Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
On Thu, 2011-03-17 at 13:33 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: > Hi Allan, > > Allan Day wrote: > > Note: I don't think we should be 'recommending' such a tool as a part of > > the GNOME 3 experience. GNOME 3 is great as is, and people shouldn't > > need to change it. If they desperately want to tweak, they can, of > > course; and John has provided an easy way to do it (go John!) > > This, of course, depends on your definition of tweaking. If you want to > change the theme, background, speaker volume or the printer you'd like > to print to by default, that's not tweaking, that's configuration. Changing the theme is tweaking, changing the colours of it or changing the background is personalisation, changing the speaker volume is a setting (if it can even be called that), changing the default printer is definitely a setting. We support personalisation, and settings, but not tweaking. Also see discussions about the content of the Android and iOS app stores (where best-sellers on Android are tweak tools, vs. real applications that do thins on iOS, we definitely want to follow the latter category, but you can still have tweak tools without jailbreaking GNOME :) ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 01:19 +1300, John Stowers wrote: > > Let me know when you have a bugzilla component. There's a number of > > control-center bugs that should be coming your way. > > Done. > > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=gnome-tweak-tool > > John (nervously awaiting bug onslaught...) Onslaught, I don't know, but there's 8 bugs in there now. Have fun! ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
Hi Allan, Allan Day wrote: > Note: I don't think we should be 'recommending' such a tool as a part of > the GNOME 3 experience. GNOME 3 is great as is, and people shouldn't > need to change it. If they desperately want to tweak, they can, of > course; and John has provided an easy way to do it (go John!) This, of course, depends on your definition of tweaking. If you want to change the theme, background, speaker volume or the printer you'd like to print to by default, that's not tweaking, that's configuration. Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member dne...@gnome.org ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
On 03/17/2011 12:28 PM, Juanjo Marin wrote: El jue, 17-03-2011 a las 10:55 +, Allan Day escribió: Note: I don't think we should be 'recommending' such a tool as a part of the GNOME 3 experience. GNOME 3 is great as is, and people shouldn't need to change it. If they desperately want to tweak, they can, of course; and John has provided an easy way to do it (go John!) I agree, but IMHO, it is common for users to change the theme, so, even without promoting it, a lot of users will be using this tweaking tool if it is the only way for do it. Sorry for bringing up analogies here, but I share an office with a company who specialize in user support for Linux and in the same building is also (what I would call) a geek-café [1] and one thing that really surprised me over time was the massive number of users who never changes these settings. This is not really any data that I would dare my life on, but I still found it really interesting. That said, we are too late for 3.0 and need get that release out of the door, and there is also a mailing list specific for the control center where I think it would be best to hold this discussion, as this is a subject that can become quite noisy _really fast_. The list is gnomecc-list [2]. 1. http://www.gnutiken.se/ 2. http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnomecc-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
> Let me know when you have a bugzilla component. There's a number of > control-center bugs that should be coming your way. Done. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=gnome-tweak-tool John (nervously awaiting bug onslaught...) ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
On Thu, 2011-03-17 at 12:28 +0100, Juanjo Marin wrote: > El jue, 17-03-2011 a las 10:55 +, Allan Day escribió: > > On Thu, 2011-03-17 at 11:15 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Jasper St. Pierre wrote: > > > > The story I've heard is that we haven't supported themes because we > > > > make no guarantees about CSS class stability: CSS support was a nifty > > > > thing that was added so that we could put up a couple actors and mold > > > > them like clay into our mockups very quickly and easily. With the > > > > gnome 3 release, I doubt we'll add have a theme switcher out of the > > > > box. > > > > > > > > We've accepted patches to add API to make it easier for people making > > > > third-party theme switchers: SardemFF7 has one, a random guy from > > > > deviantart (not half-left) has another, and there's also > > > > gnome-plumbing and gnome-tweak-tool. > > > > > > Thanks for the info, Jasper! Is there a blessed/recommended tweak tool > > > that people should be suggesting when we get asked these questions? > > > > gnome-plumbing never existed. I would point people to John's > > gnome-tweak-tool. > > > > Note: I don't think we should be 'recommending' such a tool as a part of > > the GNOME 3 experience. GNOME 3 is great as is, and people shouldn't > > need to change it. If they desperately want to tweak, they can, of > > course; and John has provided an easy way to do it (go John!) > > I agree, but IMHO, it is common for users to change the theme, so, even > without promoting it, a lot of users will be using this tweaking tool if > it is the only way for do it. > > For me tweaking is changing parameters that it is tought that users > shouldn't change, but I find strange the only way to change the > theme/fonts is through tweaking :) Changing either theme or font would detract from our visual identity. And we also cannot offer users to switch to different themes and expect all those themes to be of the high quality one would expect from the one shipped in GNOME 3. My guess is that if you're willing to possibly break the appearance of a number of applications, we want to make it clear that you shouldn't start filing bugs against whichever product offered you that ability. There are however some missing parts to the customisation that we might want to revisit, such allowing users to tweak colours, but this would need to be designed, and thought out. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
El jue, 17-03-2011 a las 10:55 +, Allan Day escribió: > On Thu, 2011-03-17 at 11:15 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Jasper St. Pierre wrote: > > > The story I've heard is that we haven't supported themes because we > > > make no guarantees about CSS class stability: CSS support was a nifty > > > thing that was added so that we could put up a couple actors and mold > > > them like clay into our mockups very quickly and easily. With the > > > gnome 3 release, I doubt we'll add have a theme switcher out of the > > > box. > > > > > > We've accepted patches to add API to make it easier for people making > > > third-party theme switchers: SardemFF7 has one, a random guy from > > > deviantart (not half-left) has another, and there's also > > > gnome-plumbing and gnome-tweak-tool. > > > > Thanks for the info, Jasper! Is there a blessed/recommended tweak tool > > that people should be suggesting when we get asked these questions? > > gnome-plumbing never existed. I would point people to John's > gnome-tweak-tool. > > Note: I don't think we should be 'recommending' such a tool as a part of > the GNOME 3 experience. GNOME 3 is great as is, and people shouldn't > need to change it. If they desperately want to tweak, they can, of > course; and John has provided an easy way to do it (go John!) I agree, but IMHO, it is common for users to change the theme, so, even without promoting it, a lot of users will be using this tweaking tool if it is the only way for do it. For me tweaking is changing parameters that it is tought that users shouldn't change, but I find strange the only way to change the theme/fonts is through tweaking :) Cheers, -- Juanjo Marin ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
On Thu, 2011-03-17 at 23:45 +1300, John Stowers wrote: > > > > There'll be a tool for that, although that is an add-on tool (ie, not > > part of the control center). Since I've been lagging on this, John > > Stowers stepped up and moved much faster than I did (he also chose > > python while I was playing with js ;-)): > > https://github.com/nzjrs/gnome-tweak-tool > > > > (kudos to John!) > > > > This needs some love, and we'll import that in git.gnome.org, I assume. > > But yeah, that's how we will deal with this :-) > > I wanted to finish of a few more things, but this has been imported onto > the GNOME git now, and lives here; > > http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-tweak-tool/ > http://imgur.com/a/NmL44#By22E (screenshots) > > It supports most of the contentious issues I saw people talking about, > and some extra niceties like gtk theme switching (only shows themes that > have gtk+-2 and gtk+-3 support), and shell theme switching + > installation (needs the usertheme extension from [1]) > > Adding 'tweaks' for new things is pretty easy, see tweaks/tweak_*.py for > examples. > > Feedback appreciated. Let me know when you have a bugzilla component. There's a number of control-center bugs that should be coming your way. Cheers ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
On Thu, 2011-03-17 at 11:15 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: > Hi, > > Jasper St. Pierre wrote: > > The story I've heard is that we haven't supported themes because we > > make no guarantees about CSS class stability: CSS support was a nifty > > thing that was added so that we could put up a couple actors and mold > > them like clay into our mockups very quickly and easily. With the > > gnome 3 release, I doubt we'll add have a theme switcher out of the > > box. > > > > We've accepted patches to add API to make it easier for people making > > third-party theme switchers: SardemFF7 has one, a random guy from > > deviantart (not half-left) has another, and there's also > > gnome-plumbing and gnome-tweak-tool. > > Thanks for the info, Jasper! Is there a blessed/recommended tweak tool > that people should be suggesting when we get asked these questions? gnome-plumbing never existed. I would point people to John's gnome-tweak-tool. Note: I don't think we should be 'recommending' such a tool as a part of the GNOME 3 experience. GNOME 3 is great as is, and people shouldn't need to change it. If they desperately want to tweak, they can, of course; and John has provided an easy way to do it (go John!) Allan -- Blog: http://afaikblog.wordpress.com/ IRC: aday on irc.gnome.org ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
> > There'll be a tool for that, although that is an add-on tool (ie, not > part of the control center). Since I've been lagging on this, John > Stowers stepped up and moved much faster than I did (he also chose > python while I was playing with js ;-)): > https://github.com/nzjrs/gnome-tweak-tool > > (kudos to John!) > > This needs some love, and we'll import that in git.gnome.org, I assume. > But yeah, that's how we will deal with this :-) I wanted to finish of a few more things, but this has been imported onto the GNOME git now, and lives here; http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-tweak-tool/ http://imgur.com/a/NmL44#By22E (screenshots) It supports most of the contentious issues I saw people talking about, and some extra niceties like gtk theme switching (only shows themes that have gtk+-2 and gtk+-3 support), and shell theme switching + installation (needs the usertheme extension from [1]) Adding 'tweaks' for new things is pretty easy, see tweaks/tweak_*.py for examples. Feedback appreciated. Oh, and the new pygobject (+ gobject-introspection) is seven types of awesome. John [1] http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell-extensions ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
Hi, Jasper St. Pierre wrote: > The story I've heard is that we haven't supported themes because we > make no guarantees about CSS class stability: CSS support was a nifty > thing that was added so that we could put up a couple actors and mold > them like clay into our mockups very quickly and easily. With the > gnome 3 release, I doubt we'll add have a theme switcher out of the > box. > > We've accepted patches to add API to make it easier for people making > third-party theme switchers: SardemFF7 has one, a random guy from > deviantart (not half-left) has another, and there's also > gnome-plumbing and gnome-tweak-tool. Thanks for the info, Jasper! Is there a blessed/recommended tweak tool that people should be suggesting when we get asked these questions? Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member dne...@gnome.org ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
Le mercredi 16 mars 2011, à 19:31 -0700, Adam Dingle a écrit : > In the current GNOME 3 build the System Settings application doesn't seem to > give me any way to change my fonts or theme. This seems like a significant > regression from the previous Control Center, which offered the Appearance > applet for this purpose. Was theme/font configuration removed > intentionally? Or is it planned, but there simply hasn't been time to > implement this in System Settings yet? Will there be any way a user can > configure these through the GUI in GNOME 3.0? There'll be a tool for that, although that is an add-on tool (ie, not part of the control center). Since I've been lagging on this, John Stowers stepped up and moved much faster than I did (he also chose python while I was playing with js ;-)): https://github.com/nzjrs/gnome-tweak-tool (kudos to John!) This needs some love, and we'll import that in git.gnome.org, I assume. But yeah, that's how we will deal with this :-) Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
The story I've heard is that we haven't supported themes because we make no guarantees about CSS class stability: CSS support was a nifty thing that was added so that we could put up a couple actors and mold them like clay into our mockups very quickly and easily. With the gnome 3 release, I doubt we'll add have a theme switcher out of the box. We've accepted patches to add API to make it easier for people making third-party theme switchers: SardemFF7 has one, a random guy from deviantart (not half-left) has another, and there's also gnome-plumbing and gnome-tweak-tool. On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Dave Neary wrote: > Hi, > > Jason D. Clinton wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 21:31, Adam Dingle wrote: >>> In the current GNOME 3 build the System Settings application doesn't seem to >>> give me any way to change my fonts or theme. >> >> Fonts > A11y capplet. >> There are no other GTK+3 themes available at the moment. > > That's hardly reassuring, is it? It doesn't answer the question of > whether this is a short-term "we haven't done it yet" or a longer-term > "we don't plan to support themes". > > Presumably (although I don't know), theme support is forthcoming > shortly, and just hasn't been completed yet? I know that supporting > different fonts in the interface via a control center module doesn't > exist right now, but perhaps someone in the know (Allan? Jon?) could say > whether this is planned soon, or is a design decision. > > Cheers, > Dave. > > -- > Dave Neary > GNOME Foundation member > dne...@gnome.org > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
Hi, Jason D. Clinton wrote: > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 21:31, Adam Dingle wrote: >> In the current GNOME 3 build the System Settings application doesn't seem to >> give me any way to change my fonts or theme. > > Fonts > A11y capplet. > There are no other GTK+3 themes available at the moment. That's hardly reassuring, is it? It doesn't answer the question of whether this is a short-term "we haven't done it yet" or a longer-term "we don't plan to support themes". Presumably (although I don't know), theme support is forthcoming shortly, and just hasn't been completed yet? I know that supporting different fonts in the interface via a control center module doesn't exist right now, but perhaps someone in the know (Allan? Jon?) could say whether this is planned soon, or is a design decision. Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member dne...@gnome.org ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 21:31, Adam Dingle wrote: > In the current GNOME 3 build the System Settings application doesn't seem to > give me any way to change my fonts or theme. Fonts > A11y capplet. There are no other GTK+3 themes available at the moment. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
no way to change theme or fonts in System Settings?
In the current GNOME 3 build the System Settings application doesn't seem to give me any way to change my fonts or theme. This seems like a significant regression from the previous Control Center, which offered the Appearance applet for this purpose. Was theme/font configuration removed intentionally? Or is it planned, but there simply hasn't been time to implement this in System Settings yet? Will there be any way a user can configure these through the GUI in GNOME 3.0? adam ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
