way to achieve this * As the name suggests, visually, it should settle into the "background" of the activity scene. * Fewer details on left side allows for good readability for primary icons on the desktop. - Keep in mind that many users have icons covering the entire desktop view. * Do not compete for the user's attention Specific guidelines. * Default background: * The following adjectives should be used to select an appropriate design: - Fresh - Light - Calm - Clean - Modern - Harmonious - Unfettered - Elegant - Graceful - Hopeful - Delightful * Additional Themes: * May use following categories: - Nature - Landscapes - Cosmos - Scenes - (Region/country specific content) http://en.wikipedia.org
Re: [Design-team] Fedora 12 Design Schedule
Hey, Máirín - I'm not sure I understand why you react this way to input from the people designing the desktop. 2009/7/14 Máirín Duffy : > On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 12:53 -0400, William Jon McCann wrote: >> Hey, >> >> On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 4:33 PM, John Poelstra wrote: >> ... >> > For ease of reference here is the list: >> > Fullscreen splash for syslinux >> > Fullscreen grub splash >> > Square splash for anaconda and firstboot >> > Anaconda horizontal header >> > Firstboot vertical header >> > Package Splash Screens >> >> For the desktop spin I don't think we want to continue making new >> versions of these each release. Especially now that we have a >> plymouth screen that isn't rethemed every release I think we can just >> make one and reuse it from now on. Or maybe we don't need some of >> these at all. > > The plymouth / startup splash is not mentioned in the above quoted list. I think you misunderstood me. > We need a syslinux and a grub splash. The syslinux splash is the first > thing a user sees when they pop a live CD or usb key in their system. > When this looks very nice, it helps us give a good first impression, > quite frequently to first-time Fedora users as many try Fedora out from > live media first. The grub splash shows up I think in particular > scenarios - we had talked about removing it entirely for F11 but found > out there are some cases where it pops up and something is needed. I am > sorry that I cannot remember them off the top of my head but you might > find them in the list archives around the F10 beta freeze. This doesn't seem like a reason to theme them differently for each release to me. > We could just make generic headers for anaconda and firstboot, but then > it becomes more difficult to know what you're actually installing while > you're installing it. I think it's good for the different versions to be > distinctive because then you have a better idea of what it is you are > looking at. We do not mind making these splashes every release. Also, to > be clear, what I'm talking about is the vertical banner in first boot > and the horizontal top banner in anaconda.The 'fedora' splash used in > both anaconda and firstboot has been the same since F8 though. It just > has the Fedora logo and packages. This seems like a very weak reason. The internal code name is not even the name of the release and will very unlikely have any connection for the user. If we are relying on the banner image to identify the release we're doing it wrong I think. In part because the image won't scale properly by display size. Text is much more useful for indentifying the release version. >> > kdm login screen theme >> >> We don't need this for the desktop spin. > > This schedule is for the design team, not for the desktop spin. The KDE > spin does need this splash, so we help produce it for them. We work on > designs for all of Fedora, all spins including KDE and Electronics Lab > and EDU, as well as the main website and various web applications. I'm commenting from the Desktop design perspective here. >> > gnome splash screen >> > kde splash screen >> > gnome screensaver lock dialog >> >> Not used in the desktop spin. > > These are prioritized extremely low. We usually don't do these until the > last minute when we get complains about them missing - and whether or > not they get done is up to the time/interest of the designers around at > the time. There are in fact many users who go into gconf and turn on the > GNOME splash screen. I really don't understand why, but the graphic is > easy enough to do for them. >> >> > Start Alpha Freeze >> > Software String Freeze >> > Create Alpha Website Banner >> > Alpha Release Readiness Meeting >> > Alpha Public Availability >> >> Not relevant to the desktop spin. > > These are important to the design team, which is why they are on the > design team schedule. >> >> I still think, for now, it makes sense to create a new desktop >> background for each release. But it would be great if we can >> implement Window 7 style slideshows as well. Also, I'm still very >> skeptical about the value of relying on the internal code name for the >> release to determine the visual design of the wallpaper. > > It would definitely be nice if a user could say choose their Pictures > folder or a subfolder of their pictures folder and choose to make a > slideshow of that. That would be a great feature. Unfortunately we are > mostly just artists and not able to implement such a feat
Re: [Design-team] Fedora 12 Design Schedule
Hey, On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 4:33 PM, John Poelstra wrote: ... > For ease of reference here is the list: > Fullscreen splash for syslinux > Fullscreen grub splash > Square splash for anaconda and firstboot > Anaconda horizontal header > Firstboot vertical header > Package Splash Screens For the desktop spin I don't think we want to continue making new versions of these each release. Especially now that we have a plymouth screen that isn't rethemed every release I think we can just make one and reuse it from now on. Or maybe we don't need some of these at all. > kdm login screen theme We don't need this for the desktop spin. > gnome splash screen > kde splash screen > gnome screensaver lock dialog Not used in the desktop spin. > Start Alpha Freeze > Software String Freeze > Create Alpha Website Banner > Alpha Release Readiness Meeting > Alpha Public Availability Not relevant to the desktop spin. I still think, for now, it makes sense to create a new desktop background for each release. But it would be great if we can implement Window 7 style slideshows as well. Also, I'm still very skeptical about the value of relying on the internal code name for the release to determine the visual design of the wallpaper. Jon ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
Re: [Design-team] Building Brand Together
Hi, On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: > gnu boi wrote: >> http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/06/building-brand-together.html > > As I already wrote on IRC, I don't think this offer is of much value to > Fedora at this point because we don't have our logo in the wallpaper anyway > (to make things easier for remixes and other derived distributions). So if > we really wanted to ship upstream wallpapers, we could just ship them as > they are, there's no need to have upstream spend time on rebranding them. > We have other reasons for using our own default wallpapers (e.g. > consistency across the multiple desktops we ship, and also GRUB, Plymouth > etc.). > > There are also other issues, like what to do when we upgrade KDE to a new > version: do we allow the default wallpaper to change in the middle of a > Fedora release? Do we stay with the old one, shipping e.g. KDE 4.4 with the > KDE 4.3 default wallpaper? If I were working on a KDE desktop that is based on Fedora packages the first thing I would do is make sure I differentiate it from Fedora since Fedora is a GNOME based project - and that is not going to change. First thing I would do is give it a name. Having a different name does a few things for you: it gives you search engine exposure, it allows people to actually talk about your project, it makes it clear that it is different from what people expect from Fedora, and it allows you to build your own brand identity. This is not a new idea - Kubuntu has been doing this for years now. Eventually, the Fedora board will realize that today's conception of spins is a failed experiment and force this change. I'd encourage projects based on Fedora to do this voluntarily before this occurs. Jon ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
[Design-team] More on Windows 7 themes
FYI. Another awesome blog post from the Windows 7 team... more food for thought. http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/06/03/creating-saving-sharing-themes-in-windows-7.aspx Jon ___ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
