RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

[Jörg Schmidt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 9:08 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> 
> 
> Am 10.11.21 um 18:38 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
> A mailing list is not a lawless space!
> 
> But free speech is free speech - on mailing lists as anywhere else.
> 
> Who claims freedom of opinion has to bear contradiction.
> 
> Free speech has implications; sometimes it causes a lack of 
> friends and 
> understanding.

In constitutional states, there are also certain limits to freedom of 
expression that are set by the legislature.

Perhaps you should think about how you would feel about being called a "liar", 
as you know that some of your clients are reading along here.


greetings,
Jörg


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[GitHub] [openoffice-org] jeanmicoste opened a new pull request #60: Update index2.html

[GitBox]

jeanmicoste opened a new pull request #60:
URL: https://github.com/apache/openoffice-org/pull/60


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Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

[Dave]

On 10/11/2021 21:28, Kay Schenk wrote:
> my thoughts
> 
> Once upon a time, mailing list moderators were listed on the project
> page -- openoffice.apache.org -- along with the mailing lists. I see
> that this is no longer the case.  It might be a good idea to list the
> moderators...but as Dave sez, make it clear they are not to be directly
> contacted and (maybe?) to contact the PMC about issues with mailing list
> behavior instead(???)

Hi Kay,

Thanks for your input. Yes, I also remember those pre-Apache days.

Since 2001 moderators have been contactable via owner- address.

Unless things get really out of hand, I do not think it is necessary to
involve the PMC group of members, just allow moderators to do their job
and manage mailing list issues.

I have been sorely tempted to put on my "Moderator Hat" and step in on
some aspects of this thread, but since I personally contributed to part
of the commentary I felt it more appropriate for me to step back and
allow another moderator to handle things, if they chose to do so.

However, I would ask that now everyone here has vented their thoughts
and grievances to the list, can we please put our differences aside and
move on. Remembering that we are all posting here in the common interest
of taking the AOO project forward, even if we have different ways of
expressing that interest.

Thanks and kindest regards to you all.

Dave


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Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

[Kay Schenk]

On 11/9/21 20:25, Dave Fisher wrote:


Sent from my iPhone


On Nov 9, 2021, at 3:48 PM, Marcus  wrote:

Am 07.11.21 um 21:18 schrieb Dave:

On 07/11/2021 19:42, Dave Fisher wrote:

Sorry to put it this way Dave, but this is the same answer that I have
had received from you and other PMC members previously.

If your statement is true, then we and the ASF have a very serious and
extreme privacy challenge here:
https://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice

In my view anyone who "steps up to he plate" for ANY role in an OPEN
source project should not have any concerns about being identified a
contributor and their role that project. I am not ashamed of being
identified as a (very small, relatively unimportant) contributor to the
AOO project and I suggest that ANYONE who is wishes to adopt this
underhanded, secretive approach, should step away from the project.

I agree about every role except moderation. I moderate 27 different Apache 
Mailing Lists only one of which is an AOO list.

If the community wishes to disclose all of the moderators that would be an 
acceptable outcome.

I read your words, which are the same as you and other PMC members have
previously stated, but I still do not read any explanation as to the
rational of why moderators should hold any more of an exclusive or
covert role within the ASF.
Let's just put this down to my natural stupidity and end this thread,
because there is nothing to be gained by perusing the subject.

normally I would agree. However, I'm curious to know what you mean with "... why 
moderators should hold any more of an exclusive or covert role within the ASF ..." 
and why you think there is something secret?

A moderator is just a committer as you and me. Some are also a PMC member or 
maybe also supporter/committer/member of other ASF projects. But thats it.

I volunteer to create a Wiki page to show who is moderating which mailing 
list(s) - if the community think it has a value.


my thoughts

Once upon a time, mailing list moderators were listed on the project 
page -- openoffice.apache.org -- along with the mailing lists. I see 
that this is no longer the case.  It might be a good idea to list the 
moderators...but as Dave sez, make it clear they are not to be directly 
contacted and (maybe?) to contact the PMC about issues with mailing list 
behavior instead(???)



That’s ok as long as it is made clear NOT to ever contact moderators directly 
about the mailing list.

I hope you see the conundrum being presented.

Regards,
Dave

Marcus


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--
---
"Do what you can, with what you've got,
  where you are."
  -- Theodore Roosevelt
Kay Schenk


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Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

[Dr. Michael Stehmann]

Am 10.11.21 um 18:38 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
A mailing list is not a lawless space!

But free speech is free speech - on mailing lists as anywhere else.

Who claims freedom of opinion has to bear contradiction.

Free speech has implications; sometimes it causes a lack of friends and 
understanding.


Kind regards
Michael



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[GitHub] [openoffice-org] marcus-aoo commented on pull request #59: Update index2.html

[GitBox]

marcus-aoo commented on pull request #59:
URL: https://github.com/apache/openoffice-org/pull/59#issuecomment-965629949


   Thanks for for the change. For the moment I've committed it locally.
   You may want to translate also some more tip texts in ".../fr/index2.html". 
See lines 124 200, 205, 210, 215, 231, 233.


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Re: Openssl, serf and curl

[Matthias Seidel]

Am 10.11.21 um 19:30 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
> We could, but they are worse at releases than we are :-P

A problem that needs to be fixed... ;-)

BTW: I think you reverted one of my commits?

>
>> On Nov 10, 2021, at 1:24 PM, Matthias Seidel  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Am 10.11.21 um 19:19 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>> To be honest, I think we are *stuck* with OpenSSL 1.0.2 until Serf is 
>>> upgraded to support 1.1
>> Serf is an Apache project isn't it?
>>
>> Should we ask for collaboration?
>>
>>>
 On Nov 10, 2021, at 12:22 PM, Matthias Seidel  
 wrote:

 Am 10.11.21 um 18:05 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
> Ugg ugg and double ugg
>
> We seem to be stuck in a chicken-and-egg situation.
>
> Do we *really* need OpenSSL 1.1? Because even the latest release of serf 
> doesn't really support that.
>
> What is the issue w/ using OpenSSL 1.0.2 that is driving us to OpenSSL 
> 1.1?
 The main problem is that Let's Encrypt root certificates expired at the
 end of October and OpenSSL 1.0.2 has problems with the new ones:

 https://www.openssl.org/blog/blog/2021/09/13/LetsEncryptRootCertExpire/

 For whatever reason it still works on Windows, but AOO on Linux and
 macOS cannot connect to our Update Feed and the extensions site anymore.

 Workaround 3 (mentioned in the article) would be a possibility to fix
 that on the server side.

> PS: OpenSSL is universally, IMO, becoming a major PITA. I'm all for 
> upgrades and keeping things fresh, but it seems like it is moving way too 
> fast for its consumers.
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>
>>> -
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>>> 
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>>> 



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Re: Openssl, serf and curl

[Jim Jagielski]

We could, but they are worse at releases than we are :-P

> On Nov 10, 2021, at 1:24 PM, Matthias Seidel  
> wrote:
> 
> Am 10.11.21 um 19:19 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>> To be honest, I think we are *stuck* with OpenSSL 1.0.2 until Serf is 
>> upgraded to support 1.1
> 
> Serf is an Apache project isn't it?
> 
> Should we ask for collaboration?
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2021, at 12:22 PM, Matthias Seidel  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Am 10.11.21 um 18:05 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
 Ugg ugg and double ugg
 
 We seem to be stuck in a chicken-and-egg situation.
 
 Do we *really* need OpenSSL 1.1? Because even the latest release of serf 
 doesn't really support that.
 
 What is the issue w/ using OpenSSL 1.0.2 that is driving us to OpenSSL 1.1?
>>> The main problem is that Let's Encrypt root certificates expired at the
>>> end of October and OpenSSL 1.0.2 has problems with the new ones:
>>> 
>>> https://www.openssl.org/blog/blog/2021/09/13/LetsEncryptRootCertExpire/
>>> 
>>> For whatever reason it still works on Windows, but AOO on Linux and
>>> macOS cannot connect to our Update Feed and the extensions site anymore.
>>> 
>>> Workaround 3 (mentioned in the article) would be a possibility to fix
>>> that on the server side.
>>> 
 PS: OpenSSL is universally, IMO, becoming a major PITA. I'm all for 
 upgrades and keeping things fresh, but it seems like it is moving way too 
 fast for its consumers.
 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org 
>> 
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org 
>> 

Re: Openssl, serf and curl

[Matthias Seidel]

Am 10.11.21 um 19:19 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
> To be honest, I think we are *stuck* with OpenSSL 1.0.2 until Serf is 
> upgraded to support 1.1

Serf is an Apache project isn't it?

Should we ask for collaboration?

>
>
>> On Nov 10, 2021, at 12:22 PM, Matthias Seidel  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Am 10.11.21 um 18:05 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>> Ugg ugg and double ugg
>>>
>>> We seem to be stuck in a chicken-and-egg situation.
>>>
>>> Do we *really* need OpenSSL 1.1? Because even the latest release of serf 
>>> doesn't really support that.
>>>
>>> What is the issue w/ using OpenSSL 1.0.2 that is driving us to OpenSSL 1.1?
>> The main problem is that Let's Encrypt root certificates expired at the
>> end of October and OpenSSL 1.0.2 has problems with the new ones:
>>
>> https://www.openssl.org/blog/blog/2021/09/13/LetsEncryptRootCertExpire/
>>
>> For whatever reason it still works on Windows, but AOO on Linux and
>> macOS cannot connect to our Update Feed and the extensions site anymore.
>>
>> Workaround 3 (mentioned in the article) would be a possibility to fix
>> that on the server side.
>>
>>> PS: OpenSSL is universally, IMO, becoming a major PITA. I'm all for 
>>> upgrades and keeping things fresh, but it seems like it is moving way too 
>>> fast for its consumers.
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>
> -
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>



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Re: Openssl, serf and curl

[Jim Jagielski]

To be honest, I think we are *stuck* with OpenSSL 1.0.2 until Serf is upgraded 
to support 1.1


> On Nov 10, 2021, at 12:22 PM, Matthias Seidel  
> wrote:
> 
> Am 10.11.21 um 18:05 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>> Ugg ugg and double ugg
>> 
>> We seem to be stuck in a chicken-and-egg situation.
>> 
>> Do we *really* need OpenSSL 1.1? Because even the latest release of serf 
>> doesn't really support that.
>> 
>> What is the issue w/ using OpenSSL 1.0.2 that is driving us to OpenSSL 1.1?
> 
> The main problem is that Let's Encrypt root certificates expired at the
> end of October and OpenSSL 1.0.2 has problems with the new ones:
> 
> https://www.openssl.org/blog/blog/2021/09/13/LetsEncryptRootCertExpire/
> 
> For whatever reason it still works on Windows, but AOO on Linux and
> macOS cannot connect to our Update Feed and the extensions site anymore.
> 
> Workaround 3 (mentioned in the article) would be a possibility to fix
> that on the server side.
> 
>> 
>> PS: OpenSSL is universally, IMO, becoming a major PITA. I'm all for upgrades 
>> and keeping things fresh, but it seems like it is moving way too fast for 
>> its consumers.
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
> 


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Re: macOS Monterey

[Bidouille]

 
> If they want a native ARM build, that would be a *major* task.
OK I understand

> If they want to help, just forward them to dev@.
End users stay end users.
 
> But, AOO (Intel) runs perfectly on Apple M1.
This is still my answer
But be aware that many Mac users argue that LibO is already compatible.

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Re: macOS Monterey

[Matthias Seidel]

Am 10.11.21 um 19:09 schrieb Bidouille:
>  
>> If they want a native ARM build, that would be a *major* task.
> OK I understand
>
>> If they want to help, just forward them to dev@.
> End users stay end users.
No, I was an end user years ago... ;-)
>  
>> But, AOO (Intel) runs perfectly on Apple M1.
> This is still my answer
> But be aware that many Mac users argue that LibO is already compatible.

It is their decision what they use...

We are totally independent from companies and have no paid developers.
That's the way it is.

>
> -
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>



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Re: macOS Monterey

[Matthias Seidel]

Am 10.11.21 um 18:52 schrieb Bidouille:
> OK but some end-users on french forum ask if AOO is full-compatible with M1

What is the definition of "full-compatible"?

If they want a native ARM build, that would be a *major* task.
If they want to help, just forward them to dev@.

But, AOO (Intel) runs perfectly on Apple M1.

>
> - Mail original -
>> De: "Matthias Seidel" 
>> À: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>> Envoyé: Mercredi 10 Novembre 2021 16:30:26
>> Objet: Re: macOS Monterey
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Am 10.11.21 um 11:48 schrieb Bidouille:
 I upgraded our M1 machine now to macOS Monterey 12.0.1.
 AOO 4.1.11 works without problems so far (only basic tests).
>>> Did you use Rosetta 2 or this works directly?
>> Since AOO for macOS is built for Intel and the M1 is an ARM chip it
>> is
>> automatically handled through Rosetta 2.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>    Matthias
>>
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>>>
>>
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Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

[Marcus]

Am 10.11.21 um 11:36 schrieb Dave Barton:

On 09/11/2021 23:48, Marcus wrote:

However, I'm curious to know what you mean with "... why moderators
should hold any more of an exclusive or covert role within the ASF ..."
and why you think there is something secret?


The answer to that "baited" question is: Everybody with any kind of role
within the ASF can be identified, EXCEPT MODERATORS,
Unidentified = Hidden = Secret.


a last attempt:

https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/committee/openoffice#mail

After login you can see all mailing lists with their moderators.

Marcus




On 10/11/2021 04:25, Dave Fisher wrote

That’s ok as long as it is made clear NOT to ever contact moderator
directly about the mailing list>>>
I hope you see the conundrum being presented.


The inbox of all moderators receive posts to owner-, which
effectively is direct contact, but if it is a matter of concern, let's
leave the status quo.

I really would like to end my involvement in this thread now.



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Re: macOS Monterey

[Bidouille]

OK but some end-users on french forum ask if AOO is full-compatible with M1

- Mail original -
> De: "Matthias Seidel" 
> À: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Envoyé: Mercredi 10 Novembre 2021 16:30:26
> Objet: Re: macOS Monterey
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Am 10.11.21 um 11:48 schrieb Bidouille:
> >> I upgraded our M1 machine now to macOS Monterey 12.0.1.
> >> AOO 4.1.11 works without problems so far (only basic tests).
> > Did you use Rosetta 2 or this works directly?
> 
> Since AOO for macOS is built for Intel and the M1 is an ARM chip it
> is
> automatically handled through Rosetta 2.
> 
> Regards,
> 
>    Matthias
> 
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> 
> 

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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

[Jörg Schmidt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Matthias Seidel [mailto:matthias.sei...@hamburg.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 6:33 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> "another point of view regarding facts"
> 
> In the old times a liar was just called a liar... J 

Are you calling me a liar in public? A mailing list is not a lawless space!



Jörg


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Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

[Marcus]

Am 10.11.21 um 05:25 schrieb Dave Fisher:

On Nov 9, 2021, at 3:48 PM, Marcus  wrote:
Am 07.11.21 um 21:18 schrieb Dave:

On 07/11/2021 19:42, Dave Fisher wrote:

Sorry to put it this way Dave, but this is the same answer that I have
had received from you and other PMC members previously.

If your statement is true, then we and the ASF have a very serious and
extreme privacy challenge here:
https://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#openoffice

In my view anyone who "steps up to he plate" for ANY role in an OPEN
source project should not have any concerns about being identified a
contributor and their role that project. I am not ashamed of being
identified as a (very small, relatively unimportant) contributor to the
AOO project and I suggest that ANYONE who is wishes to adopt this
underhanded, secretive approach, should step away from the project.

I agree about every role except moderation. I moderate 27 different Apache 
Mailing Lists only one of which is an AOO list.

If the community wishes to disclose all of the moderators that would be an 
acceptable outcome.

I read your words, which are the same as you and other PMC members have
previously stated, but I still do not read any explanation as to the
rational of why moderators should hold any more of an exclusive or
covert role within the ASF.
Let's just put this down to my natural stupidity and end this thread,
because there is nothing to be gained by perusing the subject.


normally I would agree. However, I'm curious to know what you mean with "... why 
moderators should hold any more of an exclusive or covert role within the ASF ..." 
and why you think there is something secret?

A moderator is just a committer as you and me. Some are also a PMC member or 
maybe also supporter/committer/member of other ASF projects. But thats it.

I volunteer to create a Wiki page to show who is moderating which mailing 
list(s) - if the community think it has a value.


That’s ok as long as it is made clear NOT to ever contact moderators directly 
about the mailing list.


sure, that and ...


I hope you see the conundrum being presented.


... I won't add any mail address. Names only.

Marcus


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Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

[Matthias Seidel]

Hi Michael,

"another point of view regarding facts"

In the old times a liar was just called a liar... ;-)

Regards,

   Matthias

Am 10.11.21 um 14:00 schrieb Dr. Michael Stehmann:
> Hi Jörg,
>
> we know that you have another point of view regarding facts than some
> other participants of this list.
>
> You should accept that nearly noone wants to discuss that in extenso
> because iz is totally useless.
>
> We don't need more quarrels, so please stopp your blaming.
>
> Kind regards
> Michael, who respects your skills, knowledge and your commitment in
> the past
>
> Am 10.11.21 um 08:03 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
>> Hallo Mathias,
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Matthias Seidel [mailto:matthias.sei...@hamburg.de]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2021 1:14 PM
>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am SO sick of these toxic threads of a certain person...
>>>
>>> I don't want to read his conspiracy theories anymore,
>>
>> I am not talking about conspiracy theories here. Stop making such
>> insinuations.
>>
>>> "D." has become committer and did stop his contributions
>>> shortly after.
>>
>> You know the other contexts very well.
>>
>>> How should "D." become part of the PMC?!
>>
>> Not at all, because I did not claim anything like that (=D. should
>> become part of the PMC). Please stop putting untrue statements in my
>> mouth.
>>
>>
>> Jörg
>>
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>



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RE: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

[Jörg Schmidt]

Hello Michael, 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 2:00 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?
> 
> Hi Jörg,
> 
> we know that you have another point of view regarding facts than some 
> other participants of this list.
> 
> You should accept that nearly noone wants to discuss that in extenso 
> because iz is totally useless.
> 
> We don't need more quarrels, so please stopp your blaming.

I will certainly not stop expressing my opinion freely, even if the current PMC 
obviously wants me to.
At least as a committer, I have binding rights and duties, and that includes 
the right to express my opinion, but not the duty to remain fearfully silent to 
the PMC.

And it's very simple: whoever doesn't like my opinion doesn't have to read it.

> Kind regards
> Michael, who respects your skills, knowledge and your 
> commitment in the past

Thank you. 
Then this could be a reason for you to work for these things to be appreciated 
in the same way as they have been appreciated by others who have done similar 
things.
To exclude me only because some influential people do not like me personally is 
simply unfair and I therefore oppose it.


greetings,
Jörg


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Re: Openssl, serf and curl

[Matthias Seidel]

Am 10.11.21 um 18:05 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
> Ugg ugg and double ugg
>
> We seem to be stuck in a chicken-and-egg situation.
>
> Do we *really* need OpenSSL 1.1? Because even the latest release of serf 
> doesn't really support that.
>
> What is the issue w/ using OpenSSL 1.0.2 that is driving us to OpenSSL 1.1?

The main problem is that Let's Encrypt root certificates expired at the
end of October and OpenSSL 1.0.2 has problems with the new ones:

https://www.openssl.org/blog/blog/2021/09/13/LetsEncryptRootCertExpire/

For whatever reason it still works on Windows, but AOO on Linux and
macOS cannot connect to our Update Feed and the extensions site anymore.

Workaround 3 (mentioned in the article) would be a possibility to fix
that on the server side.

>
> PS: OpenSSL is universally, IMO, becoming a major PITA. I'm all for upgrades 
> and keeping things fresh, but it seems like it is moving way too fast for its 
> consumers.
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Re: Openssl, serf and curl

[Jim Jagielski]

Ugg ugg and double ugg

We seem to be stuck in a chicken-and-egg situation.

Do we *really* need OpenSSL 1.1? Because even the latest release of serf 
doesn't really support that.

What is the issue w/ using OpenSSL 1.0.2 that is driving us to OpenSSL 1.1?

PS: OpenSSL is universally, IMO, becoming a major PITA. I'm all for upgrades 
and keeping things fresh, but it seems like it is moving way too fast for its 
consumers.
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Re: Openssl, serf and curl

[Matthias Seidel]

Am 10.11.21 um 16:51 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
> Yeah... I'm not sure which is the bigger effort: All the required 
> serf/apr/scons upgrade or the Curl one.

Some time ago the maintainer of Serf offered us help. I also think he
wanted to move away from Scons in the next build.

Meanwhile, I found this:

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=126312

Maybe that helps?

>
> For 4.1.X it's much more a big deal, because we support such ancient OSs. For 
> 4.2.x and trunk, not so much.
>
>> On Nov 10, 2021, at 10:42 AM, Matthias Seidel  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> Am 09.11.21 um 21:50 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>> I've recently folded in openssl-1.1 to trunk and all branches, but this 
>>> gets us in a corner.
>>>
>>> To support this version of openssl, we need to upgrade Serf. This means 
>>> that we need to also update apr and apr-util as well as include a 
>>> requirement that the build server also as SCons installed. This could be 
>>> problematic, esp for those older, legacy systems that we want to continue 
>>> to support.
>>>
>>> One alternative is to simply drop Serf completely; we already require curl, 
>>> and we could start using curl for the WebDav functionality instead of it 
>>> being the (sole, afaict) reason for Serf.
>>>
>>> The focus would be on ./main/ucb/source/ucp/webdav and migrating it from 
>>> Serf to curl... 
>> Looking at that code it may be a bigger rewrite?
>>
>> If it takes longer, can we do that in a separate branch?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>Matthias
>>
>>> Comments? Suggestions? Alternatives?
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>>>
>
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Re: Openssl, serf and curl

[Jim Jagielski]

Yeah... I'm not sure which is the bigger effort: All the required 
serf/apr/scons upgrade or the Curl one.

For 4.1.X it's much more a big deal, because we support such ancient OSs. For 
4.2.x and trunk, not so much.

> On Nov 10, 2021, at 10:42 AM, Matthias Seidel  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> Am 09.11.21 um 21:50 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>> I've recently folded in openssl-1.1 to trunk and all branches, but this gets 
>> us in a corner.
>> 
>> To support this version of openssl, we need to upgrade Serf. This means that 
>> we need to also update apr and apr-util as well as include a requirement 
>> that the build server also as SCons installed. This could be problematic, 
>> esp for those older, legacy systems that we want to continue to support.
>> 
>> One alternative is to simply drop Serf completely; we already require curl, 
>> and we could start using curl for the WebDav functionality instead of it 
>> being the (sole, afaict) reason for Serf.
>> 
>> The focus would be on ./main/ucb/source/ucp/webdav and migrating it from 
>> Serf to curl... 
> 
> Looking at that code it may be a bigger rewrite?
> 
> If it takes longer, can we do that in a separate branch?
> 
> Regards,
> 
>Matthias
> 
>> 
>> Comments? Suggestions? Alternatives?
>> -
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
> 


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Re: Openssl, serf and curl

[Matthias Seidel]

Hi Jim,

Am 09.11.21 um 21:50 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
> I've recently folded in openssl-1.1 to trunk and all branches, but this gets 
> us in a corner.
>
> To support this version of openssl, we need to upgrade Serf. This means that 
> we need to also update apr and apr-util as well as include a requirement that 
> the build server also as SCons installed. This could be problematic, esp for 
> those older, legacy systems that we want to continue to support.
>
> One alternative is to simply drop Serf completely; we already require curl, 
> and we could start using curl for the WebDav functionality instead of it 
> being the (sole, afaict) reason for Serf.
>
> The focus would be on ./main/ucb/source/ucp/webdav and migrating it from Serf 
> to curl... 

Looking at that code it may be a bigger rewrite?

If it takes longer, can we do that in a separate branch?

Regards,

   Matthias

>
> Comments? Suggestions? Alternatives?
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Re: macOS Monterey

[Matthias Seidel]

Hi,

Am 10.11.21 um 11:48 schrieb Bidouille:
>> I upgraded our M1 machine now to macOS Monterey 12.0.1.
>> AOO 4.1.11 works without problems so far (only basic tests).
> Did you use Rosetta 2 or this works directly?

Since AOO for macOS is built for Intel and the M1 is an ARM chip it is
automatically handled through Rosetta 2.

Regards,

   Matthias

>
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Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

[Dr. Michael Stehmann]

Hi Jörg,

we know that you have another point of view regarding facts than some 
other participants of this list.


You should accept that nearly noone wants to discuss that in extenso 
because iz is totally useless.


We don't need more quarrels, so please stopp your blaming.

Kind regards
Michael, who respects your skills, knowledge and your commitment in the past

Am 10.11.21 um 08:03 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:

Hallo Mathias,


-Original Message-
From: Matthias Seidel [mailto:matthias.sei...@hamburg.de]
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2021 1:14 PM
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

Hi all,

I am SO sick of these toxic threads of a certain person...

I don't want to read his conspiracy theories anymore,


I am not talking about conspiracy theories here. Stop making such insinuations.


"D." has become committer and did stop his contributions
shortly after.


You know the other contexts very well.


How should "D." become part of the PMC?!


Not at all, because I did not claim anything like that (=D. should become part 
of the PMC). Please stop putting untrue statements in my mouth.


Jörg


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Re: macOS Monterey

[Bidouille]

> I upgraded our M1 machine now to macOS Monterey 12.0.1.
> AOO 4.1.11 works without problems so far (only basic tests).
Did you use Rosetta 2 or this works directly?

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Re: Who moderates users...@openoffice.apache.org?

[Dave Barton]

Hi Marcus

On 09/11/2021 23:48, Marcus wrote:
> However, I'm curious to know what you mean with "... why moderators
> should hold any more of an exclusive or covert role within the ASF ..."
> and why you think there is something secret?

The answer to that "baited" question is: Everybody with any kind of role
within the ASF can be identified, EXCEPT MODERATORS,
Unidentified = Hidden = Secret.

> A moderator is just a committer as you and me. Some are also a PMC
> member or maybe also supporter/committer/member of other ASF projects.
> But thats it.

Since moderators are unidentified, I cannot say with any certainty if it
is still the case, but I have reason to believe that in years past there
have been one or more moderators who were not also committers. It's not
clear to me how that is/was possible, but Rob Weir advised me of this
when I first became a moderator.

I would very much appreciate that you stop publicly lecturing me about
how the ASF is structured. I joined this project at the same time as you
and possibly a little before you. So I understand how things work, even
if I do not always agree with "The Apache Way".

> I volunteer to create a Wiki page to show who is moderating which
> mailing list(s) - if the community think it has a value.

Since your offer is buried within a thread that most subscribers have
long since tired of, I doubt that you will get much, if any, feedback.

> Marcus

> On 10/11/2021 04:25, Dave Fisher wrote
>>> That’s ok as long as it is made clear NOT to ever contact moderator
>>> directly about the mailing list>>>
>>> I hope you see the conundrum being presented.

The inbox of all moderators receive posts to owner-, which
effectively is direct contact, but if it is a matter of concern, let's
leave the status quo.

I really would like to end my involvement in this thread now.

Dave


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