Re: [PROPOSAL] Create integration (ServiceMix like) distribution in Karaf OSGi runtime

[Sobkowiak, Krzysztof]

+1 (binding)

I think, it's time to do this step. It's a difficult for me to say it 
after many years of contribution in this community. I think the idea of 
ServiceMix as oss integration platform was great but it is simply in a 
long agony actually. I think it has a chance to survive in the Karaf 
community.


When there are any features of current SMX distribution which will be 
not part of the integration distro (to not to make it too complicated) 
but are worth to survive, they can be simply described in a 
documentation as set of how-tos.


Best regards

Krzysztof


On 18.01.2023 13:44, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:

Hi guys,

The ServiceMix community is discussing about moving most of the SMX
parts into Karaf (the useful parts ;) ).

As part of this move, the "main" ServiceMix distribution is mainly a
Karaf assembly.

Currently, we have two distributions: "standard"
(apache-karaf-x.x.x.tar.gz) and "minimal"
(apache-karaf-minimal-x.x.x.tar.gz).

I propose to add a new distribution (in assemblies):
apache-karaf-integration-x.x.x.tar.gz containing ready to go
Karaf/Camel/CXF/ActiveMQ smooth integration.
Concretely, it means:
- we will have integration features repository XML
- we will have a distribution based on this features repository
- we will have itest on this distribution with the best coverage we can

If there is no objection, I will create the Jira and create a PR (as I
have almost all ready :)).

Thoughts ?

Regards
JB

Re: [PROPOSAL] Create integration (ServiceMix like) distribution in Karaf OSGi runtime

[Gerald Kallas]

+1 from mine, like the proposal.

> Jean-Baptiste Onofré  hat am 18.01.2023 13:44 CET 
> geschrieben:
> 
>  
> Hi guys,
> 
> The ServiceMix community is discussing about moving most of the SMX
> parts into Karaf (the useful parts ;) ).
> 
> As part of this move, the "main" ServiceMix distribution is mainly a
> Karaf assembly.
> 
> Currently, we have two distributions: "standard"
> (apache-karaf-x.x.x.tar.gz) and "minimal"
> (apache-karaf-minimal-x.x.x.tar.gz).
> 
> I propose to add a new distribution (in assemblies):
> apache-karaf-integration-x.x.x.tar.gz containing ready to go
> Karaf/Camel/CXF/ActiveMQ smooth integration.
> Concretely, it means:
> - we will have integration features repository XML
> - we will have a distribution based on this features repository
> - we will have itest on this distribution with the best coverage we can
> 
> If there is no objection, I will create the Jira and create a PR (as I
> have almost all ready :)).
> 
> Thoughts ?
> 
> Regards
> JB

Re: [PROPOSAL] Create integration (ServiceMix like) distribution in Karaf OSGi runtime

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi,

Fair point, the initial intent is "just" to have
https://github.com/apache/servicemix/tree/master/assemblies/apache-servicemix
like distribution in as apache-karaf-integration.

The users can build their custom distributions based on karaf minimal,
karaf standard, karaf integration.

Another option is not to create a full distribution, but features
repositories only and let user do the assembly. However, a lot of SMX
users don't want to create custom distro: they just want to extract &
run and then deploy their artifacts (ok, they are probably "old" style
:)).
Probably the option would be to have ready to use features
repositories, and "document" (or eventually add tool) how to use it.

Regards
JB

On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 10:42 AM Romain Manni-Bucau
 wrote:
>
> Hi JB,
>
> Whereas I can understand the intent I also see it will be hard because:
>
> 1. Default distro never matches well (even smix got custom distro)
> 2. Features are there for that exact need
>
> If I rephrase my point I guess the request looks more like "get us back what 
> vendors abandon" but this was mainly about support and contracts, here we'll 
> not get that so it looks to me we already provide that: karaf + features  (+ 
> optionally custom build if really needed).
> Not sticking to that sounds like you will get like hundreds of distro - 
> without thinking too hard I see:
> * cloud one (prometheus/health/log/...)
> * jaxrs whiteboard
> * jaxrs whiteboard + jpa (web profile like)
> * http whiteboard only
> * amq
> * amq + jpa
> * kafka
> * kafka + jpa
> * pulsar
> * pulsar + jpa
> * ...
> (and all potential matrix)
>
> Since features were designed to avoid that I think it makes sens to avoid to 
> go that path, it would also be consistent with the cloud spirit - even if the 
> move is not actual most companies target some cloud mindset, in particular a 
> better dep control - which means lighter distros.
>
>
> Hope it makes sense.
>
> Romain Manni-Bucau
> @rmannibucau |  Blog | Old Blog | Github | LinkedIn | Book
>
>
> Le jeu. 19 janv. 2023 à 09:27, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  a 
> écrit :
>>
>> Hi Romain,
>>
>> It's a request to move "natively" to Karaf: most SMX users already
>> moved to Karaf, but they asked for a ready to go distribution. The few
>> SMX uses are looking for a similar distribution in Karaf (just to
>> avoid creating a distribution themselves).
>>
>> So, I see more as a new distribution in the Karaf OSGi runtime project
>> than a new subproject.
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 1:49 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi JB,
>> >
>> > Is there a community behind or did people already moved to Karaf so this is
>> > just about killing smix project officially.
>> >
>> > Trying to see if it is mainly about having really itests and enriching
>> > features.xml (theorically nothing new) or creating a new distro and almost
>> > a subproject.
>> >
>> >
>> > Le mer. 18 janv. 2023 à 13:44, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  a
>> > écrit :
>> >
>> > > Hi guys,
>> > >
>> > > The ServiceMix community is discussing about moving most of the SMX
>> > > parts into Karaf (the useful parts ;) ).
>> > >
>> > > As part of this move, the "main" ServiceMix distribution is mainly a
>> > > Karaf assembly.
>> > >
>> > > Currently, we have two distributions: "standard"
>> > > (apache-karaf-x.x.x.tar.gz) and "minimal"
>> > > (apache-karaf-minimal-x.x.x.tar.gz).
>> > >
>> > > I propose to add a new distribution (in assemblies):
>> > > apache-karaf-integration-x.x.x.tar.gz containing ready to go
>> > > Karaf/Camel/CXF/ActiveMQ smooth integration.
>> > > Concretely, it means:
>> > > - we will have integration features repository XML
>> > > - we will have a distribution based on this features repository
>> > > - we will have itest on this distribution with the best coverage we can
>> > >
>> > > If there is no objection, I will create the Jira and create a PR (as I
>> > > have almost all ready :)).
>> > >
>> > > Thoughts ?
>> > >
>> > > Regards
>> > > JB
>> > >

Re: [PROPOSAL] Create integration (ServiceMix like) distribution in Karaf OSGi runtime

[Romain Manni-Bucau]

Hi JB,

Whereas I can understand the intent I also see it will be hard because:

1. Default distro never matches well (even smix got custom distro)
2. Features are there for that exact need

If I rephrase my point I guess the request looks more like "get us back
what vendors abandon" but this was mainly about support and contracts, here
we'll not get that so it looks to me we already provide that: karaf +
features  (+ optionally custom build if really needed).
Not sticking to that sounds like you will get like hundreds of distro -
without thinking too hard I see:
* cloud one (prometheus/health/log/...)
* jaxrs whiteboard
* jaxrs whiteboard + jpa (web profile like)
* http whiteboard only
* amq
* amq + jpa
* kafka
* kafka + jpa
* pulsar
* pulsar + jpa
* ...
(and all potential matrix)

Since features were designed to avoid that I think it makes sens to avoid
to go that path, it would also be consistent with the cloud spirit - even
if the move is not actual most companies target some cloud mindset, in
particular a better dep control - which means lighter distros.


Hope it makes sense.

Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau  |  Blog
 | Old Blog
 | Github  |
LinkedIn  | Book



Le jeu. 19 janv. 2023 à 09:27, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  a
écrit :

> Hi Romain,
>
> It's a request to move "natively" to Karaf: most SMX users already
> moved to Karaf, but they asked for a ready to go distribution. The few
> SMX uses are looking for a similar distribution in Karaf (just to
> avoid creating a distribution themselves).
>
> So, I see more as a new distribution in the Karaf OSGi runtime project
> than a new subproject.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 1:49 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hi JB,
> >
> > Is there a community behind or did people already moved to Karaf so this
> is
> > just about killing smix project officially.
> >
> > Trying to see if it is mainly about having really itests and enriching
> > features.xml (theorically nothing new) or creating a new distro and
> almost
> > a subproject.
> >
> >
> > Le mer. 18 janv. 2023 à 13:44, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  a
> > écrit :
> >
> > > Hi guys,
> > >
> > > The ServiceMix community is discussing about moving most of the SMX
> > > parts into Karaf (the useful parts ;) ).
> > >
> > > As part of this move, the "main" ServiceMix distribution is mainly a
> > > Karaf assembly.
> > >
> > > Currently, we have two distributions: "standard"
> > > (apache-karaf-x.x.x.tar.gz) and "minimal"
> > > (apache-karaf-minimal-x.x.x.tar.gz).
> > >
> > > I propose to add a new distribution (in assemblies):
> > > apache-karaf-integration-x.x.x.tar.gz containing ready to go
> > > Karaf/Camel/CXF/ActiveMQ smooth integration.
> > > Concretely, it means:
> > > - we will have integration features repository XML
> > > - we will have a distribution based on this features repository
> > > - we will have itest on this distribution with the best coverage we can
> > >
> > > If there is no objection, I will create the Jira and create a PR (as I
> > > have almost all ready :)).
> > >
> > > Thoughts ?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > JB
> > >
>

Re: [PROPOSAL] Create integration (ServiceMix like) distribution in Karaf OSGi runtime

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi Romain,

It's a request to move "natively" to Karaf: most SMX users already
moved to Karaf, but they asked for a ready to go distribution. The few
SMX uses are looking for a similar distribution in Karaf (just to
avoid creating a distribution themselves).

So, I see more as a new distribution in the Karaf OSGi runtime project
than a new subproject.

Regards
JB

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 1:49 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
 wrote:
>
> Hi JB,
>
> Is there a community behind or did people already moved to Karaf so this is
> just about killing smix project officially.
>
> Trying to see if it is mainly about having really itests and enriching
> features.xml (theorically nothing new) or creating a new distro and almost
> a subproject.
>
>
> Le mer. 18 janv. 2023 à 13:44, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  a
> écrit :
>
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > The ServiceMix community is discussing about moving most of the SMX
> > parts into Karaf (the useful parts ;) ).
> >
> > As part of this move, the "main" ServiceMix distribution is mainly a
> > Karaf assembly.
> >
> > Currently, we have two distributions: "standard"
> > (apache-karaf-x.x.x.tar.gz) and "minimal"
> > (apache-karaf-minimal-x.x.x.tar.gz).
> >
> > I propose to add a new distribution (in assemblies):
> > apache-karaf-integration-x.x.x.tar.gz containing ready to go
> > Karaf/Camel/CXF/ActiveMQ smooth integration.
> > Concretely, it means:
> > - we will have integration features repository XML
> > - we will have a distribution based on this features repository
> > - we will have itest on this distribution with the best coverage we can
> >
> > If there is no objection, I will create the Jira and create a PR (as I
> > have almost all ready :)).
> >
> > Thoughts ?
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >

Re: [PROPOSAL] Create integration (ServiceMix like) distribution in Karaf OSGi runtime

[Ephemeris Lappis]

+1

I think this could be a good solution to get a "ready to use" platform 
as SMX was. Many customers and I had been using SMX for years, for this 
rich integrated quality.


Nevertheless, I'm not sure this will be a "miracle" solution. My last 
and current works are all about migrating a customer's applications 
system from a very old RedHat Fuse (some kind of complex system based on 
SMX) to a "hand made" platform based on the last Karaf and Camel 
versions (ActiveMQ is also used, but will be deployed as a separate 
middle-ware), building our own features to provide what was, more or 
less, out of the shelf in SMX.


This is a rather painful work, but doing that we aim to be able to 
maintain Karaf, Camel  and other components depending on out needs, 
upgrading what is necessary when kit's necessary.


I remember in the past having working on a failed project for replacing 
the Camel version in SMX, that was not so easy as it looked like.


What upgrading strategy do you imagine for Karaf, Camel, CXF, etc. ? 
Migrating from our old Camel 2.X to 3.X we discovered a lot of 
differences (small ones or bigger ones), deprecated or removed 
components... Do you plan to provide with each last Karaf, the last Camel ?


I'm going to follow up your discussion on this topic...


Ephemeris Lappis

Le 18/01/2023 à 13:44, Jean-Baptiste Onofré a écrit :

Hi guys,

The ServiceMix community is discussing about moving most of the SMX
parts into Karaf (the useful parts ;) ).

As part of this move, the "main" ServiceMix distribution is mainly a
Karaf assembly.

Currently, we have two distributions: "standard"
(apache-karaf-x.x.x.tar.gz) and "minimal"
(apache-karaf-minimal-x.x.x.tar.gz).

I propose to add a new distribution (in assemblies):
apache-karaf-integration-x.x.x.tar.gz containing ready to go
Karaf/Camel/CXF/ActiveMQ smooth integration.
Concretely, it means:
- we will have integration features repository XML
- we will have a distribution based on this features repository
- we will have itest on this distribution with the best coverage we can

If there is no objection, I will create the Jira and create a PR (as I
have almost all ready :)).

Thoughts ?

Regards
JB


--
Cet e-mail a été vérifié par le logiciel antivirus d'Avast.
www.avast.com

Re: [PROPOSAL] Create integration (ServiceMix like) distribution in Karaf OSGi runtime

[Nicolas Filotto]

+1 (non-binding)

From: Jean-Baptiste Onofr? 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2023 13:44
To: dev ; user ; 
d...@servicemix.apache.org ; 
us...@servicemix.apache.org 
Subject: [PROPOSAL] Create integration (ServiceMix like) distribution in Karaf 
OSGi runtime

Hi guys,

The ServiceMix community is discussing about moving most of the SMX
parts into Karaf (the useful parts ;) ).

As part of this move, the "main" ServiceMix distribution is mainly a
Karaf assembly.

Currently, we have two distributions: "standard"
(apache-karaf-x.x.x.tar.gz) and "minimal"
(apache-karaf-minimal-x.x.x.tar.gz).

I propose to add a new distribution (in assemblies):
apache-karaf-integration-x.x.x.tar.gz containing ready to go
Karaf/Camel/CXF/ActiveMQ smooth integration.
Concretely, it means:
- we will have integration features repository XML
- we will have a distribution based on this features repository
- we will have itest on this distribution with the best coverage we can

If there is no objection, I will create the Jira and create a PR (as I
have almost all ready :)).

Thoughts ?

Regards
JB

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Create integration (ServiceMix like) distribution in Karaf OSGi runtime

[fpapon]

Sounds good.

+1

regards,

François

On 18/01/2023 13:44, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:

Hi guys,

The ServiceMix community is discussing about moving most of the SMX
parts into Karaf (the useful parts ;) ).

As part of this move, the "main" ServiceMix distribution is mainly a
Karaf assembly.

Currently, we have two distributions: "standard"
(apache-karaf-x.x.x.tar.gz) and "minimal"
(apache-karaf-minimal-x.x.x.tar.gz).

I propose to add a new distribution (in assemblies):
apache-karaf-integration-x.x.x.tar.gz containing ready to go
Karaf/Camel/CXF/ActiveMQ smooth integration.
Concretely, it means:
- we will have integration features repository XML
- we will have a distribution based on this features repository
- we will have itest on this distribution with the best coverage we can

If there is no objection, I will create the Jira and create a PR (as I
have almost all ready :)).

Thoughts ?

Regards
JB


--
--
François

Re: [PROPOSAL] Create integration (ServiceMix like) distribution in Karaf OSGi runtime

[Romain Manni-Bucau]

Hi JB,

Is there a community behind or did people already moved to Karaf so this is
just about killing smix project officially.

Trying to see if it is mainly about having really itests and enriching
features.xml (theorically nothing new) or creating a new distro and almost
a subproject.


Le mer. 18 janv. 2023 à 13:44, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  a
écrit :

> Hi guys,
>
> The ServiceMix community is discussing about moving most of the SMX
> parts into Karaf (the useful parts ;) ).
>
> As part of this move, the "main" ServiceMix distribution is mainly a
> Karaf assembly.
>
> Currently, we have two distributions: "standard"
> (apache-karaf-x.x.x.tar.gz) and "minimal"
> (apache-karaf-minimal-x.x.x.tar.gz).
>
> I propose to add a new distribution (in assemblies):
> apache-karaf-integration-x.x.x.tar.gz containing ready to go
> Karaf/Camel/CXF/ActiveMQ smooth integration.
> Concretely, it means:
> - we will have integration features repository XML
> - we will have a distribution based on this features repository
> - we will have itest on this distribution with the best coverage we can
>
> If there is no objection, I will create the Jira and create a PR (as I
> have almost all ready :)).
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> Regards
> JB
>

Re: [PROPOSAL] Create integration (ServiceMix like) distribution in Karaf OSGi runtime

[Grzegorz Grzybek]

Hello

I don't know much about SMX distributions (except SMX bundles), but having
a Karaf distro with ready-to-use Camel + CXF + ActiveMQ sounds like a good
idea.

regards
Grzegorz Grzybek

śr., 18 sty 2023 o 13:44 Jean-Baptiste Onofré  napisał(a):

> Hi guys,
>
> The ServiceMix community is discussing about moving most of the SMX
> parts into Karaf (the useful parts ;) ).
>
> As part of this move, the "main" ServiceMix distribution is mainly a
> Karaf assembly.
>
> Currently, we have two distributions: "standard"
> (apache-karaf-x.x.x.tar.gz) and "minimal"
> (apache-karaf-minimal-x.x.x.tar.gz).
>
> I propose to add a new distribution (in assemblies):
> apache-karaf-integration-x.x.x.tar.gz containing ready to go
> Karaf/Camel/CXF/ActiveMQ smooth integration.
> Concretely, it means:
> - we will have integration features repository XML
> - we will have a distribution based on this features repository
> - we will have itest on this distribution with the best coverage we can
>
> If there is no objection, I will create the Jira and create a PR (as I
> have almost all ready :)).
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> Regards
> JB
>

[PROPOSAL] Create integration (ServiceMix like) distribution in Karaf OSGi runtime

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi guys,

The ServiceMix community is discussing about moving most of the SMX
parts into Karaf (the useful parts ;) ).

As part of this move, the "main" ServiceMix distribution is mainly a
Karaf assembly.

Currently, we have two distributions: "standard"
(apache-karaf-x.x.x.tar.gz) and "minimal"
(apache-karaf-minimal-x.x.x.tar.gz).

I propose to add a new distribution (in assemblies):
apache-karaf-integration-x.x.x.tar.gz containing ready to go
Karaf/Camel/CXF/ActiveMQ smooth integration.
Concretely, it means:
- we will have integration features repository XML
- we will have a distribution based on this features repository
- we will have itest on this distribution with the best coverage we can

If there is no objection, I will create the Jira and create a PR (as I
have almost all ready :)).

Thoughts ?

Regards
JB