Re: ESP32S3 arbitrary crash when no optimization configured

[Bill Rees]

Hi All;

    From the discussion the reason for CONFIG_DEBUG_NOOPT to fail is 
already known. Is this true?


Confused and ignorant
Bill Rees

On 9/18/2023 8:55 AM, Tiago Medicci Serrano wrote:

Hi Mike,

NuttX + Espressif's SoCs are intended to be built with optimization
enabled. Otherwise, few practical applications would be possible and you'd
need to reconsider stack sizes, for instance. So, please don't disable
optimization while building practical applications.

Usually, it isn't needed to disable optimization to debug the code, but If
you really need to turn it off to debug a specific function, consider using
the attribute `__attribute__((optimize(0)))`.

Best regards,

Em seg., 18 de set. de 2023 às 12:05, Alan C. Assis 
escreveu:


Hi Mike,

I remember facing similar issue with ESP32 in the past.

Because I started using NuttX with ARM chip and in the past the GCC
toolchain has some issue with you are trying to compile debug symbols
(-g) and optimization enabled (-O2) I always disabled optimization
while enabling debugging. (Fortunately those day are gone, currently
gcc for ARM Cortex chips work fine with -g and -O2 at same time).

So when I started working with Xtensa I replicated this same behavior,
disabling the optimization and enabling the debug. So it started to
fail.

So some friends with more experience in Xtensa instructed me to just
use the -g and -O2 at same time. And I never investigate further about
it.

Probably this same issue will happen on ESP-IDF (just guessing, I
didn't check it). I think it could be a good place to start your
investigation.

BR,

Alan

On 9/18/23, Mike Moretti  wrote:

Hi,

I'm using NuttX 12.2.1 with ESP32S3 and have been trying for days to
figure out why it crashes on boot with our custom board/app.  It turns
out that turning off CONFIG_DEBUG_FULLOPT and turning on
CONFIG_DEBUG_NOOPT is what's causing my issue (via menuconfig).  The
default from all the other esp32s3 configurations has FULLOPT on and
NOOPT off.  So, to verify it wasn't just in our custom board/app, I
tried this on the default esp32s3-devkit:wifi configuration, and IT DID
THE SAME THING, it crashes!  This is the second time I've had an issue
with random configuration settings causing the nuttx code to crash
arbitrarily.  (The first was enabling CONFIG_DEBUG_ASSERTIONS for esp32
doing the same thing, which I previously posted about).

What the heck is going on?  Is the esp32/s3 port really this unstable?

-m

Re: ESP32S3 arbitrary crash when no optimization configured

[Nathan Hartman]

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 12:07 PM Mike Moretti 
wrote:

> This is the kind of thing that really should be documented somewhere.
> In bold, "DO NOT TURN OFF OPTIMIZATION because...". Either that or
> disallow it being changed, or make FULLOPT the default for every platform?



Sometimes you really do need to disable optimization or you cannot
single-step through code in a coherent manner.

Yes, that could affect stack sizes and other things. Debugging can be a
tricky business.

Cheers
Nathan

Re: ESP32S3 arbitrary crash when no optimization configured

[Alan C. Assis]

Hi Mike,

Yes, I just noticed this option in the Kconfig:

choice
prompt "Optimization Level"
default DEBUG_NOOPT if DEBUG_SYMBOLS
default DEBUG_FULLOPT if !DEBUG_SYMBOLS

Probably this is from the days when GCC for ARM and other chips didn't
work well with debug enable and optimization enabled.

I think this is not a requirement anymore. But it is hard to say,
because NuttX support *a lot* of different architectures beyond ARM
and Xtensa.

BR,

Alan

On 9/18/23, Mike Moretti  wrote:
> This is the kind of thing that really should be documented somewhere.
> In bold, "DO NOT TURN OFF OPTIMIZATION because...". Either that or
> disallow it being changed, or make FULLOPT the default for every platform?
>
> I only stumbled upon this because I missed copying one single config
> line (the FULLOPT=y one) from the sample esp32s3 config files to our
> custom board file and didn't think it actually mattered when I was
> diffing the generated configs with the sample generated configs for
> verification (because, you know, it's just "optimization", and normally
> in any other typical development environment I would actually want noopt
> for debugging).  And without it, the default was NOOPT and crashes.
>
> -m
>
>
> On 9/18/2023 11:55 AM, Tiago Medicci Serrano wrote:
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> NuttX + Espressif's SoCs are intended to be built with optimization
>> enabled. Otherwise, few practical applications would be possible and
>> you'd
>> need to reconsider stack sizes, for instance. So, please don't disable
>> optimization while building practical applications.
>>
>> Usually, it isn't needed to disable optimization to debug the code, but
>> If
>> you really need to turn it off to debug a specific function, consider
>> using
>> the attribute `__attribute__((optimize(0)))`.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Em seg., 18 de set. de 2023 às 12:05, Alan C. Assis 
>> escreveu:
>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>>
>>> I remember facing similar issue with ESP32 in the past.
>>>
>>> Because I started using NuttX with ARM chip and in the past the GCC
>>> toolchain has some issue with you are trying to compile debug symbols
>>> (-g) and optimization enabled (-O2) I always disabled optimization
>>> while enabling debugging. (Fortunately those day are gone, currently
>>> gcc for ARM Cortex chips work fine with -g and -O2 at same time).
>>>
>>> So when I started working with Xtensa I replicated this same behavior,
>>> disabling the optimization and enabling the debug. So it started to
>>> fail.
>>>
>>> So some friends with more experience in Xtensa instructed me to just
>>> use the -g and -O2 at same time. And I never investigate further about
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Probably this same issue will happen on ESP-IDF (just guessing, I
>>> didn't check it). I think it could be a good place to start your
>>> investigation.
>>>
>>> BR,
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>> On 9/18/23, Mike Moretti  wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm using NuttX 12.2.1 with ESP32S3 and have been trying for days to
 figure out why it crashes on boot with our custom board/app.  It turns
 out that turning off CONFIG_DEBUG_FULLOPT and turning on
 CONFIG_DEBUG_NOOPT is what's causing my issue (via menuconfig).  The
 default from all the other esp32s3 configurations has FULLOPT on and
 NOOPT off.  So, to verify it wasn't just in our custom board/app, I
 tried this on the default esp32s3-devkit:wifi configuration, and IT DID
 THE SAME THING, it crashes!  This is the second time I've had an issue
 with random configuration settings causing the nuttx code to crash
 arbitrarily.  (The first was enabling CONFIG_DEBUG_ASSERTIONS for esp32
 doing the same thing, which I previously posted about).

 What the heck is going on?  Is the esp32/s3 port really this unstable?

 -m

>>
>
>

Re: ESP32S3 arbitrary crash when no optimization configured

[Bill Rees]

Hi Mike;


I haven't seen any screen dump of the error message(s). Are there any logs?

Bill

On 9/18/2023 9:04 AM, Mike Moretti wrote:
This is the kind of thing that really should be documented somewhere. 
In bold, "DO NOT TURN OFF OPTIMIZATION because...". Either that or 
disallow it being changed, or make FULLOPT the default for every 
platform?


I only stumbled upon this because I missed copying one single config 
line (the FULLOPT=y one) from the sample esp32s3 config files to our 
custom board file and didn't think it actually mattered when I was 
diffing the generated configs with the sample generated configs for 
verification (because, you know, it's just "optimization", and 
normally in any other typical development environment I would actually 
want noopt for debugging).  And without it, the default was NOOPT and 
crashes.


-m


On 9/18/2023 11:55 AM, Tiago Medicci Serrano wrote:

Hi Mike,

NuttX + Espressif's SoCs are intended to be built with optimization
enabled. Otherwise, few practical applications would be possible and 
you'd

need to reconsider stack sizes, for instance. So, please don't disable
optimization while building practical applications.

Usually, it isn't needed to disable optimization to debug the code, 
but If
you really need to turn it off to debug a specific function, consider 
using

the attribute `__attribute__((optimize(0)))`.

Best regards,

Em seg., 18 de set. de 2023 às 12:05, Alan C. Assis 
escreveu:


Hi Mike,

I remember facing similar issue with ESP32 in the past.

Because I started using NuttX with ARM chip and in the past the GCC
toolchain has some issue with you are trying to compile debug symbols
(-g) and optimization enabled (-O2) I always disabled optimization
while enabling debugging. (Fortunately those day are gone, currently
gcc for ARM Cortex chips work fine with -g and -O2 at same time).

So when I started working with Xtensa I replicated this same behavior,
disabling the optimization and enabling the debug. So it started to
fail.

So some friends with more experience in Xtensa instructed me to just
use the -g and -O2 at same time. And I never investigate further about
it.

Probably this same issue will happen on ESP-IDF (just guessing, I
didn't check it). I think it could be a good place to start your
investigation.

BR,

Alan

On 9/18/23, Mike Moretti  wrote:

Hi,

I'm using NuttX 12.2.1 with ESP32S3 and have been trying for days to
figure out why it crashes on boot with our custom board/app.  It turns
out that turning off CONFIG_DEBUG_FULLOPT and turning on
CONFIG_DEBUG_NOOPT is what's causing my issue (via menuconfig).  The
default from all the other esp32s3 configurations has FULLOPT on and
NOOPT off.  So, to verify it wasn't just in our custom board/app, I
tried this on the default esp32s3-devkit:wifi configuration, and IT 
DID

THE SAME THING, it crashes!  This is the second time I've had an issue
with random configuration settings causing the nuttx code to crash
arbitrarily.  (The first was enabling CONFIG_DEBUG_ASSERTIONS for 
esp32

doing the same thing, which I previously posted about).

What the heck is going on?  Is the esp32/s3 port really this unstable?

-m

Re: ESP32S3 arbitrary crash when no optimization configured

[Mike Moretti]

This is the kind of thing that really should be documented somewhere.  
In bold, "DO NOT TURN OFF OPTIMIZATION because...". Either that or 
disallow it being changed, or make FULLOPT the default for every platform?


I only stumbled upon this because I missed copying one single config 
line (the FULLOPT=y one) from the sample esp32s3 config files to our 
custom board file and didn't think it actually mattered when I was 
diffing the generated configs with the sample generated configs for 
verification (because, you know, it's just "optimization", and normally 
in any other typical development environment I would actually want noopt 
for debugging).  And without it, the default was NOOPT and crashes.


-m


On 9/18/2023 11:55 AM, Tiago Medicci Serrano wrote:

Hi Mike,

NuttX + Espressif's SoCs are intended to be built with optimization
enabled. Otherwise, few practical applications would be possible and you'd
need to reconsider stack sizes, for instance. So, please don't disable
optimization while building practical applications.

Usually, it isn't needed to disable optimization to debug the code, but If
you really need to turn it off to debug a specific function, consider using
the attribute `__attribute__((optimize(0)))`.

Best regards,

Em seg., 18 de set. de 2023 às 12:05, Alan C. Assis 
escreveu:


Hi Mike,

I remember facing similar issue with ESP32 in the past.

Because I started using NuttX with ARM chip and in the past the GCC
toolchain has some issue with you are trying to compile debug symbols
(-g) and optimization enabled (-O2) I always disabled optimization
while enabling debugging. (Fortunately those day are gone, currently
gcc for ARM Cortex chips work fine with -g and -O2 at same time).

So when I started working with Xtensa I replicated this same behavior,
disabling the optimization and enabling the debug. So it started to
fail.

So some friends with more experience in Xtensa instructed me to just
use the -g and -O2 at same time. And I never investigate further about
it.

Probably this same issue will happen on ESP-IDF (just guessing, I
didn't check it). I think it could be a good place to start your
investigation.

BR,

Alan

On 9/18/23, Mike Moretti  wrote:

Hi,

I'm using NuttX 12.2.1 with ESP32S3 and have been trying for days to
figure out why it crashes on boot with our custom board/app.  It turns
out that turning off CONFIG_DEBUG_FULLOPT and turning on
CONFIG_DEBUG_NOOPT is what's causing my issue (via menuconfig).  The
default from all the other esp32s3 configurations has FULLOPT on and
NOOPT off.  So, to verify it wasn't just in our custom board/app, I
tried this on the default esp32s3-devkit:wifi configuration, and IT DID
THE SAME THING, it crashes!  This is the second time I've had an issue
with random configuration settings causing the nuttx code to crash
arbitrarily.  (The first was enabling CONFIG_DEBUG_ASSERTIONS for esp32
doing the same thing, which I previously posted about).

What the heck is going on?  Is the esp32/s3 port really this unstable?

-m

Re: ESP32S3 arbitrary crash when no optimization configured

[Tiago Medicci Serrano]

Hi Mike,

NuttX + Espressif's SoCs are intended to be built with optimization
enabled. Otherwise, few practical applications would be possible and you'd
need to reconsider stack sizes, for instance. So, please don't disable
optimization while building practical applications.

Usually, it isn't needed to disable optimization to debug the code, but If
you really need to turn it off to debug a specific function, consider using
the attribute `__attribute__((optimize(0)))`.

Best regards,

Em seg., 18 de set. de 2023 às 12:05, Alan C. Assis 
escreveu:

> Hi Mike,
>
> I remember facing similar issue with ESP32 in the past.
>
> Because I started using NuttX with ARM chip and in the past the GCC
> toolchain has some issue with you are trying to compile debug symbols
> (-g) and optimization enabled (-O2) I always disabled optimization
> while enabling debugging. (Fortunately those day are gone, currently
> gcc for ARM Cortex chips work fine with -g and -O2 at same time).
>
> So when I started working with Xtensa I replicated this same behavior,
> disabling the optimization and enabling the debug. So it started to
> fail.
>
> So some friends with more experience in Xtensa instructed me to just
> use the -g and -O2 at same time. And I never investigate further about
> it.
>
> Probably this same issue will happen on ESP-IDF (just guessing, I
> didn't check it). I think it could be a good place to start your
> investigation.
>
> BR,
>
> Alan
>
> On 9/18/23, Mike Moretti  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm using NuttX 12.2.1 with ESP32S3 and have been trying for days to
> > figure out why it crashes on boot with our custom board/app.  It turns
> > out that turning off CONFIG_DEBUG_FULLOPT and turning on
> > CONFIG_DEBUG_NOOPT is what's causing my issue (via menuconfig).  The
> > default from all the other esp32s3 configurations has FULLOPT on and
> > NOOPT off.  So, to verify it wasn't just in our custom board/app, I
> > tried this on the default esp32s3-devkit:wifi configuration, and IT DID
> > THE SAME THING, it crashes!  This is the second time I've had an issue
> > with random configuration settings causing the nuttx code to crash
> > arbitrarily.  (The first was enabling CONFIG_DEBUG_ASSERTIONS for esp32
> > doing the same thing, which I previously posted about).
> >
> > What the heck is going on?  Is the esp32/s3 port really this unstable?
> >
> > -m
> >
>


-- 
Tiago Medicci Serrano

Embedded Software Engineer
MSc Electronics/Microelectronics
m: +55 (19) 981403886 <+55+(19)+981403886>
e: tiago.medi...@gmail.com
a: Campinas, Brazil
Follow me:

Re: ESP32S3 arbitrary crash when no optimization configured

[Alan C. Assis]

Hi Mike,

I remember facing similar issue with ESP32 in the past.

Because I started using NuttX with ARM chip and in the past the GCC
toolchain has some issue with you are trying to compile debug symbols
(-g) and optimization enabled (-O2) I always disabled optimization
while enabling debugging. (Fortunately those day are gone, currently
gcc for ARM Cortex chips work fine with -g and -O2 at same time).

So when I started working with Xtensa I replicated this same behavior,
disabling the optimization and enabling the debug. So it started to
fail.

So some friends with more experience in Xtensa instructed me to just
use the -g and -O2 at same time. And I never investigate further about
it.

Probably this same issue will happen on ESP-IDF (just guessing, I
didn't check it). I think it could be a good place to start your
investigation.

BR,

Alan

On 9/18/23, Mike Moretti  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm using NuttX 12.2.1 with ESP32S3 and have been trying for days to
> figure out why it crashes on boot with our custom board/app.  It turns
> out that turning off CONFIG_DEBUG_FULLOPT and turning on
> CONFIG_DEBUG_NOOPT is what's causing my issue (via menuconfig).  The
> default from all the other esp32s3 configurations has FULLOPT on and
> NOOPT off.  So, to verify it wasn't just in our custom board/app, I
> tried this on the default esp32s3-devkit:wifi configuration, and IT DID
> THE SAME THING, it crashes!  This is the second time I've had an issue
> with random configuration settings causing the nuttx code to crash
> arbitrarily.  (The first was enabling CONFIG_DEBUG_ASSERTIONS for esp32
> doing the same thing, which I previously posted about).
>
> What the heck is going on?  Is the esp32/s3 port really this unstable?
>
> -m
>

ESP32S3 arbitrary crash when no optimization configured

[Mike Moretti]

Hi,

I'm using NuttX 12.2.1 with ESP32S3 and have been trying for days to 
figure out why it crashes on boot with our custom board/app.  It turns 
out that turning off CONFIG_DEBUG_FULLOPT and turning on 
CONFIG_DEBUG_NOOPT is what's causing my issue (via menuconfig).  The 
default from all the other esp32s3 configurations has FULLOPT on and 
NOOPT off.  So, to verify it wasn't just in our custom board/app, I 
tried this on the default esp32s3-devkit:wifi configuration, and IT DID 
THE SAME THING, it crashes!  This is the second time I've had an issue 
with random configuration settings causing the nuttx code to crash 
arbitrarily.  (The first was enabling CONFIG_DEBUG_ASSERTIONS for esp32 
doing the same thing, which I previously posted about).


What the heck is going on?  Is the esp32/s3 port really this unstable?

-m