[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Bug Watch Updater]

** Changed in: nautilus
   Importance: Unknown => Wishlist

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Fred]

I can confirm that this has indeed been fixed in Maverick.
However, I believe the contrast difference is too low.
It is not very noticeable.
The effect is too subtle.

It could be made more obvious/clearer.

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Launchpad Bug Tracker]

This bug was fixed in the package nautilus - 1:2.31.6-0ubuntu1

---
nautilus (1:2.31.6-0ubuntu1) maverick; urgency=low

  * New upstream version:
- This release is based on 2.30.1
- Expand and collapse folders with +/- in list view
- Rename .desktop files also change their name on disk
- Support overriding .gnome2 directory
- Save passwords for the session by default
- Remove deleted folders from the pathbar (lp: #19069)
- Replace libunique with GApplication
- Don't show 'File Browser' anymore in the window title
- Port to GDBus
- Change the default order for files in special directories (lp: #404150)
- Support relative paths in the location entry/dialog.
- Use folder icons as window icons in browser and spatial mode (lp: #43608)
- Add 'Trashed On' and 'Original Location' columns in the trash
  (lp: #301552)
- Implement transparent icons for cut files (lp: #194213)
- Change default thumbnail size
- Fix a number of bugs related to bookmarks (lp: #534043)
- New dialog to handle conflicts within file copy/move operations
  (lp: #136702, #263338)
- New button in the trashbar to restore selected items (lp: #553600)
- Use async I/O to save .gtk-bookmarks
- Fix a number of issues related to DnD in the places sidebar (lp: #73031)
- New icon for audio preview
- Don't show Unmount when showing Eject/Safe Removal
- Bump libnautilus-extension API version
- Fix a number of UI glitches
- Translation updates
- Eat Control + v to not enable type ahead  (lp: #52131)
  * Updated .install files for the gir
  * debian/control.in:
- build-depends on dh-autoreconf, gobject-introspection and required gir
- don't use libunique and libdbus-glib
- list the new gir1.0-nautilus-2.0 binary
- updated the gtk and glib requirements
  * debian/patches/16_hide_unmount.patch,
debian/patches/git_browser_title_cleaning.patch,
debian/patches/git_clean_by_name_rename.patch,
debian/patches/git_correct_delay_logic.patch,
debian/patches/git_correct_display_name.patch,
debian/patches/git_correctly_set_default.patch,
debian/patches/git_ctrlq_close.patch,
debian/patches/git_default_thumbnails.patch,
debian/patches/git_double_click_launcher.patch,
debian/patches/git_no_double_browse_entry.patch,
debian/patches/git_store_session_passwords.patch,
debian/patches/git_typo_fix.patch:
- the changes are in the new version
  * debian/rules:
- call dh_girepository
- use dh-autoreconf
 -- Sebastien BacherThu, 12 Aug 2010 16:41:04 +0200

** Changed in: nautilus (Ubuntu)
   Status: Fix Committed => Fix Released

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Sebastien Bacher]

> Can it be fixed for ubuntu 10.04.1 release?

No, it's a new feature and quite some new code and doesn't apply easily
to the lucid version

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[manzur]

Can it be fixed for ubuntu 10.04.1 release?

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Vish]

This has now been fixed upstream and will be available in the next
Ubuntu release.

** Changed in: nautilus (Ubuntu)
   Status: Triaged => Fix Committed

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Bug Watch Updater]

** Changed in: nautilus
   Status: In Progress => Fix Released

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Bug Watch Updater]

** Changed in: nautilus
   Status: Confirmed => In Progress

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Chris Coulson]

** Tags removed: cut paste usability

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Fred]

Two years later and we're at Ubuntu 10.04 and this is still an usability
issue.

** Tags added: cut paste usability

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[David Siegel]

Removing from paper cuts. Cody has shown that this is not trivial (it's
a feature).

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
   Status: Confirmed => Invalid

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Cody Russell]

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
 Assignee: Cody Russell (bratsche) => (unassigned)

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[David Siegel]

Replacing this paper cut within its milestone because it has stagnated.

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
   Status: In Progress => Confirmed

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Milestone: round-3 => None

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Matthew Wardrop]

Has this idea, perhaps, stagnated?

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[mac_v]

@Chriki™: oh.. another suggestion ,the cut files need to be dimmed since
they will be moved but the copy files dont have to be dimmed, but just
have a copy emblem

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[mac_v]

I really like Chriki™'s idea , of using the scissors, and the copy
emblem. its a nice touch

@Chriki™ : Pls do a better mockup[for cut and for copy], and post it
here, it is nice idea, and it would be a shame to scarp the idea , just
because people didnt get the idea properly.

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Cody Russell]

"There is one advantage about my idea that I perhaps failed to make
clear enough in my original comment: with different emblems the idea
provides for both cut and copy actions (which is not shown in my
mockup). Also, there are probably already provisions in Nautilus for
handling such emblems; at least there are the default Nautilus emblems
which should work similarly."

I like that there's an interest in going this direction, but for me I
think emblems is not the right approach.  There was some talk by
Nautilus people before about having a 'shelf' system (which is kind of
akin to the 'trash' system in a way) wherein you shelve items that have
been copied or cut, and at some point you can view them in the shelf.
Conceptually this makes much more sense to me because cut/copied items
will always be in the same place, and to find out what "Paste" will
yield at any given time is as simple as looking in your shelf.

I think dimming an icon that represents a cut icon is important because
it indicates, as David said, that this file may soon cease to exist in
its present location.  I don't think there's really a need to give any
indication at all of a copied file in its existing location.  When you
copy a file, that doesn't affect the file in its original location and
it's really only useful to know about copied files when you're in a
different location.

That said, while I like the shelf idea conceptually.. I also don't have
any brilliant ideas about how that might work in terms of a user
interface/experience.  If someone here comes up with something
brilliant, you'll be a hero to many.

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Chriki™]

Cody Russel wrote:
> I find the cut icons very confusing. They exist on different corners of
> the icons, and they exist on both dimmed icons and non-dimmed
> icons.

Sorry about that. As said, I had just taken David’s mockup. The small
emblems are on different corners to try out different possibilities.

manzur wrote:
> I do not love the scissor idea, diming files is a good idea to begin, I
> think everyone agree with it, but the sissor idea is very heavy for me
> and i do not really like it, simpler things are better...

As mentioned, I’m not an artist. My mockup should just show the general
idea which could be fleshed out by a good artist. Of course the emblems
could be grayed out (unless moving your mouse over the icon, maybe?) or
completely different – as long as the user is still able to recognize
them. Taking the stock icons for copy/cut was just the quickest solution
;-)

There is one advantage about my idea that I perhaps failed to make clear
enough in my original comment: with different emblems the idea provides
for both cut and copy actions (which is not shown in my mockup). Also,
there are probably already provisions in Nautilus for handling such
emblems; at least there are the default Nautilus emblems which should
work similarly.

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Re: [Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Mat Tomaszewski]

manzur wrote:
> I do not love the scissor idea, diming files is a good idea to begin, I
> think everyone agree with it, but the sissor idea is very heavy for me
> and i do not really like it, simpler things are better...
>
>   
I'd recommend making the files semi-transparent, dimming would suggest 
they're merely selected, not "about to disappear from here".

Mat

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[manzur]

I do not love the scissor idea, diming files is a good idea to begin, I
think everyone agree with it, but the sissor idea is very heavy for me
and i do not really like it, simpler things are better...

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Simone Di Somma]

I love the scissor idea, maybe it could be used in combination with the
dimmed effect.  I think the mouseover effect is necessary because you
can open the file, move it around, until you paste the file in another
place and least but not last you could simple change idea.

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[David Siegel]

When making these decisions, keep in mind that cut files are not
supposed to be there anymore. The dimmed representation is merely a
trace of where the file used to be, not the file itself. I recommend we
do not have a mouseover effect for cut file representations.

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Cody Russell]

I find the cut icons very confusing.  They exist on different corners of
the icons, and they exist on both dimmed icons and non-dimmed icons.

The only question I have about David's mockup is how prelight/mouseover
affects a dimmed icon.  Right now when you mouseover an icon it lightens
up a bit, so I guess if you mouseover a dimmed icon then it lightens up
some more?

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Chriki™]

Sorry for the mistake in my previous post: I meant David’s mockup, of
course, when writing about the base of my new mockup …

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Chriki™]

Another idea could be to add further emblems to the icons of copied/cut
files. In the simplest case this could be the stock icons for copy/cut
(usually a pair of documents/a pair of scissors). I’ve quickly created
another mockup showing this (based on Daniel‘s above – sorry for
hijacking the screenshot …).

Probably some design person will find ways to further improve this idea,
e.g., by adding some striking background color to the little emblem.
Unfortunately I have no idea how easy this would be to implement … maybe
the existing emblem infrastructure could be used for this?

** Attachment added: "Additional emblems mockup"
   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28380640/mockup.png

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Fred]

I think the mockup looks good.

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[David Siegel]

Mat, please see my mockup and provide feedback if it should be changed.
I don't think the items looks selected.

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[David Siegel]

Moved back so Cody can address next week (and week after).

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Milestone: round-1 => round-3

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Mat Tomaszewski]

Dimming does not seem like an optimal solution - the icons will look as
if they've simply been selected, rather than cut. I think they should
become semi-transparent instead.

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[David Siegel]

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
 Assignee: (unassigned) => Cody Russell (bratsche)

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[David Siegel]

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
 Assignee: David Siegel (djsiegel) => (unassigned)

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Sebastien Bacher]

the change there is probably not trivial and not really a
hundredpapercut change

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Michael Keppler]

While some notification or a panel may be a nice addition, neither of them 
fixes the original problem. If files are cut in Nautilus, the visual indication 
is needed _exactly there_ because of 2 reasons:
* You may not even see the panel change or notification because it is on the 
opposite end of your desktop (which may be full of application windows)
* You cannot see _where_ you cut the files if multiple Nautilus windows are 
open, easily leading to confusion if you switch between the windows.

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Re: [Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[seanh]

On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 04:42:32PM -, Richard Ayotte wrote:
> seanh, I really like your ideas. Initially we could simply have a
> notification that says something like "10 files copied to clipboard" or
> "10 files cut to clipboard". Later, a compiz animation of the ghost
> icons that have been cut/copied could fly to a clipboard in the
> notification area. The copy and cut could also be differentiated with
> different sounds.

They're not really my ideas as I'm just saying we should do what Sugar
does. Actually I think an animation of the icons going to the clipboard might
be too much. It would mean icons flying across the screen. The way it
works in Sugar is just that a passive notification, showing the icon for
the content that was cut or copied, pops up next to the clipboard
when something is added. There are different icons for different kinds
of content

I think that's less distracting in two ways: you don't have any
animation flying across the screen, and only a single icon is used for
the notification, no text to read.

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Richard Ayotte]

seanh, I really like your ideas. Initially we could simply have a
notification that says something like "10 files copied to clipboard" or
"10 files cut to clipboard". Later, a compiz animation of the ghost
icons that have been cut/copied could fly to a clipboard in the
notification area. The copy and cut could also be differentiated with
different sounds.

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[David Siegel]

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Milestone: None => round-1

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[seanh]

Dimming the icon is better than nothing but I think the problem goes a
little deeper. What do you do if the user copies, rather than cuts,
something? Dim that as well? The dimming doesn't seem to make as much
sense for copying.

I think this thread:  attests to the fact that there is a
deeper usability problem with clipboard and cut, copy and paste.

There should be a visualisation (a panel applet, possibly) of the
clipboard with the ability to preview its contents. This applet should
implement some sort of notification when a cut or copy occurs to show
that the content has gone into the clipboard (just like we have an
animation when a window is minimised to the panel), and it should be
possible to put more than one item in the clipboard. More like the
clipboard in Sugar.

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[David Siegel]

Here's a straightforward mockup of dimmed icons.

* Dimming effect is achieved by setting lightness to 100% on icons and/or 
labels.
* Documents folder has dimmed icon, normal label and emblem.
* Templates folder has dimmed icon and emblem, normal label.
* Ubuntu One folder has dimmed icon, emblem, and label.
* Videos folder has dimmed icon, no emblem, normal label.
* Pictures folder has dimmed icon and label.

I think dimming icon, emblem, label is the most consistent approach. If
label lightness cannot be manipulated, we should set the label's status
to inactive. Perhaps this dimming effect can be achieved by setting all
widgets in the icon container to inactive?

** Attachment added: "Dimmed icons mockup."
   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28074391/dim-on-cut.png

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[David Siegel]

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
   Status: Triaged => In Progress

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
 Assignee: (unassigned) => David Siegel (djsiegel)

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Ivanka Majic]

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
   Status: Confirmed => Triaged

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Kazade]

Has anyone recently tried the patch from the Gnome bug?

http://mail.gnome.org/archives/nautilus-list/2005-June/msg00018.html

It likely won't apply cleanly now, but anyone taking on this issue might
be able to use it as a starting point.

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Suraj James]

Is this change going to be made for release in 10.04. If it is, could
you also add a feedback when files are copied.

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Mat Tomaszewski]

I do agree this is a needed fix. Very good example of a papercut bug.

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
   Importance: Undecided => Medium

** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
   Status: New => Confirmed

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[borrell]

I agree, this is a usability issue which is in need of a fix. There is
no indication that specific files have been cut from a folder. Upstream
do not see this as an important issue but for people switching from
Windows it is a major issue as the UI could appear unresponsive as it
does not give feedback when a cut operation is performed.

Even if files are not dimmed there needs to be some feedback about the
cut operation.

Is there a way something could be implemented through an Ubuntu-specific
plugin?

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Wouter Stomp]

** Also affects: hundredpapercuts
   Importance: Undecided
   Status: New

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[manzur]

2009 this hasn't been fixed

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Bug Watch Updater]

** Changed in: nautilus
   Status: Unknown => Confirmed

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Fred]

Thanks, I did not know.

But this has been known on GNOME bugzilla since  2001-03-30.
That is 7 years, they're hopeless. They never fix it. :(

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Sebastien Bacher]

Thank you for your bug report. That's alright known upstream, you can
read about it on http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=47948

** Changed in: nautilus (Ubuntu)
 Assignee: (unassigned) => Ubuntu Desktop Bugs (desktop-bugs)
   Status: New => Triaged

** Also affects: nautilus via
   http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=47948
   Importance: Unknown
   Status: Unknown

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[Bug 194213] Re: Dim files when you 'cut' them for later 'paste' action

[Murat Güneş]

** Changed in: nautilus (Ubuntu)
Sourcepackagename: None => nautilus
   Importance: Undecided => Wishlist

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