subject:"NLD10 and GNOME"

Re: NLD10 and GNOME

2006-02-13 Thread William Lovaton

Hi to all of you,

El mié, 08-02-2006 a las 18:21 +, Jamie McCracken escribió:
> (btw big thank you for XGL - Im using it now and it rocks way better 
> than OS/X and vista)
> 

Despite this thread being boring there is a lot of very important stuff
to be learned here... but I am much more interested in other things:

Jamie, what video card/drivers are you using, what are the main specs of
your machine (CPU, RAM, Distro, kernel, etc.), what problems did you
have when configuring XGL, Compiz, etc.

What did you liked and/or disliked the most about this new technology?
Is it as responsive for you as seen in those videos? What do you think
that can be improved? (Having in mind that this is still a work in
progress).

I'm more interested in personal opinions of people who have configured
and used this amazing new technology.

A big thank you to all the people who made this posible!.


-William


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Re: Sorry State [Was: NLD10 and GNOME]

2006-02-11 Thread Jono Bacon

Hi all,

My god, I am a little surprised at the discussion that has resulted
from a small comparison I made on my blog. :P I want to be entirely
clear in my opinion here - I was not criticising Novell for these
changes, just making the comparison.

In terms of the 'design behind closed doors', I think its a really
tough one to quantify and draw an opinion from. Sure, in a perfect
world, everything would be developed up front, in public and be
subject to full public discussion and commentary. I think for day to
day GNOME work and development - work that does not mean fundamental
changes to the user interface philosophy and direction of GNOME, this
is pragmatic and workable solution.

For fundamental changes to GNOME infrastructure or interface, the
problem runs a little deeper, and I can identify with the bike shed
analogy.  I think the problem is that to really push forward and make
fundamental innovative decisions, it requires someone to step up and
make a solid stand. The problem of course is that in a large
distributed project such as GNOME, few people want to step up and make
such a stand and risk treading on so many toes.

I think this is becoming an increasing problem for GNOME. As many of
you will know, I used to be heavily involved in the KDE project, and I
defected over to GNOME because I thought that the GNOME community (a)
had a finer understanding and appreciation of usability and (b) the
community had the balls to stand up and make decisions. In recent
months there seems to be some fragmentation in the community and
little spats like this really don't help. As I blogged about last
night (http://www.jonobacon.org/viewcomments.php?id=640), it seems
there is a cyclical wave of community confidence and ability that
moves between KDE and GNOME - and this is most certainly derived from
the social scenario of developing software within a public community,
and the competition and opinions that that infers.

So in summary, I can identify with both sides - I can sympathise with
developing going on behind closed doors to at least get *a* solution
up and running without it turning into a talking shop, but I can also
understand Jeff's concern that such things are not really under the
kind of 'community' banner that we would all like it to be. Its just a
same we have such 'sides'.

The concern I have is that unless some of these problems are resolved,
Topaz is only going to be a pipe dream - a pipe dream that no-one
wants to stand up and kick off due to fear that anyone standing up and
making a decision will involve a community backlash. With fundmental
changes like ones discussed in Topaz, we really need a decision to be
made at some point. I would be happy to stand up and propose
JonoGNOME, but I suspect you would all laugh at me and poke me with a
stick. :P

Cheers,

  Jono
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Re: Sorry State [Was: NLD10 and GNOME]

2006-02-11 Thread Jeff Waugh



> > (A similar set of issues were expressed more eloquently in my GUADEC talk,
> > if you want to watch that video.)
>
> do you have a link?

http://stream.fluendo.com/archive/6uadec/Jeff_Waugh_-_Project_Topaz.ogg

- Jeff

-- 
FOSDEM 2006: Brussels, Belgiumhttp://www.fosdem.org/2006
 
 "Old timers will tell you what a pain unstable was during the new
testament transition." - Jon Corbet on Debian's KJV packages
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Re: Sorry State [Was: NLD10 and GNOME]

2006-02-11 Thread Lex Hider

On Thu, 2006-02-09 at 02:54 +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> 
> 
> > What a big jerkbird! So lazy! So community-tearing! Definitely the work of
> > an evil, evil noncontributor.
> 
> Anna, as I mentioned in another email, this frustration is about a broader
> problem we have in our community than the particular acts of contributing
> organisations or individuals. Definitely a large portion of the frustration
> you read in my email was aimed at *myself*, as I have also contributed to
> this 'sorry state' of affairs.
> 
> It was not a good email. It was too emotive in precisely the wrong context.
> 
> (A similar set of issues were expressed more eloquently in my GUADEC talk,
> if you want to watch that video.)
> 
do you have a link?

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Re: Sorry State [Was: NLD10 and GNOME]

2006-02-09 Thread Anna Marie Dirks

Good morning, everyone.

Goodness sakes. This thread has so much anger in it! I can't help but think that there is a misunderstanding or two that needs to be cleared up.

The photos that Jono found are from a website that the team I manage uses to house our daydreams, our ideas, our rants -- I have the uncomfortable feeling that some people here are confusing a set of mockups that we never intended to develop further for actual product plans. As the design lead for NLD 10, I can say for sure that we are NOT implementing almost any of the stuff shown in those mockups.

Do we really need to email all the gnome lists every time someone on my team has a new daydream? Are you guys not sufficiently sick of all the "The World According to Me" emails that our mailing lists attract? This is ridiculous.

El mié, 08-02-2006 a las 12:16 +1100, Jeff Waugh escribió:

This is a very sorry state of affairs for GNOME. But it is not only Novell
and its employees who have adopted this commons-sapping, community-tearing,
morally and intellectually lazy approach to open design and development in
GNOME.

Uh. Ok. You know, I went to a ton of trouble to put those 200 usability videos up on the web at http://www.betterdesktop.org . After I put them up there, I reviewed the site with people at the Boston summit, to see what else they wanted me to do. They said, "Turn it into a wiki so we can comment!" - so I did. What a big jerkbird! So lazy! So community-tearing! Definitely the work of an evil, evil noncontributor.

Call me pissed ('cause I am), but hearing about how destructive I am makes me feel like perhaps my attempts to involve the Gnome community in all the testing I've been doing are moot. Why bother if nothing will ever be good enough, or appreciated? Why bother if lists devolve into name calling over a few daydreamy screenshots?

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