Re: A little annoying development with emails and "integration" with other tooling ...

[Jacques Le Roux]

Le 08/05/2019 à 13:24, Christofer Dutz a écrit :

I agree that Jira emails have been there for quite some time.
It seems as more projects are starting to discuss things in jira.


What we decided to do in OFBiz, for several years already, is to discuss important matters 1st in dev ML and when a consensus is reached to continue 
in Jira. We have a notification@ ML for Jira issues.


I trust this can help

Disclaimer: we are not yet using Git but are in the process of moving from 
Subversion, so are not concerned by the title thing

Jacques


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Re: A little annoying development with emails and "integration" with other tooling ...

[Claude Edney]

I totally agree Christopher and I thank you for acknowledging me because you 
can easily get confused and lost with so many mailing list emails lol. I would 
like to add in the friendliest manner, can the origination of the projects 
followed by a small synopsis rehashing what some may have missed would be 
awesome. Not only are the subject lines for projects confusing, but also their 
responses. This makes the journey and destination of the project ambiguous in 
definition and difficult to jump in if you missed communications in the chain. 
Thanks again for inquiring and I am happy to help when I can, I apologize for 
not being as active as I was previously in communications due to work; however 
I deeply believe in the projects including their troubleshoots. If I cannot get 
on a project I do want to follow it through the email chain for educational 
purposes as well. Thanks again and hope all is well!

Claude 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 8, 2019, at 6:04 AM, Lars Francke  wrote:
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> I partially agree with you.
> 
> I agree with Github pull requests. They are hard to follow and hard to read
> (and I don't only mean the mails but also on the site itself).
> 
> I disagree with the Jira mails though. I wouldn't really know how to
> improve those and I like that the discussion is part of the issue itself
> and I don't agree that this has changed recently. Jira discussions have
> been happening like this for years at least in the projects I'm working on,
> so nothing really has changed there. They can't really put much content in
> the subject?
> 
> I also dislike that it's getting harder to keep track of things with
> Github + Jira. There are open Jira issues with "Pending Review" (or
> similar) state and there are open Pull requests where there used to be only
> one place.
> 
> Do you have any suggestions on how to improve this?
> 
> Cheers,
> Lars
> 
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM Christofer Dutz 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I have noticed in a lot of projects I am involved in, that my active
>> participation has dropped with more and more communities shifting to
>> discuss things in jira and using github code reviews.
>> 
>> Usually I used the title of emails to decide on which discussions I should
>> follow … this worked great till all topics sort of start with:
>> 
>> [jira][someoperation][somproject-someissueid] some description
>> 
>> Or even worse:
>> 
>> [GitHub] [someproject] someone commented on a change in pull request
>> #someid: some description
>> 
>> …
>> 
>> Is it just me, or do you also have problems mass-scanning mailinglists
>> with these titles in most of their emails?
>> I mean … I am currently following about 30-40 email lists and I really
>> have to be efficient in keeping up to date.
>> 
>> For me I think it’s really damaging as I am not willing to manually go
>> through all the Jira issues and github pull requests or github issues to
>> scan through masses of emails to find the usually minimal information they
>> contain.
>> Especially github reviews really piss me off as the net information
>> content for each of these emails is minimal their use is minimal as the
>> context isn’t contained and I have to click on 10 emails to get the point
>> of one single review.
>> 
>> I think it’s great to be open to changes, but we really have to ensure we
>> don’t lose what has been good.
>> 
>> What do you think?
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> 
>> 


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Re: A little annoying development with emails and "integration" with other tooling ...

[Christofer Dutz]

Hi Dave,

Thank you very much ... highly appreciated 
:-)

Chris

Am 08.05.19, 21:26 schrieb "Dave Fisher" :

Hi -

I’ve submitted INFRA-18350 Gitbox - Improve Generated Email Subjects

I’ve suggested a shorter, more consistent email subject. Threading is being 
worked on slowly.

Regards,
Dave

> On May 8, 2019, at 7:15 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> Hi -
> 
> I find it nearly impossible to follow GitHub (GitBox) emails. I know 
Infra has done some work on threading these which has improved the situation. 
More needs to be done to improve the subjects. Perhaps we can also create 
digest emails.
> 
> For JIRA I guess since I’ve used JIRA off and on since JIRA version 1 AND 
it is easier to have a meaningful subject I’m less concerned.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 8, 2019, at 4:24 AM, Christofer Dutz  
wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Lars,
>> 
>> I agree that Jira emails have been there for quite some time. 
>> It seems as more projects are starting to discuss things in jira.
>> What I'm more referring to is that with the jira issues, it would be 
great if the title of these emails could be stripped down drastically.
>> Could imagine the email of the user doing something being used as sender 
and for example strip down the whole "JIRA Christofer Dutz commented on 
PLC4X-0815: yadda yadda" to something like "PLC4X-0815: yadda yadda (New 
comment)"
>> It's all this nonsense prefix to the interesting part of the mail title 
I'm mostly criticizing. 
>> Besides the lack of content in the GitHub emails, which is a second 
issue for me.
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Am 08.05.19, 12:05 schrieb "Lars Francke" :
>> 
>>   Hi Chris,
>> 
>>   I partially agree with you.
>> 
>>   I agree with Github pull requests. They are hard to follow and hard to 
read
>>   (and I don't only mean the mails but also on the site itself).
>> 
>>   I disagree with the Jira mails though. I wouldn't really know how to
>>   improve those and I like that the discussion is part of the issue 
itself
>>   and I don't agree that this has changed recently. Jira discussions have
>>   been happening like this for years at least in the projects I'm 
working on,
>>   so nothing really has changed there. They can't really put much 
content in
>>   the subject?
>> 
>>   I also dislike that it's getting harder to keep track of things with
>>   Github + Jira. There are open Jira issues with "Pending Review" (or
>>   similar) state and there are open Pull requests where there used to be 
only
>>   one place.
>> 
>>   Do you have any suggestions on how to improve this?
>> 
>>   Cheers,
>>   Lars
>> 
>>   On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM Christofer Dutz 

>>   wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I have noticed in a lot of projects I am involved in, that my active
>>> participation has dropped with more and more communities shifting to
>>> discuss things in jira and using github code reviews.
>>> 
>>> Usually I used the title of emails to decide on which discussions I 
should
>>> follow … this worked great till all topics sort of start with:
>>> 
>>> [jira][someoperation][somproject-someissueid] some description
>>> 
>>> Or even worse:
>>> 
>>> [GitHub] [someproject] someone commented on a change in pull request
>>> #someid: some description
>>> 
>>> …
>>> 
>>> Is it just me, or do you also have problems mass-scanning mailinglists
>>> with these titles in most of their emails?
>>> I mean … I am currently following about 30-40 email lists and I really
>>> have to be efficient in keeping up to date.
>>> 
>>> For me I think it’s really damaging as I am not willing to manually go
>>> through all the Jira issues and github pull requests or github issues to
>>> scan through masses of emails to find the usually minimal information 
they
>>> contain.
>>> Especially github reviews really piss me off as the net information
>>> content for each of these emails is minimal their use is minimal as the
>>> context isn’t contained and I have to click on 10 emails to get the 
point
>>> of one single review.
>>> 
>>> I think it’s great to be open to changes, but we really have to ensure 
we
>>> don’t lose what has been good.
>>> 
>>> What do you think?
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: A little annoying development with emails and "integration" with other tooling ...

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

I’ve submitted INFRA-18350 Gitbox - Improve Generated Email Subjects

I’ve suggested a shorter, more consistent email subject. Threading is being 
worked on slowly.

Regards,
Dave

> On May 8, 2019, at 7:15 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> Hi -
> 
> I find it nearly impossible to follow GitHub (GitBox) emails. I know Infra 
> has done some work on threading these which has improved the situation. More 
> needs to be done to improve the subjects. Perhaps we can also create digest 
> emails.
> 
> For JIRA I guess since I’ve used JIRA off and on since JIRA version 1 AND it 
> is easier to have a meaningful subject I’m less concerned.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 8, 2019, at 4:24 AM, Christofer Dutz  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Lars,
>> 
>> I agree that Jira emails have been there for quite some time. 
>> It seems as more projects are starting to discuss things in jira.
>> What I'm more referring to is that with the jira issues, it would be great 
>> if the title of these emails could be stripped down drastically.
>> Could imagine the email of the user doing something being used as sender and 
>> for example strip down the whole "JIRA Christofer Dutz commented on 
>> PLC4X-0815: yadda yadda" to something like "PLC4X-0815: yadda yadda (New 
>> comment)"
>> It's all this nonsense prefix to the interesting part of the mail title I'm 
>> mostly criticizing. 
>> Besides the lack of content in the GitHub emails, which is a second issue 
>> for me.
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Am 08.05.19, 12:05 schrieb "Lars Francke" :
>> 
>>   Hi Chris,
>> 
>>   I partially agree with you.
>> 
>>   I agree with Github pull requests. They are hard to follow and hard to read
>>   (and I don't only mean the mails but also on the site itself).
>> 
>>   I disagree with the Jira mails though. I wouldn't really know how to
>>   improve those and I like that the discussion is part of the issue itself
>>   and I don't agree that this has changed recently. Jira discussions have
>>   been happening like this for years at least in the projects I'm working on,
>>   so nothing really has changed there. They can't really put much content in
>>   the subject?
>> 
>>   I also dislike that it's getting harder to keep track of things with
>>   Github + Jira. There are open Jira issues with "Pending Review" (or
>>   similar) state and there are open Pull requests where there used to be only
>>   one place.
>> 
>>   Do you have any suggestions on how to improve this?
>> 
>>   Cheers,
>>   Lars
>> 
>>   On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM Christofer Dutz 
>>   wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I have noticed in a lot of projects I am involved in, that my active
>>> participation has dropped with more and more communities shifting to
>>> discuss things in jira and using github code reviews.
>>> 
>>> Usually I used the title of emails to decide on which discussions I should
>>> follow … this worked great till all topics sort of start with:
>>> 
>>> [jira][someoperation][somproject-someissueid] some description
>>> 
>>> Or even worse:
>>> 
>>> [GitHub] [someproject] someone commented on a change in pull request
>>> #someid: some description
>>> 
>>> …
>>> 
>>> Is it just me, or do you also have problems mass-scanning mailinglists
>>> with these titles in most of their emails?
>>> I mean … I am currently following about 30-40 email lists and I really
>>> have to be efficient in keeping up to date.
>>> 
>>> For me I think it’s really damaging as I am not willing to manually go
>>> through all the Jira issues and github pull requests or github issues to
>>> scan through masses of emails to find the usually minimal information they
>>> contain.
>>> Especially github reviews really piss me off as the net information
>>> content for each of these emails is minimal their use is minimal as the
>>> context isn’t contained and I have to click on 10 emails to get the point
>>> of one single review.
>>> 
>>> I think it’s great to be open to changes, but we really have to ensure we
>>> don’t lose what has been good.
>>> 
>>> What do you think?
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: A little annoying development with emails and "integration" with other tooling ...

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

I find it nearly impossible to follow GitHub (GitBox) emails. I know Infra has 
done some work on threading these which has improved the situation. More needs 
to be done to improve the subjects. Perhaps we can also create digest emails.

For JIRA I guess since I’ve used JIRA off and on since JIRA version 1 AND it is 
easier to have a meaningful subject I’m less concerned.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 8, 2019, at 4:24 AM, Christofer Dutz  wrote:
> 
> Hi Lars,
> 
> I agree that Jira emails have been there for quite some time. 
> It seems as more projects are starting to discuss things in jira.
> What I'm more referring to is that with the jira issues, it would be great if 
> the title of these emails could be stripped down drastically.
> Could imagine the email of the user doing something being used as sender and 
> for example strip down the whole "JIRA Christofer Dutz commented on 
> PLC4X-0815: yadda yadda" to something like "PLC4X-0815: yadda yadda (New 
> comment)"
> It's all this nonsense prefix to the interesting part of the mail title I'm 
> mostly criticizing. 
> Besides the lack of content in the GitHub emails, which is a second issue for 
> me.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> Am 08.05.19, 12:05 schrieb "Lars Francke" :
> 
>Hi Chris,
> 
>I partially agree with you.
> 
>I agree with Github pull requests. They are hard to follow and hard to read
>(and I don't only mean the mails but also on the site itself).
> 
>I disagree with the Jira mails though. I wouldn't really know how to
>improve those and I like that the discussion is part of the issue itself
>and I don't agree that this has changed recently. Jira discussions have
>been happening like this for years at least in the projects I'm working on,
>so nothing really has changed there. They can't really put much content in
>the subject?
> 
>I also dislike that it's getting harder to keep track of things with
>Github + Jira. There are open Jira issues with "Pending Review" (or
>similar) state and there are open Pull requests where there used to be only
>one place.
> 
>Do you have any suggestions on how to improve this?
> 
>Cheers,
>Lars
> 
>On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM Christofer Dutz 
>wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I have noticed in a lot of projects I am involved in, that my active
>> participation has dropped with more and more communities shifting to
>> discuss things in jira and using github code reviews.
>> 
>> Usually I used the title of emails to decide on which discussions I should
>> follow … this worked great till all topics sort of start with:
>> 
>> [jira][someoperation][somproject-someissueid] some description
>> 
>> Or even worse:
>> 
>> [GitHub] [someproject] someone commented on a change in pull request
>> #someid: some description
>> 
>> …
>> 
>> Is it just me, or do you also have problems mass-scanning mailinglists
>> with these titles in most of their emails?
>> I mean … I am currently following about 30-40 email lists and I really
>> have to be efficient in keeping up to date.
>> 
>> For me I think it’s really damaging as I am not willing to manually go
>> through all the Jira issues and github pull requests or github issues to
>> scan through masses of emails to find the usually minimal information they
>> contain.
>> Especially github reviews really piss me off as the net information
>> content for each of these emails is minimal their use is minimal as the
>> context isn’t contained and I have to click on 10 emails to get the point
>> of one single review.
>> 
>> I think it’s great to be open to changes, but we really have to ensure we
>> don’t lose what has been good.
>> 
>> What do you think?
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: A little annoying development with emails and "integration" with other tooling ...

[Christofer Dutz]

Hi Lars,

I agree that Jira emails have been there for quite some time. 
It seems as more projects are starting to discuss things in jira.
What I'm more referring to is that with the jira issues, it would be great if 
the title of these emails could be stripped down drastically.
Could imagine the email of the user doing something being used as sender and 
for example strip down the whole "JIRA Christofer Dutz commented on PLC4X-0815: 
yadda yadda" to something like "PLC4X-0815: yadda yadda (New comment)"
It's all this nonsense prefix to the interesting part of the mail title I'm 
mostly criticizing. 
Besides the lack of content in the GitHub emails, which is a second issue for 
me.

Chris



Am 08.05.19, 12:05 schrieb "Lars Francke" :

Hi Chris,

I partially agree with you.

I agree with Github pull requests. They are hard to follow and hard to read
(and I don't only mean the mails but also on the site itself).

I disagree with the Jira mails though. I wouldn't really know how to
improve those and I like that the discussion is part of the issue itself
and I don't agree that this has changed recently. Jira discussions have
been happening like this for years at least in the projects I'm working on,
so nothing really has changed there. They can't really put much content in
the subject?

I also dislike that it's getting harder to keep track of things with
Github + Jira. There are open Jira issues with "Pending Review" (or
similar) state and there are open Pull requests where there used to be only
one place.

Do you have any suggestions on how to improve this?

Cheers,
Lars

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM Christofer Dutz 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have noticed in a lot of projects I am involved in, that my active
> participation has dropped with more and more communities shifting to
> discuss things in jira and using github code reviews.
>
> Usually I used the title of emails to decide on which discussions I should
> follow … this worked great till all topics sort of start with:
>
> [jira][someoperation][somproject-someissueid] some description
>
> Or even worse:
>
> [GitHub] [someproject] someone commented on a change in pull request
> #someid: some description
>
> …
>
> Is it just me, or do you also have problems mass-scanning mailinglists
> with these titles in most of their emails?
> I mean … I am currently following about 30-40 email lists and I really
> have to be efficient in keeping up to date.
>
> For me I think it’s really damaging as I am not willing to manually go
> through all the Jira issues and github pull requests or github issues to
> scan through masses of emails to find the usually minimal information they
> contain.
> Especially github reviews really piss me off as the net information
> content for each of these emails is minimal their use is minimal as the
> context isn’t contained and I have to click on 10 emails to get the point
> of one single review.
>
> I think it’s great to be open to changes, but we really have to ensure we
> don’t lose what has been good.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Chris
>
>
>



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Re: A little annoying development with emails and "integration" with other tooling ...

[Claude Warren]

Christofer,

I have to agree, the projects I have been involved with are getting harder
to follow.  Too much noise in the signal.  However, I do not have any
constructive suggestions at this time.

I keep thinking there could be an app/tool that 

but then I remember Claude's Law:"There is no first world problem that can
not be made worse by an app."

Claude

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:13 AM Christofer Dutz 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have noticed in a lot of projects I am involved in, that my active
> participation has dropped with more and more communities shifting to
> discuss things in jira and using github code reviews.
>
> Usually I used the title of emails to decide on which discussions I should
> follow … this worked great till all topics sort of start with:
>
> [jira][someoperation][somproject-someissueid] some description
>
> Or even worse:
>
> [GitHub] [someproject] someone commented on a change in pull request
> #someid: some description
>
> …
>
> Is it just me, or do you also have problems mass-scanning mailinglists
> with these titles in most of their emails?
> I mean … I am currently following about 30-40 email lists and I really
> have to be efficient in keeping up to date.
>
> For me I think it’s really damaging as I am not willing to manually go
> through all the Jira issues and github pull requests or github issues to
> scan through masses of emails to find the usually minimal information they
> contain.
> Especially github reviews really piss me off as the net information
> content for each of these emails is minimal their use is minimal as the
> context isn’t contained and I have to click on 10 emails to get the point
> of one single review.
>
> I think it’s great to be open to changes, but we really have to ensure we
> don’t lose what has been good.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Chris
>
>
>

-- 
I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren

Re: A little annoying development with emails and "integration" with other tooling ...

[Lars Francke]

Hi Chris,

I partially agree with you.

I agree with Github pull requests. They are hard to follow and hard to read
(and I don't only mean the mails but also on the site itself).

I disagree with the Jira mails though. I wouldn't really know how to
improve those and I like that the discussion is part of the issue itself
and I don't agree that this has changed recently. Jira discussions have
been happening like this for years at least in the projects I'm working on,
so nothing really has changed there. They can't really put much content in
the subject?

I also dislike that it's getting harder to keep track of things with
Github + Jira. There are open Jira issues with "Pending Review" (or
similar) state and there are open Pull requests where there used to be only
one place.

Do you have any suggestions on how to improve this?

Cheers,
Lars

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:13 AM Christofer Dutz 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have noticed in a lot of projects I am involved in, that my active
> participation has dropped with more and more communities shifting to
> discuss things in jira and using github code reviews.
>
> Usually I used the title of emails to decide on which discussions I should
> follow … this worked great till all topics sort of start with:
>
> [jira][someoperation][somproject-someissueid] some description
>
> Or even worse:
>
> [GitHub] [someproject] someone commented on a change in pull request
> #someid: some description
>
> …
>
> Is it just me, or do you also have problems mass-scanning mailinglists
> with these titles in most of their emails?
> I mean … I am currently following about 30-40 email lists and I really
> have to be efficient in keeping up to date.
>
> For me I think it’s really damaging as I am not willing to manually go
> through all the Jira issues and github pull requests or github issues to
> scan through masses of emails to find the usually minimal information they
> contain.
> Especially github reviews really piss me off as the net information
> content for each of these emails is minimal their use is minimal as the
> context isn’t contained and I have to click on 10 emails to get the point
> of one single review.
>
> I think it’s great to be open to changes, but we really have to ensure we
> don’t lose what has been good.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Chris
>
>
>

A little annoying development with emails and "integration" with other tooling ...

[Christofer Dutz]

Hi all,

I have noticed in a lot of projects I am involved in, that my active 
participation has dropped with more and more communities shifting to discuss 
things in jira and using github code reviews.

Usually I used the title of emails to decide on which discussions I should 
follow … this worked great till all topics sort of start with:

[jira][someoperation][somproject-someissueid] some description

Or even worse:

[GitHub] [someproject] someone commented on a change in pull request #someid: 
some description

…

Is it just me, or do you also have problems mass-scanning mailinglists with 
these titles in most of their emails?
I mean … I am currently following about 30-40 email lists and I really have to 
be efficient in keeping up to date.

For me I think it’s really damaging as I am not willing to manually go through 
all the Jira issues and github pull requests or github issues to scan through 
masses of emails to find the usually minimal information they contain.
Especially github reviews really piss me off as the net information content for 
each of these emails is minimal their use is minimal as the context isn’t 
contained and I have to click on 10 emails to get the point of one single 
review.

I think it’s great to be open to changes, but we really have to ensure we don’t 
lose what has been good.

What do you think?

Chris