Re: Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Allan Day wrote: > Seif Lotfy wrote: > > On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Allan Day wrote: > >> > >> Seif Lotfy wrote: > >> > I created a new wiki page for this. Hylke and Garrett have been > helping > >> > out > >> > on the idea and the design. > >> > > >> > > >> > > https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointFive/Features/FindingAndRediscoveringSharedLinks > >> > >> I'm confused. Your original proposal for this feature was to add > >> functionality to Web or Contacts. Now you are talking about a new > >> application. What exactly are you proposing? > ... > > I would like to have the feature there in any way standalone or > integrated. > > Hylke thought it would make sense to have it as a standalone > application, so > > he approached the designs as a standalone. I am ok with both. > > > > Can you elaborate why a standalone application might not be a good idea? > > (not that you claimed it, but I am just assuming here). What is required > to > > consider is whether to have this integrated or stand-alone? There might > be > > good reasons for both. > > A standalone application is totally fine, in my opinion. I don't think > a shared links application belongs in the core though (in which case > you don't need to propose it). > > > I currently don't see this feature integrated into contacts or chat > > honestly. If it is to be integrated in an application then it should be > Web. > > My reasoning behind this is that one uses "Web" to browse websites. And > the > > queue feature is already planned and approved by the design team. So > having > > something to populate the queue makes more sense since it is a central > place > > to look for links. Instead of going to contacts or to chat to look for > > links. > > As I've already said, I think this could make sense in contacts (as > part of a 'related stuff' feature) or in chat (perhaps as a > conversation filter). Remember - people look for things in the last > place they saw them. Related stuff is a good solution, but I fail to see how it would help me find links that were sent to me, without knowing exactly who sent it. Example: you remember one of the designers sent you a link but you can't remember who. Wouldn't a dedicated view with links you received that also show a nice preview would help out? Shouldn't the view be dedicated and globally encapsulate all the links your received from contacts? I think this feature in Web would allow seamless browsing without having to open "contacts" or "chat" to find the links that were sent. For me it is much easier to remove things to the queue than adding stuff. So personally having my queue populated for me, would make my life much much easier. I agree that people look for things in the last place they saw them, yet people need to option to search and explore if they can't find what they are looking for. We have Documents to aggregate all the documents on the local drives as well as the cloud. Why not have Web aggregate all the links that are being sent to me in the queue or a new queue? Cheers Seif Allan > -- > IRC: aday on irc.gnome.org > Blog: http://afaikblog.wordpress.com/ > ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote: > On Fri, 2012-05-04 at 14:13 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero wrote: > > On Thu, 2012-04-19 at 15:48 +0100, Martyn Russell wrote: > > > > > Back when I was working on Gossip, I had a "links" tab in the chat > > > log/history for exactly this reason. I frequently dig out old links. > > > > > > The most important things are: > > > > > > - The link > > > - Who sent it > > > - What medium > > > - When > > > > I would find this REALLY useful! > > For me, something mining the chat logs for links would be absolutely > useless. My shared links come from Facebook, Twitter or IRC. > While I agree with you that shared links come from twitter and facebook mostly. Doesn't IRC count as a chat log? Correct me if I am wrong, but usually when I share a link via social network it is not the same as sharing a link via IM. Sharing via IM is more personal IMHO. In my personal case I don't go through links shared with me via Facebook or Twitter since mostly it is just spam. Links that are shared with me directly are more important for me. > > Whatever system we use, we'd need to be able to remember attribution: > > http://getpocket.com/blog/2011/02/version-2-4-for-ios-login-support-tweet-attribution-and-more/ > > > I have a "To read" bookmarks folder in Firefox, which is full of crap > > which I haven't bothered to delete after viewing. > > http://getpocket.com > > Or Instapaper. > > > It's just so much > > work to maintain such a list by hand that I don't bother. And yet, > > there are interesting things there, which would be much more useful if > > they had information of how I had acquired them - who sent them to me, > > etc. > > > > +1 for this feature. > > It needs to also remember which "post" the link was sent in so I can > attribute or comment properly. > I agree here. Remembering the context of the link is important. > > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > Cheers Seif ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
Seif Lotfy wrote: > On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Allan Day wrote: >> >> Seif Lotfy wrote: >> > I created a new wiki page for this. Hylke and Garrett have been helping >> > out >> > on the idea and the design. >> > >> > >> > https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointFive/Features/FindingAndRediscoveringSharedLinks >> >> I'm confused. Your original proposal for this feature was to add >> functionality to Web or Contacts. Now you are talking about a new >> application. What exactly are you proposing? ... > I would like to have the feature there in any way standalone or integrated. > Hylke thought it would make sense to have it as a standalone application, so > he approached the designs as a standalone. I am ok with both. > > Can you elaborate why a standalone application might not be a good idea? > (not that you claimed it, but I am just assuming here). What is required to > consider is whether to have this integrated or stand-alone? There might be > good reasons for both. A standalone application is totally fine, in my opinion. I don't think a shared links application belongs in the core though (in which case you don't need to propose it). > I currently don't see this feature integrated into contacts or chat > honestly. If it is to be integrated in an application then it should be Web. > My reasoning behind this is that one uses "Web" to browse websites. And the > queue feature is already planned and approved by the design team. So having > something to populate the queue makes more sense since it is a central place > to look for links. Instead of going to contacts or to chat to look for > links. As I've already said, I think this could make sense in contacts (as part of a 'related stuff' feature) or in chat (perhaps as a conversation filter). Remember - people look for things in the last place they saw them. Allan -- IRC: aday on irc.gnome.org Blog: http://afaikblog.wordpress.com/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
> http://getpocket.com > > Or Instapaper. Instapaper. I'm having to explain to the pocket engineer that this isn't a valid XML document: ... ... :/ Ross ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
On Fri, 2012-05-04 at 14:13 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero wrote: > On Thu, 2012-04-19 at 15:48 +0100, Martyn Russell wrote: > > > Back when I was working on Gossip, I had a "links" tab in the chat > > log/history for exactly this reason. I frequently dig out old links. > > > > The most important things are: > > > > - The link > > - Who sent it > > - What medium > > - When > > I would find this REALLY useful! For me, something mining the chat logs for links would be absolutely useless. My shared links come from Facebook, Twitter or IRC. Whatever system we use, we'd need to be able to remember attribution: http://getpocket.com/blog/2011/02/version-2-4-for-ios-login-support-tweet-attribution-and-more/ > I have a "To read" bookmarks folder in Firefox, which is full of crap > which I haven't bothered to delete after viewing. http://getpocket.com Or Instapaper. > It's just so much > work to maintain such a list by hand that I don't bother. And yet, > there are interesting things there, which would be much more useful if > they had information of how I had acquired them - who sent them to me, > etc. > > +1 for this feature. It needs to also remember which "post" the link was sent in so I can attribute or comment properly. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Allan Day wrote: > Seif Lotfy wrote: > > I created a new wiki page for this. Hylke and Garrett have been helping > out > > on the idea and the design. > > > > > https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointFive/Features/FindingAndRediscoveringSharedLinks > > I'm confused. Your original proposal for this feature was to add > functionality to Web or Contacts. Now you are talking about a new > application. What exactly are you proposing? > > Allan > -- > IRC: aday on irc.gnome.org > Blog: http://afaikblog.wordpress.com/ > I would like to have the feature there in any way standalone or integrated. Hylke thought it would make sense to have it as a standalone application, so he approached the designs as a standalone. I am ok with both. Can you elaborate why a standalone application might not be a good idea? (not that you claimed it, but I am just assuming here). What is required to consider is whether to have this integrated or stand-alone? There might be good reasons for both. I currently don't see this feature integrated into contacts or chat honestly. If it is to be integrated in an application then it should be Web. My reasoning behind this is that one uses "Web" to browse websites. And the queue feature is already planned and approved by the design team. So having something to populate the queue makes more sense since it is a central place to look for links. Instead of going to contacts or to chat to look for links. Cheers Seif ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
Seif Lotfy wrote: > I created a new wiki page for this. Hylke and Garrett have been helping out > on the idea and the design. > > https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointFive/Features/FindingAndRediscoveringSharedLinks I'm confused. Your original proposal for this feature was to add functionality to Web or Contacts. Now you are talking about a new application. What exactly are you proposing? Allan -- IRC: aday on irc.gnome.org Blog: http://afaikblog.wordpress.com/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
On 05/08/2012 08:06 PM, Seif Lotfy wrote: I created a new wiki page for this. Hylke and Garrett have been helping out on the idea and the design. https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointFive/Features/FindingAndRediscoveringSharedLinks Interesting. My comments: - Is the paste/brush icon meant to mean paste or clear/delete? - The navigation feels a bit flawed here, with Gossip, I would typically use a calendar widget to click on any day in the calendar month (usually the past week) OR search (which you already have there). Seldom do you need to find a link on the same day that you discovered it (at least I tend to keep my browser/chat windows, etc open most the day). You need to consider that sometimes the search don't be useful, because the URL is from some weird host, so you can only rely on approximately WHEN and WHO/WHERE (e.g. Skype) you got it from. - The time it was received seems superfluous, usually in a day you only really deal with a handful of links, for me typically, this might be something like 0-20 links max. Recording the time is not useful (at least I don't associate when in the day I received that link, just an approximation of *which* day). - The "involving" column looks like it should allow you to toggle people to involve in the search (much like Thunderbird's searching). Is that right? - Is the icon for the person you received the link from? That's what I understood at first. If so, the icon for the links seems nice to have but not too useful in reality. What icon do you use for bookmarks? I would suggest the URL actually was a thumbnail of the website instead, people are more likely to recognise it that way. - I would have some clear separation between the days if you stick to the current design with Yesterday/Today, etc. E.g. a divider or some odd/even discolouring or more space? - A lot of links come from Jabber chatrooms or IRC for me, the list of contacts in the standalone mockup doesn't correlate there too well. People come and go from chatrooms/channels and I generally remember it being mention in the chatroom/channel itself not who in that room gave me the link. Just to finish, I like the mockup but in terms of how I think about finding links I was given from my past experience with Gossip, the dialog is missing a few things to make the experience optimum *for me*. I realise everyone uses a computer differently. Thanks Seif, et al. -- Regards, Martyn Founder and CEO of Lanedo GmbH. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
I created a new wiki page for this. Hylke and Garrett have been helping out on the idea and the design. https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointFive/Features/FindingAndRediscoveringSharedLinks On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 9:13 PM, Federico Mena Quintero wrote: > On Thu, 2012-04-19 at 15:48 +0100, Martyn Russell wrote: > > > Back when I was working on Gossip, I had a "links" tab in the chat > > log/history for exactly this reason. I frequently dig out old links. > > > > The most important things are: > > > > - The link > > - Who sent it > > - What medium > > - When > > I would find this REALLY useful! > > I have a "To read" bookmarks folder in Firefox, which is full of crap > which I haven't bothered to delete after viewing. It's just so much > work to maintain such a list by hand that I don't bother. And yet, > there are interesting things there, which would be much more useful if > they had information of how I had acquired them - who sent them to me, > etc. > > +1 for this feature. > > Federico > > ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
On Thu, 2012-04-19 at 15:48 +0100, Martyn Russell wrote: > Back when I was working on Gossip, I had a "links" tab in the chat > log/history for exactly this reason. I frequently dig out old links. > > The most important things are: > > - The link > - Who sent it > - What medium > - When I would find this REALLY useful! I have a "To read" bookmarks folder in Firefox, which is full of crap which I haven't bothered to delete after viewing. It's just so much work to maintain such a list by hand that I don't bother. And yet, there are interesting things there, which would be much more useful if they had information of how I had acquired them - who sent them to me, etc. +1 for this feature. Federico ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
Ben, Peter, and Bruce share links to interesting articles and videos and sometimes they can't check it, like if Bruce is in a meeting or out and about on his phone, but if his computer also kept track of the link in IM, then he could look at it then. So one thing is that Bruce is unavailable to look/read/watch something, so defering it to later is an option. Another is if Bruce is looking at something and needs to come back to it. E.g: Someone sent Bruce a link to bugzilla and Bruce remembers that he wants to check on it and do stuff w/ the bug, but 2 or 3 days later or the next week he asks himself where "where was that bug again?". Seperating those links into links one has NOT been to yet, but are in messages, are even more interesting. It would be nice to see a recently encountered link view, where the user can see can see a list of links shared with the him. E.g: Sometimes Ben asks Bruce about some link he shared with him. It would be nice if Ben could just find it based on the content of the link and links they shared (sometimes he's not sure it's Bruce, but it's most likely Bruce) Bruce could use that same tool to look at links he shared with Ben: "What was that page of that JavaScript library that does the animation thing that you sent me a few months ago?" That happens a good bit, not all the time, but often enough, since both often share things with each other but one or the other of them forgets. Some of the stuff they share is just for fun other things are useful for work. And it's all mixed in together. Often, the funny and interesting things are videos and then the work stuff has various keywords, like css or javascript or such (and are usually not videos) So a possible view for this feature can be done in Web: Links received can then be automatically put in the queue of Web. And once visited can be taken out of the queue. Another possible view would be a dialog for sent/received links for the Contacts application. To sum it up: it would be appealing to have a readitlater queue without explicit managing (well allowing that, and having those prioritized) as well as having links sent through some direct mean (IM, mail) populate it. One might argue that sharing happens via Social networks but a lot of it happens via IM and E-mails too. The concept applied for both. I have 2 mockups for this idea... The first would blend in nicely with the current designs of "Web" http://i.minus.com/ibfFpg4wMTscf0.png The second would require adding a new view but has the advantage of allowing a more interactive as well as informative (contextual) display of the links http://i.minus.com/ibq81FRZb2iII4.png Cheers Seif ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Allan Day wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Seif Lotfy wrote: > ... > > So a possible view for this feature can be done in Web: Links received can > > then be automatically put in the queue of Web. And once visited can be taken > > out of the queue. > > > > Another possible view would be a dialog for sent/received links for the > > Contacts application. > > > > To sum it up: it would be appealing to have a readitlater queue without > > explicit managing (well allowing that, and having those prioritized) as well > > as having links sent through some direct mean (IM, mail) populate it. > ... > > Something like this could be useful in Contacts, Chat or Mail (I'm not > sure about Web). However, Contacts has a long way to go in terms of > basic functionality and Chat and Mail don't exist yet. I don't think > we're at the point where we can start to think about this feature. Thanks for the input :D My concept to why it belongs in Web is the simple observation that there is a "queue" view planned (hopefully in development soon). I assume that someone sending me a link should be considered as a valid addition to the queue. IMHO splitting this feature to be implemented in several Chats and Mail and Contacts seems out of place. I use Web to browse websites, manage my bookmarks and queue. So it makes sense to lookup websites I should visit from there. The queue can easily indicate where this link came from (Mail/Chat/Social Network). > > I realise that you're frustrated by the lack of Zeitgeist adoption in > GNOME, Seif. As I explained privately, the best way for you to pursue > this is to talk to maintainers who might need it for search results. > The decision to use Zeitgeist is really up to them. I will not deny your claim. But I think this feature should also be considered without Zeitgeist in mind. IMHO its a valid feature that was suggested to me from a designer (so Zeitgeist was not on his mind). So I think we should keep this thread Zeitgeist free and if whoever wants to discuss frustration, there is a thread already up and running :P > > Allan > -- > IRC: aday on irc.gnome.org > Blog: http://afaikblog.wordpress.com/ Seif ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Seif Lotfy wrote: ... > So a possible view for this feature can be done in Web: Links received can > then be automatically put in the queue of Web. And once visited can be taken > out of the queue. > > Another possible view would be a dialog for sent/received links for the > Contacts application. > > To sum it up: it would be appealing to have a readitlater queue without > explicit managing (well allowing that, and having those prioritized) as well > as having links sent through some direct mean (IM, mail) populate it. ... Something like this could be useful in Contacts, Chat or Mail (I'm not sure about Web). However, Contacts has a long way to go in terms of basic functionality and Chat and Mail don't exist yet. I don't think we're at the point where we can start to think about this feature. I realise that you're frustrated by the lack of Zeitgeist adoption in GNOME, Seif. As I explained privately, the best way for you to pursue this is to talk to maintainers who might need it for search results. The decision to use Zeitgeist is really up to them. Allan -- IRC: aday on irc.gnome.org Blog: http://afaikblog.wordpress.com/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
On 19/04/12 15:40, Seif Lotfy wrote: Ben, Peter, and Bruce share links to interesting articles and videos and sometimes they can't check it, like if Bruce is in a meeting or out and about on his phone, but if his computer also kept track of the link in IM, then he could look at it then. Interesting idea. Back when I was working on Gossip, I had a "links" tab in the chat log/history for exactly this reason. I frequently dig out old links. The most important things are: - The link - Who sent it - What medium - When That's at least how I generally try to find links I've been sent. -- Regards, Martyn Founder and CEO of Lanedo GmbH. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Feature Proposal: finding and rediscovering shared links
Ben, Peter, and Bruce share links to interesting articles and videos and sometimes they can't check it, like if Bruce is in a meeting or out and about on his phone, but if his computer also kept track of the link in IM, then he could look at it then. So one thing is that Bruce is unavailable to look/read/watch something, so defering it to later is an option. Another is if Bruce is looking at something and needs to come back to it. E.g: Someone sent Bruce a link to bugzilla and Bruce remembers that he wants to check on it and do stuff w/ the bug, but 2 or 3 days later or the next week he asks himself where "where was that bug again?". Seperating those links into links one has NOT been to yet, but are in messages, are even more interesting. It would be nice to see a recently encountered link view, where the user can see can see a list of links shared with the him. E.g: Sometimes Ben asks Bruce about some link he shared with him. It would be nice if Ben could just find it based on the content of the link and links they shared (sometimes he's not sure it's Bruce, but it's most likely Bruce) Bruce could use that same tool to look at links he shared with Ben: "What was that page of that JavaScript library that does the animation thing that you sent me a few months ago?" That happens a good bit, not all the time, but often enough, since both often share things with each other but one or the other of them forgets. Some of the stuff they share is just for fun other things are useful for work. And it's all mixed in together. Often, the funny and interesting things are videos and then the work stuff has various keywords, like css or javascript or such (and are usually not videos) So a possible view for this feature can be done in Web: Links received can then be automatically put in the queue of Web. And once visited can be taken out of the queue. Another possible view would be a dialog for sent/received links for the Contacts application. To sum it up: it would be appealing to have a readitlater queue without explicit managing (well allowing that, and having those prioritized) as well as having links sent through some direct mean (IM, mail) populate it. One might argue that sharing happens via Social networks but a lot of it happens via IM and E-mails too. The concept applied for both. I have 2 mockups for this idea... The first would blend in nicely with the current designs of "Web" http://i.minus.com/ibfFpg4wMTscf0.png The second would require adding a new view but has the advantage of allowing a more interactive as well as informative (contextual) display of the links http://i.minus.com/ibq81FRZb2iII4.png Cheers Seif ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
