[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2009-03-16 Thread Ralph Corderoy
So, are we instead to raise a bug on every program and script that
doesn't expect a brain-damaged response due to ~/.gvfs?  And then expect
the maintainers of those programs to work around the brain damage?  E.g.
`alsa force-reload' causes `lsof: WARNING: can't stat() fuse.gvfs-fuse-
daemon file system /home/peter/.gvfs' to appear.

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2009-03-16 Thread Nikolaus Rath
It is also possible to fix this on the FUSE side by changing the stat()
behaviour. But this doesn't have a high priority right now, because an
even cleaner behaviour will automatically come about with the
introduction of private namespaces. See the discussion in
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.file-
systems.fuse.devel/3497/focus=3502 and
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.file-
systems.fuse.devel/7169/focus=7236

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2009-02-19 Thread Pedro Villavicencio
** Changed in: gvfs
 Bugwatch: GNOME Bug Tracker #534284 = GNOME Bug Tracker #560658
   Status: Invalid = Unknown

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2009-01-06 Thread Bug Watch Updater
** Changed in: gvfs (ALT Linux)
   Status: Unknown = New

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-18 Thread Phillip Susi
If rsync errors out immediately because it gets an access denied error
opening one source file, then yes, I'd say you should file a bug report
against it.  Well behaved tools, such as tar, print an error message and
carry on with the rest of the files they CAN operate on.

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Re: [Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-17 Thread Phillip Susi
Ralph Corderoy wrote:
 It is a bug in that, under Unix, by design, that should *never* happen
 to a process running as root.

Maybe 20 years ago, but these days being root does NOT mean you can do 
anything ( take a look at SELinux ).  Heck, even 20 years ago root ran 
into issues like this with NFS.  .gvfs is working as designed.

 Sorry, that's not possible.  As root, it's entirely valid, and not
 uncommon, for me to run `find / ...' which will descend and find .gvfs
 wherever to decide to move it to.

And you need to deal with access denied errors.

 Nikolaus Rath and S B, take a look at my earlier comment
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/225361/comments/11 I
 understand this configuration of FUSE has been chosen because of
 security concerns, as opposed to using its allow_users or allow_root
 options.  However, I'm not sure those concerns remain valid given Ubuntu
 automatically mounts the filesystems on a USB flash drive I insert, and
 I doubt every piece of filesystem code in the kernel is robust against
 maliciously concocted corrupt filesystems.

AFAIK, the allow_root option does not work because .gvfs requires the 
kernel keyring for authentication.  Same goes for ecryptfs mounted 
~/private.  Root can't access it because the process doesn't have the 
decryption key on its keyring.

At the end of the day programs simply have to deal with access denied 
errors, even when run as root.  This bug was marked as invalid both here 
and upstream because this point will not change.

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Re: [Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-17 Thread Nikolaus Rath
Phillip Susi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Ralph Corderoy wrote:
 It is a bug in that, under Unix, by design, that should *never* happen
 to a process running as root.

 Maybe 20 years ago, but these days being root does NOT mean you can do 
 anything ( take a look at SELinux ).  Heck, even 20 years ago root ran 
 into issues like this with NFS.  .gvfs is working as designed.

There is a difference between being able to impose specific
restrictions even on the root account (SELinux) and the root account
in general not being able to access all files in /home (as happening
with gvfs). In other words, using SELinux does not prevent you from
accessing /home/* (or any other directory) unless you chose to
*configure* it that way.

The fact that NFS has its bug is not a justification for not fixing
similar bugs in gvfs.

 Nikolaus Rath and S B, take a look at my earlier comment
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/225361/comments/11 I
 understand this configuration of FUSE has been chosen because of
 security concerns, as opposed to using its allow_users or allow_root
 options.  However, I'm not sure those concerns remain valid given Ubuntu
 automatically mounts the filesystems on a USB flash drive I insert, and
 I doubt every piece of filesystem code in the kernel is robust against
 maliciously concocted corrupt filesystems.

 AFAIK, the allow_root option does not work because .gvfs requires the 
 kernel keyring for authentication.

I don't quite understand what you mean. In which way does the passing
of an option to the FUSE library effect authentication? gvfs will run
exactly the same way.

 Same goes for ecryptfs mounted 
 ~/private.  Root can't access it because the process doesn't have the 
 decryption key on its keyring.

I don't know about ecryptfs, but a fuse filesystem does not need to
run as root in order for --allow-root to work (is this what you
assume?).

 At the end of the day programs simply have to deal with access
 denied errors, even when run as root. This bug was marked as invalid
 both here and upstream because this point will not change.

I would probably agree with you here. But the thing is that programs
don't get a simple access denied error. If I have rx permissions on a
directory, then I ought to be able to stat() everything in it. This
does not work if there is a fuse mounted .gvfs in there.

Changing the behavior to allowing root to stat() the directly (but not
granting read- or execute permissions) would probably also fix most of
the issues.


Best,


   -Nikolaus

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Re: [Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-17 Thread Phillip Susi
Nikolaus Rath wrote:
 There is a difference between being able to impose specific
 restrictions even on the root account (SELinux) and the root account
 in general not being able to access all files in /home (as happening
 with gvfs). In other words, using SELinux does not prevent you from
 accessing /home/* (or any other directory) unless you chose to
 *configure* it that way.

And neither does gvfs, nfs, or ecryptfs unless you choose to use them.

 The fact that NFS has its bug is not a justification for not fixing
 similar bugs in gvfs.

It isn't justification, and it isn't a bug.  It is by design.  NFS and 
ecryptfs and SELinux are just other examples of areas where root is 
denied access *BY DESIGN*.

 I don't quite understand what you mean. In which way does the passing
 of an option to the FUSE library effect authentication? gvfs will run
 exactly the same way.

I believe the gvfs uses the kernel keyring for authentication to remote 
network resources and such, ergo simply being root can not grant you access.

 I don't know about ecryptfs, but a fuse filesystem does not need to
 run as root in order for --allow-root to work (is this what you
 assume?).

See above.  In the case of ecryptfs everything requires a decryption key 
stored in the kernel keyring to access.  .gvfs maps local files, but 
also contains other things like network resources which require 
authentication that is not available to a root process that is not a 
child of the interactively logged on user, so the process can not access 
those files.

 I would probably agree with you here. But the thing is that programs
 don't get a simple access denied error. If I have rx permissions on a
 directory, then I ought to be able to stat() everything in it. This
 does not work if there is a fuse mounted .gvfs in there.
 
 Changing the behavior to allowing root to stat() the directly (but not
 granting read- or execute permissions) would probably also fix most of
 the issues.

Hrm it does seem like you should be able to stat the mount point 
itself.  How would this solve the problem though?  find often complains 
that it can't stat() temporary files that have been unlinked between the 
readdir() call and the stat().  Any calling script should not be upset 
by such errors.

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-17 Thread BUGabundo
On Monday 17 November 2008 18:44:18 Nikolaus Rath wrote:
 I don't know about ecryptfs, but a fuse filesystem does not need to
 run as root in order for --allow-root to work (is this what you
 assume?).

We are going of topic and discussing something that should be done on a ML and 
not on a BTS.
But since I use encfs (that uses fuse) I can tell you that root wont access the 
files, unless you mount the colume with --public, and you can only do that if 
you mount it as root.

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Re: [Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-17 Thread Nikolaus Rath
Phillip Susi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 [ Should root be able to access everything? ]

BUGabundu is right, this discussion probably belongs somewhere else.

So let my just state my main point again: using --allow-root does not
have any negative side effects and would prevent many applications
from needing fixing.

 I believe the gvfs uses the kernel keyring for authentication to
 remote network resources and such, ergo simply being root can not
 grant you access.

gvfs does not need to be root in order for --allow-root to work. So
this shouldn't be a problem.


 Changing the behavior to allowing root to stat() the directly (but not
 granting read- or execute permissions) would probably also fix most of
 the issues.

 Hrm it does seem like you should be able to stat the mount point
 itself. How would this solve the problem though? find often
 complains that it can't stat() temporary files that have been
 unlinked between the readdir() call and the stat(). Any calling
 script should not be upset by such errors.

Yes, but here the situation is different: readdir() returns an entry
that cannot be stat()ed. In the above case, we simply have a race
condition between stat() and readdir(). But this does not belong here
either, so I will try to get this change into FUSE.


Best,

   -Nikolaus

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-17 Thread Sameer D. Sahasrabuddhe

http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gvfs-list/2008-November/msg1.html

This link was meant to go in the previous message.

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Re: [Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-16 Thread Ralph Corderoy

Nikolaus wrote:
  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/225361/comments/11
  I understand this configuration of FUSE has been chosen because of
  security concerns, as opposed to using its allow_users or allow_root
  options.
 
 This is not a valid concern. In Ubuntu, allow_root is by default
 enabled in /etc/fuse.conf.

In my untouched 8.04 /etc/fuse.conf, both mount_max and user_allow_other
are commented out, meaning the file has no active options.

 So even if gvfs does not use --allow-root, a malicious user can simply
 mount a filesystem of his choice manually and with --allow-root.

It's my understanding that Ubuntu have set up automounting of user
filesystems (non-FUSE ones) so a malicious user can have root mount
their concocted filesystem anyway, so I'm not sure what the current
troublesome, non-Unix, FUSE configuration is protecting us from?

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Re: [Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-16 Thread Nikolaus Rath
Ralph Corderoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Nikolaus wrote:
  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/225361/comments/11
  I understand this configuration of FUSE has been chosen because of
  security concerns, as opposed to using its allow_users or allow_root
  options.
 
 This is not a valid concern. In Ubuntu, allow_root is by default
 enabled in /etc/fuse.conf.

 In my untouched 8.04 /etc/fuse.conf, both mount_max and
 user_allow_other are commented out, meaning the file has no active
 options.

Hmm. I'm running 8.04 as well, and here it is enabled. I don't
remember changing it either. However, this is not a fresh install but
has been upgraded several times, so maybe the setting survived from an
older release.

 So even if gvfs does not use --allow-root, a malicious user can simply
 mount a filesystem of his choice manually and with --allow-root.

 It's my understanding that Ubuntu have set up automounting of user
 filesystems (non-FUSE ones) so a malicious user can have root mount
 their concocted filesystem anyway, so I'm not sure what the current
 troublesome, non-Unix, FUSE configuration is protecting us from?

Yes, I don't see any point in that either.


Best,

   -Nikolaus

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Re: [Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-16 Thread Ralph Corderoy

fuse-utils version 2.7.2-1ubuntu2 has a debian/fuse.conf that's
identical to my /etc one, i.e. everything commented out, so perhaps
you're right about the survival from an older release.

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Re: [Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-15 Thread Ralph Corderoy

Phillip Susi wrote:
 That is really just a contributing factor, not the problem.  The
 problem is that people are having utilities fail when they run into
 .gvfs because root can't access it ( and this is by design, not a bug
 ).

It is a bug in that, under Unix, by design, that should *never* happen
to a process running as root.

 The utilities in question shouldn't be messing with .gvfs in the first
 place, so a simple solution is to move it somewhere they aren't going
 to run into it.

Sorry, that's not possible.  As root, it's entirely valid, and not
uncommon, for me to run `find / ...' which will descend and find .gvfs
wherever to decide to move it to.

Nikolaus Rath and S B, take a look at my earlier comment
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/225361/comments/11 I
understand this configuration of FUSE has been chosen because of
security concerns, as opposed to using its allow_users or allow_root
options.  However, I'm not sure those concerns remain valid given Ubuntu
automatically mounts the filesystems on a USB flash drive I insert, and
I doubt every piece of filesystem code in the kernel is robust against
maliciously concocted corrupt filesystems.

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Re: [Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-15 Thread Nikolaus Rath
Ralph Corderoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Nikolaus Rath and S B, take a look at my earlier comment
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/225361/comments/11 I
 understand this configuration of FUSE has been chosen because of
 security concerns, as opposed to using its allow_users or allow_root
 options.

This is not a valid concern. In Ubuntu, allow_root is by default
enabled in /etc/fuse.conf. So even if gvfs does not use --allow-root,
a malicious user can simply mount a filesystem of his choice manually
and with --allow-root.

If --allow-root poses a security risk, it has to be disabled in
/etc/fuse.conf and not in individual applications that happen to call
fuse.


Best,

   -Nikolaus

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-13 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Just to be clear, mounting .gvfs somewhere other than $HOME doesn't
solve the problem this bug's covering IMO, which is that the filesystem
breaks the Unix norm that root can stat anything.

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-13 Thread Nikolaus Rath
** Bug watch added: GNOME Bug Tracker #560658
   http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=560658

** Also affects: gvfs (ALT Linux) via
   http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=560658
   Importance: Unknown
   Status: Unknown

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Re: [Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-13 Thread Phillip Susi
Ralph Corderoy wrote:
 Just to be clear, mounting .gvfs somewhere other than $HOME doesn't
 solve the problem this bug's covering IMO, which is that the filesystem
 breaks the Unix norm that root can stat anything.

That is really just a contributing factor, not the problem.  The problem 
is that people are having utilities fail when they run into .gvfs 
because root can't access it ( and this is by design, not a bug ).  The 
utilities in question shouldn't be messing with .gvfs in the first 
place, so a simple solution is to move it somewhere they aren't going to 
run into it.

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-13 Thread Nikolaus Rath
I am not going to argue about the definition of a bug. But why was this
particular design chosen? It seems to me that it only causes the
problems described above and does not have any positive effects.

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-13 Thread S B
So, correct me if I'm wrong. There is no work around right now?

I run into this bug when I run the command:
$ sudo alsa reload

And I really need to use this command, because the audio on my system is
flat out not working. If there's any way to fix this, I'd really like to
know about it.

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-12 Thread S B
How would I go about doing mounting my gvfs under /tmp? This bug is
causing me and at least several others to lose audio from our computers
altogether. I would like to know how to implement the workaround for
now. Would there be any side effects to mounting the gvfs in the /tmp
folder? Thanks.

 Even if each user has his/her own .gvfs, it can still be mounted as
/tmp/gvfs-username! A lot of gnome utilities already do  that, so it
won't be a big deal. And of course, there should be no security issue in
using /tmp, since even root can't access  gvfs mounts! ;)

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-04 Thread Sameer D. Sahasrabuddhe

Even if each user has his/her own .gvfs, it can still be mounted as 
/tmp/gvfs-username! A lot of gnome utilities already do that, so it won't be a 
big deal. And of course, there should be no security issue in using /tmp, since 
even root can't access gvfs mounts! ;)

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Re: [Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-04 Thread Stephan van Ingen
That is indeed possible, didn't see that one coming ;)

2008/11/4 Sameer D. Sahasrabuddhe [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Even if each user has his/her own .gvfs, it can still be mounted as
 /tmp/gvfs-username! A lot of gnome utilities already do that, so it won't be
 a big deal. And of course, there should be no security issue in using /tmp,
 since even root can't access gvfs mounts! ;)

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Re: [Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-04 Thread Shirish Agarwal
Hi all,
 This is all good news, I just hope somebody takes ownership of the
bug and we, the poor users have some sort of solution by the end of
jaunty cycle.
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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-04 Thread Chris Coulson
Your best chance of making that happen is probably to discuss your ideas
with the upstream developers.

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-04 Thread Chris Coulson
Philip - Yes, I think your best chance is to open a low importance bug
on the bugzilla, as the idea that is being proposed is separate from the
original bug report about the root user not having access to ~/.gvfs

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-04 Thread Phillip Susi
I added my comments to the gnome bugzilla, but it is still marked as
invalid and I can't change it.  Hopefully someone will change it back to
new until the idea is reviewed, or maybe I should file a new bug in
their bugzilla?

The location where .gvfs is mounted is likely an easily configurable
parameter that Ubuntu could customize, but it will take someone more
familiar with the component to speak to that with authority.

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[Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-03 Thread Phillip Susi
While the problem of root accessing the .gvfs mount point is expected
and will not be changed, the fact is that having .gvfs mounted in the
user's home directory causes a number of errors for a number of people
using a number of tools.  I do not think there is any reason it needs to
be mounted in the user's home directory, so perhaps moving the mount
point to /tmp or /var/run would alleviate the issues people are having.


** Summary changed:

- Superuser cannot access ~/.gvfs folder when mounted 
+ ~/.gvfs causes various errors

** Changed in: gvfs (Ubuntu)
   Status: Invalid = Triaged

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Re: [Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-03 Thread Shirish Agarwal
Philip,
 Thanx. I would be happy with that outcome :)
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Re: [Bug 225361] Re: ~/.gvfs causes various errors

2008-11-03 Thread Stephan van Ingen
If it is not necessary that each user has its own ./gvfs, than that indeed
is a good workaround


2008/11/4 Shirish Agarwal [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Philip,
  Thanx. I would be happy with that outcome :)
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