Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Christian Hergert wrote: > I did contact her yesterday and the answer was jitsi. It seems > reasonable, but I haven't had a chance to test it out yet. > > https://jitsi.org/ FWIW, I just tried this, and it seems to work similarly to ghangouts, except that you don't need a google account, which seems to make this even easier. Eg: https://meet.jit.si/gnomehackers would just work for everyone. You might have to change some settings if you want to make it private. I didn't test screen sharing features or any appreciable size of users connected simultaneously. Of note, it seems the meet feature was recently relicensed to ALv2 to make it easier to enable proprietary addons for other developers, but it's not something I have much information on. HTH ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
I've managed to make some room to attend the hackfest, count me in, I'm adding myself to the wiki. 2016-01-10 18:55 GMT+00:00 Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) : > Hi, > > On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: > > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] > > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > > Jitsi works fine for meetings. All each participant needs is > > to visit a given URL; it could hardly be easier. > > FWIW, I just tested this here with help from Lasse Schuirmann and and > Jakub Steiner. For me and Lasse, it worked like a charm, out of the > box (actually better first time experience than with Google hangout > since you are not asked to download/install some packages). However, > Jakub had some issues getting video to work and then some problem with > mic as well but IIUC, it was to do with his special hardware not being > properly supported by drivers. > > > I thought we were looking for one-way streaming to a lot of people, > > not for a meeting. But I could have misunderstood that. > > It's a hackfest, so while the primary objective is one-way > communication, it would be very much desirable IMO for remote > participants to be able to talk with us. > > -- > Regards, > > Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) > > Befriend GNOME: http://www.gnome.org/friends/ > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > -- Cheers, Alberto Ruiz ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
Hi, On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Jitsi works fine for meetings. All each participant needs is > to visit a given URL; it could hardly be easier. FWIW, I just tested this here with help from Lasse Schuirmann and and Jakub Steiner. For me and Lasse, it worked like a charm, out of the box (actually better first time experience than with Google hangout since you are not asked to download/install some packages). However, Jakub had some issues getting video to work and then some problem with mic as well but IIUC, it was to do with his special hardware not being properly supported by drivers. > I thought we were looking for one-way streaming to a lot of people, > not for a meeting. But I could have misunderstood that. It's a hackfest, so while the primary objective is one-way communication, it would be very much desirable IMO for remote participants to be able to talk with us. -- Regards, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) Befriend GNOME: http://www.gnome.org/friends/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Christian Hergert wrote: > On 12/24/2015 11:17 AM, philip.chime...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > I'm really interested in participating but circumstances prevent me from > > attending in person. I just signed up as the first remote participant. > > My purpose with this e-mail is to encourage other remotees to sign up; > > and to ask for some ideas about how remotees can meaningfully > participate. > > This is great, and something I'd like to see more of, given what travel > does to our environment. > > What can we do to make sure you feel enabled to participate? > > Assuming you'll be in Vancouver, -9 hours from Belgium, this is going to > be quite a sacrifice for you. We usually get started between 09:00 and > 10:00, so midnight to sunrise for you. > > Alternatively, if we're good about having work items on a public board, > you could work on things while we sleep, in true F/OSS fashion. > > So I guess that brings me back to my question, what can we do? > Sorry for the delay in replying; partly to let the video chat discussion settle, and partly disconnecting for holidays. It's unlikely that I'll be able to contribute meaningfully if I stay up all night. So, I would prefer the asynchronous method. I am still trying to figure out how much time I can devote to the hackfest, but if there is a discussion or whiteboarding session at the beginning of the (GMT+1) day, then I can definitely join in, either on a one-way live stream, or on a multi-way conversation, and figure out what to contribute to from there. I am still trying to figure out just how much time I am able to devote during those days. * Remote video? (assuming participants are comfortable with that) > I personally am comfortable. > * More IRC conversations, or dedicated stenographer? > Probably a list of outcomes of conversations, for people who are not able to join in live. I personally like to do this even if all the participants in the same room. * Etherpad for notes/conversations? > Never tried it, but it seems great. > I think one thing that would help is for remote participants to prepare > a list of topics they'd like to ensure are discussed, since we usually > start by white-boarding topics for the 3-day session. > Yep, I added my topics to the list when I signed-up (namely, documentation browser that I've been working on, and GJS), but I'd be happy to elaborate on that so that you have more than just a few keywords. Regards, -- Philip C. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Jitsi works fine for meetings. All each participant needs is to visit a given URL; it could hardly be easier. I thought we were looking for one-way streaming to a lot of people, not for a meeting. But I could have misunderstood that. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
Den 30 dec. 2015 8:36 fm skrev "Christian Hergert" : > > I did contact her yesterday and the answer was jitsi. It seems > reasonable, but I haven't had a chance to test it out yet. > > https://jitsi.org/ I've used it once or twice and it worked fine then FWIW. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
> The problem is that we already have an existing method that uses non free > software that is easy and does not require expert help to host or join. Using that method may be easy, but it is harmful to the free software cause. > What we were asking for is an alternative free software service that > provides a similar setup experience to the non free solution. We don't know how similar or dissimilar they are, but you can find out quickly by writing to Mallory Knodel . She said she wants to prepare web pages about this for the GNU Project, but that make take more time. > Telling us that you have experts who can help set it up does not instill > confidence in your solution. An absence of evidence (which is what you have) is not evidence of anything in particular. Write to Mallory and get some evidence. But those details won't change the situation very much, because we already know that the other "solution" is not a valid solution at all. A nonfree program isn't a solution, it's the problem. See http://gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
Mallory Knodel says that I can post her name and email address. Please write to her for instructions about free software streaming. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
On Tue, 2015-12-29 at 12:56 +, Jasper St. Pierre wrote: > The problem is that we already have an existing method that uses non > free software that is easy and does not require expert help to host > or join. What we were asking for is an alternative free software > service that provides a similar setup experience to the non free > solution. > > Telling us that you have experts who can help set it up does not > instill confidence in your solution. > > If there is no free solution that has a similar easy setup experience > , perhaps the GNU project should invest in building such a service. Jangouts might be something worth to give a try and keep an eye on it. It is a self-hosted solution that uses WebRTC and JavaScript. It has a MIT license. https://github.com/jangouts/jangouts -- Germán Poo-Caamaño http://calcifer.org/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
Le mardi 29 décembre 2015 à 12:56 +, Jasper St. Pierre a écrit : > If there is no free solution that has a similar easy setup > experience, perhaps the GNU project should invest in building such a > service. If you can afford to focus on WebRTC based solution, implementing an Open Source service shall keep the complexity to it's lowest. Though, the stability will depend on the quality of the browser WebRTC support, that's where the complex code is. You could also achieve better privacy then most proprietary services, though this is at the cost of bigger bandwidth and possibly bigger processor power on client side. cheers, Nicolas signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
The problem is that we already have an existing method that uses non free software that is easy and does not require expert help to host or join. What we were asking for is an alternative free software service that provides a similar setup experience to the non free solution. Telling us that you have experts who can help set it up does not instill confidence in your solution. If there is no free solution that has a similar easy setup experience, perhaps the GNU project should invest in building such a service. On Tue, Dec 29, 2015, 1:47 AM Richard Stallman wrote: > > > It is easy to do streaming with free software, in a way that lets > > > everyone watch with free software, > > > Incorrect. It is possible, but it is not easy... > > That is a somewhat harsh way to say that you disagree. > > I have never done video streaming myself, by any method, but the > people who give advice say they can guide non-wizards. > > (I would post the email address here, but it seems unkind > to post someone's email address publicly without asking. > I asked them if it is ok.) > > > > and I know people who would be glad > > > to help you do this. > > > ... and this is why. ;) > > I can't make sense of that statement. Surely the ease of streaming is > not a function of how I wrote the message. > > > You could have made it easier, than it is now, by pointing to an URL > > which tells us how to do it > > I have doubts about that. A URL might be better for a wizard, who > could read it immediately rather than waiting for a response. > However, for someone who is not a wizard, personal guidance from an > expert is likely to be more helpful. You can ask the expert to > explain any point that you don't understand -- something that you > can't do with a URL. > > Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that the URL is more helpful > than offering to put you in touch with an expert. What's the right > way to respond to something that is helpful but could have been more > so? "Why didn't you do it the other way?" seems ungrateful and > nonconstructive. > > I will ask them for a URL I could post. > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) > Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) > Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. > > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
> > It is easy to do streaming with free software, in a way that lets > > everyone watch with free software, > Incorrect. It is possible, but it is not easy... That is a somewhat harsh way to say that you disagree. I have never done video streaming myself, by any method, but the people who give advice say they can guide non-wizards. (I would post the email address here, but it seems unkind to post someone's email address publicly without asking. I asked them if it is ok.) > > and I know people who would be glad > > to help you do this. > ... and this is why. ;) I can't make sense of that statement. Surely the ease of streaming is not a function of how I wrote the message. > You could have made it easier, than it is now, by pointing to an URL > which tells us how to do it I have doubts about that. A URL might be better for a wizard, who could read it immediately rather than waiting for a response. However, for someone who is not a wizard, personal guidance from an expert is likely to be more helpful. You can ask the expert to explain any point that you don't understand -- something that you can't do with a URL. Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that the URL is more helpful than offering to put you in touch with an expert. What's the right way to respond to something that is helpful but could have been more so? "Why didn't you do it the other way?" seems ungrateful and nonconstructive. I will ask them for a URL I could post. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
opentokrtc.com seems to be opensource, but it also appears to be a demo, and may not be very stable, nor available for very long. talky is a Node.js app and, if not available opensource, seems to be otherwise "free" - no registration and no obligation of any kind... I didn't see a limit to the number of participants. -Rick On Mon, 2015-12-28 at 21:10 +0100, Tobias Mueller wrote: > Hi! > > On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 07:31:19PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote: > > Is there an existing (hosted) solution alternative to hangouts? > > Pretty > > much as simple as: "go to this URL"? > I know talky.io, appear.in, opentokrtc.com, appr.tc, > meetme, japkin, and others. > > I think all of them are not Free Software though. > So essentially Skype in a Web browser. > > Firefox Hello is probably the freest implementation. > I haven't used it, though. > > Cheers, > Tobi > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
Hi! On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 07:31:19PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote: > Is there an existing (hosted) solution alternative to hangouts? Pretty > much as simple as: "go to this URL"? I know talky.io, appear.in, opentokrtc.com, appr.tc, meetme, japkin, and others. I think all of them are not Free Software though. So essentially Skype in a Web browser. Firefox Hello is probably the freest implementation. I haven't used it, though. Cheers, Tobi ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 10:03:55AM -0300, Hugo Alejandro wrote: > http://rtcquickstart.org/ > > Daniel Pocock Daniel has always offered their help in creating and improving > communications through opensource protocols. That's pretty far off from what we're looking for. Above describes how to setup an extensive infrastructure to do pretty much everything related to communications. That such an extensive document is called "quickstart" gives me the shivers! Is there an existing (hosted) solution alternative to hangouts? Pretty much as simple as: "go to this URL"? -- Regards, Olav ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
http://rtcquickstart.org/ Daniel Pocock Daniel has always offered their help in creating and improving communications through opensource protocols. 2015-12-28 6:00 GMT-03:00 Debarshi Ray : > On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 10:57:35PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > > It is easy to do streaming with free software, in a way that lets > > everyone watch with free software, > > Incorrect. It is possible, but it is not easy... > > > and I know people who would be glad > > to help you do this. > > ... and this is why. ;) > > You could have made it easier, than it is now, by pointing to an URL > which tells us how to do it instead of taking the "I know people..." > approach. > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 10:57:35PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > It is easy to do streaming with free software, in a way that lets > everyone watch with free software, Incorrect. It is possible, but it is not easy... > and I know people who would be glad > to help you do this. ... and this is why. ;) You could have made it easier, than it is now, by pointing to an URL which tells us how to do it instead of taking the "I know people..." approach. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
> We did run a live stream on Google Hangouts during the first day of > the Content Apps Hackfest in Madrid. Google Hangouts requires nonfree software. Please don't ask people to run a nonfree program in order to view something. It is easy to do streaming with free software, in a way that lets everyone watch with free software, and I know people who would be glad to help you do this. When you want to do streaming, please write to me and I will put you in touch with them. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
Hey, [Removed a few mailing lists from CC] On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 02:49:34PM -0800, Christian Hergert wrote: > * Remote video? (assuming participants are comfortable with that) We did run a live stream on Google Hangouts during the first day of the Content Apps Hackfest in Madrid. Instead of making it a public broadcast, we specifically invited only those who had expressed a desire to participate remotely. This does require having a spare laptop to run the stream. Cheers, Rishi ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: [Builder] Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
Hi! I'm really interested in participating but circumstances prevent me from attending in person. I just signed up as the first remote participant. My purpose with this e-mail is to encourage other remotees to sign up; and to ask for some ideas about how remotees can meaningfully participate. (Other) Philip On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 7:06 AM Philip Withnall wrote: > Hi all, > > A reminder that the DX hackfest is happening in a little over a month, > so please make sure you are signed up on the wiki page, and your > transport and accommodation are sorted out! > > Philip > > On Sun, 2015-12-13 at 13:50 +, Philip Withnall wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > There’s going to be a developer experience (DX) hackfest at the end > > of > > January 2016 (27–29th January) in Brussels, just before FOSDEM. This > > should be a really useful hackfest for pushing forward the roadmap > > for > > developer tools and toolkits in GNOME! > > > > https://wiki.gnome.org/Hackfests/DeveloperExperience2016 > > > > Anyone who has relevant interests in the developer experience is > > welcome, so please sign up ASAP on the wiki page. > > > > If you plan to apply for travel or accommodation sponsorship, please > > do > > so in the next week (and certainly no later than the end of December) > > to the travel committee, so they have time to process requests. > > > > https://wiki.gnome.org/Travel > > > > The venue will be the betacowork coworking centre in Brussels. It is > > kindly being sponsored by betacowork and ICAB. Thanks! > > • http://www.betacowork.com/ > > • http://www.icabrussel.be/ > > > > Philip___ > Builder-list mailing list > builder-l...@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/builder-list > ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
Hi all, A reminder that the DX hackfest is happening in a little over a month, so please make sure you are signed up on the wiki page, and your transport and accommodation are sorted out! Philip On Sun, 2015-12-13 at 13:50 +, Philip Withnall wrote: > Hi all, > > There’s going to be a developer experience (DX) hackfest at the end > of > January 2016 (27–29th January) in Brussels, just before FOSDEM. This > should be a really useful hackfest for pushing forward the roadmap > for > developer tools and toolkits in GNOME! > > https://wiki.gnome.org/Hackfests/DeveloperExperience2016 > > Anyone who has relevant interests in the developer experience is > welcome, so please sign up ASAP on the wiki page. > > If you plan to apply for travel or accommodation sponsorship, please > do > so in the next week (and certainly no later than the end of December) > to the travel committee, so they have time to process requests. > > https://wiki.gnome.org/Travel > > The venue will be the betacowork coworking centre in Brussels. It is > kindly being sponsored by betacowork and ICAB. Thanks! > • http://www.betacowork.com/ > • http://www.icabrussel.be/ > > Philip signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Developer experience (DX) hackfest 2016
Hi all, There’s going to be a developer experience (DX) hackfest at the end of January 2016 (27–29th January) in Brussels, just before FOSDEM. This should be a really useful hackfest for pushing forward the roadmap for developer tools and toolkits in GNOME! https://wiki.gnome.org/Hackfests/DeveloperExperience2016 Anyone who has relevant interests in the developer experience is welcome, so please sign up ASAP on the wiki page. If you plan to apply for travel or accommodation sponsorship, please do so in the next week (and certainly no later than the end of December) to the travel committee, so they have time to process requests. https://wiki.gnome.org/Travel The venue will be the betacowork coworking centre in Brussels. It is kindly being sponsored by betacowork and ICAB. Thanks! • http://www.betacowork.com/ • http://www.icabrussel.be/ Philip signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list