Re: [OSM-dev] Polygon inner/outer relation in osm file

[Paul Norman]

On 8/23/2016 6:58 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

recently we stumbled upon problematic behavior of current multipoligon 
processing in osm-carto


OpenStreetMap Carto does not do any multipolygon processing. That is all 
done by osm2pgsql, and the behavior of osm2pgsql has changed 
significantly from the version used on the OSMF tile servers.


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Re: [OSM-dev] Java, https and osm.org

[Wolfram Schneider]

On 9 August 2016 at 19:26, Andrew Hain  wrote:
> Java 8u101 has arrived and I understand that it has the extra security
> infrastructure that the HTTPS certificate we have on standby for the osm.org
> domain needs for Java programs to access it as https://osm.org, other
> software already being able to use the certificate.


The webserver https://osm.org use a wrong SSL certificate. Don't visit
the site until the admin fix the setup.
As a workaround, you can use https://www.openstreetmap.org

PS: same for planet.osm.org

curl https://planet.osm.org
curl: (51) SSL: no alternative certificate subject name matches target
host name 'planet.osm.org'

use https://planet.openstreetmap.org instead.

-Wolfram

-- 
Planet.osm extracts: http://extract.bbbike.org
BBBike Map Compare: http://bbbike.org/mc

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Re: [OSM-dev] Polygon inner/outer relation in osm file

[Jochen Topf]

On Di, Aug 23, 2016 at 03:58:02 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> > Il giorno 23 ago 2016, alle ore 15:21, Frederik Ramm  
> > ha scritto:
> > 
> > they can have missing or wrong inner/outer tags
> > (usually considered valid)... the C++/Python library "osmium" is
> > probably the most advanced in building proper polygons, or check out
> > osm2pgsql, imposm, or ogr2ogr which also have code to deal with that.
> 
> 
> recently we stumbled upon problematic behavior of current multipoligon 
> processing in osm-carto, as it drops tags on inner relation members if the 
> outer members (or the relation?) has the same tags. I believe this kind of 
> "fix" should not be performed, it leads to problems if this kind of mapping 
> was done on purpose, e.g. because of some properties being different.
> 
> Not applying "magic guesswork" also leads to more predictable behavior and 
> ultimately to mappers fixing the representation in case it was wrong.

This has been a long-standing problem. Unfortunately there is a lot of
data in OSM that is still tagged this way, so it is not an option to
just not do this anymore. Too many multipolygons (about 17,000) would
break. This is not the only problem with current multipolygon tagging,
and I am working on a "campaign" to get these fixed.

There is more background and some stats here:
https://github.com/osmlab/fixing-polygons-in-osm
http://area.jochentopf.com/stats/

Jochen
-- 
Jochen Topf  joc...@remote.org  http://www.jochentopf.com/  +49-351-31778688

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Re: [OSM-dev] Tile usage without proper identification

[Christoph Hormann]

On Tuesday 23 August 2016, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
> I'm in favour of privacy too but please spend a moment to think what
> would happen if everyone did what you do - we'd never know who uses
> our tiles, at all, and hence we'd be unable to allocate our resources
> for the maximum benefit of all.

The responsible and effective implementation of privacy here would be to 
configure your webbrowser to prevent websites to load external data 
like images.  This is course fairly theoretical since a lot of websites 
would become unusable.

If you turn off referrer transmission w.r.t. tiles the only effect this 
has is it prevents the tile provider from knowing what website you were 
requesting the tiles from.  It does not prevent the tile provider or 
the website operator from learning about your map browsing activity.  
In case of non-free tile providers by the way use of API keys and 
tokens means the website is known to the tile provider even without a 
referrer.  So you'd just punish the free services by withholding them 
information others get despite these measures.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-dev] Tile usage without proper identification

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 08/23/2016 04:45 PM, Manuel Reimer wrote:
> For privacy reasons all my browsers don't send a Referrer.

It is a valuable information for us who's using our tiles (not who as in
you-the-individual, but who as in the site you are visiting that points
your browser to our server). We need this information for proper rate
limiting and knowing when we might have to contact a site operator and
tell them to find another tile source.

I'm in favour of privacy too but please spend a moment to think what
would happen if everyone did what you do - we'd never know who uses our
tiles, at all, and hence we'd be unable to allocate our resources for
the maximum benefit of all.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-dev] Polygon inner/outer relation in osm file

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 23 ago 2016, alle ore 15:21, Frederik Ramm  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> they can have missing or wrong inner/outer tags
> (usually considered valid)... the C++/Python library "osmium" is
> probably the most advanced in building proper polygons, or check out
> osm2pgsql, imposm, or ogr2ogr which also have code to deal with that.


recently we stumbled upon problematic behavior of current multipoligon 
processing in osm-carto, as it drops tags on inner relation members if the 
outer members (or the relation?) has the same tags. I believe this kind of 
"fix" should not be performed, it leads to problems if this kind of mapping was 
done on purpose, e.g. because of some properties being different.

Not applying "magic guesswork" also leads to more predictable behavior and 
ultimately to mappers fixing the representation in case it was wrong.


cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-dev] Polygon inner/outer relation in osm file

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 08/23/2016 09:39 AM, patrick keshishian wrote:
> What is the mechanism used, while processing "relation"-s, in
> matching "inner" and "outer"-s of polygons?

There's no guarantee that role="inner" and role="outer" are even set. I
strongly advise against trying to write your own algorithm that combines
polygons; you will get 80% right quickly and fight with the other 20%
for weeks. Rings can be nested (valid), self-intersecting (invalid) or
missing bits (invalid), they can have missing or wrong inner/outer tags
(usually considered valid)... the C++/Python library "osmium" is
probably the most advanced in building proper polygons, or check out
osm2pgsql, imposm, or ogr2ogr which also have code to deal with that.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-dev] Polygon inner/outer relation in osm file

[Michael Zangl]

Hi,

There is no order for any of the multipolygon members. When I create them,
I try to sort them (outer before inner, then to form circles). JOSM
combines them to form circles for some months now. But there is no
convention.

So it is up to you to match the corresponding outer/inner rings and
find out if the multipolygon is valid.

> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:multipolygon#Valid_Multipolygon_conditions

Michael

Am 23.08.2016 um 09:39 schrieb patrick keshishian:
> Greetings,
> 
> What is the mechanism used, while processing "relation"-s, in
> matching "inner" and "outer"-s of polygons?
> 
> Examining some example data extracts (from geofabrik.de) it looked
> as if an "outer" is followed by its "inner"-s (if any).
> 
> But soon I came across ones like this:
> 
>changeset="17984334" uid="574654" user="Tom_Holland">
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
> 
> 
> I am really hoping to be missing something obvious, and that the
> import (or render) software does not examine each "inner" against
> each "outer" to determine the association.
> 
> Also hoping this is the appropriate list for this sort of questions.
> 
> --patrick
> 
> [0] http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3215648#map=16/19.9202/-155.8783
> 
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[OSM-dev] Polygon inner/outer relation in osm file

[patrick keshishian]

Greetings,

What is the mechanism used, while processing "relation"-s, in
matching "inner" and "outer"-s of polygons?

Examining some example data extracts (from geofabrik.de) it looked
as if an "outer" is followed by its "inner"-s (if any).

But soon I came across ones like this:













I am really hoping to be missing something obvious, and that the
import (or render) software does not examine each "inner" against
each "outer" to determine the association.

Also hoping this is the appropriate list for this sort of questions.

--patrick

[0] http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3215648#map=16/19.9202/-155.8783

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