Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[Sheng Zha]

Thanks, Rahul. Out of the 4 conversations you listed that you think are not
necessary, I actually think the PR on coreml tool may be worth discussing.
For example, should it (and other tools) have a separate repo, and should
its version management be tied to mxnet.

And on:

> If people are forced to setup filters to parse these mails, then we are 
> *ensuring*
people don't get their eyes on valuable discussions on dev@.

I think this argument is based more on emotion than on reason. I subscribe
to over 130 email lists for work, lots of which has PR/commit updates that
are not my immediate concern, and it hasn't prevented me from reading
valuable discussions.

-sz

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Rahul Huilgol 
wrote:

> -1
>
> We had such a thing before and people asked for the mails to be redirected
> to a different list commits@ because of the flood of mails.
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8b834e39110381fadb8a0ab59185a8
> f52b8406247a1f281f7d691392@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E
>
> I don't know if people have a sense of the volume of mails this can add
> here. Here's the stats from the commits@ email list we have. I'd be
> curious
> to see how many subscribers we have to that. Hopefully the people voting +1
> here subscribed to that :)
>
> 2018 June: 4617
> 2018 July: (half a month) 3106
> (Source of the numbers are here
> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?comm...@mxnet.apache.org:2018-7)
>
> @Joshua: yes we need to bring 'valuable' (emphasis mine) discussion to a
> centralized place @dev. Does everything needs to be sent to dev@. For
> example, consider these recent PRs, why is it necessary for them to be
> forwarded to dev@?
>
> fix flaky test test_operator_gpu.test_countsketch:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11780
> Update PyPI version number:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11773
> Fix file name creation for Windows:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11765
> [MXNET-8230] test_operator_gpu.test_rms fails:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11749
>
> If people are forced to setup filters to parse these mails, then we are
> *ensuring* people don't get their eyes on valuable discussions on dev@.
>
> Regards,
> Rahul
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Sheng Zha  wrote:
>
> > FWIW: "from:notificati...@github.com AND to:dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.
> org
> > AND NOT to:me" but I'm sure you get the gist :)
> >
> >
> > Opt-in model applies to individuals rather than the dev list, because the
> > dev list is intended as an asynchronous way for new comers to easily
> follow
> > past technical discussions, and is the only place recognized by apache
> for
> > these discussions. Currently, lots of high quality technical discussions
> > that are happening on github are lost and not archived here. The
> procedural
> > change in this vote is intended for bridging such gap. Besides, it's more
> > likely for new contributors to know how to filter emails than to know how
> > to "opt-in".
> >
> >
> > More discussion is welcome in the linked discussion thread.
> >
> >
> > -sz
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 12:37 PM, pracheer gupta <
> > pracheer_gu...@hotmail.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > FWIW: The filter needs to be more complicated than just "
> > > from:notificati...@github.com". After all, if someone mentions me
> > > directly in PR thread and/or I subscribe to only a particular PR, those
> > > emails will also come from "notificati...@github.com". There are ways
> > > around that though.
> > >
> > >
> > > It might be good to mention this filter in some wiki/webpage somewhere;
> > > may save some effort for people trying to find the right set of
> filters.
> > It
> > > could even be in the welcome email when one subscribes to this
> > email-list.
> > >
> > >
> > > Another alternate option: How about choosing an opt-in model rather
> than
> > > an opt-out model? Having another email list and anyone can subscribe to
> > it
> > > if they wish.
> > >
> > >
> > > Not sure if there is a perfect answer out there for this but in
> principle
> > > I agree that it will be good to have "push notifications" for all
> > PRs/issue.
> > >
> > >
> > > -Pracheer
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: Junru Shao 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:58:33 AM
> > > To: d...@mxnet.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities
> > >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > Both GitHub activities and dev list are places for development. It will
> > be
> > > great if we could have a all-in-one place for such discussions. I
> believe
> > > Sheng's proposal is a perfect solution.
> > >
> > > On 2018/07/16 03:32:06, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See
> > > previous
> > > > discussion thread here
> > > >  > > bfd01f0b78d3cb44034f566442@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E>
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > The vote 

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[Sheng Zha]

Hi S,

Keeping a separate list defeats the purpose, because then such conversation
is again not happening on dev, which is deemed to be in the "did not
happen" category. Also, conversations that are not relevant to you are
already happening on the list, and you're under no obligation to read them
all.

-sz

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 1:20 PM, K, S  wrote:

> -1
>
> Keeping a separate email list for subscribing to github activities seems
> like a better idea. One can always reference the issue/discussion/PR in the
> dev list to initiate conversation. Biggest concern is that important
> discussion can get buried in a flood of emails that are not completely
> relevant to me.
>
> SK
>
> On 7/17/18, 1:07 PM, "Rahul Huilgol"  wrote:
>
> -1
>
> We had such a thing before and people asked for the mails to be
> redirected
> to a different list commits@ because of the flood of mails.
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8b834e39110381fadb8a0ab59185a8
> f52b8406247a1f281f7d691392@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E
>
> I don't know if people have a sense of the volume of mails this can add
> here. Here's the stats from the commits@ email list we have. I'd be
> curious
> to see how many subscribers we have to that. Hopefully the people
> voting +1
> here subscribed to that :)
>
> 2018 June: 4617
> 2018 July: (half a month) 3106
> (Source of the numbers are here
> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?comm...@mxnet.apache.org:2018-7)
>
> @Joshua: yes we need to bring 'valuable' (emphasis mine) discussion to
> a
> centralized place @dev. Does everything needs to be sent to dev@. For
> example, consider these recent PRs, why is it necessary for them to be
> forwarded to dev@?
>
> fix flaky test test_operator_gpu.test_countsketch:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11780
> Update PyPI version number:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11773
> Fix file name creation for Windows:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11765
> [MXNET-8230] test_operator_gpu.test_rms fails:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11749
>
> If people are forced to setup filters to parse these mails, then we are
> *ensuring* people don't get their eyes on valuable discussions on dev@
> .
>
> Regards,
> Rahul
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Sheng Zha 
> wrote:
>
> > FWIW: "from:notificati...@github.com AND
> to:dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> > AND NOT to:me" but I'm sure you get the gist :)
> >
> >
> > Opt-in model applies to individuals rather than the dev list,
> because the
> > dev list is intended as an asynchronous way for new comers to easily
> follow
> > past technical discussions, and is the only place recognized by
> apache for
> > these discussions. Currently, lots of high quality technical
> discussions
> > that are happening on github are lost and not archived here. The
> procedural
> > change in this vote is intended for bridging such gap. Besides, it's
> more
> > likely for new contributors to know how to filter emails than to
> know how
> > to "opt-in".
> >
> >
> > More discussion is welcome in the linked discussion thread.
> >
> >
> > -sz
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 12:37 PM, pracheer gupta <
> > pracheer_gu...@hotmail.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > FWIW: The filter needs to be more complicated than just "
> > > from:notificati...@github.com". After all, if someone mentions me
> > > directly in PR thread and/or I subscribe to only a particular PR,
> those
> > > emails will also come from "notificati...@github.com". There are
> ways
> > > around that though.
> > >
> > >
> > > It might be good to mention this filter in some wiki/webpage
> somewhere;
> > > may save some effort for people trying to find the right set of
> filters.
> > It
> > > could even be in the welcome email when one subscribes to this
> > email-list.
> > >
> > >
> > > Another alternate option: How about choosing an opt-in model
> rather than
> > > an opt-out model? Having another email list and anyone can
> subscribe to
> > it
> > > if they wish.
> > >
> > >
> > > Not sure if there is a perfect answer out there for this but in
> principle
> > > I agree that it will be good to have "push notifications" for all
> > PRs/issue.
> > >
> > >
> > > -Pracheer
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: Junru Shao 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:58:33 AM
> > > To: d...@mxnet.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities
> > >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > Both GitHub activities and dev list are places for development. It
> will
> > be
> > > great if we could have a all-in-one place for such discussions. I
> believe
> > > Sheng's 

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[K, S]

-1

Keeping a separate email list for subscribing to github activities seems like a 
better idea. One can always reference the issue/discussion/PR in the dev list 
to initiate conversation. Biggest concern is that important discussion can get 
buried in a flood of emails that are not completely relevant to me.

SK

On 7/17/18, 1:07 PM, "Rahul Huilgol"  wrote:

-1

We had such a thing before and people asked for the mails to be redirected
to a different list commits@ because of the flood of mails.


https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8b834e39110381fadb8a0ab59185a8f52b8406247a1f281f7d691392@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E

I don't know if people have a sense of the volume of mails this can add
here. Here's the stats from the commits@ email list we have. I'd be curious
to see how many subscribers we have to that. Hopefully the people voting +1
here subscribed to that :)

2018 June: 4617
2018 July: (half a month) 3106
(Source of the numbers are here
https://lists.apache.org/list.html?comm...@mxnet.apache.org:2018-7)

@Joshua: yes we need to bring 'valuable' (emphasis mine) discussion to a
centralized place @dev. Does everything needs to be sent to dev@. For
example, consider these recent PRs, why is it necessary for them to be
forwarded to dev@?

fix flaky test test_operator_gpu.test_countsketch:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11780
Update PyPI version number:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11773
Fix file name creation for Windows:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11765
[MXNET-8230] test_operator_gpu.test_rms fails:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11749

If people are forced to setup filters to parse these mails, then we are
*ensuring* people don't get their eyes on valuable discussions on dev@.

Regards,
Rahul

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Sheng Zha  wrote:

> FWIW: "from:notificati...@github.com AND to:dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> AND NOT to:me" but I'm sure you get the gist :)
>
>
> Opt-in model applies to individuals rather than the dev list, because the
> dev list is intended as an asynchronous way for new comers to easily 
follow
> past technical discussions, and is the only place recognized by apache for
> these discussions. Currently, lots of high quality technical discussions
> that are happening on github are lost and not archived here. The 
procedural
> change in this vote is intended for bridging such gap. Besides, it's more
> likely for new contributors to know how to filter emails than to know how
> to "opt-in".
>
>
> More discussion is welcome in the linked discussion thread.
>
>
> -sz
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 12:37 PM, pracheer gupta <
> pracheer_gu...@hotmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > FWIW: The filter needs to be more complicated than just "
> > from:notificati...@github.com". After all, if someone mentions me
> > directly in PR thread and/or I subscribe to only a particular PR, those
> > emails will also come from "notificati...@github.com". There are ways
> > around that though.
> >
> >
> > It might be good to mention this filter in some wiki/webpage somewhere;
> > may save some effort for people trying to find the right set of filters.
> It
> > could even be in the welcome email when one subscribes to this
> email-list.
> >
> >
> > Another alternate option: How about choosing an opt-in model rather than
> > an opt-out model? Having another email list and anyone can subscribe to
> it
> > if they wish.
> >
> >
> > Not sure if there is a perfect answer out there for this but in 
principle
> > I agree that it will be good to have "push notifications" for all
> PRs/issue.
> >
> >
> > -Pracheer
> >
> > 
> > From: Junru Shao 
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:58:33 AM
> > To: d...@mxnet.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities
> >
> > +1
> >
> > Both GitHub activities and dev list are places for development. It will
> be
> > great if we could have a all-in-one place for such discussions. I 
believe
> > Sheng's proposal is a perfect solution.
> >
> > On 2018/07/16 03:32:06, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See
> > previous
> > > discussion thread here
> > >  > bfd01f0b78d3cb44034f566442@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E>
> > > .
> > >
> > > The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
> > >
> > > -sz
> > >
> >
>



-- 
Rahul Huilgol

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[Rahul Huilgol]

-1

We had such a thing before and people asked for the mails to be redirected
to a different list commits@ because of the flood of mails.

https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8b834e39110381fadb8a0ab59185a8f52b8406247a1f281f7d691392@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E

I don't know if people have a sense of the volume of mails this can add
here. Here's the stats from the commits@ email list we have. I'd be curious
to see how many subscribers we have to that. Hopefully the people voting +1
here subscribed to that :)

2018 June: 4617
2018 July: (half a month) 3106
(Source of the numbers are here
https://lists.apache.org/list.html?comm...@mxnet.apache.org:2018-7)

@Joshua: yes we need to bring 'valuable' (emphasis mine) discussion to a
centralized place @dev. Does everything needs to be sent to dev@. For
example, consider these recent PRs, why is it necessary for them to be
forwarded to dev@?

fix flaky test test_operator_gpu.test_countsketch:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11780
Update PyPI version number:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11773
Fix file name creation for Windows:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11765
[MXNET-8230] test_operator_gpu.test_rms fails:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11749

If people are forced to setup filters to parse these mails, then we are
*ensuring* people don't get their eyes on valuable discussions on dev@.

Regards,
Rahul

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Sheng Zha  wrote:

> FWIW: "from:notificati...@github.com AND to:dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> AND NOT to:me" but I'm sure you get the gist :)
>
>
> Opt-in model applies to individuals rather than the dev list, because the
> dev list is intended as an asynchronous way for new comers to easily follow
> past technical discussions, and is the only place recognized by apache for
> these discussions. Currently, lots of high quality technical discussions
> that are happening on github are lost and not archived here. The procedural
> change in this vote is intended for bridging such gap. Besides, it's more
> likely for new contributors to know how to filter emails than to know how
> to "opt-in".
>
>
> More discussion is welcome in the linked discussion thread.
>
>
> -sz
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 12:37 PM, pracheer gupta <
> pracheer_gu...@hotmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > FWIW: The filter needs to be more complicated than just "
> > from:notificati...@github.com". After all, if someone mentions me
> > directly in PR thread and/or I subscribe to only a particular PR, those
> > emails will also come from "notificati...@github.com". There are ways
> > around that though.
> >
> >
> > It might be good to mention this filter in some wiki/webpage somewhere;
> > may save some effort for people trying to find the right set of filters.
> It
> > could even be in the welcome email when one subscribes to this
> email-list.
> >
> >
> > Another alternate option: How about choosing an opt-in model rather than
> > an opt-out model? Having another email list and anyone can subscribe to
> it
> > if they wish.
> >
> >
> > Not sure if there is a perfect answer out there for this but in principle
> > I agree that it will be good to have "push notifications" for all
> PRs/issue.
> >
> >
> > -Pracheer
> >
> > 
> > From: Junru Shao 
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:58:33 AM
> > To: d...@mxnet.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities
> >
> > +1
> >
> > Both GitHub activities and dev list are places for development. It will
> be
> > great if we could have a all-in-one place for such discussions. I believe
> > Sheng's proposal is a perfect solution.
> >
> > On 2018/07/16 03:32:06, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See
> > previous
> > > discussion thread here
> > >  > bfd01f0b78d3cb44034f566442@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E>
> > > .
> > >
> > > The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
> > >
> > > -sz
> > >
> >
>



-- 
Rahul Huilgol

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[YiZhi Liu]

+1
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 12:55 PM Joshua Z. Zhang  wrote:
>
> +1
>
> We NEED to bring valuable discussions to a centralized place (@dev for 
> example) rather than scattered single threads.
> Per filter options, there are a lot we can do to improve the SNR.
>
> Zhi
>
> On 2018/07/17 16:26:01, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> > Hi Anirudh,
> >
> > 1. You need exactly one filter to filter out all the github notifications
> > on PRs and issues: "from:notificati...@github.com", and you'd get your S/N
> > ratio back.
> > 2. Having the option to do design discussion on an issue or PR is actually
> > a good thing as many discussions are quite small and better accompanied by
> > code. If for some reason a merged design needs revisiting, there's still
> > the option of sending an email to dev@ and discuss about it.
> > 3. About votes, commit vote (and veto) can already happen on PR per past
> > agreement. The discussion for procedural vote IMO should be allowed to
> > happen on Github if it's development related. Procedural votes themselves
> > should and can still happen on dev@.
> >
> > About "you don't really have to do anything explicitly on the dev@ list",
> > besides the above arguments, we don't send emails to dev@ just for the
> > purpose of sending it. On the other hand, since "whatever didn't happen on
> > dev list didn't happen", we'd need better arguments on why we'd choose to
> > forego the transparency.
> >
> > -sz
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Anirudh  wrote:
> >
> > > -1
> > >
> > > The low signal to noise ratio would mean that we may miss important 
> > > emails.
> > > Even with the different filters that we may setup for dev@, the emails
> > > would be too many to not miss the important ones. We would see more and
> > > more people starting a design discussion on an issue or PR. Because of the
> > > low signal to noise ratio on the dev@ list, many may miss these
> > > discussions.
> > >
> > > Slowly, this would erode the purpose of the dev@ list as this means that
> > > you don't really have to do anything explicitly on the dev@ list.
> > > You can start a design discussion on a github issue. You can start a
> > > vote/discussion on a github issue.
> > >
> > > Anirudh
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:35 AM, Timur Shenkao  wrote:
> > >
> > > > +1 if my vote can be taken into account
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:32 AM, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See
> > > > previous
> > > > > discussion thread here
> > > > >  > > > > bfd01f0b78d3cb44034f566442@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E>
> > > > > .
> > > > >
> > > > > The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
> > > > >
> > > > > -sz
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >



-- 
Yizhi Liu
DMLC member
Amazon Web Services
Vancouver, Canada

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[Joshua Z. Zhang]

+1

We NEED to bring valuable discussions to a centralized place (@dev for example) 
rather than scattered single threads.
Per filter options, there are a lot we can do to improve the SNR.

Zhi

On 2018/07/17 16:26:01, Sheng Zha  wrote: 
> Hi Anirudh,
> 
> 1. You need exactly one filter to filter out all the github notifications
> on PRs and issues: "from:notificati...@github.com", and you'd get your S/N
> ratio back.
> 2. Having the option to do design discussion on an issue or PR is actually
> a good thing as many discussions are quite small and better accompanied by
> code. If for some reason a merged design needs revisiting, there's still
> the option of sending an email to dev@ and discuss about it.
> 3. About votes, commit vote (and veto) can already happen on PR per past
> agreement. The discussion for procedural vote IMO should be allowed to
> happen on Github if it's development related. Procedural votes themselves
> should and can still happen on dev@.
> 
> About "you don't really have to do anything explicitly on the dev@ list",
> besides the above arguments, we don't send emails to dev@ just for the
> purpose of sending it. On the other hand, since "whatever didn't happen on
> dev list didn't happen", we'd need better arguments on why we'd choose to
> forego the transparency.
> 
> -sz
> 
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Anirudh  wrote:
> 
> > -1
> >
> > The low signal to noise ratio would mean that we may miss important emails.
> > Even with the different filters that we may setup for dev@, the emails
> > would be too many to not miss the important ones. We would see more and
> > more people starting a design discussion on an issue or PR. Because of the
> > low signal to noise ratio on the dev@ list, many may miss these
> > discussions.
> >
> > Slowly, this would erode the purpose of the dev@ list as this means that
> > you don't really have to do anything explicitly on the dev@ list.
> > You can start a design discussion on a github issue. You can start a
> > vote/discussion on a github issue.
> >
> > Anirudh
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:35 AM, Timur Shenkao  wrote:
> >
> > > +1 if my vote can be taken into account
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:32 AM, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See
> > > previous
> > > > discussion thread here
> > > >  > > > bfd01f0b78d3cb44034f566442@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E>
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
> > > >
> > > > -sz
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[Sheng Zha]

FWIW: "from:notificati...@github.com AND to:dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
AND NOT to:me" but I'm sure you get the gist :)


Opt-in model applies to individuals rather than the dev list, because the
dev list is intended as an asynchronous way for new comers to easily follow
past technical discussions, and is the only place recognized by apache for
these discussions. Currently, lots of high quality technical discussions
that are happening on github are lost and not archived here. The procedural
change in this vote is intended for bridging such gap. Besides, it's more
likely for new contributors to know how to filter emails than to know how
to "opt-in".


More discussion is welcome in the linked discussion thread.


-sz

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 12:37 PM, pracheer gupta  wrote:

> FWIW: The filter needs to be more complicated than just "
> from:notificati...@github.com". After all, if someone mentions me
> directly in PR thread and/or I subscribe to only a particular PR, those
> emails will also come from "notificati...@github.com". There are ways
> around that though.
>
>
> It might be good to mention this filter in some wiki/webpage somewhere;
> may save some effort for people trying to find the right set of filters. It
> could even be in the welcome email when one subscribes to this email-list.
>
>
> Another alternate option: How about choosing an opt-in model rather than
> an opt-out model? Having another email list and anyone can subscribe to it
> if they wish.
>
>
> Not sure if there is a perfect answer out there for this but in principle
> I agree that it will be good to have "push notifications" for all PRs/issue.
>
>
> -Pracheer
>
> 
> From: Junru Shao 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:58:33 AM
> To: d...@mxnet.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities
>
> +1
>
> Both GitHub activities and dev list are places for development. It will be
> great if we could have a all-in-one place for such discussions. I believe
> Sheng's proposal is a perfect solution.
>
> On 2018/07/16 03:32:06, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See
> previous
> > discussion thread here
> >  bfd01f0b78d3cb44034f566442@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E>
> > .
> >
> > The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
> >
> > -sz
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[pracheer gupta]

FWIW: The filter needs to be more complicated than just 
"from:notificati...@github.com". After all, if someone mentions me directly in 
PR thread and/or I subscribe to only a particular PR, those emails will also 
come from "notificati...@github.com". There are ways around that though.


It might be good to mention this filter in some wiki/webpage somewhere; may 
save some effort for people trying to find the right set of filters. It could 
even be in the welcome email when one subscribes to this email-list.


Another alternate option: How about choosing an opt-in model rather than an 
opt-out model? Having another email list and anyone can subscribe to it if they 
wish.


Not sure if there is a perfect answer out there for this but in principle I 
agree that it will be good to have "push notifications" for all PRs/issue.


-Pracheer


From: Junru Shao 
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:58:33 AM
To: d...@mxnet.apache.org
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

+1

Both GitHub activities and dev list are places for development. It will be 
great if we could have a all-in-one place for such discussions. I believe 
Sheng's proposal is a perfect solution.

On 2018/07/16 03:32:06, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See previous
> discussion thread here
> 
> .
>
> The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
>
> -sz
>

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[Junru Shao]

+1

Both GitHub activities and dev list are places for development. It will be 
great if we could have a all-in-one place for such discussions. I believe 
Sheng's proposal is a perfect solution.

On 2018/07/16 03:32:06, Sheng Zha  wrote: 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See previous
> discussion thread here
> 
> .
> 
> The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
> 
> -sz
> 

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[Junru Shao]

+1

Both GitHub activities and dev list are places for development. It will be
great if we could have a all-in-one place for such discussions. I believe
Sheng's proposal is a perfect solution.

On 2018/07/16 03:32:06, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See previous
> discussion thread here
> <
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/3d883f6a3cbc8e81e810962e0c0fe7bfd01f0b78d3cb44034f566442@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E
>
> .
>
> The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
>
> -sz
>

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[Anirudh Acharya]

+1

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 9:58 AM Anirudh  wrote:

> Its not foregoing transparency since people can easily subscribe to the
> github activities individually. dev@ has been used till now for design
> discussions, other project discussions,
> votes etc. After we subscribe dev@ to all activities, I am afraid dev@
> will
> be reduced to a forwarded mail box and it is redundant for most purposes.
>
> Anirudh
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 9:26 AM, Sheng Zha  wrote:
>
> > Hi Anirudh,
> >
> > 1. You need exactly one filter to filter out all the github notifications
> > on PRs and issues: "from:notificati...@github.com", and you'd get your
> S/N
> > ratio back.
> > 2. Having the option to do design discussion on an issue or PR is
> actually
> > a good thing as many discussions are quite small and better accompanied
> by
> > code. If for some reason a merged design needs revisiting, there's still
> > the option of sending an email to dev@ and discuss about it.
> > 3. About votes, commit vote (and veto) can already happen on PR per past
> > agreement. The discussion for procedural vote IMO should be allowed to
> > happen on Github if it's development related. Procedural votes themselves
> > should and can still happen on dev@.
> >
> > About "you don't really have to do anything explicitly on the dev@
> list",
> > besides the above arguments, we don't send emails to dev@ just for the
> > purpose of sending it. On the other hand, since "whatever didn't happen
> on
> > dev list didn't happen", we'd need better arguments on why we'd choose to
> > forego the transparency.
> >
> > -sz
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Anirudh  wrote:
> >
> > > -1
> > >
> > > The low signal to noise ratio would mean that we may miss important
> > emails.
> > > Even with the different filters that we may setup for dev@, the emails
> > > would be too many to not miss the important ones. We would see more and
> > > more people starting a design discussion on an issue or PR. Because of
> > the
> > > low signal to noise ratio on the dev@ list, many may miss these
> > > discussions.
> > >
> > > Slowly, this would erode the purpose of the dev@ list as this means
> that
> > > you don't really have to do anything explicitly on the dev@ list.
> > > You can start a design discussion on a github issue. You can start a
> > > vote/discussion on a github issue.
> > >
> > > Anirudh
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:35 AM, Timur Shenkao 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > +1 if my vote can be taken into account
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:32 AM, Sheng Zha 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See
> > > > previous
> > > > > discussion thread here
> > > > > <
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/3d883f6a3cbc8e81e810962e0c0fe7
> > > > > bfd01f0b78d3cb44034f566442@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E>
> > > > > .
> > > > >
> > > > > The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
> > > > >
> > > > > -sz
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[Anirudh]

Its not foregoing transparency since people can easily subscribe to the
github activities individually. dev@ has been used till now for design
discussions, other project discussions,
votes etc. After we subscribe dev@ to all activities, I am afraid dev@ will
be reduced to a forwarded mail box and it is redundant for most purposes.

Anirudh

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 9:26 AM, Sheng Zha  wrote:

> Hi Anirudh,
>
> 1. You need exactly one filter to filter out all the github notifications
> on PRs and issues: "from:notificati...@github.com", and you'd get your S/N
> ratio back.
> 2. Having the option to do design discussion on an issue or PR is actually
> a good thing as many discussions are quite small and better accompanied by
> code. If for some reason a merged design needs revisiting, there's still
> the option of sending an email to dev@ and discuss about it.
> 3. About votes, commit vote (and veto) can already happen on PR per past
> agreement. The discussion for procedural vote IMO should be allowed to
> happen on Github if it's development related. Procedural votes themselves
> should and can still happen on dev@.
>
> About "you don't really have to do anything explicitly on the dev@ list",
> besides the above arguments, we don't send emails to dev@ just for the
> purpose of sending it. On the other hand, since "whatever didn't happen on
> dev list didn't happen", we'd need better arguments on why we'd choose to
> forego the transparency.
>
> -sz
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Anirudh  wrote:
>
> > -1
> >
> > The low signal to noise ratio would mean that we may miss important
> emails.
> > Even with the different filters that we may setup for dev@, the emails
> > would be too many to not miss the important ones. We would see more and
> > more people starting a design discussion on an issue or PR. Because of
> the
> > low signal to noise ratio on the dev@ list, many may miss these
> > discussions.
> >
> > Slowly, this would erode the purpose of the dev@ list as this means that
> > you don't really have to do anything explicitly on the dev@ list.
> > You can start a design discussion on a github issue. You can start a
> > vote/discussion on a github issue.
> >
> > Anirudh
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:35 AM, Timur Shenkao 
> wrote:
> >
> > > +1 if my vote can be taken into account
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:32 AM, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See
> > > previous
> > > > discussion thread here
> > > >  > > > bfd01f0b78d3cb44034f566442@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E>
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
> > > >
> > > > -sz
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[Qing Lan]

-1, 
unless we can keep this under control. It's not all of the PRs or Issues 
worthwhile to be involved into discussion. 
I hope we can put this under control such as @subscribe_dev as a bot to spread 
the information to dev@.

Thanks,
Qing

On 7/17/18, 9:26 AM, "Lin Yuan"  wrote:

+1, I think they are very relevant to dev and as Aaron said we can always
set up personalized filter.

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 9:21 AM Aaron Markham 
wrote:

> +1, I don't read your emails anyways. Just kidding. I think it would be
> good to see the action, even if I eventually have to setup filters if it
> gets overwhelming.
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 9:15 AM, Tianqi Chen 
> wrote:
>
> > +1, most of issue and PR activities are about development, and they
> belong
> > to dev. It also helps us to recognizes contributors who are actively
> > contributing but less vocal via emails -- there are many of them.
> >
> > Tianqi
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Anirudh  wrote:
> >
> > > -1
> > >
> > > The low signal to noise ratio would mean that we may miss important
> > emails.
> > > Even with the different filters that we may setup for dev@, the emails
> > > would be too many to not miss the important ones. We would see more 
and
> > > more people starting a design discussion on an issue or PR. Because of
> > the
> > > low signal to noise ratio on the dev@ list, many may miss these
> > > discussions.
> > >
> > > Slowly, this would erode the purpose of the dev@ list as this means
> that
> > > you don't really have to do anything explicitly on the dev@ list.
> > > You can start a design discussion on a github issue. You can start a
> > > vote/discussion on a github issue.
> > >
> > > Anirudh
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:35 AM, Timur Shenkao 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > +1 if my vote can be taken into account
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:32 AM, Sheng Zha 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See
> > > > previous
> > > > > discussion thread here
> > > > > <
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/3d883f6a3cbc8e81e810962e0c0fe7
> > > > > bfd01f0b78d3cb44034f566442@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E>
> > > > > .
> > > > >
> > > > > The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
> > > > >
> > > > > -sz
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[Lin Yuan]

+1, I think they are very relevant to dev and as Aaron said we can always
set up personalized filter.

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 9:21 AM Aaron Markham 
wrote:

> +1, I don't read your emails anyways. Just kidding. I think it would be
> good to see the action, even if I eventually have to setup filters if it
> gets overwhelming.
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 9:15 AM, Tianqi Chen 
> wrote:
>
> > +1, most of issue and PR activities are about development, and they
> belong
> > to dev. It also helps us to recognizes contributors who are actively
> > contributing but less vocal via emails -- there are many of them.
> >
> > Tianqi
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Anirudh  wrote:
> >
> > > -1
> > >
> > > The low signal to noise ratio would mean that we may miss important
> > emails.
> > > Even with the different filters that we may setup for dev@, the emails
> > > would be too many to not miss the important ones. We would see more and
> > > more people starting a design discussion on an issue or PR. Because of
> > the
> > > low signal to noise ratio on the dev@ list, many may miss these
> > > discussions.
> > >
> > > Slowly, this would erode the purpose of the dev@ list as this means
> that
> > > you don't really have to do anything explicitly on the dev@ list.
> > > You can start a design discussion on a github issue. You can start a
> > > vote/discussion on a github issue.
> > >
> > > Anirudh
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:35 AM, Timur Shenkao 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > +1 if my vote can be taken into account
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:32 AM, Sheng Zha 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See
> > > > previous
> > > > > discussion thread here
> > > > > <
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/3d883f6a3cbc8e81e810962e0c0fe7
> > > > > bfd01f0b78d3cb44034f566442@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E>
> > > > > .
> > > > >
> > > > > The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
> > > > >
> > > > > -sz
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[Sheng Zha]

Hi Anirudh,

1. You need exactly one filter to filter out all the github notifications
on PRs and issues: "from:notificati...@github.com", and you'd get your S/N
ratio back.
2. Having the option to do design discussion on an issue or PR is actually
a good thing as many discussions are quite small and better accompanied by
code. If for some reason a merged design needs revisiting, there's still
the option of sending an email to dev@ and discuss about it.
3. About votes, commit vote (and veto) can already happen on PR per past
agreement. The discussion for procedural vote IMO should be allowed to
happen on Github if it's development related. Procedural votes themselves
should and can still happen on dev@.

About "you don't really have to do anything explicitly on the dev@ list",
besides the above arguments, we don't send emails to dev@ just for the
purpose of sending it. On the other hand, since "whatever didn't happen on
dev list didn't happen", we'd need better arguments on why we'd choose to
forego the transparency.

-sz

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Anirudh  wrote:

> -1
>
> The low signal to noise ratio would mean that we may miss important emails.
> Even with the different filters that we may setup for dev@, the emails
> would be too many to not miss the important ones. We would see more and
> more people starting a design discussion on an issue or PR. Because of the
> low signal to noise ratio on the dev@ list, many may miss these
> discussions.
>
> Slowly, this would erode the purpose of the dev@ list as this means that
> you don't really have to do anything explicitly on the dev@ list.
> You can start a design discussion on a github issue. You can start a
> vote/discussion on a github issue.
>
> Anirudh
>
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:35 AM, Timur Shenkao  wrote:
>
> > +1 if my vote can be taken into account
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:32 AM, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See
> > previous
> > > discussion thread here
> > >  > > bfd01f0b78d3cb44034f566442@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E>
> > > .
> > >
> > > The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
> > >
> > > -sz
> > >
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[Aaron Markham]

+1, I don't read your emails anyways. Just kidding. I think it would be
good to see the action, even if I eventually have to setup filters if it
gets overwhelming.

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 9:15 AM, Tianqi Chen 
wrote:

> +1, most of issue and PR activities are about development, and they belong
> to dev. It also helps us to recognizes contributors who are actively
> contributing but less vocal via emails -- there are many of them.
>
> Tianqi
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Anirudh  wrote:
>
> > -1
> >
> > The low signal to noise ratio would mean that we may miss important
> emails.
> > Even with the different filters that we may setup for dev@, the emails
> > would be too many to not miss the important ones. We would see more and
> > more people starting a design discussion on an issue or PR. Because of
> the
> > low signal to noise ratio on the dev@ list, many may miss these
> > discussions.
> >
> > Slowly, this would erode the purpose of the dev@ list as this means that
> > you don't really have to do anything explicitly on the dev@ list.
> > You can start a design discussion on a github issue. You can start a
> > vote/discussion on a github issue.
> >
> > Anirudh
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:35 AM, Timur Shenkao 
> wrote:
> >
> > > +1 if my vote can be taken into account
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:32 AM, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See
> > > previous
> > > > discussion thread here
> > > >  > > > bfd01f0b78d3cb44034f566442@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E>
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
> > > >
> > > > -sz
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities

[Tianqi Chen]

+1, most of issue and PR activities are about development, and they belong
to dev. It also helps us to recognizes contributors who are actively
contributing but less vocal via emails -- there are many of them.

Tianqi

On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Anirudh  wrote:

> -1
>
> The low signal to noise ratio would mean that we may miss important emails.
> Even with the different filters that we may setup for dev@, the emails
> would be too many to not miss the important ones. We would see more and
> more people starting a design discussion on an issue or PR. Because of the
> low signal to noise ratio on the dev@ list, many may miss these
> discussions.
>
> Slowly, this would erode the purpose of the dev@ list as this means that
> you don't really have to do anything explicitly on the dev@ list.
> You can start a design discussion on a github issue. You can start a
> vote/discussion on a github issue.
>
> Anirudh
>
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:35 AM, Timur Shenkao  wrote:
>
> > +1 if my vote can be taken into account
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:32 AM, Sheng Zha  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm starting a vote on subscribing dev@ to Github activities. See
> > previous
> > > discussion thread here
> > >  > > bfd01f0b78d3cb44034f566442@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E>
> > > .
> > >
> > > The vote lasts for three days and ends on 7/18/2018 at 9pm pst.
> > >
> > > -sz
> > >
> >
>