Re: The name of applications on GNOME 3.7.92 testing image

[Ma Xiaojun]

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 3:31 AM, Florian Müllner  wrote:
> Nobody is excluding gedit. The gedit developers *want* their project
> to be called "gedit" rather than "Text Editor" [0]. The fact that some
> distributions disrespect that wish and rebrand gedit downstream is not
> enough of a reason to pick a weaker name for a different[1] upstream
> project in my opinion.

> [0] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153995 is fairly old,
> but the response to more recent attempts to rebrand gedit has been the
> same as far as I know
> [1] I'm explicitly not saying "competing" - as Jasper has pointed out,
> the target audience is quite different

Well, the bug you mentioned is more than 8 years ago :)
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Re: The name of applications on GNOME 3.7.92 testing image

[Ma Xiaojun]

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 3:12 AM, Mike  wrote:
> I agree with the fact that we need a simpler text editor, but let's
> just call it as "Textpad" or something... without excluding gedit.

Why?
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Re: The name of applications on GNOME 3.7.92 testing image

[meg ford]

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Mathieu Bridon
wrote:

>
> Most people I know use a word processor (MS Word, LibreOffice Writer,...)
> when they want to write text, even for quick things without formatting.
>
> I don't think a **simple** text editor à-la Notepad really is that useful
> for anybody. It might even be confusing for many people.
>
> Try to explain the difference between a "word processor" and a "text
> editor" for example. Usually, the next question is « But then what's the
> point of something that lets you type simple text, but without any
> formatting? »
>

I used to use word processing programs, but now I only use Google Docs (if
that counts as a word processing program), a text editor (for writing code
and taking notes in class), or a note-taking application.  Word processing
programs are (imo) generally unwieldy, inconvenient, and don't provide
enough document portability. As a student I want to have access to my
documents no matter what device I am using, so I tend to choose convenience
over lots of formatting options.  Anyway, that's just my use case.

Meg Ford

>
> I personally have no idea of the answer, as like you said, there are (or
> will be) dedicated apps for the interesting use cases (e.g note-taking).
>
>
> --
> Mathieu
>
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Re: A last blocker review for 3.8

[Travis Reitter]

On Fri, 2013-03-22 at 07:24 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:

> 695741nor Nor Linugnome-contacUNCO
> contacts is really slow to start

It's possible that this is due to a performance issue in libfolks. We've
been picking up performance work lately (starting with adding some
profiling tests to our test suite), so we'll hopefully be in much better
shape for 3.10. The main bugs to keep an eye on are bgo#689549 and
bgo#687671.

But as far as "blockers", this and the other performance bugs won't be
fixed by Monday, but hopefully within the next month or so.

-Travis

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Re: The name of applications on GNOME 3.7.92 testing image

[Florian Müllner]

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Mike  wrote:
> I agree with the fact that we need a simpler text editor, but let's
> just call it as "Textpad" or something... without excluding gedit.

Nobody is excluding gedit. The gedit developers *want* their project
to be called "gedit" rather than "Text Editor" [0]. The fact that some
distributions disrespect that wish and rebrand gedit downstream is not
enough of a reason to pick a weaker name for a different[1] upstream
project in my opinion.


[0] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153995 is fairly old,
but the response to more recent attempts to rebrand gedit has been the
same as far as I know
[1] I'm explicitly not saying "competing" - as Jasper has pointed out,
the target audience is quite different
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Re: The name of applications on GNOME 3.7.92 testing image

[Mike]

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Jasper St. Pierre
 wrote:
> gedit is becoming more of a programmer's editor, so the gedit team wants to
> keep the "gedit" brand while people work on a new simple Notepad-equivalent
> that will be called "Text Editor".

So the thing is, gedit has been called for "Text Editor" in many
distributions. Excluding gedit and refer to a new text editor will
make majority of users confuse.

I agree with the fact that we need a simpler text editor, but let's
just call it as "Textpad" or something... without excluding gedit.

>
> "Rhythmbox" and "Shotwell" are not core apps, they're third-party apps.
> "Music" and "Photos" are the entirely core apps, and they're not based on
> Rhythmbox and Shotwell for various reasons that I don't fully understand
> myself.
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 2:05 AM, Ma Xiaojun  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I find that some applications are showing their real names, e.g.,
>> gedit, Rhythmbox, Shotwell.
>> However, some applications are showing generic names, e.g., Files
>> (Nautilus), Web (Epiphany), Archive Manager (File Roller).
>>
>> Can anyone elaborate on this?
>> ___
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>
>
>
>
> --
>   Jasper
>
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Why gedit is considered "third-party" (was: The name of applications on GNOME 3.7.92 testing image)

[Ma Xiaojun]

I was a bit surprised to know that gedit is considered "third-party".

So I'd like to know:

* Is gedit contradict GNOME's core experience and/or pattern? Is such
issue fixable?
* Is there gedit alternative proposed? If there is one, can anyone give a link?

I will be unhappy if the gedit alternative, if exists, highly resemble
those poor text editors found in proprietary OS. (Notepad is poor and
TextEdit is no better than Notepad, IMHO.)
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Re: The name of applications on GNOME 3.7.92 testing image

[Mathieu Bridon]

On Saturday, March 23, 2013 02:11 AM, Maciej Piechotka wrote:

On Fri, 2013-03-22 at 12:51 -0400, Jasper St. Pierre wrote:

gedit is becoming more of a programmer's editor, so the gedit team
wants to keep the "gedit" brand while people work on a new simple
Notepad-equivalent that will be called "Text Editor".


What would be a use case for such application? Most people (based on my
own, 100% certain guess ;) ) who use text editors are willing to deal
with small extra complexity of GEdit/notepad++/... as compared to
Windows notepad. For those who don't there are specialized options like
notes or whatever replaces Tomboy. I fail to see why GEdit would be more
complicated for 'normal' users then notepad.


Most people I know use a word processor (MS Word, LibreOffice 
Writer,...) when they want to write text, even for quick things without 
formatting.


I don't think a **simple** text editor à-la Notepad really is that 
useful for anybody. It might even be confusing for many people.


Try to explain the difference between a "word processor" and a "text 
editor" for example. Usually, the next question is « But then what's the 
point of something that lets you type simple text, but without any 
formatting? »


I personally have no idea of the answer, as like you said, there are (or 
will be) dedicated apps for the interesting use cases (e.g note-taking).



--
Mathieu
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Re: The name of applications on GNOME 3.7.92 testing image

[Ma Xiaojun]

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 2:11 AM, Maciej Piechotka  wrote:
> What would be a use case for such application? Most people (based on my
> own, 100% certain guess ;) ) who use text editors are willing to deal
> with small extra complexity of GEdit/notepad++/... as compared to
> Windows notepad. For those who don't there are specialized options like
> notes or whatever replaces Tomboy. I fail to see why GEdit would be more
> complicated for 'normal' users then notepad.

Same here.
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Re: A last blocker review for 3.8

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 12:56:58PM +0100, Andre Klapper wrote:
> On Fri, 2013-03-22 at 12:46 +0100, Tomasz Torcz wrote:
> >   Side question: why those are called "blockers" if they do not block
> > the release on Monday?
> 
> Do you have a better word? "shouldfix'es"?

  NTH (nice to have) bugs?  I don't know specifically, but "blocker" is 
misleading.

-- 
Tomasz Torcz   ,,(...) today's high-end is tomorrow's embedded processor.''
xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl  -- Mitchell Blank on LKML

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Re: The name of applications on GNOME 3.7.92 testing image

[Maciej Piechotka]

On Fri, 2013-03-22 at 12:51 -0400, Jasper St. Pierre wrote:
> gedit is becoming more of a programmer's editor, so the gedit team
> wants to keep the "gedit" brand while people work on a new simple
> Notepad-equivalent that will be called "Text Editor".
> 
What would be a use case for such application? Most people (based on my
own, 100% certain guess ;) ) who use text editors are willing to deal
with small extra complexity of GEdit/notepad++/... as compared to
Windows notepad. For those who don't there are specialized options like
notes or whatever replaces Tomboy. I fail to see why GEdit would be more
complicated for 'normal' users then notepad.

Best regards

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Re: The name of applications on GNOME 3.7.92 testing image

[Andre Klapper]

On Sat, 2013-03-23 at 01:11 +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote:
> Are you kidding?

Could you use respectful language please, in case you also expect others
to take you seriously?

Thanks,
andre
-- 
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Re: The name of applications on GNOME 3.7.92 testing image

[Ma Xiaojun]

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:51 AM, Jasper St. Pierre
 wrote:
> gedit is becoming more of a programmer's editor, so the gedit team wants to
> keep the "gedit" brand while people work on a new simple Notepad-equivalent
> that will be called "Text Editor".

Are you kidding?
I don't think gedit out of the box can bother a user expect something
like Notepad.
FYI, in Ubuntu the gedit's .desktop is patched so gedit is called "Text Editor".

> "Rhythmbox" and "Shotwell" are not core apps, they're third-party apps.
> "Music" and "Photos" are the entirely core apps, and they're not based on
> Rhythmbox and Shotwell for various reasons that I don't fully understand
> myself.

We probably need "modern" look apps.
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Re: The name of applications on GNOME 3.7.92 testing image

[Jasper St. Pierre]

gedit is becoming more of a programmer's editor, so the gedit team wants to
keep the "gedit" brand while people work on a new simple Notepad-equivalent
that will be called "Text Editor".

"Rhythmbox" and "Shotwell" are not core apps, they're third-party apps.
"Music" and "Photos" are the entirely core apps, and they're not based on
Rhythmbox and Shotwell for various reasons that I don't fully understand
myself.


On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 2:05 AM, Ma Xiaojun  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I find that some applications are showing their real names, e.g.,
> gedit, Rhythmbox, Shotwell.
> However, some applications are showing generic names, e.g., Files
> (Nautilus), Web (Epiphany), Archive Manager (File Roller).
>
> Can anyone elaborate on this?
> ___
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>



-- 
  Jasper
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Re: Accessibility problem for 3.8

[Jiro Matsuzawa]

I've committed. Thanks!

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:54 AM, Jiro Matsuzawa  wrote:
> Thank you!
> I'll request the release team for a freeze break request.
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:32 AM, matthias.clasen
>  wrote:
>>
>> Looks good to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note™, an AT&T LTE smartphone
>>
>> Jiro Matsuzawa  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I filed the bug 696394 of gnome-control-center [1].
>> It prevents users from opening the a11y zoom option
>> window. It seems to be a significant problem, and
>> the fix is not difficult. I think it should be fixed
>> before the 3.8 release.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> [1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=696394
>>
>> --
>> Jiro Matsuzawa
>> E-mail:
>> jmatsuz...@gnome.org
>> jmatsuz...@src.gnome.org
>> matsuzawa...@gmail.com
>> GPG Key ID: 0xECC442E9
>> GPG Key Fingerprint: E086 C14A 869F BB0E 3541 19EB E370 B08B ECC4 42E9
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>
>
> --
> Jiro Matsuzawa
> E-mail:
>  jmatsuz...@gnome.org
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>  matsuzawa...@gmail.com
> GPG Key ID: 0xECC442E9
> GPG Key Fingerprint: E086 C14A 869F BB0E 3541 19EB E370 B08B ECC4 42E9



-- 
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E-mail:
 jmatsuz...@gnome.org
 jmatsuz...@src.gnome.org
 matsuzawa...@gmail.com
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GPG Key Fingerprint: E086 C14A 869F BB0E 3541 19EB E370 B08B ECC4 42E9
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RE: Accessibility problem for 3.8

[matthias.clasen]

Looks good to me.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note™, an AT&T LTE smartphoneJiro Matsuzawa 
 wrote:Hi,

I filed the bug 696394 of gnome-control-center [1].
It prevents users from opening the a11y zoom option
window. It seems to be a significant problem, and
the fix is not difficult. I think it should be fixed
before the 3.8 release.

What do you think?

[1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=696394

-- 
Jiro Matsuzawa
E-mail:
jmatsuz...@gnome.org
jmatsuz...@src.gnome.org
matsuzawa...@gmail.com
GPG Key ID: 0xECC442E9
GPG Key Fingerprint: E086 C14A 869F BB0E 3541 19EB E370 B08B ECC4 42E9
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Accessibility problem for 3.8

[Jiro Matsuzawa]

Hi,

I filed the bug 696394 of gnome-control-center [1].
It prevents users from opening the a11y zoom option
window. It seems to be a significant problem, and
the fix is not difficult. I think it should be fixed
before the 3.8 release.

What do you think?

[1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=696394

-- 
Jiro Matsuzawa
E-mail:
 jmatsuz...@gnome.org
 jmatsuz...@src.gnome.org
 matsuzawa...@gmail.com
GPG Key ID: 0xECC442E9
GPG Key Fingerprint: E086 C14A 869F BB0E 3541 19EB E370 B08B ECC4 42E9
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Re: A last blocker review for 3.8

[Matthias Clasen]

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 7:46 AM, Tomasz Torcz  wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 07:24:21AM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
>> 3.8.0 is around the corner; time for one last review of the bugs that
>> are currently marked as '3.8 target'. I am aware that we'll probably
>> not get them all fixed in time for next Monday, but it would be great
>> if everybody could have another look, and maybe pick one or two of
>> these to tackle.
>>
>
>   Side question: why those are called "blockers" if they do not block
> the release on Monday?

In bugzilla they are called 'GNOME target: 3.8'. No matter what you
call them, these are the bug that we would really like the maintainers
to address for the release on Monday. As Colin pointed out, some of
these we should seriously consider holding up the release for.
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Re: A last blocker review for 3.8

[Colin Walters]

On Fri, 2013-03-22 at 07:24 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:

> 696169nor Nor Linugnome-shell UNCODespite 
> moving mouse in
> Black Screen(Blank screen), gnome-shell doesn't switch to unlock
> screen.

This is one for which I'd say we should really consider delaying the
release.


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Re: A last blocker review for 3.8

[Andre Klapper]

On Fri, 2013-03-22 at 12:46 +0100, Tomasz Torcz wrote:
>   Side question: why those are called "blockers" if they do not block
> the release on Monday?

Do you have a better word? "shouldfix'es"?

andre
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Re: Details, System inside Settings

[Andreas Nilsson]

On 2013-03-22 03:30, Ma Xiaojun wrote:

Hi,

I'm still using the same 3.7.92 testing image.

What to expect from Details, System inside Settings? Wat does a gear
icon mean? No idea, too vague.

In the Overview tab, it's a mix of brief hardware information, GNOME
version and whether system is up-to-date?
I guess hardware information stuff should belongs to hardware panel
inside Settings and it should be more powerful so that we can forget
about lspci/lsusb command.

The rest two tabs make more sense being called "Preferred
Applications" or so together.

The Default Applications tab is too weak in functionality:
In a Web based world, a user probably care about Web only. You know,
everything except Music can be well served by Google's service.
But we are still using a "real computer", we probably care default
text editor for various file type, we probably care OOo or LibO to
handle OpenDocument files, ...
And also, something inside System panel cannot be applied system-wide?

The Removable Media tab has same issue that it cannot apply settings
system-wide (Remember we are inside System panel.)
You should file any individual bugs you encounter into Bugzilla (even if 
some of them might end up as WONTFIX, and that's ok too, happens to me 
all the time).

- Andreas
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Re: A last blocker review for 3.8

[Tomasz Torcz]

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 07:24:21AM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> 3.8.0 is around the corner; time for one last review of the bugs that
> are currently marked as '3.8 target'. I am aware that we'll probably
> not get them all fixed in time for next Monday, but it would be great
> if everybody could have another look, and maybe pick one or two of
> these to tackle.
> 

  Side question: why those are called "blockers" if they do not block
the release on Monday?

-- 
Tomasz Torcz   RIP is irrevelant. Spoofing is futile.
xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl Your routes will be aggreggated. -- Alex Yuriev

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Re: The name of applications on GNOME 3.7.92 testing image

[Andre Klapper]

On Fri, 2013-03-22 at 14:05 +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote:
> I find that some applications are showing their real names, e.g.,
> gedit, Rhythmbox, Shotwell.
> However, some applications are showing generic names, e.g., Files
> (Nautilus), Web (Epiphany), Archive Manager (File Roller).
> 
> Can anyone elaborate on this?

See https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Guidelines/ApplicationName

andre
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A last blocker review for 3.8

[Matthias Clasen]

3.8.0 is around the corner; time for one last review of the bugs that
are currently marked as '3.8 target'. I am aware that we'll probably
not get them all fixed in time for next Monday, but it would be great
if everybody could have another look, and maybe pick one or two of
these to tackle.


==
= Evolution
==

693101  maj Hig LinuEvolution   NEW IMAPx can 
vanish and
redownload folder summary
694322  nor Nor LinuEvolution   NEW Giant GTK 
warning when
connecting to network
686804  nor Nor All Evolution-DaUNCOGOA integration 
for Google Calendar
695704  nor Nor LinuEvolution-DaNEW gnome-contacts 
comes up empty here

==
= gdm
==

695081  blo Nor Linugdm UNCOGDM Crashes on login 
screen if
empty file /var/lib/gdm/run-initial-setup is present

==
= gnome-contacts
==

695741  nor Nor Linugnome-contacUNCOcontacts is 
really slow to start

==
= gnome-desktop
==

696118  nor Nor Linugnome-desktoUNCOCauses
gnome-settings-daemon to crash when running with Xorg 1.12

==
= gnome-settings-daemon
==

695848  nor Nor Linugnome-settinNEW Backlight 
doesn't turn on
after I open lid

==
= gnome-shell
==

658955  nor Nor Linugnome-shell UNCOi'm not idle
691987  nor Nor Linugnome-shell UNCOre-lock screen 
if we
crashed and were restarted
694755  cri Nor Linugnome-shell UNCOWhen clicking 
Activities,
sometimes gnome-shell crashes.
696157  nor Nor Linugnome-shell UNCOMemory leak 
when changing
background image
696159  nor Nor Linugnome-shell UNCODesktop icons 
move when
opening an application
696169  nor Nor Linugnome-shell UNCODespite moving 
mouse in
Black Screen(Blank screen), gnome-shell doesn't switch to unlock
screen.
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Re: Details, System inside Settings

[Matthias Clasen]

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 2:30 AM, Ma Xiaojun  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm still using the same 3.7.92 testing image.
>
> What to expect from Details, System inside Settings? Wat does a gear
> icon mean? No idea, too vague.
>
> In the Overview tab, it's a mix of brief hardware information, GNOME
> version and whether system is up-to-date?
> I guess hardware information stuff should belongs to hardware panel
> inside Settings and it should be more powerful so that we can forget
> about lspci/lsusb command.
>
> The rest two tabs make more sense being called "Preferred
> Applications" or so together.
>
> The Default Applications tab is too weak in functionality:
> In a Web based world, a user probably care about Web only. You know,
> everything except Music can be well served by Google's service.
> But we are still using a "real computer", we probably care default
> text editor for various file type, we probably care OOo or LibO to
> handle OpenDocument files, ...
> And also, something inside System panel cannot be applied system-wide?
>
> The Removable Media tab has same issue that it cannot apply settings
> system-wide (Remember we are inside System panel.)


We haven't redone that panel for 3.8; it may get some love for 3.10.
You should probably add your observations to
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=676575
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