Re: [Marketing] Re: Brilliant marketing campaign
*Please*, quote correctly ... Chad Smith a écrit : Louis is the Community Manager.- http://www.openoffice.org/lspintro.html He gave me permission to use the logo and the look of the site. Like said Bernard : Louis was certainly not aware about the content of your site when you asked. You are not promoting the project correctly, and to promote a project like OpenOffice.org, you have to respect rules. The rules? There are rules to telling people about OpenOffice.org? Bull. There are no rules for supporting OpenOffice.org. One of OpenOffice.org Marketing project objective is do OpenOffice.org promotion. This must be organized, and follow strict rules : the content is never random, and every sentence must be precisely defined, located, ..etc. e.g. if I need to promote Mac port officially, I'll ask. I always ask advices, or opinions. What you do is personnal site only, just your opinion, so change the look, and remove the OpoenOfifce.org logo. I want to say Use OpenOffice.org if you are on Linux or Windows - use NeoOffice if you are on Mac. There's nothing you can do to stop me. One more time, you're promoting a derivated product, using agressive words against our work, concerning Mac port. This is not correct. Good for you. You can't stop me from promoting it. And you won't. What do you mean ? Some people are helping you ? Change the appearance, and remove the logo first. If I want my site to look like Microsoft's site - I can do that. And they'd have no right to make me change it, especially if Bill Gates gave me permission, and especially if I put up a disclaimer. I may change the site - but you can't tell me to change the site. I'll ask the Community Council, But we are working hard to make a true Mac application, and you have not the right to write what you wrote about our work : you don't respect us. I don't know where you are from, but as an American, I have the right to say whatever I want. I see do that too. I have every right in the world to criticize any project or any part of a project I please. Just as you have every right to criticize my website - which you don't seem to have a problem doing. One more time, what I disagree is the fact you are using OpenOffice.org logo and look to promote other products. And until you finish it - I will tell my fellow Mac users to use NeoOffice. If so, change the look of your site, and remove OpenOffice.org logo. program - then that's the one I'm going to support. Mac OS X comes with Java pre-installed by default. X11 is a special thing you have to add yourself from the DVD. If it's on the hard drive when I buy the computer - it is native. Java is native to Mac OS X. Native means using either Cocoa or Carbon API. So Java is not more native than X11 in this sense. Java is an appearance, needs a lot of ram in runtime, and is a *short term* solution for OpenOffice.org port. What we are doing is a real solution : we start from scratch, more exactly the begining, analyse everything, search a correct design (in engineering terms).This needs a lot of time, resources and organisation. And we have results : the last one is we can use menus, and ATS server for ATSUI works (basically only, but it works). Again, I'm defending a Team work and we are OpenOffice.org project. Neo is not. OpenOffice.org project. Do you understand ? I have to do nothing. I will support OpenOffice.org because it works. My loyalities go as far as the results are there. If OOo stopped working tomorrow - I'd be promoting whatever is left - AbiWord / NeoOffice / ThinkFree Office - whatever. Up to you, really. But WHY do you need to use OpenOffice.org logo and OpenOffice.org project look ? This is lie, cheat, and leads to confuse Mac users. I'm not going to tell people to use a program that is inferior to another. OOo X11 is inferior to NeoOffice. It's slower, Not true. You perfectly know Neo uses Java, and Java needs a lot of RAM, and will always leads to slow down the runtime. Another example : font rendering using X11 is several times faster than ATS server rendering. If we cannot do the exact same rendering using X11 (but this is possible), this is simply because of Apple Patents about kerning and hinting (not authorized when using X11). harder to install, Yes, and no : OpenOffice.org installs using Drag and Drop. How do simplier ? The problem is X11, since Apple complicates the task with X11 not installed by default. Yes, X11 is problematic for us. uglier, haha : just read the code :-) and not native looking at all. For the look, we use Aqua colors, since several months. When you have it released - then I will promote that. I will not promote the X11 port as long as there is a better alternative. Why don't you encourage objectively our work *now* ? -- ericb at openoffice |dot_ org Francophone OpenOffice.org Commmunity developer (Linux PPC / Mac
Re: [Marketing] another digg for Metro ads?
Hi, I'll forward the links to the NLC list. Finn, Ben, I'm lame and lazy, could you send me or send it directly to the NLC list a collection of pointers summarizing the project and some links about the ad itself? Thanks, Charles. John McCreesh a écrit : On Thu, 2006-06-29 at 20:34 +0200, Finn Gruwier Larsen wrote: Why don't we make this an international campaign? If it can be done in New York, it can be done everywhere! Any volunteers? John - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo Mac OS X port - VS - NeoOffice.org
Chad Smith schreef: First of all, I took the logo off the sitet - so you guys can stop whining about that. (Even though I have writen permission from the Community Manager to use it.) Hi all, Why don't we notify Louis about this discussion, and ask his opinion. If something has been done that he whas not aware of when he gave permission, he can take the nessecary steps. Just a question to Chad: What is the extra value of this site? I don't see anyone typing www.whatisopenoffice.org in his browser to learn more about OOo. They will type this in the google searchbar, or any other searchengine, and probably, be pointed to the OOo project site. So you will have to do heavy promoting of your site to get visistors. Second: allmost all content and links (exept the related sites bit) point to the OOo project site. Where is the added value of your site? Third: i see you have several google adsense pieces, and a make a donation button. To where goes the profit from this advertsing? To the OOo project, or your own pocket? I can understand you would like to get the cost of hosting back from advertising, hence, if your attitude would be more community minded i would give you free hosting account on our company servers, if you could convince me of the added value that your site has. Thing is: we are all a bit chocked with your egocentric way of working, when the subject is concerning a community effort. All of us think about OOo a little as our own child, since we are all involved in this project, one way or the other. and a little side note: by changing the OOo logo, i think you know your off track here. If you would like to do an effort in promoting OOo, maybe you can do this together with the community, instead of driving your own course. We all have our own agenda, but in a community based project, that is not the way to go. So, like a said in the beginning, why don't we invite Louis to participate in this disccusion, and see what he hase to say? Just my 2 cents, Greetings, Johan B. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Re: Brilliant marketing campaign
On Sat, 2006-07-01 at 05:29 +1000, André Wyrwa wrote: Hi John, [snip] That's why we should get a neutral name for a the current campains button (which can be a link to the actual one). I'll explain in more detail: why.openoffice.org/: ./index.html (page with current campain (almost copy of keepthecar.html)) ./keepthecar.html (page with keep the car campain) ./getlegal.html (page with get legal campain) ./... (and so on) ./images/ ./ooo_current_120x60.png - ooo_keepthecar_120x60.png ./ooo_keepthecar_120x60.png ./ooo_getlegal_120x60.png Now index.html would include two button link markups. The first would be this: a href=http://why.openoffice.org; img src=http://why.openoffice.org/images/ooo_current_120x60.png; border=0 hspace=3 vspace=3 alt=Good Reasons for OpenOffice.org/a OK - I'll buy this. Can you do a ooo_current_120x60.png please? I think everything else is in place. John - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo Mac OS X port - VS - NeoOffice.org
On 7/1/06, Steven Shelton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adam Moore wrote: To reply to the overall thread. Is what he's saying on his own personal website actually up to us? He is in his right to say whatever he wants. That said, if the layout is in a license that doesn't allow other people to use it then we should ask that it be removed as the site does not solely promote the benefits of the OpenOffice.org project. I agree. As far as the content here goes, I think this is rather a silly argument to be having. There is nothing offensive in the Mac portion, although it would be good to include the information that Neo is in alpha stage. It's very clear that he's saying his own personal opinion is that the NeoOffice version is better and easier to install/use than the official port. That's certainly a valid view to express. And he's also right when he says it was listed as a port until extremely recently, and the NeoOffice page actually says it is a free software port of OpenOffice.org to the MacOS X platform. To be honest, I think a lot of this is animosity simply because it's Chad, who in the past has engaged in rather over-the-top commentary and rhetoric. I understand the hostility. (Hell, I had him on my ignore list for quite a while.) But we need to get above the personalities and look at this objectively. I don't see anything content-wise to really gripe about. Chad, your content is your content and you can say whatever you want despite how upset Eric tends to get when people even breath the word neooffice. But I hope you can understand the confusion that's involved when you use a site that looks like OpenOffice.org, but doesn't solely promote it and actually promotes other vendors. In any case I would change the look of your site, because the OO.org site you copied is not the best looking one. I am sure you can certainly do better. Also agreed. The big problem here is that the site originally looked too similar to the main OOo site. That could lead a reasonable person to confuse that site with an official site, disclaimer notwithstanding. The make a donation button creates a huge problem, and you could be looking at some significant legal liability on this, Chad. The button has no clear explanation as to where donations go. From the look/feel/content of the site, I would *think* that these donations go to the OpenOffice.org project, but the PayPal page seems to indicate that they are going to you. You can see how this creates a huge potential for fraud and/or claims of fraud. So now you are going to send the government after me if I don't change the site? This is bullshit. If anyone ever clicked on the make a donation button - I would have deducted my cost and then given the extra to OOo - or used it to promote OOo. I have donated directly, monetarily to OOo and other Open Source projects in the past. And, from a legal standpoint - the disclaimer at the top of the page is plenty, in and of itself, for a defence against anyone who wants to sue me. I have the same button on all of my sites that I put up at my own expense. So far, none of them have been used. But if someone wants to give - they can feel free. That button didn't cost me anything, so I figured why not. Ever heard of GiveBobaDollar.com? There is nothing illegal about letting people give you money. But, good god - if you want to sue me because eric got his panties in a wad because I didn't kiss his ass for making a yet-unseen Mac-native version of OpenOffice.org - bring it on. -- - Chad Smith http://www.gimpshop.net/ http://www.whatisopenoffice.org/ http://www.chadwsmith.com/
Re: [Marketing] OOo Mac OS X port - VS - NeoOffice.org
Steven, all, To be honest, I think a lot of this is animosity simply because it's Chad, who in the past has engaged in rather over-the-top commentary and rhetoric. I understand the hostility. (Hell, I had him on my ignore list for quite a while.) But we need to get above the personalities and look at this objectively. I don't see anything content-wise to really gripe about. If I may comment this one bit here: I consider myself having been a friend of Chad ever since the beginning he got interested in the OOo community (and that goes back a while ago now). He certainly can testify that himself. Yet, I don't agree with what happened over the Mac story. Eric Bachard doesn't dwell on this list, nor on the discuss list. Nor does the Mac team. Besides, Eric is francophone and so he most of time discusses things on the fr lists. I never saw him bullying Chad when Chad was having trouble with several people. It's just not his business, and he doesn't have the time for this, (neither do I, actually). I'm a bit disappointed by Chad's attitude here, but I trust that by discussion he will understand the concerns of the OOo Mac Team. Best, Charles. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo Mac OS X port - VS - NeoOffice.org
Chad Smith wrote: So now you are going to send the government after me if I don't change the site? This is bullshit. No, but this is exactly the sort of attitude and over-the-top rhetoric to which I was referring. If anyone ever clicked on the make a donation button - I would have deducted my cost and then given the extra to OOo - or used it to promote OOo. I have donated directly, monetarily to OOo and other Open Source projects in the past. And, from a legal standpoint - the disclaimer at the top of the page is plenty, in and of itself, for a defence against anyone who wants to sue me. I have the same button on all of my sites that I put up at my own expense. So far, none of them have been used. But if someone wants to give - they can feel free. That button didn't cost me anything, so I figured why not. Ever heard of GiveBobaDollar.com? There is nothing illegal about letting people give you money. Look., Chad, I'm an attorney. This is what I do for a living. I'm not going to give you legal advice because I'm not sure where you live, and I'm guessing that I'm not licensed in that particular jurisdiction (unless it happens to be Michigan, USA, in which case . . . give me a call!). But I will tell you what I know in general about these kinds of issues. There is a valid claim for an intellectual property right infringement if your work, product, logo, etc. resembles that of another closely enough that a reasonable person could confuse your work as having been produced by someone else. Now that the logo has been removed, you are in somewhat of a gray area on this one. With the logo there, however, you were very, very close to being in jeopardy of a legitimate complaint. The disclaimer is one factor that you could use to defend, but it's not dispositive. The only thing that would be dispositive is if you had written permission from someone with the authority to give it to duplicate the look and feel of the site; I am unclear from reading this thread thus far to determine whether or not that is what you are claiming. What I am saying--and I want to be very clear on this--is that you are possibly (not certainly, not probably, not definitely . . . just possibly) still too close to pass muster because it's arguable that a reasonable person could confuse your site with an official OOo site, and that's something you should keep in mind. I am trying to help you here because I don't want you to get into trouble. Furthermore, I think it's silly that we waste our time on this stuff and if you just made some minor changes to the point that your site is more easily distinguishable, that particular problem would go away. As far as the button goes, again, I am trying to help you here. Even after your statement above, I'm still not clear where money that is donated goes. Does it go to you, or does it go to the OOo project? You have a site that has duplicated the look/feel of the OOo official site. Your site promotes the OOo project. It's got all kinds of links all around the Make a Donation button to OpenOffice.org official sites. A reasonable person would think that you are collecting donations for the OOo project with the Make a Donation button. That was my impression at first, and as I said, I'm still not clear on whether or not that's the case. I'm not saying you need to take it off. I'm saying that for your own good you need to make it clear where the money goes. The ideal solution would be to do one of the following: 1. Put text under the button that says Donations defray the costs associated with the 'WhatIsOpenOffice.org' website, and are not tax-deductible. To make donations to the OpenOffice.org project, click here with a link to http://contributing.openoffice.org/donate.html. 2. Instead of putting the button on the main page, put it on a separate Donations page, and replace the main page button with a link to the Donations page. Then, on the Donations page, explain where the money goes, that donations are not tax-deductible, and how to donate to OpenOffice.org, and include the button on this page. But, good god - if you want to sue me because eric got his panties in a wad because I didn't kiss his ass for making a yet-unseen Mac-native version of OpenOffice.org - bring it on. Nobody is threatening to sue you or send the government after you or anything else. What I am trying to do is help you stay out of trouble, in spite of yourself. I'm doing you a favor. The proper response would be Thank you and not THIS IS BULLSHIT! I have no idea who eric is. But I think you'll see that I've already disagreed with a lot of his criticism of your site. Nevertheless, you do have some potential liability here that you might want to avoid. Honestly, Chad, you seem to be creating a lot of your own problems. Calm down. Take a deep breath. Get the ego back on the leash. And read what I've said above objectively. -- Steven Shelton
[Marketing] Why do we need users ?
Hi all, I would like to open a new discussion based on some thoughts I had reading the thread about Chad site. The object of my message said all: why do we need users in a development project ? Or why are we trying to attract them before having a robust product. This community exist since 2000 (almost 6 years this month that it has been annonced :-) and our first release was in October 2002. I think you understand what I try to design : we need users even if the product is not reliable, they are our testers, they are our eyes on bugs, they are our feedback on functionality, the are our support when you're near to step down. Chad, you've missed this point, without those fervent users, no product could be develop. This is why advertising for another product, you take away some users who would be very helpful to our project. You take away a chance for our project to go faster. This not to say one is better than another, but being in a development project, you aim to support all its steps. Kind regards Sophie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Why do we need users ?
Sophie Gautier schreef: but being in a development project, you aim to support all its steps. +1 here Sophie! Couldn't say it any better way :) When you decide to get involved in a project carried by a community, or when you decide to be part of this community, you support the product in any fase. Development or production. You don't get (potential) users to use another product because the main project (in this case OOo for Mac) is not in a production fase. You get these users to participate in the project and help in any way they can. If you can't agree with Sophie, or above, in my sight, you become just a user, not a community member. And a user uses what is best for his needs, and drops a piece of software just as fast as he starts using it. And in that case, you don't build a website to support this piece of software. Greetings, Johan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
