Re: Announcing GNOME's official GitHub mirror
- Mensaje original - > De: Christophe Fergeau > Para: Debarshi Ray > CC: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Enviado: Jueves 15 de agosto de 2013 18:00 > Asunto: Re: Announcing GNOME's official GitHub mirror > > Hey, > > 2013/8/15 Debarshi Ray : >> If you are using GMail (a proprietary web application) for your GNOME >> work, and then turn around and start objecting to the use of GitHub as >> another / secondary distribution channel for our code, then, yes, I do >> find it insincere. >> >> Running your own email infrastructure is much much more easier than >> replicating GitHub with free software. >> >> If you don't even care about the easy things, then who are you to hold >> others to even higher standards? > > In my opinion, there's a big difference between someone's personal use > of a non-free service, and GNOME as an entity (which is supposed to > develop and promote free software) promoting a non-free service. This > is what the "GNOME's official GitHub mirror" tagline makes it > sound > like. I agree that using "official" can be misunderstood as the official or preferred way to interact with GNOME code. So just using the GNOME's github mirror is much clearer from my POV. Cheers, -- Juanjo Marin ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Touchscreen Compatibility [was: Feature proposal: combined system status menu]
> > De: Allan Day >Para: Alberto Ruiz >CC: desktop-devel-list >Enviado: Miércoles 24 de abril de 2013 18:34 >Asunto: Re: Touchscreen Compatibility [was: Feature proposal: combined system >status menu] > > >Alberto Ruiz wrote: >... >> we have to question >> ourselves if this is another trend like the netbook one that is >> somewhat transient and misleading. >... >> I'd make a distinction here between transformers (Docable tablet that >> turns into a laptop+trackpad) that switches between touch mode and >> keyboard/pointer mode. >> >> My question is, do we have data that backs up the notion that people >> actually want a touch screen in their laptops? Or is this just the >> OEMs following Windows 8 in the hope that they will sell more units? >... >> I don't believe there will be a single UI for both form factors. I can >> see value in having the ability to switch from tablet to PC with the >> same device as long as the application set is different and only apps >> shipped for each form factor are shown on each mode. >... >> I am just concerned about how much stuff that >> would make a great design for keyboard+pointer are we giving up to be >> touch friendly. I am afraid that if we go down that route we will end >> up with a not so great touch UI and a not so great keyboard+pointer >> UI. >> >> If it was up to me I would stick to be a great UI for what people >> knows and will keep using for as long as we are a keyboard+pointer >> desktop when it came to design criteria. But that's just me, I am just >> trying to have valuable conversation about this and making sure I >> understand what's in your mind moving forward. >... >> My problem with that approach is that you are somewhat giving users >> notion that they can use the desktop with a touch interface, and as >> long as you try to use a more complex app that ability goes away, >> that's ought to be frustrating. > >Sorry for the slow reply. > >Honestly, I don't see us sacrificing a huge amount to try and gain a >degree of touchscreen compatibility. All our designs are primarily >targeted at pointer and keyboard; we just try and steer clear of the >biggest touchscreen issues. With touch becoming much more common, that >doesn't seem like an entirely crazy thing to do. > >My main goal at this stage is to make sure that someone running GNOME >3 on a laptop with a touchscreen doesn't get something that is >*totally* broken for their device - that's it. > >That said, on a personal level I find the prospect of GNOME 3 running >on a laptop with a touchscreen or a transformer style hybrid to be an >appealing one. A laptop with a touchscreen would make some occasional >actions easier and more satisfying (think scrolling, zooming, >dragging, paging, etc). A hybrid wouldn't be a fully-fledged tablet >when in "tablet mode", but would be a convenient hardware arrangement >for certain activities, like watching a film or browsing the web. > Well, I think that is not easy to add touchscreen support without compromising the keyboard + mouse experience. I've seen many changes in GNOME 3 that I think are positive, because not only by improving the experience of mouse + keyboard users, but also by improving the experience in touchscreen devices. But also some problems has arisen in the effort of being compatible with touch devices.For example, I think that the UI of new applications like Documents are very touch friendly, but it's weird for keyboard + mouse users. It is weird because the interaction is very different from other core applications like Nautilus (Files). In Nautilus, double click opens a file, but only one click opens it in Documents, and the way of selecting elements and doing actions with selected elements is quite different. I think Documents works great in touch screen devices and it is a little bit clumpsy with mouse, and Nautilus works great in mouse and keyboard but not so good for touchscreen devices. In my opinion, the current keyboard + mouse experience must be preserved and the compatibility with touchscreen devices must be pursuited through the addition of new mechanics when touchscreen devices are detected and avoid any change that can be perceived such as a regression of the keyboard + mouse interactions. Just my two cents, -- Juanjo Marin ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: steam games
- Mensaje original - > De: Maciej Piechotka > Para: Tomasz Torcz > CC: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Enviado: Sábado 16 de febrero de 2013 11:33 > Asunto: Re: steam games > > On Sat, 2013-02-16 at 11:12 +0100, Tomasz Torcz wrote: >> On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:18:55AM +, Alberto Ruiz wrote: >> > I think that it'd be more interesting to engage with Valve to know > how >> > the GNOME platform could help steam get a better product. It is an >> > interesting ISV usecase. >> >> But GNOME platform is not Steam's target. Valve is targeting Unity, >> but virtue of making Ubuntu primary platform. GNOME is a niche for them. >> > > 1. I haven't contacted Valve directly it looks like they are playing > nice with other distros, which are not using Unity. For example they > change the license to make it distributable, remove apt-get dependency > autoinstall, post non-dpkg installer, give people who explicitly stated > they are not using Ubuntu early beta access etc. I haven't experienced > any problems with Valve games on Gentoo (I've experienced a few problems > with non-Valve games though and I needed to use Google). > 2. To at least some extend Unity is based on GNOME (not WM and few other > pieces). > If Valve games doesn't work with GNOME, gamers will switch to another environment. Valve is a big player in the game industry and it is expected new games will be released for Valve for Linux, so I think it is a good idea that Valve games (or games in general) can run in GNOME if possible. There are some predictions that say the GNU/Linux will be an important gaming platform. Just my two cents, -- Juanjo Marin ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Enterprise Active Directory support question
Hi ! In GNOME 3.6 Enterprise logins was introduced. This feature is very attractive for enterprise deployments because it makes possible to add GNOME workstations into Windows networks with Active Directory. My understanding of this feature is that it only enables users to log on their GNOME workstations, so it doesn't enable them to use the shared folders or network printers of their domains without login again for every shared resource. Is this correct ? If so, we can do any manual configuration for single-sign-on in a Active Directory domain in GNOME 3.6 ? Is there any plans for adding out-of-box single-sign-on in a Active Directory domain ? Another essential nice to have is a password expiration warning and the ability to change the passwords (if not implemented yet). Cheers, -- Juanjo Marin ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Videos from GUADEC/clarification about GNOME on tablets
- Mensaje original - > De: Maciej Piechotka > Para: "desktop-devel-list@gnome.org" > CC: > Enviado: Viernes 10 de agosto de 2012 7:57 > Asunto: Videos from GUADEC/clarification about GNOME on tablets > > Hi, > > Unfortunately I was not able to attend GUADEC this year. I tried to > catch up with it (BTW the site seems to be down - python cannot open > Liberation fonts apparently) - I got to "Bright Future of GNOME" so > far. > Unfortunatly for me the slides were on the 'supportive, non-informative' > side and I didn't understood much without text. > > 1. Are there/will there be a videos from GUADEC? AFAIK, GUADEC team is still working in the videos. I think that the guadec-list is the better place to ask (I've CCed this email) > 2. While I understand that mobile is new 'shiny' so far I am sceptical > of unified interfaces (and several other things from presentation like > pre-installed GNOME on tablet). I will stop here as it would be > pointless to complain a lot while admitting that one did not understood > presentation. What would be GNOME approach to it[1]? Xan and Juanjo presentation was a exposition of ideas they feel are around the GNOME community. Many disscussions took place during the GUADEC and they finally started to be addressed in the GNOME-OS BoF. I encourage to join to the gnome-os-list mailing to participate in the discussions and work in the several preliminary and prospective tasks that are taking place. Cheers, -- Juanjo Marin ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Mirroring GNOME on github
- Mensaje original - > De: Dodji Seketeli > Para: desktop-devel-list > CC: > Enviado: Martes 7 de agosto de 2012 22:12 > Asunto: Re: Mirroring GNOME on github > > Patryk Zawadzki a écrit: > >> The question is whether the freedom is more important than >> productivity of course. > > I'd rather keep the Freedom, and encourage people to work on improving > the productivity in the realm of that freedom we fought so hard to get. > > I mean, we could imagine asking the board to help us support a "Please > Host a GNOME" initiative, inviting people to donate to support gitorious > or, if their infrastructure doesn't have a good enough availability > track record, help to build up gitorious instances on our own servers. > > Of course, doing something like that would be less convenient than just > going to github, but that is the high road that I figure the great GNOME > community I care about would take. Until now, we have striven to make > the right choices, not necessarily the easy ones. > I agree with Dodji that we should keep freedom values and not use privative software in our workflow. Of course, I think individuals can use it if they please, but I don't think is a good idea embrace github as a project. Cheers, -- Juanjo Marin ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
A11yCamp invitation 30th-31st July, GUADEC, A Coruña
A11yCamp is an unconference designed to help improve GNOME Accessibility wherever we can. This includes, but is not limited to: Automated Testing Bug Triaging Design Distro Issues Documentation Free desktop Accessibility / GNOME Accessibility beyond GNOME GNOME 3.6 and Accessibility Always On Hacking on Accessibility Hacking and ensuring Accessibility Improving collaboration with other teams Marketing New Assistive Technologies Performance Bring your curiosity and questions, your eagerness to learn, your experiences to share, and your willingness to roll up your sleeves to Get Stuff Done. Quite a few members of the GNOME Accessibility Team will be present at this year's GUADEC. So let's take advantage of us all being in the same place. A11yCamp will be held on the 30th and 31st July after the GUADEC core days in A Coruña, Spain. This is an open event, but if you plan to participate, we encourage you to sign up [1], add the topics of your interest, and the times you are available. We also hope to make participation remotely available via at least IRC, so it is good idea to sign up even if you won't attend GUADEC. [1] https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/BoFs/A11yCamp2012 We hope to see you there! Cheers, -- The GNOME Accessibility Team ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: taking features away (compact view removed from Nautilus)
- Mensaje original - > De: Allan Day > Para: Federico Mena Quintero > CC: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Enviado: Lunes 2 de julio de 2012 17:03 > Asunto: Re: taking features away (compact view removed from Nautilus) > > Federico Mena Quintero wrote: > ... >> The anti-pattern for both removals is like, "there's some peeling > paint >> in this house - let's bulldoze the neighborhood". > ... > > How do you know that was the reason for the decision, if the > background hasn't been explained? The anti-pattern for that statement > is like, "assuming motivations out of ignorance". > That's the point of this thread, some decisions are taken and people make assumptions about the reasons behind based on the scarce info available. I think we must find a better way of communicating these changes. It is a difficult problem to address because designing GNOME by comittee doesn't work and we really need the leadership and expertise of the design team to reach a good user experience. But on the other hand, without properly communication, we lose the opportunity to develop a design pattern language in the GNOME community. I'm sorry for just point what I think that it is a problem without suggesting a defintive solution. I think Allan posts are very good explaining the design concepts and the new designs. Maybe this is the way to go. Cheers, -- Juanjo Marin ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: FSF's role in GNOME (was Re: Fwd: Questions for the board election candidates)
- Mensaje original - > De: Bradley M. Kuhn > Para: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > CC: > Enviado: Martes 22 de Mayo de 2012 23:38 > Asunto: Re: FSF's role in GNOME (was Re: Fwd: Questions for the board > election candidates) > > Brian Cameron wrote: >> I'd hardly say that you, Bradley, are the only person who values the > FSF >> who also contributes to GNOME. > > Oh, I didn't mean to indicate I was the only one! But, I can of course > only speak for myself. Meanwhile, I think the work that's done by FSF > through the Advisory Board that I've been a part is, *by itself*, a > valuable contribution that GNOME gets from FSF, without even considering > the other overlap points. > I'm a _very_ modest GNOME contributor and I value the FSF and I'm happy to have the FSF in our Advisory Board. Cheers, -- Juanjo Marin ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Some points about IM integration
> De: Justin Wong >CC: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >Enviado: Martes 15 de Mayo de 2012 18:05 >Asunto: Re: Some points about IM integration > > >Imagine, just imagine one day a desktop environment named the Kernel Desktop >Environment (KDE), would be integrated to linux kernel for better user >experience. U guys argue for kernel should not integrate a DE, then Linus >Torvalds come out and say: > >On May 15, 2012 7:28 AM, "Owen Taylor" wrote: >> >> In general, choice of input method framework is not a goal in itself. >> If we choose a single input method framework to integrate with GNOME - >> that doesn't make GNOME like proprietary software from Apple and Microsoft, >> because GNOME will still be 100% Free Software, and will still be developed >> in the open by the GNOME community. >> >If we choose KDE as defualt and unchangable DE of linux, it doesn't make linux >like proprietary software from micro$oft, because linux will still be 100% >free software, and will still be developed in the open by the linux community. > > > Please, keep the focus on the problem: Providing a good input method support in GNOME. The election of a single IM framework, or not, is a matter of implementation, that users don't care as long as problem is solved and the solution can be maintained by the community. Cheers, -- Juanjo Marin ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Gnome 3 issues
- Mensaje original - > De: Juanjo Marín > Para: surma ; "desktop-devel-list@gnome.org" > > CC: > Enviado: Jueves 3 de Mayo de 2012 18:23 > Asunto: Re: Gnome 3 issues > >it is totally functional IMHO. > BTW, I recommend GNOME 3.4, previous versions had some issues in my experience. > > You don't need gconf to switch to the fallback mode. Go to > > System Settings > Graphics > Forced fallback mode > System Settings > Details > Graphics > Forced fallback mode ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Gnome 3 issues
>Why did you screw up gnome menus? >I've been using gnome since 2000, and it >has been the best desktop available until gnome 3 >came. I had a terrible car accident 31. Dets 2005, >which caused me to spend 6 months in coma. >That messed up my hands and I can't use mouse. >That is why I liked gnome 2, everything could be done >without mouse. >And strange is ... why does virtualbox have normal >menus, but real PC has this big mouse controlled >menu?? >VBox gnome 3: http://www.hot.ee/surma/Vbox_gnome3.jpg >But real computers have this crappy menu: >http://blog.fpmurphy.com/blog-images/gnome3cust1-40.png Hi Surma ! GNOME shell can be navigated using only the keyboard. Please, read https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/CheatSheet to to know how to use it. I was using only the keyboard when I read this email, so I know it can be used. I think shortcuts so some functions could a good idea, but it is totally functional IMHO. >Here's an idea: >Maake it so, under gonf-editor you can choose the layout of the menu. >-Surma You don't need gconf to switch to the fallback mode. Go to System Settings > Graphics > Forced fallback mode Cheers, -- Juanjo Marin ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Feature proposal: Alternative input system based on low-cost webcam
- Mensaje original - > De: Michael Biebl > Para: Richard Hughes > CC: Cesar Mauri ; desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Enviado: lunes 24 de octubre de 2011 0:31 > Asunto: Re: Feature proposal: Alternative input system based on low-cost > webcam > > 2011/10/22 Richard Hughes : >> On 21 October 2011 17:28, Piñeiro wrote: >>> * Look and feel: some people could not agree with current interface >>> [2]. This shouldn't be a blocker thought. >>> This feature proposal would include the proposal of wxWidgets >>> as a external dependency. >> >> wxWidgets applications differ lots from "native" applications. I >> really don't think depending on wxWidgets is a good idea. > > Although I'm not an active user of wxWidgets I do know that the > maintenance of wxWidgets in Debian has always been a major hassle. > E.g. there still isn't a stable upstream release of wxWidgets that > supports GTK 3. There is supposed to be one beginning next year, but > apparently that has been said since almost three years. > And the current stable branch, 2.8, still uses obsolete libraries like > libgnomeprint and apparently wxWidgets upstream likes to introduce > disruptive changes within a stable branch. > GTK+3 support is in the roadmap for the next stable wxWidgets 3.0. And there is development branch with workable code in [1]. I think that the printing support comment is not applicable here, because the use of wxWidgets is pretty limited to the GUI. Anyway, the use of libgnomeprint was optional and beginning with version wxWidgets 2.9, you can use the GTK+ printing support [2]. Cheers, -- Juanjo Marin [1] http://svn.wxwidgets.org/svn/wx/wxWidgets/branches/SOC2011_GTK3/ [2] http://docs.wxwidgets.org/2.9.2/overview_unixprinting.html ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Feature proposal: Alternative input system based on low-cost webcam
- Mensaje original - > De: Richard Hughes > Para: Piñeiro > CC: Cesar Mauri ; desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Enviado: sábado 22 de octubre de 2011 11:47 > Asunto: Re: Feature proposal: Alternative input system based on low-cost > webcam > > On 21 October 2011 17:28, Piñeiro wrote: >> * Repositories: right now it is on sourceforge. This shouldn't be a >> blocker thought. > > I'm pretty sure it needs to be on git.gnome.org > >> * Look and feel: some people could not agree with current interface >> [2]. This shouldn't be a blocker thought. >> This feature proposal would include the proposal of wxWidgets >> as a external dependency. > > wxWidgets applications differ lots from "native" applications. I > really don't think depending on wxWidgets is a good idea. Well, I think a wxWidgets application can look like a native GNOME application if you want to, and it's not difficult for an average GUI. You're using native GTK widgets after all. >> In addition to wxwidgets, eViacam has also dependencies with opencv and >> libv4l1, that should be included as external dependencies. > > Shouldn't eViacam should be ported to libv4l2? I checked the lastest version of eviacam and it uses the v4l2 API. I think that it just that the configure file uses linux/videodev.h and libv4l1-videodev.h for detecting the presence of v4l, that consist of 3 different libraries: libv4lconvert, libv4l1 and libv4l2. Cheers, -- Juanjo Marin ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME 3 panel applets
> >De: Narek Babadjanyan >Para: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org >Enviado: lunes 12 de septiembre de 2011 16:55 >Asunto: GNOME 3 panel applets > > >Hello, hackers! I have recently installed a package gnome-panel-devel and I >would like to know if it supports GNOME 3's panel, if no :'( , and if yes, >could you please tell me where is the appropriate documentation? Hi Narek, gnome-panel isn't thought to be in used inside gnome-shell. However, I read about a hack for running gnome-panel inside gnome-shell, though It isn't a recommended nor supported option: http://carlosgc.linups.org/gnome/gnome-panel-dock.html The recommended option to modify gnome-shell is through extensions. For example, check the following extensions (I didn't cause I'm fine with vanilla gnome-shell): https://github.com/ahdiaz/gnome-shell-reflection https://github.com/ahdiaz/gnome-shell-windowslist Cheers, -- Juanjo Marin ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: On the Interaction with the design team
- Mensaje original - > De: Dave Neary > Para: Emmanuele Bassi > CC: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > Enviado: lunes 6 de junio de 2011 10:59 > Asunto: Re: On the Interaction with the design team > > Hi, > > Emmanuele Bassi wrote: >> can you please explain to me, in a short sentence, what do you want to >> achieve? not how, but precisely what. > > I have said that already: I want to enable the design team to work > productively with the entire GNOME development community. > > Right now a small number of designers are working effectively with a > small number of developers, and I've observed increasing discontent > among developers not on the inside. > >> Dave, Johannes: do you want to participate in the design decisions? > > No - I think that designers should be making design decisions, after > collaborating with the developers affected. > I agree with Dave. It is true that the design team has worked for GNOME 3.0, but I think there is room for improvement, specially to help people to figure out how to deal with usability problems in GNOME and trying to be more informative ( for DIY solutions ) and even easier to approach for developers, even those who are don't see any usabiliy problems on his apps ;). Just my 2 cents, -- Juanjo Marin ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
