Re: Web site branding

[Michael Wu]

@Julian,

(copy my reply from another thread and paste it as below)

Just copy your comments here and adding my comments. Thank you for the
suggestions.

[Julian] - Also, make the disclaimer more prominent on the front page. It
is buried at the bottom of a very long page. I think it should appear in
the first screen-full.
[Michael] - a find an example from Apache Blur Incubating, do you mean
something similar to its disclaimer appears on front page? Such as:
http://incubator.apache.org/blur/.

[Julian] - In the docs, qualify all Apache projects with Apache. I think
you can skip "Apache" in the tag line "Secure Hadoop in real time" but you
must acknowledge trademarks.
[Michael] -
1. in the new site doc, I have added "Apache" preceding first mention of
"eagle" on every page, and commented the following "Eagle" on the page is
pointing to "Apache Eagle (incubating)".
2. "acknowledge trademarks", do you mean the trademarks of "hadoop". If I
understand right, the "tag line" you mentioned has been modified, it would
never mention "Hadoop" again.

[Julian] - In the docs, remove "fork me on github" from the top right
corner. The call to action is to join the Apache community.
[Michael] - Not quite clear with this tip. I'm wondering, where is the
appropriate position for us to place the "forking" element on the page? As
least, people may contribute by firstly forking a git repository. Do you
think the top-nav tag bar is good to add forking components?


Thanks.
Michael

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Julian Hyde  wrote:

> I added the following comments to the JIRA case:
>
> * Also, make the disclaimer more prominent on the front page. It is buried
> at the bottom of a very long page. I think it should appear in the first
> screen-full.
>
> * Apply these guidelines throughout the site, in particular to the docs,
> https://eagle.incubator.apache.org/docs/.
>
> * In the docs, qualify all Apache projects with Apache. I think you can
> skip "Apache" in the tag line "Secure Hadoop in real time" but you must
> acknowledge trademarks.
>
> * In the docs, remove "fork me on github" from the top right corner. The
> call to action is to join the Apache community.
>
> Julian
>
> > On Jul 17, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Michael Wu  wrote:
> >
> > BTW, here is a jira ticket for trying to fix this issue: EAGLE-380
> > . It'll be thankful to
> see
> > your comments on it. :)
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Michael Wu  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi guys,
> >>
> >> To my understanding on your suggestions, we could modify our docs in the
> >> following ways, please help review if they are satisfying the request:
> >> 1. if "eagle" is in doc page title, change it to "Apache Eagle
> >> (incubating)".
> >> 2. if there are many "eagle"s appear in the doc page content, change the
> >> first mention of it to "Apache Eagle (incubating, called Eagle in the
> >> following)".
> >> 3. change logo size or position.
> >>
> >> Anything missed, please DO correct me. Thanks.
> >> Michael
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 11:05 PM, Henry Saputra <
> henry.sapu...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yeah, thinking moving the link and incubator logo up in the header and
> >>> keep
> >>> the incubator disclaimer as footer.
> >>>
> >>> Also move some content in between to separate page to make visitor
> scroll
> >>> less for homepage.
> >>>
> >>> Thoughts?
> >>>
> >>> - Henry
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:31 PM, John D. Ament 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> 
> 
>  On 2016-06-29 20:48 (-0400), Henry Saputra 
>  wrote:
> > Probably we could move this section to Powered By Eagle page so
> >>> homepage
> > could be more clear it is part of ASF and also include Incubator
> > description on top of page.
> 
>  So you're thinking about moving some of the ASF logos up, not buried
> in
>  the footer?
> 
> >
> > On Thursday, June 30, 2016, arunkarthick m 
>  wrote:
> >
> >> The eBay logo and Paypal logo under who uses Eagle part is taking up
>  too
> >> much screen space. Apart from that ebay is mentioned only in one
> >>> place.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Arun
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:40 PM, Julian Hyde  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Check what the branding guide says. I think only the first
> >>> occurrence
> >>> needs to be fully-qualified.
> >>>
> >>> But also ask yourself: Does this page make it look like the
> >>> project
>  is
> >>> controlled by a particular company?
> >>>
>  On Jun 29, 2016, at 1:57 PM, arunkarthick m <
>  aruncarth...@gmail.com
> >> >
> >>> wrote:
> 
>  There are lots of places where we mentioned "Eagle". We need to
>  change
> >>> them
>  to be 

Re: Why?

[Michael Wu]

Sure, Julian, I'll take notice of your reminding. Thank you very much!

Michael

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Julian Hyde  wrote:

> Thanks for the explanation. But I hope you took note of my main point:
> code changes should be accompanied by sufficient explanation so that the
> community can review/understand them. We shouldn’t have to ask for an
> explanation.
>
> Making code changes transparent helps to build community.
>
> > On Jul 17, 2016, at 7:26 PM, Michael Wu  wrote:
> >
> > @Julian,
> >
> > it does seem confusing in this special case, let me explain why:
> > 1. at the time we had the discussion, 0.4.0-incubating PPMC vote had not
> > finished, and therefore I was not quite sure if it's the appropriate
> moment
> > to create the patch for .jar files. So, that's why EAGLE-378 came later
> > than EAGLE-377.
> > 2. conventionally, we used to make a pull request bound to a jira ticket,
> > so that's why I created the ticket just before the commit. If this is
> not a
> > good manner, I will try to avoid it in the future.
> > 3. EAGLE-377 was created based on the result of our discussion, and
> > pointing to 0.5.0 as its "fix version", which could be seen as a bug-fix
> > plan for 0.5.0.
> >
> > Thanks for pointing the problem out.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 1:28 AM, Edward Zhang  >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I feel the same. Eagle project today needs more discussion in Eagle dev
> DL.
> >> I do see many discussions and code reviews within individual emails
> instead
> >> of going through Eagle dev DL. And some users also ask questions to
> >> individual email directly :-)
> >>
> >> Could I suggest Eagle committers and community please discuss important
> >> plans and issues in Eagle dev DL to have public record for people to
> review
> >> at any time?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Edward
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Julian Hyde  > wrote:
> >>
> >>> I am seeing a few JIRA cases which are basically just check-in
> comments.
> >>> They are created just before the commit, they explain what was done in
> >> the
> >>> commit, do not explain why, do not link to any previous or future work.
> >>>
> >>> An example of this is EAGLE-378. It arrives a couple of days after I
> had
> >> a
> >>> conversation with Michael [1] about cleaning up included jars, yet it
> >> seems
> >>> to be doing exactly the opposite.
> >>>
> >>> Is the Eagle project operating commit-then-review or
> review-then-commit?
> >>> It seems to be operating commit-then-review, but if so, there’s not
> >> enough
> >>> information in the public record for people to review what is
> happening.
> >>>
> >>> As my math teacher used to say: don’t just write down the answer, you
> >> need
> >>> to show your working!
> >>>
> >>> Julian
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-378 <
> >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-378 <
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-378>>
> >>>
> >>> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-377 <
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-377> <
> >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-377 <
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-377>>
>
>

Re: [jira] [Commented] (EAGLE-380) fix eagle site/doc branding issue

[Michael Wu]

@Julian,

Just copy your comments here and adding my comments. Thank you for the
suggestions.

[Julian] - Also, make the disclaimer more prominent on the front page. It
is buried at the bottom of a very long page. I think it should appear in
the first screen-full.
[Michael] - a find an example from Apache Blur Incubating, do you mean
something similar to its disclaimer appears on front page? Such as:
http://incubator.apache.org/blur/.

[Julian] - In the docs, qualify all Apache projects with Apache. I think
you can skip "Apache" in the tag line "Secure Hadoop in real time" but you
must acknowledge trademarks.
[Michael] -
1. in the new site doc, I have added "Apache" preceding first mention of
"eagle" on every page, and commented the following "Eagle" on the page is
pointing to "Apache Eagle (incubating)".
2. "acknowledge trademarks", do you mean the trademarks of "hadoop". If I
understand right, the "tag line" you mentioned has been modified, it would
never mention "Hadoop" again.

[Julian] - In the docs, remove "fork me on github" from the top right
corner. The call to action is to join the Apache community.
[Michael] - Not quite clear with this tip. I'm wondering, where is the
appropriate position for us to place the "forking" element on the page? As
least, people may contribute by firstly forking a git repository. Do you
think the top-nav tag bar is good to add forking components?

Michael


On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Julian Hyde (JIRA)  wrote:

>
> [
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-380?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=15381860#comment-15381860
> ]
>
> Julian Hyde commented on EAGLE-380:
> ---
>
> Also, make the disclaimer more prominent on the front page. It is buried
> at the bottom of a very long page. I think it should appear in the first
> screen-full.
>
> Apply these guidelines throughout the site, in particular to the docs,
> https://eagle.incubator.apache.org/docs/.
>
> In the docs, qualify all Apache projects with Apache. I think you can skip
> "Apache" in the tag line "Secure Hadoop in real time" but you must
> acknowledge trademarks.
>
> In the docs, remove "fork me on github" from the top right corner. The
> call to action is to join the Apache community.
>
> > fix eagle site/doc branding issue
> > -
> >
> > Key: EAGLE-380
> > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-380
> > Project: Eagle
> >  Issue Type: Task
> >Reporter: Michael Wu
> >Assignee: Michael Wu
> >
> > We may solve this issue in the following way:
> > 1. if "eagle" is in doc page title, change it to "Apache Eagle
> (incubating)".
> > 2. if there are many "eagle"s appear in the doc page content, change the
> first mention of it to "Apache Eagle (incubating, called Eagle in the
> following)".
> > 3. change logo size or position.
>
>
>
> --
> This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA
> (v6.3.4#6332)
>

Re: Why?

[Julian Hyde]

Thanks for the explanation. But I hope you took note of my main point: code 
changes should be accompanied by sufficient explanation so that the community 
can review/understand them. We shouldn’t have to ask for an explanation.

Making code changes transparent helps to build community.

> On Jul 17, 2016, at 7:26 PM, Michael Wu  wrote:
> 
> @Julian,
> 
> it does seem confusing in this special case, let me explain why:
> 1. at the time we had the discussion, 0.4.0-incubating PPMC vote had not
> finished, and therefore I was not quite sure if it's the appropriate moment
> to create the patch for .jar files. So, that's why EAGLE-378 came later
> than EAGLE-377.
> 2. conventionally, we used to make a pull request bound to a jira ticket,
> so that's why I created the ticket just before the commit. If this is not a
> good manner, I will try to avoid it in the future.
> 3. EAGLE-377 was created based on the result of our discussion, and
> pointing to 0.5.0 as its "fix version", which could be seen as a bug-fix
> plan for 0.5.0.
> 
> Thanks for pointing the problem out.
> 
> Michael
> 
> On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 1:28 AM, Edward Zhang  >
> wrote:
> 
>> I feel the same. Eagle project today needs more discussion in Eagle dev DL.
>> I do see many discussions and code reviews within individual emails instead
>> of going through Eagle dev DL. And some users also ask questions to
>> individual email directly :-)
>> 
>> Could I suggest Eagle committers and community please discuss important
>> plans and issues in Eagle dev DL to have public record for people to review
>> at any time?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Edward
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Julian Hyde > > wrote:
>> 
>>> I am seeing a few JIRA cases which are basically just check-in comments.
>>> They are created just before the commit, they explain what was done in
>> the
>>> commit, do not explain why, do not link to any previous or future work.
>>> 
>>> An example of this is EAGLE-378. It arrives a couple of days after I had
>> a
>>> conversation with Michael [1] about cleaning up included jars, yet it
>> seems
>>> to be doing exactly the opposite.
>>> 
>>> Is the Eagle project operating commit-then-review or review-then-commit?
>>> It seems to be operating commit-then-review, but if so, there’s not
>> enough
>>> information in the public record for people to review what is happening.
>>> 
>>> As my math teacher used to say: don’t just write down the answer, you
>> need
>>> to show your working!
>>> 
>>> Julian
>>> 
>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-378 <
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-378 
>>> >
>>> 
>>> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-377 
>>>  <
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-377 
>>> >

Re: Web site branding

[Julian Hyde]

I added the following comments to the JIRA case:

* Also, make the disclaimer more prominent on the front page. It is buried at 
the bottom of a very long page. I think it should appear in the first 
screen-full.

* Apply these guidelines throughout the site, in particular to the docs, 
https://eagle.incubator.apache.org/docs/.

* In the docs, qualify all Apache projects with Apache. I think you can skip 
"Apache" in the tag line "Secure Hadoop in real time" but you must acknowledge 
trademarks.

* In the docs, remove "fork me on github" from the top right corner. The call 
to action is to join the Apache community.

Julian

> On Jul 17, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Michael Wu  wrote:
> 
> BTW, here is a jira ticket for trying to fix this issue: EAGLE-380
> . It'll be thankful to see
> your comments on it. :)
> 
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Michael Wu  wrote:
> 
>> Hi guys,
>> 
>> To my understanding on your suggestions, we could modify our docs in the
>> following ways, please help review if they are satisfying the request:
>> 1. if "eagle" is in doc page title, change it to "Apache Eagle
>> (incubating)".
>> 2. if there are many "eagle"s appear in the doc page content, change the
>> first mention of it to "Apache Eagle (incubating, called Eagle in the
>> following)".
>> 3. change logo size or position.
>> 
>> Anything missed, please DO correct me. Thanks.
>> Michael
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 11:05 PM, Henry Saputra 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yeah, thinking moving the link and incubator logo up in the header and
>>> keep
>>> the incubator disclaimer as footer.
>>> 
>>> Also move some content in between to separate page to make visitor scroll
>>> less for homepage.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts?
>>> 
>>> - Henry
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:31 PM, John D. Ament 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 
 
 On 2016-06-29 20:48 (-0400), Henry Saputra 
 wrote:
> Probably we could move this section to Powered By Eagle page so
>>> homepage
> could be more clear it is part of ASF and also include Incubator
> description on top of page.
 
 So you're thinking about moving some of the ASF logos up, not buried in
 the footer?
 
> 
> On Thursday, June 30, 2016, arunkarthick m 
 wrote:
> 
>> The eBay logo and Paypal logo under who uses Eagle part is taking up
 too
>> much screen space. Apart from that ebay is mentioned only in one
>>> place.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Arun
>> 
>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:40 PM, Julian Hyde > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Check what the branding guide says. I think only the first
>>> occurrence
>>> needs to be fully-qualified.
>>> 
>>> But also ask yourself: Does this page make it look like the
>>> project
 is
>>> controlled by a particular company?
>>> 
 On Jun 29, 2016, at 1:57 PM, arunkarthick m <
 aruncarth...@gmail.com
>> >
>>> wrote:
 
 There are lots of places where we mentioned "Eagle". We need to
 change
>>> them
 to be Apache Eagle.
 
 Thanks,
 Arun
 
 On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 11:52 AM, arun karthick manoharan <
 aruncarth...@gmail.com > wrote:
 
> I'm looking at the branding guide will send what I find.
> 
> Thanks,
> Arun
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 29, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Hao Chen > > wrote:
>> 
>> Will continue to verify and update the fix.
>> 
>> - Hao
>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 10:21 AM, Julian Hyde <
>>> jh...@apache.org
>> >
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Did you find any other violations of branding policy?
>>> 
 On Jun 29, 2016, at 10:13 AM, Hao Chen > > wrote:
 
 Updated with (incubating), thanks for advising.
 
 - Hao
 
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Julian Hyde <
 jh...@apache.org
>> >
> wrote:
> 
> There is a discussion on general@incubator about podlings’
 web
>>> sites
>>> and
> URLs, and Eagle came in for some criticism. Can someone
>>> please
>>> review
>>> the
> site for compliance with Apache’s branding guidelines for
>> podlings?
> 
> For instance, the first mention of Eagle on each page must
>>> be
>>> followed
>>> by
> “(incubating)”, and that does not happen. There may be
>>> other
> violations
> too. During incubation we are looking to see 

[jira] [Commented] (EAGLE-380) fix eagle site/doc branding issue

[Julian Hyde (JIRA)]

[ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-380?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=15381860#comment-15381860
 ] 

Julian Hyde commented on EAGLE-380:
---

Also, make the disclaimer more prominent on the front page. It is buried at the 
bottom of a very long page. I think it should appear in the first screen-full.

Apply these guidelines throughout the site, in particular to the docs, 
https://eagle.incubator.apache.org/docs/.

In the docs, qualify all Apache projects with Apache. I think you can skip 
"Apache" in the tag line "Secure Hadoop in real time" but you must acknowledge 
trademarks.

In the docs, remove "fork me on github" from the top right corner. The call to 
action is to join the Apache community.

> fix eagle site/doc branding issue
> -
>
> Key: EAGLE-380
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/EAGLE-380
> Project: Eagle
>  Issue Type: Task
>Reporter: Michael Wu
>Assignee: Michael Wu
>
> We may solve this issue in the following way:
> 1. if "eagle" is in doc page title, change it to "Apache Eagle (incubating)".
> 2. if there are many "eagle"s appear in the doc page content, change the 
> first mention of it to "Apache Eagle (incubating, called Eagle in the 
> following)".
> 3. change logo size or position.



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