[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=16305918#comment-16305918 ] Erick Erickson commented on SOLR-7733: -- [~ctargett] Ugh. I started actually looking at all the places there's any parameter "optimize" and it's ugly. See SOLR-11803. Even using forceMerge rather than optimize on the URL is more than I want to put into this JIRA which is just about removing the temptation from the UI. Actually I don't see any urgency in changing optimize to forceMerge as far as any of the parameters and the like are concerned, now that it's not so tempting and anyone looking at the docs will see warnings if they go digging. > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: Admin UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, 6.0 >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Erick Erickson >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch, SOLR-7733.patch, SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.4.14#64029) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=16222545#comment-16222545 ] Erick Erickson commented on SOLR-7733: -- Thanks David, you're absolutely correct. Depending on how LUCENE-7976 falls out this may or may not go forward. If that JIRA causes forceMerge to respect max segment sizes, then much of my angst goes away so I'm holding this up until we get that resolved. I think both of these JIRAS should be in the same release. > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: Admin UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, 6.0 >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Erick Erickson >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch, SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.4.14#64029) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=16222524#comment-16222524 ] David Smiley commented on SOLR-7733: Looking at your patch, +1 except one small mistake: bq. TIP: Do not elect to optimize your index unless and until you have hard evidence that it will significantly improve your indexing performance. I think you mean, "significantly improve your search performance." It will hurt indexing performance :-) > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: Admin UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, 6.0 >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Erick Erickson >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch, SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.4.14#64029) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=16215455#comment-16215455 ] Erick Erickson commented on SOLR-7733: -- bq: parameter is actually named "optimize" the docs need to refer to it as that... Yeah, unfortunately I'm afraid we'll have to support "optimize" through 8.x, even if we deprecate it now. I was thinking that we could deprecate "optimize" in favor of "forceMerge" in which case I could change the docs to use forceMerge (but still support optimize), but I'm not sure how ambitious I'll be here. > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: Admin UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, 6.0 >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Erick Erickson >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch, SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.4.14#64029) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=16215378#comment-16215378 ] Cassandra Targett commented on SOLR-7733: - bq. I'm targeting a section like that to be part of the resolution to LUCENE-7976 That sounds fine to me. bq. I'm also planning on changing some/all references to optimize to forceMerge to make it less attractive. Also fine, but if there are any cases where the parameter is actually named "optimize" the docs need to refer to it as that. We can't have the docs say it's called "forceMerge" and it's really "optimize". So the docs change can only occur if and when the terminology change is baked into the application and only where it's applicable if optimize is not changed globally. > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: Admin UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, 6.0 >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Erick Erickson >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch, SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.4.14#64029) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=16215363#comment-16215363 ] Erick Erickson commented on SOLR-7733: -- Thanks Cassandra! I'm targeting a section like that to be part of the resolution to LUCENE-7976. Once we resolve how we're going to change TieredMergePolicy, I was planning on a section about how to tune it and mentioning the considerations about why optimize is bad there. I'm also planning on changing some/all references to optimize to forceMerge to make it less attractive. WDYT? > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: Admin UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, 6.0 >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Erick Erickson >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch, SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.4.14#64029) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=16215338#comment-16215338 ] Cassandra Targett commented on SOLR-7733: - The doc changes are mostly fine in the patch, but there are a couple places where it's said something along the lines of "because optimize is a heavy-weight operation...". Since we're working on improving this, can we change one of those (or add something new) to describe in what ways it is heavy-weight (i.e., it requires disk space, etc.)? Then other places could point to that one in case the reader needs more information about what they're getting into with optimize. > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: Admin UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, 6.0 >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Erick Erickson >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch, SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.4.14#64029) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=16215253#comment-16215253 ] Yonik Seeley commented on SOLR-7733: bq. Just had another realization: Before committing this, I'll change the ref guide and change all the "optimize" to "forceMerge". Generic mentions perhaps? The API itself should continue to be documented. I added warnings in the past to the old wiki about expensive rewriting of the entire index, so we should also add something about lack of natural merging away of deletes. > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: Admin UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, 6.0 >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Erick Erickson >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch, SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.4.14#64029) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=16215217#comment-16215217 ] Erick Erickson commented on SOLR-7733: -- Just had another realization: Before committing this, I'll change the ref guide and change all the "optimize" to "forceMerge". I really want this operation to be less tempting. > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: Admin UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, 6.0 >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Erick Erickson >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch, SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.4.14#64029) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=16213048#comment-16213048 ] Yonik Seeley commented on SOLR-7733: Coupling with the Lucene JIRA would seem to only make things more confusing... and my previous points in this JIRA stand. bq. Suggestion: change the discussion in the ref guide for optimize to something like "controlling deleted docs percentage" Not sure I understand... that's not the only thing optimize is for. Some operations happen much more quickly on an optimized index. > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: Admin UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, 6.0 >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Upayavira >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.4.14#64029) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=16213025#comment-16213025 ] Erick Erickson commented on SOLR-7733: -- I think we should couple these together as the Lucene JIRA makes it much more palatable to remove this from the UI and de-emphasize it in the reference guide. Suggestion: change the discussion in the ref guide for optimize to something like "controlling deleted docs percentage" (yuck, but you get the idea) 'cause that's what's really at issue here. > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: Admin UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, 6.0 >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Upayavira >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.4.14#64029) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=16194969#comment-16194969 ] David Smiley commented on SOLR-7733: I vote for getting rid of this button altogether, though I don't object to it staying with the proposed warnings. I've seen the optimize button in a SolrCloud sharded environment cause some failure; I forget the details. > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: Admin UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, 6.0 >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Upayavira >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.4.14#64029) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=16190203#comment-16190203 ] Erick Erickson commented on SOLR-7733: -- It turns out that optimize is actually worse than I thought. See the extended discussion at LUCENE-7976, but the short form is once you start optimizing, you better always optimize or live with lots of deleted docs. TieredMergePolicy has a 5G default max merged segment size. Now say you optimize into a single 100G segment. That 100G segment won't be eligible for merging until it has < 2.5G "live" docs. Which makes me favor the pop-up box with lots of warnings in it about how you better understand the consequences before using this option. > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: Admin UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, 6.0 >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Upayavira >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.4.14#64029) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=15183927#comment-15183927 ] Tomasz Oliwa commented on SOLR-7733: The proposed renaming into "Force Merge" or similar sounds good. A red circle with a diagonal line through for the status "Optimized" looks quite inviting to click on from an user interface design point of view, without really communicating what this entails. > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, master >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Upayavira >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=15083041#comment-15083041
]
Jan Høydahl commented on SOLR-7733:
---
The current UI (both classic and Angular) still has a green "Optimized"
checkmark, which seems to always stay green (both on overview page and on core
admin page). Should we get rid of them?
Also, the Angular UI removes the "Optimize" button from the Core Admin page. I
vote for bringing the button back, but with an educational popup
{panel:title=Are you
sure?|borderStyle=dashed|borderColor=#ccc|titleBGColor=#F7D6C1|bgColor=#CE}This
will read and write the *entire index*, merging all documents into one
segment, and can be very expensive{panel}
Related: I have many times missed a {{Commit}} button in the core admin and
collections tabs. What do you think?
> remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
> --
>
> Key: SOLR-7733
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733
> Project: Solr
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: UI
>Affects Versions: 5.3, Trunk
>Reporter: Erick Erickson
>Assignee: Upayavira
>Priority: Minor
> Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch
>
>
> Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we
> think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin
> and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core
> admin screen (was this intentional?).
> My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy
> to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my
> index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it".
> The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized"
> checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the
> "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page
> already has a "Segment Count" entry.
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[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=15083736#comment-15083736 ] Shawn Heisey commented on SOLR-7733: bq. I vote for bringing the button back, but with an educational popup Sounds good to me. If the server is in cloud mode and the button is pressed on a core, the dialog might want to mention that it will in fact optimize the entire collection. There is no way to disable this -- distrib=false is not honored. I thought we had an issue to have optimize on SolrCloud honor distrib=false, but I can't find one. bq. I have many times missed a Commit button in the core admin and collections tabs That would be interesting. Since I am reasonably sure that mechanisms are in place to ignore a commit operation when the index hasn't actually changed, this is probably a safe thing to add, and would be helpful for troubleshooting. > remove/rename "optimize" references in the UI. > -- > > Key: SOLR-7733 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 > Project: Solr > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: UI >Affects Versions: 5.3, Trunk >Reporter: Erick Erickson >Assignee: Upayavira >Priority: Minor > Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch > > > Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we > think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin > and core overview pages? The "optimize" button is already gone from the core > admin screen (was this intentional?). > My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy > to think "Of course I want my index optimized" and "look, this screen says my > index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it". > The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an "optimized" > checkmark, I propose just removing it from the "overview" page and on the > "core admin" page changing it to "Segment Count #". NOTE: the "overview" page > already has a "Segment Count" entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename optimize references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14661785#comment-14661785 ] Walter Underwood commented on SOLR-7733: Force Merge made sense to the Ultraseek customers. We had the same kind of automatic segment merging. I worked on Ultraseek for ten years and force merge was never a big issue for support. We did have people doing it unnecessarily, same as Optimize, but at least we didn't have to explain it. remove/rename optimize references in the UI. -- Key: SOLR-7733 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 Project: Solr Issue Type: Improvement Components: UI Affects Versions: 5.3, Trunk Reporter: Erick Erickson Assignee: Upayavira Priority: Minor Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin and core overview pages? The optimize button is already gone from the core admin screen (was this intentional?). My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy to think Of course I want my index optimized and look, this screen says my index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it. The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an optimized checkmark, I propose just removing it from the overview page and on the core admin page changing it to Segment Count #. NOTE: the overview page already has a Segment Count entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename optimize references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14661357#comment-14661357 ] Aaron Greenspan commented on SOLR-7733: --- I would suggest keeping the button but renaming it Consolidate or Defragment. Whether or not it technically is, this sounds a lot like the way people used to think about disk defragmentation on MS-DOS/Windows 3.1/9x systems. Many people had heard about it almost as a rumor and believed it would serve as a panacea for all of their deeply-rooted registry problems, when it really only needed to be done rarely, had minimal benefits for most, and took a long time. With that context I think the best way to handle it is to keep the button in, give it a descriptive name, and provide accurate information: something like Expected processing time: 30h27m. Expected efficiency gain: 0.05%. No one will waste their time on such a tradeoff unless they have a really good reason, or unless the numbers look reasonable. remove/rename optimize references in the UI. -- Key: SOLR-7733 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 Project: Solr Issue Type: Improvement Components: UI Affects Versions: 5.3, Trunk Reporter: Erick Erickson Assignee: Upayavira Priority: Minor Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin and core overview pages? The optimize button is already gone from the core admin screen (was this intentional?). My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy to think Of course I want my index optimized and look, this screen says my index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it. The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an optimized checkmark, I propose just removing it from the overview page and on the core admin page changing it to Segment Count #. NOTE: the overview page already has a Segment Count entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename optimize references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14660341#comment-14660341 ] Erick Erickson commented on SOLR-7733: -- About educating users I'm just really tired of doing it again and again and again. I suppose putting lots of explanatory text and making it less tempting is really kind of an automated way of doing that education though.. remove/rename optimize references in the UI. -- Key: SOLR-7733 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 Project: Solr Issue Type: Improvement Components: UI Affects Versions: 5.3, Trunk Reporter: Erick Erickson Priority: Minor Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin and core overview pages? The optimize button is already gone from the core admin screen (was this intentional?). My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy to think Of course I want my index optimized and look, this screen says my index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it. The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an optimized checkmark, I propose just removing it from the overview page and on the core admin page changing it to Segment Count #. NOTE: the overview page already has a Segment Count entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename optimize references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14608661#comment-14608661 ] Hoss Man commented on SOLR-7733: Linking related SOLR-3141 where there was much discussion about terminology and backcompat and educating users and sensible default behavior. (i have no comment or opinion about anything expressed in this issue so far -- i have not read most details in this issue so far, i'm just linking the issues so all the relevant details are connected for folks who do have opinions and are willing to follow through on them) remove/rename optimize references in the UI. -- Key: SOLR-7733 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 Project: Solr Issue Type: Improvement Components: UI Affects Versions: 5.3, Trunk Reporter: Erick Erickson Priority: Minor Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin and core overview pages? The optimize button is already gone from the core admin screen (was this intentional?). My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy to think Of course I want my index optimized and look, this screen says my index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it. The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an optimized checkmark, I propose just removing it from the overview page and on the core admin page changing it to Segment Count #. NOTE: the overview page already has a Segment Count entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename optimize references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14605589#comment-14605589 ] Yonik Seeley commented on SOLR-7733: This could just cause confusion about where did optimize go? The issue seems largely one of education. Optimize (or forceMerge) is a valid operation and one that can be called for in certain circumstances. Users need to understand the cost, so they can make the call. I agree we should get rid of any notion/mention of unoptimized though, including the colors Shawn mentions. One alternative to straight out removal is to educate the user right next to the button: This optional operation is very expensive and not normally necessary. It will rewrite the entire index into a single segment OR if we have the index size available: This optional operation is very expensive and not normally necessary. It will rewrite all NNN MB of the index into a single segment remove/rename optimize references in the UI. -- Key: SOLR-7733 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 Project: Solr Issue Type: Improvement Components: UI Affects Versions: 5.3, Trunk Reporter: Erick Erickson Priority: Minor Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin and core overview pages? The optimize button is already gone from the core admin screen (was this intentional?). My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy to think Of course I want my index optimized and look, this screen says my index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it. The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an optimized checkmark, I propose just removing it from the overview page and on the core admin page changing it to Segment Count #. NOTE: the overview page already has a Segment Count entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename optimize references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14605628#comment-14605628 ] Yonik Seeley commented on SOLR-7733: I've never seen the need to rename optimize to forceMerge myself - people will just google and find yeah, optimize was changed to forceMerge. The key is understanding that it's optional, and understanding the cost. remove/rename optimize references in the UI. -- Key: SOLR-7733 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 Project: Solr Issue Type: Improvement Components: UI Affects Versions: 5.3, Trunk Reporter: Erick Erickson Priority: Minor Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin and core overview pages? The optimize button is already gone from the core admin screen (was this intentional?). My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy to think Of course I want my index optimized and look, this screen says my index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it. The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an optimized checkmark, I propose just removing it from the overview page and on the core admin page changing it to Segment Count #. NOTE: the overview page already has a Segment Count entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename optimize references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14605608#comment-14605608 ] Shawn Heisey commented on SOLR-7733: I like Yonik's idea. The best idea I can think of for the button text is Force Merge (Optimize) ... but I worry that this is too long and will make the button enormous and run contrary to the notion of making it less conspicuous. Making it just Force Merge is appealing, but in that case, the note text must mention that this is the new name for optimize. I'm not opposed to simply keeping Optimize, but I do like the idea of taking Lucene's approach and using some variant of forceMerge everywhere, including the admin UI, the update handler, and SolrJ. The idea of including the index size is awesome. I've been wanting a good reason to get SOLR-3990 back in the spotlight. :) remove/rename optimize references in the UI. -- Key: SOLR-7733 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 Project: Solr Issue Type: Improvement Components: UI Affects Versions: 5.3, Trunk Reporter: Erick Erickson Priority: Minor Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin and core overview pages? The optimize button is already gone from the core admin screen (was this intentional?). My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy to think Of course I want my index optimized and look, this screen says my index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it. The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an optimized checkmark, I propose just removing it from the overview page and on the core admin page changing it to Segment Count #. NOTE: the overview page already has a Segment Count entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename optimize references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14605531#comment-14605531 ] Erick Erickson commented on SOLR-7733: -- Yeah, this just removes the admin UI checkmarks, you can still optimize via the regular APIs. And the segment count is in both places now, so people who know what optimize is really doing still have the information available. It's just not as tempting. I mean who _wouldn't_ want an optimized index ;). If we bring the button back, we should name it something else. Force Merge comes to mind. At least that way people might scratch their heads before pressing the button. Maybe with a confirmation box saying do you really want to do this? It make take a long time and is rarely necessary... remove/rename optimize references in the UI. -- Key: SOLR-7733 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 Project: Solr Issue Type: Improvement Components: UI Affects Versions: 5.3, Trunk Reporter: Erick Erickson Priority: Minor Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin and core overview pages? The optimize button is already gone from the core admin screen (was this intentional?). My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy to think Of course I want my index optimized and look, this screen says my index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it. The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an optimized checkmark, I propose just removing it from the overview page and on the core admin page changing it to Segment Count #. NOTE: the overview page already has a Segment Count entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename optimize references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14606155#comment-14606155 ] Upayavira commented on SOLR-7733: - We can have the optimize button pop up a window which has a statement of the kind Yonik mentions, followed by an optimize and a cancel button. remove/rename optimize references in the UI. -- Key: SOLR-7733 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 Project: Solr Issue Type: Improvement Components: UI Affects Versions: 5.3, Trunk Reporter: Erick Erickson Priority: Minor Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin and core overview pages? The optimize button is already gone from the core admin screen (was this intentional?). My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy to think Of course I want my index optimized and look, this screen says my index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it. The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an optimized checkmark, I propose just removing it from the overview page and on the core admin page changing it to Segment Count #. NOTE: the overview page already has a Segment Count entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename optimize references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14604762#comment-14604762 ] Shawn Heisey commented on SOLR-7733: +1. I also think that the red color when it's not optimized tends to reinforce the notion that the index is in a bad state that the user must correct. I still optimize my indexes on a relatively infrequent basis, and would hate to lose the ability to do that, but it doesn't belong in the admin UI. Sometimes the performance consequences from clicking that optimize button are severe. With a large enough SolrCloud installation, the performance impact from a seemingly innocent button click could last for hours. remove/rename optimize references in the UI. -- Key: SOLR-7733 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 Project: Solr Issue Type: Improvement Components: UI Affects Versions: 5.3, Trunk Reporter: Erick Erickson Priority: Minor Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin and core overview pages? The optimize button is already gone from the core admin screen (was this intentional?). My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy to think Of course I want my index optimized and look, this screen says my index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it. The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an optimized checkmark, I propose just removing it from the overview page and on the core admin page changing it to Segment Count #. NOTE: the overview page already has a Segment Count entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename optimize references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14604873#comment-14604873 ] Upayavira commented on SOLR-7733: - If you were gonna go a little further, you could look in the controller and see if there's any logic preparing data for the view that isn't needed anymore. remove/rename optimize references in the UI. -- Key: SOLR-7733 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 Project: Solr Issue Type: Improvement Components: UI Affects Versions: 5.3, Trunk Reporter: Erick Erickson Priority: Minor Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin and core overview pages? The optimize button is already gone from the core admin screen (was this intentional?). My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy to think Of course I want my index optimized and look, this screen says my index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it. The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an optimized checkmark, I propose just removing it from the overview page and on the core admin page changing it to Segment Count #. NOTE: the overview page already has a Segment Count entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
[jira] [Commented] (SOLR-7733) remove/rename optimize references in the UI.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14604872#comment-14604872 ] Upayavira commented on SOLR-7733: - Patch looks good to me, go for it!! remove/rename optimize references in the UI. -- Key: SOLR-7733 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-7733 Project: Solr Issue Type: Improvement Components: UI Affects Versions: 5.3, Trunk Reporter: Erick Erickson Priority: Minor Attachments: SOLR-7733.patch Since optimizing indexes is kind of a special circumstance thing, what do we think about removing (or renaming) optimize-related stuff on the core admin and core overview pages? The optimize button is already gone from the core admin screen (was this intentional?). My personal feeling is that we should remove this entirely as it's too easy to think Of course I want my index optimized and look, this screen says my index isn't optimized, that must mean I should optimize it. The core admin screen and the core overview page both have an optimized checkmark, I propose just removing it from the overview page and on the core admin page changing it to Segment Count #. NOTE: the overview page already has a Segment Count entry. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@lucene.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@lucene.apache.org
