Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort
Sure, I'll do my best to attend. -- Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology! Nux! www.nux.ro - Original Message - From: sebgoa run...@gmail.com To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org, Paul Angus paul.an...@shapeblue.com, Nux! n...@li.nux.ro Sent: Thursday, 2 April, 2015 07:54:13 Subject: Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort All, and specially Paul and Nux, Any chance you can join this meeting, and see what we need to do on the CentOS front ? On Apr 1, 2015, at 5:03 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 03/27/2015 04:41 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote: On Mar 26, 2015, at 4:28 PM, Rich Bowenrbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: A while back I mentioned to some folks (I think it was this list, but it may have been a subset) that the CentOS community is working on a Cloud SIG (Special Interest Group) effort. You can read a little about it athttp://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/Cloud The idea is to ensure that cloud infrastructure software, like CloudStack, OpenStack, Open Nebula, and Eucalyptus, works solidly on CentOS, has all of the prerequisite packages available, gets CI on the CentOS platform, and so on. At the moment, this is*only* OpenStack, with the other projects unrepresented. If you are interested in adoption of CloudStack on CentOS (and, by side effect, on Red Hat Enterprise Linux), we'd love to have your participation in this effort. Hi Rich, thanks for the ping again. We have been in touch with KB (Nux! and I mostly) and submitted our scripts for building a cloudstack centOS templates upstream. It works and was merged at some point, but it got pulled back because we stick some scripts in there. Bottom line is that I feel we need to work further upstream in cloud-init to improve cloudstack support there, once that’s done, we can come back to the CentOS builds for cloudstack. fwiw, our install base is probably ~70% centOS and we already have centOS7 support. In the OpenStack world, we see CentOS as a great way to get the message out about OpenStack. Wearing my ASF hat, I'd really like to see the same vehicle be used to get the word out about CloudStack. CentOS goes to a lot of events, and many of them are ones that CloudStack isn't at. I'd love to see the Cloud SIG be a way to get the word about CloudStack into audiences that typically only ever hear about OpenStack. (Yes, I have split loyalties here, and that's fine.) Anyways, a reminder that we will be having this meeting on #centos-devel at 15:00 UTC *tomorrow*, and it would be awesome to at least have some representation from the CloudStack community there to ask the right questions and see what we can do, on the CentOS side, to fix these cloud-init problems and bring CloudStack some more of the CentOS spotlight. Or even just show up so that folks can meet you and we can figure out if there's anything we can do to help one another. --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort
BTW, if anyone has some concrete ideas/questions re Cloudstack and CentOS, please come forth so we can mention them during the meeting. Lucian -- Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology! Nux! www.nux.ro - Original Message - From: Nux! n...@li.nux.ro To: sebgoa run...@gmail.com Cc: dev@cloudstack.apache.org, Paul Angus paul.an...@shapeblue.com Sent: Thursday, 2 April, 2015 09:08:57 Subject: Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort Sure, I'll do my best to attend. -- Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology! Nux! www.nux.ro - Original Message - From: sebgoa run...@gmail.com To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org, Paul Angus paul.an...@shapeblue.com, Nux! n...@li.nux.ro Sent: Thursday, 2 April, 2015 07:54:13 Subject: Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort All, and specially Paul and Nux, Any chance you can join this meeting, and see what we need to do on the CentOS front ? On Apr 1, 2015, at 5:03 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 03/27/2015 04:41 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote: On Mar 26, 2015, at 4:28 PM, Rich Bowenrbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: A while back I mentioned to some folks (I think it was this list, but it may have been a subset) that the CentOS community is working on a Cloud SIG (Special Interest Group) effort. You can read a little about it athttp://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/Cloud The idea is to ensure that cloud infrastructure software, like CloudStack, OpenStack, Open Nebula, and Eucalyptus, works solidly on CentOS, has all of the prerequisite packages available, gets CI on the CentOS platform, and so on. At the moment, this is*only* OpenStack, with the other projects unrepresented. If you are interested in adoption of CloudStack on CentOS (and, by side effect, on Red Hat Enterprise Linux), we'd love to have your participation in this effort. Hi Rich, thanks for the ping again. We have been in touch with KB (Nux! and I mostly) and submitted our scripts for building a cloudstack centOS templates upstream. It works and was merged at some point, but it got pulled back because we stick some scripts in there. Bottom line is that I feel we need to work further upstream in cloud-init to improve cloudstack support there, once that’s done, we can come back to the CentOS builds for cloudstack. fwiw, our install base is probably ~70% centOS and we already have centOS7 support. In the OpenStack world, we see CentOS as a great way to get the message out about OpenStack. Wearing my ASF hat, I'd really like to see the same vehicle be used to get the word out about CloudStack. CentOS goes to a lot of events, and many of them are ones that CloudStack isn't at. I'd love to see the Cloud SIG be a way to get the word about CloudStack into audiences that typically only ever hear about OpenStack. (Yes, I have split loyalties here, and that's fine.) Anyways, a reminder that we will be having this meeting on #centos-devel at 15:00 UTC *tomorrow*, and it would be awesome to at least have some representation from the CloudStack community there to ask the right questions and see what we can do, on the CentOS side, to fix these cloud-init problems and bring CloudStack some more of the CentOS spotlight. Or even just show up so that folks can meet you and we can figure out if there's anything we can do to help one another. --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort
All, and specially Paul and Nux, Any chance you can join this meeting, and see what we need to do on the CentOS front ? On Apr 1, 2015, at 5:03 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 03/27/2015 04:41 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote: On Mar 26, 2015, at 4:28 PM, Rich Bowenrbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: A while back I mentioned to some folks (I think it was this list, but it may have been a subset) that the CentOS community is working on a Cloud SIG (Special Interest Group) effort. You can read a little about it athttp://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/Cloud The idea is to ensure that cloud infrastructure software, like CloudStack, OpenStack, Open Nebula, and Eucalyptus, works solidly on CentOS, has all of the prerequisite packages available, gets CI on the CentOS platform, and so on. At the moment, this is*only* OpenStack, with the other projects unrepresented. If you are interested in adoption of CloudStack on CentOS (and, by side effect, on Red Hat Enterprise Linux), we'd love to have your participation in this effort. Hi Rich, thanks for the ping again. We have been in touch with KB (Nux! and I mostly) and submitted our scripts for building a cloudstack centOS templates upstream. It works and was merged at some point, but it got pulled back because we stick some scripts in there. Bottom line is that I feel we need to work further upstream in cloud-init to improve cloudstack support there, once that’s done, we can come back to the CentOS builds for cloudstack. fwiw, our install base is probably ~70% centOS and we already have centOS7 support. In the OpenStack world, we see CentOS as a great way to get the message out about OpenStack. Wearing my ASF hat, I'd really like to see the same vehicle be used to get the word out about CloudStack. CentOS goes to a lot of events, and many of them are ones that CloudStack isn't at. I'd love to see the Cloud SIG be a way to get the word about CloudStack into audiences that typically only ever hear about OpenStack. (Yes, I have split loyalties here, and that's fine.) Anyways, a reminder that we will be having this meeting on #centos-devel at 15:00 UTC *tomorrow*, and it would be awesome to at least have some representation from the CloudStack community there to ask the right questions and see what we can do, on the CentOS side, to fix these cloud-init problems and bring CloudStack some more of the CentOS spotlight. Or even just show up so that folks can meet you and we can figure out if there's anything we can do to help one another. --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort
I'll try to attend too. Regards Paul Angus Cloud Architect ShapeBlue Ltd M: 07711418784 | T: @CloudyAngus paul.an...@shapeblue.com Original message From: Nux! Date:02/04/2015 10:09 (GMT+01:00) To: sebgoa Cc: dev@cloudstack.apache.org,Paul Angus Subject: Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort Sure, I'll do my best to attend. -- Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology! Nux! www.nux.ro - Original Message - From: sebgoa run...@gmail.com To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org, Paul Angus paul.an...@shapeblue.com, Nux! n...@li.nux.ro Sent: Thursday, 2 April, 2015 07:54:13 Subject: Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort All, and specially Paul and Nux, Any chance you can join this meeting, and see what we need to do on the CentOS front ? On Apr 1, 2015, at 5:03 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 03/27/2015 04:41 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote: On Mar 26, 2015, at 4:28 PM, Rich Bowenrbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: A while back I mentioned to some folks (I think it was this list, but it may have been a subset) that the CentOS community is working on a Cloud SIG (Special Interest Group) effort. You can read a little about it athttp://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/Cloud The idea is to ensure that cloud infrastructure software, like CloudStack, OpenStack, Open Nebula, and Eucalyptus, works solidly on CentOS, has all of the prerequisite packages available, gets CI on the CentOS platform, and so on. At the moment, this is*only* OpenStack, with the other projects unrepresented. If you are interested in adoption of CloudStack on CentOS (and, by side effect, on Red Hat Enterprise Linux), we'd love to have your participation in this effort. Hi Rich, thanks for the ping again. We have been in touch with KB (Nux! and I mostly) and submitted our scripts for building a cloudstack centOS templates upstream. It works and was merged at some point, but it got pulled back because we stick some scripts in there. Bottom line is that I feel we need to work further upstream in cloud-init to improve cloudstack support there, once that’s done, we can come back to the CentOS builds for cloudstack. fwiw, our install base is probably ~70% centOS and we already have centOS7 support. In the OpenStack world, we see CentOS as a great way to get the message out about OpenStack. Wearing my ASF hat, I'd really like to see the same vehicle be used to get the word out about CloudStack. CentOS goes to a lot of events, and many of them are ones that CloudStack isn't at. I'd love to see the Cloud SIG be a way to get the word about CloudStack into audiences that typically only ever hear about OpenStack. (Yes, I have split loyalties here, and that's fine.) Anyways, a reminder that we will be having this meeting on #centos-devel at 15:00 UTC *tomorrow*, and it would be awesome to at least have some representation from the CloudStack community there to ask the right questions and see what we can do, on the CentOS side, to fix these cloud-init problems and bring CloudStack some more of the CentOS spotlight. Or even just show up so that folks can meet you and we can figure out if there's anything we can do to help one another. --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range of CloudStack related services IaaS Cloud Design Buildhttp://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build// CSForge – rapid IaaS deployment frameworkhttp://shapeblue.com/csforge/ CloudStack Consultinghttp://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/ CloudStack Software Engineeringhttp://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/ CloudStack Infrastructure Supporthttp://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/ CloudStack Bootcamp Training Courseshttp://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/ This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or related companies. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone. Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in error. Shape Blue Ltd is a company incorporated in England Wales. ShapeBlue Services India LLP is a company incorporated in India and is operated under license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil Consultoria Ltda is a company incorporated in Brasil and is operated under license from Shape Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company registered by The Republic of South Africa and is traded under license from Shape Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue is a registered trademark.
Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort
Hi Adrian Pretty sure that if getting the management server up and running was as simple as... 1. Install CentOS 2. yum install cloudstack 3. setup-cloudstack-all-in-one.sh ...we'd see many more people at least trying it out. Some might see the current installation options as easy enough but if someone could get it up and running without even looking at the docs, I reckon they'd be more likely to do it and then consult the docs when they got stuck. This reminds me of https://github.com/thehyperadvisor/cldstk-deploy , though there could certainly more/better ideas on how to ease things up, at least for a PoC. I'm sure Sebastien will quickly propose docker. :) If the packages could be put into the centos-extras repo that would do the trick. I'm sure there's more to it than my simplistic idea but could we discuss the viability of this? I think this will be difficult to achieve, though I am short on proper details, I believe the way we (in cloudstack) ship some stuff - particularly java stuff - is not exactly kosher from a RedHat packaging point of view. They have their own routine, practices and so on. Furthermore, let's say we get that right, keeping it up to date in their repo will also be quite an effort. I think the idea is good and in an ideal world it's how we'd do it, but right now with the release cadence of Cloudstack and our few resources, it's something that - simply - it's not worth doing. We could do with a one-stop script that does everything for the user including installing the mysql/mariadb server aspect even setting up NFS shares on the same box (leaving the other more granular setup scripts for 'advanced' users. If centos-extras is not feasible, how about EPEL? Might even get some Fedora people interested as well (if it works on Fedora). See the ansible link I gave above. Re EPEL and Fedora, they're having trouble maintaining their own stuff, i.e. they removed openstack from there and are maintaining separate repositories at https://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/openstack/ Pretty sure that this particular CentOS SIG is about running the management/infrastructure side of things as opposed to running centos as a guest in case anyone is unsure. Although clearly related, earlier comments about cloud-init are surely more related to another CentOS SIG (Cloud Instance) aren't they? Yep, CentOS Cloud Instance SIG is a different project meant to get CentOS running on all major cloud platforms. This one is somehow successful in that their official image will boot in Cloudstack and get a ssh key if one is set, even execute user data, but there are many bugs and other problems. Far from ideal; it would be great if someone with python skills would take up polishing the cloud-init Cloudstack source a bit, perhaps as part of GSoC. My stance on all this is, bother less with packaging or inclusion in CentOS official repos and focus more on getting it to work as smoothly as possible. Also, attending the CentOS events with presentations on Cloudstack is a great idea to raise some awareness. /imho Lucian
RE: CentOS Cloud SIG effort
Pretty sure that if getting the management server up and running was as simple as... 1. Install CentOS 2. yum install cloudstack 3. setup-cloudstack-all-in-one.sh ...we'd see many more people at least trying it out. Some might see the current installation options as easy enough but if someone could get it up and running without even looking at the docs, I reckon they'd be more likely to do it and then consult the docs when they got stuck. If the packages could be put into the centos-extras repo that would do the trick. I'm sure there's more to it than my simplistic idea but could we discuss the viability of this? We could do with a one-stop script that does everything for the user including installing the mysql/mariadb server aspect even setting up NFS shares on the same box (leaving the other more granular setup scripts for 'advanced' users. If centos-extras is not feasible, how about EPEL? Might even get some Fedora people interested as well (if it works on Fedora). Pretty sure that this particular CentOS SIG is about running the management/infrastructure side of things as opposed to running centos as a guest in case anyone is unsure. Although clearly related, earlier comments about cloud-init are surely more related to another CentOS SIG (Cloud Instance) aren't they? Adrian -Original Message- From: Nux! [mailto:n...@li.nux.ro] Sent: 02 April 2015 09:20 To: sebgoa Cc: dev@cloudstack.apache.org; Paul Angus Subject: Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort BTW, if anyone has some concrete ideas/questions re Cloudstack and CentOS, please come forth so we can mention them during the meeting. Lucian -- Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology! Nux! www.nux.ro - Original Message - From: Nux! n...@li.nux.ro To: sebgoa run...@gmail.com Cc: dev@cloudstack.apache.org, Paul Angus paul.an...@shapeblue.com Sent: Thursday, 2 April, 2015 09:08:57 Subject: Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort Sure, I'll do my best to attend. -- Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology! Nux! www.nux.ro - Original Message - From: sebgoa run...@gmail.com To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org, Paul Angus paul.an...@shapeblue.com, Nux! n...@li.nux.ro Sent: Thursday, 2 April, 2015 07:54:13 Subject: Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort All, and specially Paul and Nux, Any chance you can join this meeting, and see what we need to do on the CentOS front ? On Apr 1, 2015, at 5:03 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 03/27/2015 04:41 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote: On Mar 26, 2015, at 4:28 PM, Rich Bowenrbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: A while back I mentioned to some folks (I think it was this list, but it may have been a subset) that the CentOS community is working on a Cloud SIG (Special Interest Group) effort. You can read a little about it athttp://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/Cloud The idea is to ensure that cloud infrastructure software, like CloudStack, OpenStack, Open Nebula, and Eucalyptus, works solidly on CentOS, has all of the prerequisite packages available, gets CI on the CentOS platform, and so on. At the moment, this is*only* OpenStack, with the other projects unrepresented. If you are interested in adoption of CloudStack on CentOS (and, by side effect, on Red Hat Enterprise Linux), we'd love to have your participation in this effort. Hi Rich, thanks for the ping again. We have been in touch with KB (Nux! and I mostly) and submitted our scripts for building a cloudstack centOS templates upstream. It works and was merged at some point, but it got pulled back because we stick some scripts in there. Bottom line is that I feel we need to work further upstream in cloud-init to improve cloudstack support there, once that’s done, we can come back to the CentOS builds for cloudstack. fwiw, our install base is probably ~70% centOS and we already have centOS7 support. In the OpenStack world, we see CentOS as a great way to get the message out about OpenStack. Wearing my ASF hat, I'd really like to see the same vehicle be used to get the word out about CloudStack. CentOS goes to a lot of events, and many of them are ones that CloudStack isn't at. I'd love to see the Cloud SIG be a way to get the word about CloudStack into audiences that typically only ever hear about OpenStack. (Yes, I have split loyalties here, and that's fine.) Anyways, a reminder that we will be having this meeting on #centos-devel at 15:00 UTC *tomorrow*, and it would be awesome to at least have some representation from the CloudStack community there to ask the right questions and see what we can do, on the CentOS side, to fix these cloud-init problems and bring CloudStack some more of the CentOS spotlight. Or even just show up so that folks can meet you and we can figure out if there's anything we can do to help one another. --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort
On Apr 2, 2015, at 3:46 PM, Adrian Lewis adr...@alsiconsulting.co.uk wrote: Hi Lucian, This is still a very devops/developer centric approach which in my opinion is rife within the ACS community (understandably) and which is inadvertently hostile/elitist to many who might otherwise be interested. I think that many regular sys admins who perhaps don't want to get involved with docker, github, compiling stuff, running 3rd party provisioning scripts etc and just want to run up a quick POC would end up being alienated by this - they don’t have the time to learn these sorts of technologies if they would never use them otherwise. Obviously to most of the audience in this list that's not the case but I really think that there are a lot of potential (albeit likely small) deployments out there where the admins run a mile if getting something to work involves the word 'git' or even 'mailing-list’. So technically you don’t need git or mailing list to get this done. but you do need to read the docs. I don’t want to find excuses here, but openstack is not easier to try. Installing the mgt server and the agent is not the tough part. To me the tough part is to understand your datacenter and how you are gong to configure your network. That part is tough to simplify. so bottom line I agree with you, and would love to see some patches to get this done. These people just go out and buy vCloud Director instead or do without. Citrix would probably get more customers for CloudPlatform as well if it were very simple to try out ACS ACS needs hobbyists and sys admins in SMBs as well in my opinion, not just devops people in large corporations or service providers. More people playing with it and in turn talking/blogging about it and raising its profile will help immensely. These people need to be convinced that #Cloudstackworks. Get packages into Debian/Ubuntu and there's an even greater audience. Grab the long tail and the rest of the beast comes with it. We have made some progress there with a “re-factoring” of our debian packages. But there is still work to be done Just my opinion btw - perhaps I'm too old-fashioned and need to learn more. Adrian -Original Message- From: Nux! [mailto:n...@li.nux.ro] Sent: 02 April 2015 13:01 To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org Cc: sebgoa; Paul Angus Subject: Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort Hi Adrian Pretty sure that if getting the management server up and running was as simple as... 1. Install CentOS 2. yum install cloudstack 3. setup-cloudstack-all-in-one.sh ...we'd see many more people at least trying it out. Some might see the current installation options as easy enough but if someone could get it up and running without even looking at the docs, I reckon they'd be more likely to do it and then consult the docs when they got stuck. This reminds me of https://github.com/thehyperadvisor/cldstk-deploy , though there could certainly more/better ideas on how to ease things up, at least for a PoC. I'm sure Sebastien will quickly propose docker. :) If the packages could be put into the centos-extras repo that would do the trick. I'm sure there's more to it than my simplistic idea but could we discuss the viability of this? I think this will be difficult to achieve, though I am short on proper details, I believe the way we (in cloudstack) ship some stuff - particularly java stuff - is not exactly kosher from a RedHat packaging point of view. They have their own routine, practices and so on. Furthermore, let's say we get that right, keeping it up to date in their repo will also be quite an effort. I think the idea is good and in an ideal world it's how we'd do it, but right now with the release cadence of Cloudstack and our few resources, it's something that - simply - it's not worth doing. We could do with a one-stop script that does everything for the user including installing the mysql/mariadb server aspect even setting up NFS shares on the same box (leaving the other more granular setup scripts for 'advanced' users. If centos-extras is not feasible, how about EPEL? Might even get some Fedora people interested as well (if it works on Fedora). See the ansible link I gave above. Re EPEL and Fedora, they're having trouble maintaining their own stuff, i.e. they removed openstack from there and are maintaining separate repositories at https://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/openstack/ Pretty sure that this particular CentOS SIG is about running the management/infrastructure side of things as opposed to running centos as a guest in case anyone is unsure. Although clearly related, earlier comments about cloud-init are surely more related to another CentOS SIG (Cloud Instance) aren't they? Yep, CentOS Cloud Instance SIG is a different project meant to get CentOS running on all major cloud platforms. This one is somehow successful in that their official image will boot in Cloudstack
Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort
Adrian, You're not too old-fashioned, in fact you have a good point that may not appear so obvious to others on this list. I personally resigned to the idea that to do cloud you really, _really_ need to know what you're doing, otherwise it will end in tears. I experienced this first hand, but perhaps there is a way to make this easier the others. Let's keep at this and perhaps we can come up with something to tease the hobbyists and the SMB admins. Lucian -- Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology! Nux! www.nux.ro - Original Message - From: Adrian Lewis adr...@alsiconsulting.co.uk To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org Cc: sebgoa run...@gmail.com, Paul Angus paul.an...@shapeblue.com Sent: Thursday, 2 April, 2015 14:46:09 Subject: RE: CentOS Cloud SIG effort Hi Lucian, This is still a very devops/developer centric approach which in my opinion is rife within the ACS community (understandably) and which is inadvertently hostile/elitist to many who might otherwise be interested. I think that many regular sys admins who perhaps don't want to get involved with docker, github, compiling stuff, running 3rd party provisioning scripts etc and just want to run up a quick POC would end up being alienated by this - they don’t have the time to learn these sorts of technologies if they would never use them otherwise. Obviously to most of the audience in this list that's not the case but I really think that there are a lot of potential (albeit likely small) deployments out there where the admins run a mile if getting something to work involves the word 'git' or even 'mailing-list'. These people just go out and buy vCloud Director instead or do without. Citrix would probably get more customers for CloudPlatform as well if it were very simple to try out ACS. ACS needs hobbyists and sys admins in SMBs as well in my opinion, not just devops people in large corporations or service providers. More people playing with it and in turn talking/blogging about it and raising its profile will help immensely. These people need to be convinced that #Cloudstackworks. Get packages into Debian/Ubuntu and there's an even greater audience. Grab the long tail and the rest of the beast comes with it. Just my opinion btw - perhaps I'm too old-fashioned and need to learn more. Adrian -Original Message- From: Nux! [mailto:n...@li.nux.ro] Sent: 02 April 2015 13:01 To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org Cc: sebgoa; Paul Angus Subject: Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort Hi Adrian Pretty sure that if getting the management server up and running was as simple as... 1. Install CentOS 2. yum install cloudstack 3. setup-cloudstack-all-in-one.sh ...we'd see many more people at least trying it out. Some might see the current installation options as easy enough but if someone could get it up and running without even looking at the docs, I reckon they'd be more likely to do it and then consult the docs when they got stuck. This reminds me of https://github.com/thehyperadvisor/cldstk-deploy , though there could certainly more/better ideas on how to ease things up, at least for a PoC. I'm sure Sebastien will quickly propose docker. :) If the packages could be put into the centos-extras repo that would do the trick. I'm sure there's more to it than my simplistic idea but could we discuss the viability of this? I think this will be difficult to achieve, though I am short on proper details, I believe the way we (in cloudstack) ship some stuff - particularly java stuff - is not exactly kosher from a RedHat packaging point of view. They have their own routine, practices and so on. Furthermore, let's say we get that right, keeping it up to date in their repo will also be quite an effort. I think the idea is good and in an ideal world it's how we'd do it, but right now with the release cadence of Cloudstack and our few resources, it's something that - simply - it's not worth doing. We could do with a one-stop script that does everything for the user including installing the mysql/mariadb server aspect even setting up NFS shares on the same box (leaving the other more granular setup scripts for 'advanced' users. If centos-extras is not feasible, how about EPEL? Might even get some Fedora people interested as well (if it works on Fedora). See the ansible link I gave above. Re EPEL and Fedora, they're having trouble maintaining their own stuff, i.e. they removed openstack from there and are maintaining separate repositories at https://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/openstack/ Pretty sure that this particular CentOS SIG is about running the management/infrastructure side of things as opposed to running centos as a guest in case anyone is unsure. Although clearly related, earlier comments about cloud-init are surely more related to another CentOS SIG (Cloud Instance) aren't they? Yep, CentOS Cloud Instance SIG is a different project meant to get
RE: CentOS Cloud SIG effort
Hi Lucian, This is still a very devops/developer centric approach which in my opinion is rife within the ACS community (understandably) and which is inadvertently hostile/elitist to many who might otherwise be interested. I think that many regular sys admins who perhaps don't want to get involved with docker, github, compiling stuff, running 3rd party provisioning scripts etc and just want to run up a quick POC would end up being alienated by this - they don’t have the time to learn these sorts of technologies if they would never use them otherwise. Obviously to most of the audience in this list that's not the case but I really think that there are a lot of potential (albeit likely small) deployments out there where the admins run a mile if getting something to work involves the word 'git' or even 'mailing-list'. These people just go out and buy vCloud Director instead or do without. Citrix would probably get more customers for CloudPlatform as well if it were very simple to try out ACS. ACS needs hobbyists and sys admins in SMBs as well in my opinion, not just devops people in large corporations or service providers. More people playing with it and in turn talking/blogging about it and raising its profile will help immensely. These people need to be convinced that #Cloudstackworks. Get packages into Debian/Ubuntu and there's an even greater audience. Grab the long tail and the rest of the beast comes with it. Just my opinion btw - perhaps I'm too old-fashioned and need to learn more. Adrian -Original Message- From: Nux! [mailto:n...@li.nux.ro] Sent: 02 April 2015 13:01 To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org Cc: sebgoa; Paul Angus Subject: Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort Hi Adrian Pretty sure that if getting the management server up and running was as simple as... 1. Install CentOS 2. yum install cloudstack 3. setup-cloudstack-all-in-one.sh ...we'd see many more people at least trying it out. Some might see the current installation options as easy enough but if someone could get it up and running without even looking at the docs, I reckon they'd be more likely to do it and then consult the docs when they got stuck. This reminds me of https://github.com/thehyperadvisor/cldstk-deploy , though there could certainly more/better ideas on how to ease things up, at least for a PoC. I'm sure Sebastien will quickly propose docker. :) If the packages could be put into the centos-extras repo that would do the trick. I'm sure there's more to it than my simplistic idea but could we discuss the viability of this? I think this will be difficult to achieve, though I am short on proper details, I believe the way we (in cloudstack) ship some stuff - particularly java stuff - is not exactly kosher from a RedHat packaging point of view. They have their own routine, practices and so on. Furthermore, let's say we get that right, keeping it up to date in their repo will also be quite an effort. I think the idea is good and in an ideal world it's how we'd do it, but right now with the release cadence of Cloudstack and our few resources, it's something that - simply - it's not worth doing. We could do with a one-stop script that does everything for the user including installing the mysql/mariadb server aspect even setting up NFS shares on the same box (leaving the other more granular setup scripts for 'advanced' users. If centos-extras is not feasible, how about EPEL? Might even get some Fedora people interested as well (if it works on Fedora). See the ansible link I gave above. Re EPEL and Fedora, they're having trouble maintaining their own stuff, i.e. they removed openstack from there and are maintaining separate repositories at https://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/openstack/ Pretty sure that this particular CentOS SIG is about running the management/infrastructure side of things as opposed to running centos as a guest in case anyone is unsure. Although clearly related, earlier comments about cloud-init are surely more related to another CentOS SIG (Cloud Instance) aren't they? Yep, CentOS Cloud Instance SIG is a different project meant to get CentOS running on all major cloud platforms. This one is somehow successful in that their official image will boot in Cloudstack and get a ssh key if one is set, even execute user data, but there are many bugs and other problems. Far from ideal; it would be great if someone with python skills would take up polishing the cloud-init Cloudstack source a bit, perhaps as part of GSoC. My stance on all this is, bother less with packaging or inclusion in CentOS official repos and focus more on getting it to work as smoothly as possible. Also, attending the CentOS events with presentations on Cloudstack is a great idea to raise some awareness. /imho Lucian
Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort
On 03/27/2015 04:41 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote: On Mar 26, 2015, at 4:28 PM, Rich Bowenrbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: A while back I mentioned to some folks (I think it was this list, but it may have been a subset) that the CentOS community is working on a Cloud SIG (Special Interest Group) effort. You can read a little about it athttp://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/Cloud The idea is to ensure that cloud infrastructure software, like CloudStack, OpenStack, Open Nebula, and Eucalyptus, works solidly on CentOS, has all of the prerequisite packages available, gets CI on the CentOS platform, and so on. At the moment, this is*only* OpenStack, with the other projects unrepresented. If you are interested in adoption of CloudStack on CentOS (and, by side effect, on Red Hat Enterprise Linux), we'd love to have your participation in this effort. Hi Rich, thanks for the ping again. We have been in touch with KB (Nux! and I mostly) and submitted our scripts for building a cloudstack centOS templates upstream. It works and was merged at some point, but it got pulled back because we stick some scripts in there. Bottom line is that I feel we need to work further upstream in cloud-init to improve cloudstack support there, once that’s done, we can come back to the CentOS builds for cloudstack. fwiw, our install base is probably ~70% centOS and we already have centOS7 support. In the OpenStack world, we see CentOS as a great way to get the message out about OpenStack. Wearing my ASF hat, I'd really like to see the same vehicle be used to get the word out about CloudStack. CentOS goes to a lot of events, and many of them are ones that CloudStack isn't at. I'd love to see the Cloud SIG be a way to get the word about CloudStack into audiences that typically only ever hear about OpenStack. (Yes, I have split loyalties here, and that's fine.) Anyways, a reminder that we will be having this meeting on #centos-devel at 15:00 UTC *tomorrow*, and it would be awesome to at least have some representation from the CloudStack community there to ask the right questions and see what we can do, on the CentOS side, to fix these cloud-init problems and bring CloudStack some more of the CentOS spotlight. Or even just show up so that folks can meet you and we can figure out if there's anything we can do to help one another. --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort
On Mar 26, 2015, at 4:28 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: A while back I mentioned to some folks (I think it was this list, but it may have been a subset) that the CentOS community is working on a Cloud SIG (Special Interest Group) effort. You can read a little about it at http://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/Cloud The idea is to ensure that cloud infrastructure software, like CloudStack, OpenStack, Open Nebula, and Eucalyptus, works solidly on CentOS, has all of the prerequisite packages available, gets CI on the CentOS platform, and so on. At the moment, this is *only* OpenStack, with the other projects unrepresented. If you are interested in adoption of CloudStack on CentOS (and, by side effect, on Red Hat Enterprise Linux), we'd love to have your participation in this effort. Hi Rich, thanks for the ping again. We have been in touch with KB (Nux! and I mostly) and submitted our scripts for building a cloudstack centOS templates upstream. It works and was merged at some point, but it got pulled back because we stick some scripts in there. Bottom line is that I feel we need to work further upstream in cloud-init to improve cloudstack support there, once that’s done, we can come back to the CentOS builds for cloudstack. fwiw, our install base is probably ~70% centOS and we already have centOS7 support. -sebastien The best way to find out how to get involved is: * Attend our weekly meeting, 15:00 UTC, on #centos-devel, on the Freenode IRC network * Join the centos-devel mailing list - http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel Also, several of the CentoOS guys are likely to be at Apachecon, since several of them are based in Austin, so that's also a good time to find out more. --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
CentOS Cloud SIG effort
A while back I mentioned to some folks (I think it was this list, but it may have been a subset) that the CentOS community is working on a Cloud SIG (Special Interest Group) effort. You can read a little about it at http://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/Cloud The idea is to ensure that cloud infrastructure software, like CloudStack, OpenStack, Open Nebula, and Eucalyptus, works solidly on CentOS, has all of the prerequisite packages available, gets CI on the CentOS platform, and so on. At the moment, this is *only* OpenStack, with the other projects unrepresented. If you are interested in adoption of CloudStack on CentOS (and, by side effect, on Red Hat Enterprise Linux), we'd love to have your participation in this effort. The best way to find out how to get involved is: * Attend our weekly meeting, 15:00 UTC, on #centos-devel, on the Freenode IRC network * Join the centos-devel mailing list - http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel Also, several of the CentoOS guys are likely to be at Apachecon, since several of them are based in Austin, so that's also a good time to find out more. --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
CentOS Cloud SIG effort
I've mentioned to some of you that the CentOS project has a number of SIGs - Special Interest Groups - that are working on various verticals to make sure that stuff works on CentOS. One of these SIGs is the Cloud SIG - http://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/Cloud - and at the moment, really only OpenStack is engaged in that effort. I wanted to make sure that the people on this list are aware of that effort, and have the opportunity to get involved. In particular, there's a meeting on #centos-devel (Freenode IRC) every Thursday at 15:00 UTC (`date -d 15:00 UTC` for your own time zone!) where the work is discussed. It would be great if CloudStack could have a representation there, to make sure that CloudStack is being tested well on CentOS, and that the necessary packages are available to someone trying to deploy there. --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Re: CentOS Cloud SIG effort
Hello, Thanks for the heads-up. There are many people using Cloudstack on CentOS and are interested in the continued health of the distribution, it is one of the primary platforms and it gets tested thoroughly. There's also an effort to have the CentOS cloud images work correctly on Cloudstack (CloudInstance SIG). Regards, Lucian -- Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology! Nux! www.nux.ro - Original Message - From: Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org Sent: Thursday, 22 January, 2015 15:44:50 Subject: CentOS Cloud SIG effort I've mentioned to some of you that the CentOS project has a number of SIGs - Special Interest Groups - that are working on various verticals to make sure that stuff works on CentOS. One of these SIGs is the Cloud SIG - http://wiki.centos.org/SpecialInterestGroup/Cloud - and at the moment, really only OpenStack is engaged in that effort. I wanted to make sure that the people on this list are aware of that effort, and have the opportunity to get involved. In particular, there's a meeting on #centos-devel (Freenode IRC) every Thursday at 15:00 UTC (`date -d 15:00 UTC` for your own time zone!) where the work is discussed. It would be great if CloudStack could have a representation there, to make sure that CloudStack is being tested well on CentOS, and that the necessary packages are available to someone trying to deploy there. --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
