Re: [Marketing] Re: FSF to fork OOo over java
On Wed, 11 May 2005 14:07, Adam Moore wrote: > Daniel I'll make this my last. Moi aussi... > Alex I think you misread my post. It > was directed towards DC Parris. I mainly agree with you. Actually, I was responding to the thread, not any one specific individual. Tacking my response on to the latest post on the topic was the simplest way... And to Daniel - You are certainly NOT one of the "rat-bag fringe" elements I was referring to. Quite the opposite in fact. > -- Alex Fisher Co-Lead, CD-ROM Project OpenOffice.org Marketing Community Contact Australia/New Zealand http://distribution.openoffice.org/cdrom/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: FSF to fork OOo over java
Daniel I'll make this my last. Alex I think you misread my post. It was directed towards DC Parris. I mainly agree with you. On 5/10/05, Alex Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 11 May 2005 10:10, Adam Moore wrote: > > > > > > > It replaced my Windows. Our organization uses no non-libre software. > > > Nor will we. We will not sacrifice our freedom for some hotsy-totsy > > > technology. If it's not libre it's useless. > > > > Why is it useless? What about open source software makes you more > > free than other software. Does other software not let you get your > > work done? > > To be completely honest, I don't really give a s%*# about either aspect. > Provided software is not exorbitantly priced (value for money), and does not > have draconian licensing terms (I can install/rte-install it on all my > machines that I currently have, or may upgrade to in the future), is stable > and reasonably easy to administer (which IMO rules out Windows), then I'll > use it. I use Linux simply because of its stability and powerful > administration tools. not simply because it is free (in either sense). For my > uses, it is the most suitable. > > As an aside, I'll be upgrading one of my machines over the week-end. The old > one will become a local file server and FTP/rsync server. It will initially > run Linux, but will probably be changed to run one of the BSD systems, > because for some of the usage I have in mind, BSD is more suitable than > Linux. > > > > So you have no Macromedia Flash, Shockwave, > > Only the plugins. If I were running Windows, they would still not be on my > box, since IMO they are way over-priced, and I don't really like the license > terms. If I need a flash presentation, I have OO.o Impress > > > adobe acrobat, > > Reader only. I have no need for anything else, since I have OO.o (or Scribus) > for creating PDF documents > > > or anything > > else like that on your computer? I would think it would make for a > > less enjoyable computing experience. > > What, having them on your machine would make for a less enjoyable experience? > I guess worrying about the licenses and whether you could afford to pay for > the next version /could/ detract > > I personally fail to understand the hoo-hah relating to Java. While it is not > Open source, the licensing is one of the most liberal non-OSS ones around, it > is free and freely available, the API is readily available and documented... > > It seems that certain elements in the FOSS movement are concerned that they > are losing some of their clout and influence. From my POV, they are behaving > like wannabe dictators. No matter how much OSS may owe them in respect of > their contributions to where we are now, they do *not* have the right to > dictate what technologies should or should not be used by Open source > projects. Unfortunately, the most vocal of them (ESR in particular) are fast > losing my sympathy. If the keep carrying on like rat-bag fringe loonies, they > will end up becoming a joke, and lose most (if not all) of their credibility. > > -- > Alex Fisher > > Co-Lead, CD-ROM Project > > OpenOffice.org Marketing > Community Contact > Australia/New Zealand > > http://distribution.openoffice.org/cdrom/ > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- Adam Moore Community Volunteer OOo blog: AdamMooreOOo.blogspot.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: FSF to fork OOo over java
Alex Fisher wrote: [BIG SNIP] Guys, will you please take this to the social list? And lets try to keep things civil and not insult a huge part of the FOSS community. There really are good reasons why someone might take a strong stance about not using any non-Free software. These have been discussed to exhaustion for 20 years, and don't need to be re-discussed here. If you feel compelled to do so, please do it on the appropriate list. For what it's worth, I do avoid using non-free software, and I believe I have strong solid reasons for that. I hope you won't think I am a loonie because of my that. And I hope Alex doesn't really think those nasty things about me simply because I believe that FOSS licenses are important. Since I am not imposing anything on you, I hope we can simply agree to disagree. If you are interested to know how I decide which non-free software I use and which I don't, I can discuss my reasons on the social list. But not here. Thank you for your understanding. Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: FSF to fork OOo over java
On Wed, 11 May 2005 10:10, Adam Moore wrote: > > > > It replaced my Windows. Our organization uses no non-libre software. > > Nor will we. We will not sacrifice our freedom for some hotsy-totsy > > technology. If it's not libre it's useless. > > Why is it useless? What about open source software makes you more > free than other software. Does other software not let you get your > work done? To be completely honest, I don't really give a s%*# about either aspect. Provided software is not exorbitantly priced (value for money), and does not have draconian licensing terms (I can install/rte-install it on all my machines that I currently have, or may upgrade to in the future), is stable and reasonably easy to administer (which IMO rules out Windows), then I'll use it. I use Linux simply because of its stability and powerful administration tools. not simply because it is free (in either sense). For my uses, it is the most suitable. As an aside, I'll be upgrading one of my machines over the week-end. The old one will become a local file server and FTP/rsync server. It will initially run Linux, but will probably be changed to run one of the BSD systems, because for some of the usage I have in mind, BSD is more suitable than Linux. > > So you have no Macromedia Flash, Shockwave, Only the plugins. If I were running Windows, they would still not be on my box, since IMO they are way over-priced, and I don't really like the license terms. If I need a flash presentation, I have OO.o Impress > adobe acrobat, Reader only. I have no need for anything else, since I have OO.o (or Scribus) for creating PDF documents > or anything > else like that on your computer? I would think it would make for a > less enjoyable computing experience. What, having them on your machine would make for a less enjoyable experience? I guess worrying about the licenses and whether you could afford to pay for the next version /could/ detract I personally fail to understand the hoo-hah relating to Java. While it is not Open source, the licensing is one of the most liberal non-OSS ones around, it is free and freely available, the API is readily available and documented... It seems that certain elements in the FOSS movement are concerned that they are losing some of their clout and influence. From my POV, they are behaving like wannabe dictators. No matter how much OSS may owe them in respect of their contributions to where we are now, they do *not* have the right to dictate what technologies should or should not be used by Open source projects. Unfortunately, the most vocal of them (ESR in particular) are fast losing my sympathy. If the keep carrying on like rat-bag fringe loonies, they will end up becoming a joke, and lose most (if not all) of their credibility. -- Alex Fisher Co-Lead, CD-ROM Project OpenOffice.org Marketing Community Contact Australia/New Zealand http://distribution.openoffice.org/cdrom/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Craig's List post of the week
Ben, congrats on getting post of the week for this offer! -Original Message- From: Benjamin Horst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: May 6, 2005 4:58 PM To: dev@marketing.openoffice.org Subject: [Marketing] Craig's List post of the week http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/cps/71930047.html --- "The Tiny Guide to OpenOffice.org" now available! http://www.solidoffice.com/tinyguide/ Free Culture and Open Source: www.solidoffice.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Microsoft "Metro" and OpenOffice
Hi Ben and others, snip... quoting Ben Horst: I've been collecting articles about universities that have switched to OpenOffice on my site at www.solidoffice.com, and there will be many more. MS Office cannot win people back from OOo, the price/performance is simply not there. Ben, I just now am reading about your idea to offer OOo services on Craigs list. That is a good idea, but you had concerns about spamming. I don't know Craig's lists' rules, but DIYparts.org has a section specially for the delivery of services, whether free or paid. I would encourage Solveig Haugland and Ian Lynch and anyone else who would like to offer services associated with computers to post their services on the DIYparts.org website. The idea here is that we want to offer free computers to anyone who wants them, whether Windows, Linux, or Mac. Of course, we are hoping that people will install Linux on their old computers, but if it is proprietary software that ends up riding these new boxes to their new homes, then so be it. Better than having those boxes go into landfills. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: FSF to fork OOo over java
> It replaced my Windows. Our organization uses no non-libre software. Nor > will we. We will not sacrifice our freedom for some hotsy-totsy technology. > If it's not libre it's useless. > Why is it useless? What about open source software makes you more free than other software. Does other software not let you get your work done? So you have no Macromedia Flash, Shockwave, adobe acrobat, or anything else like that on your computer? I would think it would make for a less enjoyable computing experience. -- Adam Moore Community Volunteer OOo blog: AdamMooreOOo.blogspot.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: FSF to fork OOo over java
-- Original Message - Subject: [Marketing] Re: FSF to fork OOo over java Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 16:27:22 -0400 From: Chad Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: dev@marketing.openoffice.org On 5/9/05, Alexandro Colorado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think this is taking out of context. RMS don't want to fork it but FSF. > RMS > might want to not use Java all together. However the GCJ project is under > the > FSF with another leader developer and I think HE might be the one who want > to > push GCJ into the core of OOo. RMS is the one to whom the email is pointed. RMS is the one who is taking volunteers. It would seem, then, that RMS is the one that wants to fork it. All this "non-free" shit is riduculus, and is one of the reasons Linux will never replace Windows. -Chad Smith - It replaced my Windows. Our organization uses no non-libre software. Nor will we. We will not sacrifice our freedom for some hotsy-totsy technology. If it's not libre it's useless. Don -- DC Parris Matheteuo Christian Fellowship [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://matheteuo.org/ Free software is like God's love - you can share it with anyone anywhere anytime! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: FSF to fork OOo over java
On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 06:35:43PM -0400, Sam Hiser wrote: > On Tue, 2005-05-10 at 13:35 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 11:33:55PM +0300, Alexandro Colorado wrote: > > > >wants to fork it. All this "non-free" shit is riduculus, and is one > > > >of the reasons Linux will never replace Windows. > > > > > > The only reason why I want Linux to replace windows is because is FREE. > > > I really > > > wouldn't give a crap about it if Linux (and it's software) was non-free. > > > > This is a very important point. If Linux weren't FREE it wouldn't even > > be what it is. The "free" part is the most important piece. > > You're distorting the point. It's silly and irrelevant to separate > them. It's Free and free and is where it is because together those > things are powerful. Oh, actually I didn't mean to separate them. I was referring to the freedom to see and modify the code in both cases where I said FREE and "free". The main point being that the freedom to distribute and modify is *the* reason why Linux and other such software *will* dominate (and it already is). Free(dom) is what makes the free (price tag) possible--in that sense it is not silly to separate them. If OO.o were simply free of cost, it would be much less of an appealing project/product. > > > > > ak > > > > > > > > -- > > > Alexandro Colorado > > > Co-Leader of OpenOffice.org Spanish > > > http://es.openoffice.org/ > > > > > > > > > > >-Chad Smith > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- > http://www.hiser-adelstein.com > (212) 372-3361 > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: FSF to fork OOo over java
On Tue, 2005-05-10 at 13:35 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 11:33:55PM +0300, Alexandro Colorado wrote: > > >wants to fork it. All this "non-free" shit is riduculus, and is one > > >of the reasons Linux will never replace Windows. > > > > The only reason why I want Linux to replace windows is because is FREE. > > I really > > wouldn't give a crap about it if Linux (and it's software) was non-free. > > This is a very important point. If Linux weren't FREE it wouldn't even > be what it is. The "free" part is the most important piece. You're distorting the point. It's silly and irrelevant to separate them. It's Free and free and is where it is because together those things are powerful. > > ak > > > > > -- > > Alexandro Colorado > > Co-Leader of OpenOffice.org Spanish > > http://es.openoffice.org/ > > > > > > > >-Chad Smith > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.hiser-adelstein.com (212) 372-3361 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: FSF to fork OOo over java
On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 11:33:55PM +0300, Alexandro Colorado wrote: > >wants to fork it. All this "non-free" shit is riduculus, and is one > >of the reasons Linux will never replace Windows. > > The only reason why I want Linux to replace windows is because is FREE. > I really > wouldn't give a crap about it if Linux (and it's software) was non-free. This is a very important point. If Linux weren't FREE it wouldn't even be what it is. The "free" part is the most important piece. ak > > -- > Alexandro Colorado > Co-Leader of OpenOffice.org Spanish > http://es.openoffice.org/ > > > > >-Chad Smith > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: FSF to fork OOo over java
Chad Smith wrote: All this "non-free" shit is riduculus, The issue is complicated. On the one hand, the "non-free" thing can get out of hand IMHO, so I see your point. But in other cases, it has solid merit, so I see /their/ point. Knowing where to draw the line is left as an exercise to the reader :-) and is one of the reasons Linux will never replace Windows. I can't predict the future, but I hope you're wrong. :-) But again, I see your point. Cheers, Daniel. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: FSF to fork OOo over java
wants to fork it. All this "non-free" shit is riduculus, and is one of the reasons Linux will never replace Windows. The only reason why I want Linux to replace windows is because is FREE. I really wouldn't give a crap about it if Linux (and it's software) was non-free. -- Alexandro Colorado Co-Leader of OpenOffice.org Spanish http://es.openoffice.org/ -Chad Smith - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Marketing] Re: FSF to fork OOo over java
On 5/9/05, Alexandro Colorado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think this is taking out of context. RMS don't want to fork it but FSF. > RMS > might want to not use Java all together. However the GCJ project is under > the > FSF with another leader developer and I think HE might be the one who want > to > push GCJ into the core of OOo. RMS is the one to whom the email is pointed. RMS is the one who is taking volunteers. It would seem, then, that RMS is the one that wants to fork it. All this "non-free" shit is riduculus, and is one of the reasons Linux will never replace Windows. -Chad Smith - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
