Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Simos Xenitellis]

O/H BJörn Lindqvist έγραψε:
> On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Christian Neumair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Alex Jones proposed [1] to change the quotation marks in Nautilus
>>  strings from the ASCII representation "..." to the unicode variant
>>  "...".
>>
>>  I think the proposed quotation marks are aesthetically more pleasing,
>>  but I don't want to change this unless there is a GNOME-wide policy.
>>
>>  I hereby propose to establish a GNOME policy of using "..." for
>>  quotations. Comments, objections?
>> 
>
> Great idea!
>   
I blogged about it at
http://blogs.gnome.org/simos/2008/05/14/should-ui-strings-in-source-code-have-non-ascii-characters/
There might be some further input.

My main concern is how systems such as FreeBSD with GNOME behave 
(apparently they use non-UTF8 encodings). I did not manage to duplicate 
the behaviour on Ubuntu, so if someone has a system with legacy 8-bit 
encoding, could you please check?

Simos

___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Matej Cepl]

On 2008-05-13, 14:45 GMT, Pat Suwalski wrote:
> My objection may seem silly, but since there is no way to type it on any 
> keyboard out there, that's a bit of a hindrance. Short of using the 
> character map and searching, one has to resolve to using "smart 
> substitution" editors like OpenOffice to get the characters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key

Matěj

___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[BJörn Lindqvist]

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Christian Neumair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Alex Jones proposed [1] to change the quotation marks in Nautilus
>  strings from the ASCII representation "..." to the unicode variant
>  "...".
>
>  I think the proposed quotation marks are aesthetically more pleasing,
>  but I don't want to change this unless there is a GNOME-wide policy.
>
>  I hereby propose to establish a GNOME policy of using "..." for
>  quotations. Comments, objections?

Great idea!

-- 
mvh Björn
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

Wouter Bolsterlee wrote on 13/05/08 17:19:
> 
> 2008-05-13 klockan 16:19 skrev Christian Neumair:
>...
>> I hereby propose to establish a GNOME policy of using “...” for
>> quotations. Comments, objections?

There is a test case for this: Epiphany uses typographical quote marks
throughout its interface. (Bravo to the Epiphany developers.) So if this
was going to cause trouble, it would have done so by now. Has it?

> Why not single quotation marks: ‘ and ’ instead? Many people associate
> double quotes to verbatim speech, while this is almost never the case
> in user interfaces.

That people associate double quote marks with speech does not mean
single quotes will be more obvious for the things quoted in user interfaces.

Anyway, the answer to your question is that double quote marks are
easier to see than single ones, which is important at low resolutions
such as computer screens. Newspapers typically use double quotes for
much the same reason (small print on cheap paper), sometimes switching
to single quotes only for headlines where legibility is not an issue.

> I would also like to point out these sites:
> 
>   - The “Blog” of “Unnecessary” Quotation Marks
> http://quotation-marks.blogspot.com/
> 
>   - The Gallery Of "Misused" Quotation Marks
> http://www.juvalamu.com/qmarks/
> 
> ...since quotation marks are often used inappropriately.
>...

And in a similar vein, a site decrying the use of ugly Ascii quotes in
high-profile settings: 

Cheers
-- 
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Pat Suwalski]

As Shaun points out, it gets a little convoluted.

Alan Cox wrote:
> Which rules does Canada follow for the ending of a sentence with quoted
> text ?
>   "quoted text."
> or
>   "quoted text". 
> 
> That might need a locale anyway

Assuming that British is punctuation outside of the quotes,

en_US: “That color is nice.”
en_CA: “That colour is nice.”
en_GB: “That colour is nice”.
en_AU: Yet another variant?

Leads to a possibility of 4 translations where there were two before. 
Anyway, this is probably not particularly constructive to the debate. 
Not sure where you were going with the question, but the point is that's 
it's mostly minutia that just isn't needed.

--Pat
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Shaun McCance]

On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 17:33 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 12:22:51 -0400
> Pat Suwalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Alan Cox wrote:
> > > Put the English quotes in the en_US and en_GB translations, put German
> > > quotes in the de ones and so on.
> > 
> > This, if course, makes something like the very tiny en_CA locale into a 
> > rather full locale. I suppose many generic messages can go into just "en".
> 
> Which rules does Canada follow for the ending of a sentence with quoted
> text ?
>   "quoted text."
> or
>   "quoted text". 
> 
> That might need a locale anyway

Most English locales besides American put punctuation
outside quotation marks, unless it logically belongs
inside the quotation marks.

It should be noted, however, that even many Americans
prefer the logical punctuation placement, especially
within the computer industry.  The thread-starter was
about Nautilus, and I suspect the bulk of the cases
involve quotation marks surrounding file names or
other identifiers.  CMS has this to say (¶6.8):

  In computer-related writing, in which a file name or
  other character string enclosed in quotation marks might
  be rendered inaccurate or ambiguous by the addition of
  punctuation within the quotation marks, the alternative
  system may be used

The "alternative system" here is logical quotation.
For the majority of cases we're considering (quoting
file names and such), everybody should use logical
quotation, so the issue is moot.

--
Shaun


___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Shaun McCance]

On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 17:36 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > Honestly, other than being pedantic, I don't see the
> > problem with UTF-8 in the C locale.  Does it cause
> > any *actual* problems?  I've never once gotten a bug
> > report against g-d-u about this.
> 
> Sort order, comparisons, printing, string lengths when using locale aware
> functions, and no doubt a few more that for the moment have escaped me.
> 
> Use the tools to spec and you get reliable predictable results, do
> otherwise and it all gets sloppy and buggy. Would you rely on undefined C
> behaviour in Gnome code ?
> 
> The discussions about it being work are also bollocks (to use a fine bit
> of en_GB). Make was invented to handle such trivial tasks for you.

OK, time for a concrete example.  I'm writing a dialog
with the following message:

  The file “%s” could not be found.

This is a message that gets put onto a gray box on the
screen.  It's not put into any sort of list that gets
sorted.  I'm not comparing it to anything or taking its
length (and if I were, I'd use the GLib functions which
Do The Right Thing).

If I have to use the en translation, then I have to put
this string in the source code:

  The file "%s" could not be found.

Then I have to run 'intltool-update en', open en.po,
and add the translation.  That's more steps, none of
which involve make.  How does make help me?

--
Shaun


___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Simos Xenitellis]

O/H Shaun McCance έγραψε:
> On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 16:22 +0100, Simos Xenitellis wrote:
>   
>> I think the most important question to answer is whether we want to make 
>> POT files non-ASCII. That is, once messages have “”‘’, etc, then GNOME 
>> will be available for Unicode locales only.
>> If one starts GNOME with a C or a legacy 8-bit locale, it will not work.
>> 
>
> Don't we already have plenty of non-ASCII POT files?
> I know gnome-doc-utils is non-ASCII.
>> Personally I would say no to “” at this stage.
>> 
>
> I'm just wondering, if not now, when?  What do we have yet
> to accomplish that's blocking the use of proper typographic
> quotes?  I'm not trying to troll here.  It just seems to me
> that we've had all this functionality for quite a while, but
> we're still typing as if we're on old typewriters.  What do
> we need to do, as programmers, to get the world out of its
> ASCII rut?
Here is a link to the recent discussion about non-ASCII in translation 
files (=POT or source files),
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg05803.html

As a summary of that discussion, the general view was that it's ok to 
use UTF-8 in source files.
Karl Eichwalder then mentioned
“You'd better avoid such eye-candy stuff in source code. Instead do 
proper English translations and add en_US and en_GB files.”
Abel added that he remembered a previous discussion of a GNOME policy 
for "source code == en_US" (I presume he meant ASCII).
There was interest for a reference to that discussion but none  was 
provided and the thread ended there.

What I see here is that it would be good to rekindle that discussion 
"use of non-ascii characters in source translation messages", and get 
whatever the outcome as a GNOME policy.

Simos

___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Alan Cox]

> Honestly, other than being pedantic, I don't see the
> problem with UTF-8 in the C locale.  Does it cause
> any *actual* problems?  I've never once gotten a bug
> report against g-d-u about this.

Sort order, comparisons, printing, string lengths when using locale aware
functions, and no doubt a few more that for the moment have escaped me.

Use the tools to spec and you get reliable predictable results, do
otherwise and it all gets sloppy and buggy. Would you rely on undefined C
behaviour in Gnome code ?

The discussions about it being work are also bollocks (to use a fine bit
of en_GB). Make was invented to handle such trivial tasks for you.
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Alan Cox]

On Tue, 13 May 2008 12:22:51 -0400
Pat Suwalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Alan Cox wrote:
> > Put the English quotes in the en_US and en_GB translations, put German
> > quotes in the de ones and so on.
> 
> This, if course, makes something like the very tiny en_CA locale into a 
> rather full locale. I suppose many generic messages can go into just "en".

Which rules does Canada follow for the ending of a sentence with quoted
text ?
"quoted text."
or
"quoted text". 

That might need a locale anyway
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Shaun McCance]

On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 16:54 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > Don't we already have plenty of non-ASCII POT files?
> > I know gnome-doc-utils is non-ASCII.
> 
> That would be a bug...
> 
> > that we've had all this functionality for quite a while, but
> > we're still typing as if we're on old typewriters.  What do
> > we need to do, as programmers, to get the world out of its
> > ASCII rut?
> 
> Put the English quotes in the en_US and en_GB translations, put German
> quotes in the de ones and so on.

Who's going to manage the en locale?  As a developer,
when I write a string, I don't want to have to write
some bastardized form first, then go add the actual
string somewhere else.

The en locale is nice for temporary typo fixes when
we're late in a release cycle.  Anything else is just
an annoyance to developers.

Honestly, other than being pedantic, I don't see the
problem with UTF-8 in the C locale.  Does it cause
any *actual* problems?  I've never once gotten a bug
report against g-d-u about this.

--
Shaun


___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Pat Suwalski]

Alan Cox wrote:
> Put the English quotes in the en_US and en_GB translations, put German
> quotes in the de ones and so on.

This, if course, makes something like the very tiny en_CA locale into a 
rather full locale. I suppose many generic messages can go into just "en".

--Pat
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “ ” instead of ""

[Wouter Bolsterlee]

2008-05-13 klockan 16:19 skrev Christian Neumair:
> Alex Jones proposed [1] to change the quotation marks in Nautilus
> strings from the ASCII representation "..." to the unicode variant
> “...”.
> 
> I think the proposed quotation marks are aesthetically more pleasing,
> but I don't want to change this unless there is a GNOME-wide policy.
> 
> I hereby propose to establish a GNOME policy of using “...” for
> quotations. Comments, objections?

Why not single quotation marks: ‘ and ’ instead? Many people associate
double quotes to verbatim speech, while this is almost never the case in
user interfaces.

I would also like to point out these sites:

  - The “Blog” of “Unnecessary” Quotation Marks
http://quotation-marks.blogspot.com/

  - The Gallery Of "Misused" Quotation Marks
http://www.juvalamu.com/qmarks/

...since quotation marks are often used inappropriately.

  mvrgr, Wouter

-- 
:wq   mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  web http://uwstopia.nl

well i'm happy when it's good :: and when it's bad i cry  -- the who


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Alan Cox]

> Don't we already have plenty of non-ASCII POT files?
> I know gnome-doc-utils is non-ASCII.

That would be a bug...

> that we've had all this functionality for quite a while, but
> we're still typing as if we're on old typewriters.  What do
> we need to do, as programmers, to get the world out of its
> ASCII rut?

Put the English quotes in the en_US and en_GB translations, put German
quotes in the de ones and so on.

Alan
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Alan Cox]

> They also tend to fail horribly when pasting into a non-Unicode 
> terminal, which is still often the case over SSH. Probably not a huge 
> desktop consideration, though. Every distribution I know of uses Unicode 
> by default on the local terminal at this point.

Doesn't matter for translations but the C locale is ASCII (and sorting is
only defined for ASCII) so the base strings that get translated should
always be ASCII themselves. 

What people do with French/German/English/US/.. quoting rules after that
is a different matter but surely belongs to the language team.

Alan
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Shaun McCance]

On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 16:22 +0100, Simos Xenitellis wrote:
> 
> I think the most important question to answer is whether we want to make 
> POT files non-ASCII. That is, once messages have “”‘’, etc, then GNOME 
> will be available for Unicode locales only.
> If one starts GNOME with a C or a legacy 8-bit locale, it will not work.

Don't we already have plenty of non-ASCII POT files?
I know gnome-doc-utils is non-ASCII.

> Personally I would say no to “” at this stage.

I'm just wondering, if not now, when?  What do we have yet
to accomplish that's blocking the use of proper typographic
quotes?  I'm not trying to troll here.  It just seems to me
that we've had all this functionality for quite a while, but
we're still typing as if we're on old typewriters.  What do
we need to do, as programmers, to get the world out of its
ASCII rut?

--
Shaun


___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Patryk Zawadzki]

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Simos Xenitellis
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  I think the most important question to answer is whether we want to make
>  POT files non-ASCII. That is, once messages have ""'', etc, then GNOME
>  will be available for Unicode locales only.
>  If one starts GNOME with a C or a legacy 8-bit locale, it will not work.

For regular strings that's a non-issue as you can keep '"' in C
locale. For the rest why not just add '"%s"' to translatable strings
then use this printf macro to quote strings that are dynamic?

-- 
Patryk Zawadzki
PLD Linux Distribution
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Claudio Saavedra]

El mar, 13-05-2008 a las 10:18 -0500, Shaun McCance escribió:
> > The only problem I see is some languages use different characters
> for
> > quoting. ASCII ones are somewhat neutral.
> 
> Other languages will translate the strings anyway.

In fact, we in Spanish change quotation marks to «». We'll keep doing
even if the quotation marks are changed to “”, so that's not an issue.

Claudio

-- 
Claudio Saavedra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Shaun McCance]

On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 10:45 -0400, Pat Suwalski wrote:
> My objection may seem silly, but since there is no way to type it on any 
> keyboard out there, that's a bit of a hindrance. Short of using the 
> character map and searching, one has to resolve to using "smart 
> substitution" editors like OpenOffice to get the characters.

There ought to be compose key sequences for the various
types of quotation marks.  According to the references
I can find, Compose+<+" should give a curly left double
quote, but it doesn't seem to work on my machine.

The character map should *really* list the compose key
sequence for a character in the Character Details tab.

> They also tend to fail horribly when pasting into a non-Unicode 
> terminal, which is still often the case over SSH. Probably not a huge 
> desktop consideration, though. Every distribution I know of uses Unicode 
> by default on the local terminal at this point.

This is indeed a problem.  On numerous occasions, I've
had to put away my "ssh && emacs -nw" and use gedit to
open a remote file, because Unicode got garbled over
the wire.

--
Shaun


___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Simos Xenitellis]

O/H Pat Suwalski έγραψε:
> My objection may seem silly, but since there is no way to type it on any 
> keyboard out there, that's a bit of a hindrance. Short of using the 
> character map and searching, one has to resolve to using "smart 
> substitution" editors like OpenOffice to get the characters.
>   
The following keyboard layouts allow you to type those double quote marks:

al ba be br by ca ch cz de dk ee epo es fi fo fr gb hr hu ie is it latam 
lt lv mao me mk mn mt nl no pl pt ro rs se si sk tr ua us za

Layouts that are missing from above may not need them (for example, gr, 
which uses «»).

An issue is with some default layouts that may not enable those double 
quotes (you have to pick the appropriate layout variant). That is the 
case with “us”, where the default layout does not include the said 
characters.

In most layouts (such as the default for GB), “” are found when you 
press AltGr+v, AltGr+b.
For US, you need to pick the “intl” variant, and here it follows its 
own, with AltGr+[, AltGr+] respectively.
> They also tend to fail horribly when pasting into a non-Unicode 
> terminal, which is still often the case over SSH. Probably not a huge 
> desktop consideration, though. Every distribution I know of uses Unicode 
> by default on the local terminal at this point.
>   
This situation (whether to put “” or not) is similar to whether to 
include ellipsis in translation messages instead of “...”. I am not sure 
what was the resolution for that issue.

The two issues have similarities and an important difference; the text 
of the menu items cannot be copied by default (unless an accessibility 
application is active), which means that the text will probably not make 
it out of the application.

I think the most important question to answer is whether we want to make 
POT files non-ASCII. That is, once messages have “”‘’, etc, then GNOME 
will be available for Unicode locales only.
If one starts GNOME with a C or a legacy 8-bit locale, it will not work.

Personally I would say no to “” at this stage.

Simos
> --Pat
>
> Christian Neumair wrote:
>   
>> Alex Jones proposed [1] to change the quotation marks in Nautilus
>> strings from the ASCII representation "..." to the unicode variant
>> “...”.
>>
>> I think the proposed quotation marks are aesthetically more pleasing,
>> but I don't want to change this unless there is a GNOME-wide policy.
>>
>> I hereby propose to establish a GNOME policy of using “...” for
>> quotations. Comments, objections?
>>
>> best regards,
>>  Christian Neumair
>>
>> [1] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=532777
>>
>> 

___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Matteo Settenvini]

Well, that brings up the problem of quoting text in different languages.

For example, as far as I know:

* “English text”
* „German text“
* «French text»
* ...and so on

If this change has to be made, someone should warn the translators to
use consistently translated quote-marks all around.

But I'd rather stick with the neutral symbol.

Cheers,
matteo


Il giorno mar, 13/05/2008 alle 10.45 -0400, Pat Suwalski ha scritto:
> My objection may seem silly, but since there is no way to type it on any 
> keyboard out there, that's a bit of a hindrance. Short of using the 
> character map and searching, one has to resolve to using "smart 
> substitution" editors like OpenOffice to get the characters.
> 
> They also tend to fail horribly when pasting into a non-Unicode 
> terminal, which is still often the case over SSH. Probably not a huge 
> desktop consideration, though. Every distribution I know of uses Unicode 
> by default on the local terminal at this point.
> 
> --Pat
> 
> Christian Neumair wrote:
> > Alex Jones proposed [1] to change the quotation marks in Nautilus
> > strings from the ASCII representation "..." to the unicode variant
> > “...”.
> > 
> > I think the proposed quotation marks are aesthetically more pleasing,
> > but I don't want to change this unless there is a GNOME-wide policy.
> > 
> > I hereby propose to establish a GNOME policy of using “...” for
> > quotations. Comments, objections?
> > 
> > best regards,
> >  Christian Neumair
> > 
> > [1] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=532777
> > 
> ___
> desktop-devel-list mailing list
> desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list


signature.asc
Description: Questa è una parte del messaggio	firmata digitalmente
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Shaun McCance]

On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 17:16 +0200, Patryk Zawadzki wrote:
> On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Christian Neumair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Alex Jones proposed [1] to change the quotation marks in Nautilus
> >  strings from the ASCII representation "..." to the unicode variant
> >  "...".
> 
> The only problem I see is some languages use different characters for
> quoting. ASCII ones are somewhat neutral.

Other languages will translate the strings anyway.

--
Shaun


___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Patryk Zawadzki]

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Christian Neumair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Alex Jones proposed [1] to change the quotation marks in Nautilus
>  strings from the ASCII representation "..." to the unicode variant
>  "...".

The only problem I see is some languages use different characters for
quoting. ASCII ones are somewhat neutral.

-- 
Patryk Zawadzki
PLD Linux Distribution
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Pat Suwalski]

My objection may seem silly, but since there is no way to type it on any 
keyboard out there, that's a bit of a hindrance. Short of using the 
character map and searching, one has to resolve to using "smart 
substitution" editors like OpenOffice to get the characters.

They also tend to fail horribly when pasting into a non-Unicode 
terminal, which is still often the case over SSH. Probably not a huge 
desktop consideration, though. Every distribution I know of uses Unicode 
by default on the local terminal at this point.

--Pat

Christian Neumair wrote:
> Alex Jones proposed [1] to change the quotation marks in Nautilus
> strings from the ASCII representation "..." to the unicode variant
> “...”.
> 
> I think the proposed quotation marks are aesthetically more pleasing,
> but I don't want to change this unless there is a GNOME-wide policy.
> 
> I hereby propose to establish a GNOME policy of using “...” for
> quotations. Comments, objections?
> 
> best regards,
>  Christian Neumair
> 
> [1] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=532777
> 
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Quotation marks: Using “” instead of ""

[Christian Neumair]

Alex Jones proposed [1] to change the quotation marks in Nautilus
strings from the ASCII representation "..." to the unicode variant
“...”.

I think the proposed quotation marks are aesthetically more pleasing,
but I don't want to change this unless there is a GNOME-wide policy.

I hereby propose to establish a GNOME policy of using “...” for
quotations. Comments, objections?

best regards,
 Christian Neumair

[1] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=532777

-- 
Christian Neumair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: gnome-panel logout menu

[Josselin Mouette]

Le lundi 12 mai 2008 à 19:31 +0200, Wouter Bolsterlee a écrit :
> Debian includes a gnome-panel-logout binary to provide the logout dialog as
> a standalone program.  It makes much sense to get this upstream.

As Simon explained, this will no longer be necessary in 2.24 so the
patch will disappear.

> Look at the patches in the Debian package for gnome-panel [1] (notably the
> one in experimental; see the .diff.gz [2] available from [3].

You can also access directly to the separate patches:

http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-gnome/desktop/unstable/gnome-panel/debian/patches/?rev=0&sc=0

-- 
 .''`.
: :' :  We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `'   We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
  `-our own. Resistance is futile.


signature.asc
Description: Ceci est une partie de message	numériquement signée
___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list

Re: gnome-panel logout menu

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 19:31 +0200, Wouter Bolsterlee wrote:
> 2008-05-12 klockan 18:55 skrev Karl Lattimer:
> > I'm just looking into building gnome-main-menu for fedora 9, I noticed
> > the lack of an actual exit function callable via the command line,
> > instead I can call gnome-session-save --kill to log out, but only log
> > out.
> > 
> > I looked through the gnome-panel source code to find out how the panel
> > calls the shutdown/hibernate etc... functions and find out that it is
> > built into the panel. It is also not available in the devel package as a
> > method callable by external applications.
> > 
> > It seems ludicrous to me that in order to build a replacement panel
> > menu, a completely new implementation of the logout screen must be
> > created. Is it not possible therefore to expose panel-logout in the
> > header files along side similar functions e.g. connect to server and
> > possibly other panel actions?
> 
> Debian includes a gnome-panel-logout binary to provide the logout dialog as
> a standalone program.  It makes much sense to get this upstream.
> 
> Look at the patches in the Debian package for gnome-panel [1] (notably the
> one in experimental; see the .diff.gz [2] available from [3].

Probably a standalone binary gnome-panel-logout is a workaround for
gnome-session 2.22. For the long term, gnome-session 2.23 have resolved
this issue. Shutdown and logout dialog are moved into gnome-session.
gnome-panel and other applications can require this via gnome-session
dbus interface. For new gnome-session, you can refer to below

  http://live.gnome.org/SessionManagement/NewGnomeSession

D-Bus inteface "org.gnome.SessionManager" is already available on
gnome-session trunk, On gnome-panel side, we only need a patch to call
new interface instead of owning gnome-panel specific dialog. I just made
a patch, hopefuly the patch can be push upstream in accordance with new
gnome-session. More details, please see

  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507391

Thanks,
-Simon


___
desktop-devel-list mailing list
desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list