Re: ? about removing a deprecation..

2019-05-08 Thread Geertjan Wielenga
Yes that sounds good, make sure things still work afterwards, i.e., start
up NetBeans, do some work, maybe for a day or so, to see whether there are
any side effects.

Gj

On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 12:02 AM Brad Walker  wrote:

> I see a lot of the following warnings when building..
>
>
> ...
> >[repeat]
> >
> /home/bwalker/src/netbeans-11.0-test/enterprise/j2eeserver/src/org/netbeans/modules/j2ee/deployment/impl/query/J2eePlatformJavadocForBinaryQuery.java:180:
> > warning: [deprecation] getURL() in FileObject has been deprecated
> >[repeat] normalizedURL = fo.getURL();
> > ...
> >
>
> In looking at the code for FileObject, it seems like a straightforward
> change.
>
> Since there are approx. 160 instances of code like this, should this change
> be as simple as I think it should be?
>
> If so, I'm make the effort to change it.. 8-)
>
> Thanks.
>
> -brad w.
>


Re: Still Plugging Away on Java EE Support

2019-05-08 Thread Geertjan Wielenga
Excellent progress, thanks!

Gj

On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 4:40 AM Josh Juneau  wrote:

> I wanted to post a quick update to let everyone know that I'm still
> working on adding Java EE 8 support to Apache NetBeans.  I've modified a
> number of modules, including maven.j2ee and some of the glassfish modules.
> I've been stuck on an issue trying to get the Java EE 8 Maven archetype to
> download when Java EE 8 is selected...so I may need some assistance.  I
> will try to get my sources updated into my fork so that my work can be
> reviewed.  I'll post an update when the sources are in GitHub.
>
> Thanks
>
> Josh Juneau
> juneau...@gmail.com
> http://jj-blogger.blogspot.com
> https://www.apress.com/us/search?query=Juneau


Still Plugging Away on Java EE Support

2019-05-08 Thread Josh Juneau
I wanted to post a quick update to let everyone know that I'm still working on 
adding Java EE 8 support to Apache NetBeans.  I've modified a number of 
modules, including maven.j2ee and some of the glassfish modules.  I've been 
stuck on an issue trying to get the Java EE 8 Maven archetype to download when 
Java EE 8 is selected...so I may need some assistance.  I will try to get my 
sources updated into my fork so that my work can be reviewed.  I'll post an 
update when the sources are in GitHub. 

Thanks 

Josh Juneau
juneau...@gmail.com
http://jj-blogger.blogspot.com
https://www.apress.com/us/search?query=Juneau

Splash Screen Update (was Re: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!)

2019-05-08 Thread Antonio

Hi all,

A quick update on the status of the splash screens:

1- We're currently trying to solve some infra problems (restoring access 
to PMC secrets repository after becoming TLP, re-encrypting OSU OSL keys 
to host binaries with updated NetBeans Team PGP keys, etc.).


2- We're tracking progress in 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-2455


3- _Main problems_ now seems to be

	- the current splash screen makes the final result not very legible. 
See, for instance,


https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/attachment/12968090/splash.png

we're imprinting with ${buildnum} which may be very long.

	- Also the splash screen makes the NetBeans logo very small and hardly 
visible (IMHO).


It would be great if someone could modify the current splash screen (or 
redesign it) to make ${buildnum} more legible and the logo more visible.


4- We will be uploading some TrueType fonts to OSU OSL (inclusing the 
proposed Montserrat font), so we can use these at build time when 
imprinting PNG files (current preferred solution) or using SVG files or 
generating any other UI asset.


Cheers,
Antonio


El 26/04/2019 a las 8:53, Laszlo Kishalmi escribió:

Dear all,

We need Splash Screens for the Development Version to our master branch. 
It looks quite stupid to see the dev version showing a 10 version on 
splash even after the 11.0 got released.


Also we need the know-how to be public how to generate the splash screen 
image. A simple Splash Screen background image would be good as well!


Thank you in advance!

Laszlo Kishalmi


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Re: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!

2019-05-08 Thread Kodewerk
+1

This looks good!


> On May 8, 2019, at 2:31 PM, James Gosling  wrote:
> 
> Another approach is to just flatten the text to vectors, and remove all font 
> references:
> 
> 
> 
> This version is only 6K, with no fonts.
> 
>> On May 8, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Jan Tosovsky  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 2019-05-08 Christian Lenz wrote:
>>> A colleague said smth about loading fonts via SVG or render them to get the
>>> path. Smth with Apache Batik? So adding the font with the IDE, load it and
>>> adding that to SVG. I don’t know it exactly, but the Keywords were fonts in
>>> SVG as paths created via Apache Batik.
>> 
>> The font can also be embedded as Base64 stream:
>> 
>> @font-face {
>>  font-family: "droid-sans"; src: 
>> url(data:font/ttf;base64,AAERAQAABAAQ ... );
>> }
>> 
>> As it is embebded, there is no need for installing the font on user's 
>> computer or outlining glyph shapes.
>> 
>> That font should be ideally a subset containing just required glyphs (to 
>> ensure the minimum size, can be done in e.g. FontForge), but this could 
>> violate the font license (IANAL).
>> 
>> Btw, Batik parses/translates SVG syntax into Java Graphics2D directives. 
>> These can then be rendered on screen or transformed into other outputs (PNG 
>> or PDF). I am not aware it can outline font shapes directly. 
>> 
>> Jan
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org
>> 
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
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> 
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> 


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Re: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!

2019-05-08 Thread James Gosling
Another approach is to just flatten the text to vectors, and remove all font 
references:



This version is only 6K, with no fonts.

> On May 8, 2019, at 1:06 PM, Jan Tosovsky  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 2019-05-08 Christian Lenz wrote:
>> A colleague said smth about loading fonts via SVG or render them to get the
>> path. Smth with Apache Batik? So adding the font with the IDE, load it and
>> adding that to SVG. I don’t know it exactly, but the Keywords were fonts in
>> SVG as paths created via Apache Batik.
> 
> The font can also be embedded as Base64 stream:
> 
> @font-face {
>   font-family: "droid-sans"; src: 
> url(data:font/ttf;base64,AAERAQAABAAQ ... );
> }
> 
> As it is embebded, there is no need for installing the font on user's 
> computer or outlining glyph shapes.
> 
> That font should be ideally a subset containing just required glyphs (to 
> ensure the minimum size, can be done in e.g. FontForge), but this could 
> violate the font license (IANAL).
> 
> Btw, Batik parses/translates SVG syntax into Java Graphics2D directives. 
> These can then be rendered on screen or transformed into other outputs (PNG 
> or PDF). I am not aware it can outline font shapes directly. 
> 
> Jan
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> 
> 
> 



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RE: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!

2019-05-08 Thread Jan Tosovsky


On 2019-05-08 Christian Lenz wrote:
> A colleague said smth about loading fonts via SVG or render them to get the
> path. Smth with Apache Batik? So adding the font with the IDE, load it and
> adding that to SVG. I don’t know it exactly, but the Keywords were fonts in
> SVG as paths created via Apache Batik.

The font can also be embedded as Base64 stream:

@font-face {
font-family: "droid-sans"; src: 
url(data:font/ttf;base64,AAERAQAABAAQ ... );
}

As it is embebded, there is no need for installing the font on user's computer 
or outlining glyph shapes.

That font should be ideally a subset containing just required glyphs (to ensure 
the minimum size, can be done in e.g. FontForge), but this could violate the 
font license (IANAL).

Btw, Batik parses/translates SVG syntax into Java Graphics2D directives. These 
can then be rendered on screen or transformed into other outputs (PNG or PDF). 
I am not aware it can outline font shapes directly. 

Jan


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AW: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!

2019-05-08 Thread Christian Lenz
A colleague said smth about loading fonts via SVG or render them to get the 
path. Smth with Apache Batik? So adding the font with the IDE, load it and 
adding that to SVG. I don’t know it exactly, but the Keywords were fonts in SVG 
as paths created via Apache Batik.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Gail Anderson
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. Mai 2019 19:30
An: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!

Yes, the Montserrat font is really nice. I like the Splash Screen a lot. Also, 
a preference for the one without the line, just because it would probably 
disappear, but both are great.

For those who have a Mac, here’s how to install a Google font on your computer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4w_hwrgrUk 


—Gail

> On May 7, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Eirik Bakke  wrote:
> 
> If you're seeing Times New Roman, it's just because your computer did not 
> have the Montserrat font installed. There's another way to generate SVG files 
> so that the font is not required to display the logo correctly. (My previous 
> email tried to supply such a converted SVG, but it appears I can't send 
> attachments to the list.)
> 
> -- Eirik
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kenneth Fogel  
> Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 5:55 PM
> To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
> Subject: RE: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!
> 
> I must admit to not being a fan of Times Roman style fonts as used for the 
> text ‘NetBeans.. It lacks a modern feel. Also, fine or thin fonts as used by 
> the text ‘Apache’ can also be problematic on some displays. I’d thicken it up 
> a bit. Just my opinion.
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
> From: David Schulz 
> Sent: May 7, 2019 3:46 AM
> To: Christian Lenz ; dev@netbeans.apache.org
> Subject: RE: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!
> 
> Hey Chris, Hey Antonio,
> 
> sure, „Official“ could be the hard part here.
> But we have a logo from our Website refresh project last month.
> These should fit.
> 
> I attached two versions:
> 
> #Clean
> Clean logo with new spacing so that it looks more aligned
> 
> #Seperation Line
> Same like „Clean“ but with a thin separation line between the logo and the 
> logo names
> 
> We used the „Montserrat“ as font for the NetBeans Branding. You can download 
> it from Google Fonts.
> 
> All the best,
> David
> 
> From: Christian Lenz
> Sent: 05 May 2019 11:37
> To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
> Cc: David Schulz
> Subject: AW: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!
> 
> Hey David,
> 
> can you help here out Maybe, please? 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> Von: Antonio
> Gesendet: Samstag, 4. Mai 2019 20:28
> An: dev@netbeans.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!
> 
> Good question!
> 
> Do we have a single official NetBeans logo that combines the NetBeans icon 
> with the words "Apache NetBeans"?
> 
> Also, which is the typeface used? Is it open source?
> 
> Questions, questions,... ;-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Antonio
> 
> El 4/5/19 a las 20:06, Eirik Bakke escribió:
>>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/vieiro/netbeans-website/feature/spl
>>> ash-screen/netbeans.apache.org/src/content/images/splash-640x.png
>> 
>> Is this the new splash screen for NetBeans? Or is it just a test image? It 
>> has a number of problems from a graphic design perspective (the official 
>> logo was modified by putting a shadow under it, the logotype is in an 
>> unofficial color & typeface, the text is blurred, and there are adjoining 
>> saturated complimentary colors).
>> 
>> Do we have a single official NetBeans logo that combines the NetBean icon 
>> with the words "Apache NetBeans"? If so, the official combination 
>> (positioning, size, typeface, and color of text relative to the icon) should 
>> be used on the splash screen as well. The logo on the top-hand corner of 
>> https://xd.adobe.com/view/9d918c46-0f5d-482c-661e-0804b1d5c80e-eba0 looks 
>> very good, for instance.
>> 
>> -- EIrik
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Antonio mailto:anto...@vieiro.net>>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2019 1:14 PM
>> To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!
>> 
>> D'oh, there's a missing 'g' at the end of the link...
>> 
>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/vieiro/netbeans-website/feature/spla
>> sh-screen/netbeans.apache.org/src/content/images/splash-640x.png
>> 
>> 
>> El 4/5/19 a las 17:27, Antonio escribió:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> We could use this as a template, right?
>>> 
>>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/vieiro/netbeans-website/feature/spl
>>> a sh-screen/netbeans.apache.org/src/content/images/splash-640x.pn
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is a 640x396 png file.
>>> 
>>> If nobody complains then I'll use this as a basis for NETBEANS-2455 
>>> (i.e., creating an Ant task or similar that can imprint the image).
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Antonio
>>> 
>>> El 4/5/19 a las 

Re: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!

2019-05-08 Thread Gail Anderson
Yes, the Montserrat font is really nice. I like the Splash Screen a lot. Also, 
a preference for the one without the line, just because it would probably 
disappear, but both are great.

For those who have a Mac, here’s how to install a Google font on your computer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4w_hwrgrUk 


—Gail

> On May 7, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Eirik Bakke  wrote:
> 
> If you're seeing Times New Roman, it's just because your computer did not 
> have the Montserrat font installed. There's another way to generate SVG files 
> so that the font is not required to display the logo correctly. (My previous 
> email tried to supply such a converted SVG, but it appears I can't send 
> attachments to the list.)
> 
> -- Eirik
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kenneth Fogel  
> Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 5:55 PM
> To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
> Subject: RE: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!
> 
> I must admit to not being a fan of Times Roman style fonts as used for the 
> text ‘NetBeans.. It lacks a modern feel. Also, fine or thin fonts as used by 
> the text ‘Apache’ can also be problematic on some displays. I’d thicken it up 
> a bit. Just my opinion.
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
> From: David Schulz 
> Sent: May 7, 2019 3:46 AM
> To: Christian Lenz ; dev@netbeans.apache.org
> Subject: RE: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!
> 
> Hey Chris, Hey Antonio,
> 
> sure, „Official“ could be the hard part here.
> But we have a logo from our Website refresh project last month.
> These should fit.
> 
> I attached two versions:
> 
> #Clean
> Clean logo with new spacing so that it looks more aligned
> 
> #Seperation Line
> Same like „Clean“ but with a thin separation line between the logo and the 
> logo names
> 
> We used the „Montserrat“ as font for the NetBeans Branding. You can download 
> it from Google Fonts.
> 
> All the best,
> David
> 
> From: Christian Lenz
> Sent: 05 May 2019 11:37
> To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
> Cc: David Schulz
> Subject: AW: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!
> 
> Hey David,
> 
> can you help here out Maybe, please? 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> Von: Antonio
> Gesendet: Samstag, 4. Mai 2019 20:28
> An: dev@netbeans.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!
> 
> Good question!
> 
> Do we have a single official NetBeans logo that combines the NetBeans icon 
> with the words "Apache NetBeans"?
> 
> Also, which is the typeface used? Is it open source?
> 
> Questions, questions,... ;-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Antonio
> 
> El 4/5/19 a las 20:06, Eirik Bakke escribió:
>>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/vieiro/netbeans-website/feature/spl
>>> ash-screen/netbeans.apache.org/src/content/images/splash-640x.png
>> 
>> Is this the new splash screen for NetBeans? Or is it just a test image? It 
>> has a number of problems from a graphic design perspective (the official 
>> logo was modified by putting a shadow under it, the logotype is in an 
>> unofficial color & typeface, the text is blurred, and there are adjoining 
>> saturated complimentary colors).
>> 
>> Do we have a single official NetBeans logo that combines the NetBean icon 
>> with the words "Apache NetBeans"? If so, the official combination 
>> (positioning, size, typeface, and color of text relative to the icon) should 
>> be used on the splash screen as well. The logo on the top-hand corner of 
>> https://xd.adobe.com/view/9d918c46-0f5d-482c-661e-0804b1d5c80e-eba0 looks 
>> very good, for instance.
>> 
>> -- EIrik
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Antonio mailto:anto...@vieiro.net>>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2019 1:14 PM
>> To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [NETBEANS-2455] Splash Screens!
>> 
>> D'oh, there's a missing 'g' at the end of the link...
>> 
>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/vieiro/netbeans-website/feature/spla
>> sh-screen/netbeans.apache.org/src/content/images/splash-640x.png
>> 
>> 
>> El 4/5/19 a las 17:27, Antonio escribió:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> We could use this as a template, right?
>>> 
>>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/vieiro/netbeans-website/feature/spl
>>> a sh-screen/netbeans.apache.org/src/content/images/splash-640x.pn
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is a 640x396 png file.
>>> 
>>> If nobody complains then I'll use this as a basis for NETBEANS-2455 
>>> (i.e., creating an Ant task or similar that can imprint the image).
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Antonio
>>> 
>>> El 4/5/19 a las 9:55, Geertjan Wielenga escribió:
 Excellent, great, thanks.
 
 Gj
 
 On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 9:42 AM Antonio 
 mailto:anto...@vieiro.net>> wrote:
 
> Sure, I can do that in the next days. The idea is to have a blank 
> template that we can imprint (with an Ant task) with the current 
> build number/release number.
> 
> 473x300 it's too small, though, and it's not a golden 

Re: Re: What will be in 11.1/12?

2019-05-08 Thread Geertjan Wielenga
It's a really old page and running not at netbeans.apache.org but at
netbeans.org, if I can access it and make changes will do so.

Gj

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 1:17 PM Eric Bresie  wrote:

> While on the subject, just noticed on the Wiki page (not sure if this is
> the old page or hasn’t been redirected yet - maybe a separate issue there)
> http://wiki.netbeans.org/Main_Page that the Next Planned still has
> Netbeans 9 as next. Was this the page planned to be updated as part of this
> work?
>
> Eric Bresie
> ebre...@gmail.com
> > On May 5, 2019 at 1:40:30 PM CDT, Geertjan Wielenga 
> wrote:
> > On Sun, 5 May 2019 at 18:51, Neil C Smith  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On Sun, 5 May 2019 at 16:32, Geertjan Wielenga 
> > > wrote:
> > > > Regardless of who becomes the next release manager, can we get an
> easy
> > > view
> > > > into which pull requests will be part of the release?
> > >
> > > IMO, if we're doing this June release we should be freezing master at
> > > the end of May and releasing whatever is there as NB12. And fixing
> > > that date as soon as possible so there's an advertised time to fix up
> > > any desired PR's for that release. Cherry-picking things to include,
> >
> >
> > Just for clarity — I’m not cherry picking, instead, what I’m trying to
> > establish is a list of features, enhancements, and fixes that we already
> > know will be part of the June release.
> >
> >
> > > or deciding now whether it counts as "major" or "minor", seems counter
> > > to doing time-based releases.
> >
> >
> > So, you’re saying it will definitely be Apache NetBeans 12?
> >
> > I’m asking because I’d like to start putting a release page together on
> the
> > Wiki and I’d also like to know what NetCAT should be focused on.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > And I still think it would be good to freeze master at branch point
> > > for anything other than fixes intended for the next release, and run
> > > merge windows for new features after the releases are done.
> > >
> > > I'd be happy to consider being release manager this time around, as
> > > discussed last time, if we do something along these lines. I'm not so
> > > keen to release manage with further cherry picking on to the
> > > release110 branch. If it's purely about bug fixes / improvements on
> > > select modules, can't they be done separately via the update centre?
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > >
> > > Neil
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org
> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>


Re: Re: What will be in 11.1/12?

2019-05-08 Thread Eric Bresie
While on the subject, just noticed on the Wiki page (not sure if this is the 
old page or hasn’t been redirected yet - maybe a separate issue there) 
http://wiki.netbeans.org/Main_Page that the Next Planned still has Netbeans 9 
as next. Was this the page planned to be updated as part of this work?

Eric Bresie
ebre...@gmail.com
> On May 5, 2019 at 1:40:30 PM CDT, Geertjan Wielenga  
> wrote:
> On Sun, 5 May 2019 at 18:51, Neil C Smith  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Sun, 5 May 2019 at 16:32, Geertjan Wielenga 
> > wrote:
> > > Regardless of who becomes the next release manager, can we get an easy
> > view
> > > into which pull requests will be part of the release?
> >
> > IMO, if we're doing this June release we should be freezing master at
> > the end of May and releasing whatever is there as NB12. And fixing
> > that date as soon as possible so there's an advertised time to fix up
> > any desired PR's for that release. Cherry-picking things to include,
>
>
> Just for clarity — I’m not cherry picking, instead, what I’m trying to
> establish is a list of features, enhancements, and fixes that we already
> know will be part of the June release.
>
>
> > or deciding now whether it counts as "major" or "minor", seems counter
> > to doing time-based releases.
>
>
> So, you’re saying it will definitely be Apache NetBeans 12?
>
> I’m asking because I’d like to start putting a release page together on the
> Wiki and I’d also like to know what NetCAT should be focused on.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>
>
>
> >
> > And I still think it would be good to freeze master at branch point
> > for anything other than fixes intended for the next release, and run
> > merge windows for new features after the releases are done.
> >
> > I'd be happy to consider being release manager this time around, as
> > discussed last time, if we do something along these lines. I'm not so
> > keen to release manage with further cherry picking on to the
> > release110 branch. If it's purely about bug fixes / improvements on
> > select modules, can't they be done separately via the update centre?
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > -
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> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >


Re: Uploading binaries to osuosl.org?

2019-05-08 Thread Geertjan Wielenga
Emi should know, he set it up.

Gj

On Wed, 8 May 2019 at 01:04, Antonio  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> How am I supposed to upload binaries to
> http://netbeans.osuosl.org/binaries/?
>
> Thanks,
> Antonio
>
> P.S.: Is this documented anywhere? I'd happy to document it. The Infra
> section in our confluence seems a good fit.
>
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>
>
>
>