[OSM-dev] Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices

[Mark Newnham]

Stemming from a discussion on a diary entry I created 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mark%20Newnham/diary/19723 , I'm trying to 
start a project about getting an improved home screen for openstreetmap.org 
when someone lands there while using a mobile device,especially a small device 
like a smartphone. I feel that it is extremely unfriendly (i know, i've used 
it) and that many potential contributors could be frightened away simply by the 
fact that there is no explanation to what is going on. A redirect to an 
extremely simple mobile framework screen would be better than what is going on 
now.
I've recently placed a request in to the wiki team to get the mobile frontend 
installed on the wiki as part of the same request.
I'm assuming that the mobile interface would have to be built in ruby, and I've 
no experience at all in that, and no real time to learn it. I've loads of 
experience in  php/javascript development and have used jquery wrappers to 
build mobile web apps, but I'm happy to be involved in building prototypes and  
to donate bandwidth and disk space to such a project.
I originally placed this message on the development forum, and it was suggested 
it should be placed here for a better response, so here it is...___
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dev@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [OSM-dev] Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices

[Mark Newnham]

In that case I will take no more of your time



 From: Tom Hughes 
To: Mark Newnham  
Cc: "dev@openstreetmap.org"  
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices
 

On 07/08/13 19:09, Mark Newnham wrote:

> Ok, I admit confusion. Are saying that the information you are supplying
> is coming from piwik?

It is, yes.

> If so then the release 1.12 allows taking of a data group, say
> Referrers->Search Engines/Keywords, then break that down by device type
> by creating a custom segment.

Ah yes I forgot about the segments stuff. We don't have that enabled but 
the moment so I'll have to investigate that.

Tom

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Re: [OSM-dev] Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices

[Tom Hughes]

On 07/08/13 19:09, Mark Newnham wrote:


Ok, I admit confusion. Are saying that the information you are supplying
is coming from piwik?


It is, yes.


If so then the release 1.12 allows taking of a data group, say
Referrers->Search Engines/Keywords, then break that down by device type
by creating a custom segment.


Ah yes I forgot about the segments stuff. We don't have that enabled but 
the moment so I'll have to investigate that.


Tom

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Re: [OSM-dev] Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices

[Mark Newnham]

Ok, I admit confusion. Are saying that the information you are supplying is 
coming from piwik? 

If so then the release 1.12 allows taking of a data group, say 
Referrers->Search Engines/Keywords, then break that down by device type by 
creating a custom segment.



 From: Tom Hughes 
To: Mark Newnham  
Cc: Saman Bemel-Benrud ; "dev@openstreetmap.org" 
 
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices
 

On 07/08/13 18:44, Mark Newnham wrote:

> I see that piwik has just added a  report segmentation feature that
> allows a full range of reports by device, so we could ultimately get all
> the information. I would suggest that there is a lot of value in
> tracking this data for a short while in the context of both an improved
> mobile experience and the development of the new main landing page.

Where do you think I got that device breakdown from ;-)

As I said however, while I can get a breakdown by device, or by referer 
I can't filter one by the other as far as I can see.

Tom

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Re: [OSM-dev] Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices

[Tom Hughes]

On 07/08/13 18:44, Mark Newnham wrote:


I see that piwik has just added a  report segmentation feature that
allows a full range of reports by device, so we could ultimately get all
the information. I would suggest that there is a lot of value in
tracking this data for a short while in the context of both an improved
mobile experience and the development of the new main landing page.


Where do you think I got that device breakdown from ;-)

As I said however, while I can get a breakdown by device, or by referer 
I can't filter one by the other as far as I can see.


Tom

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Re: [OSM-dev] Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices

[Mark Newnham]

I see that piwik has just added a  report segmentation feature that allows a 
full range of reports by device, so we could ultimately get all the 
information. I would suggest that there is a lot of value in tracking this data 
for a short while in the context of both an improved mobile experience and the 
development of the new main landing page.

Mark



 From: Tom Hughes 
To: Mark Newnham  
Cc: Saman Bemel-Benrud ; "dev@openstreetmap.org" 
 
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices
 

On 07/08/13 13:16, Mark Newnham wrote:
> So for for say, smartphones, could we analyze there referers/search
> terms?. I think I noticed piwik mentioned on the rails-dev list

I don't think we can break down referers by device, but overall looking at the 
top 100 non-search-engine referers we have 65% of the visits coming from 
craigslist with strassenweb.de a distance second with 5% of the visits.

Most refererals from search engines don't have identifiable search terms so 
there isn't much to say there.

Tom

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Re: [OSM-dev] Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices

[Tom Hughes]

On 07/08/13 13:16, Mark Newnham wrote:

So for for say, smartphones, could we analyze there referers/search
terms?. I think I noticed piwik mentioned on the rails-dev list


I don't think we can break down referers by device, but overall looking 
at the top 100 non-search-engine referers we have 65% of the visits 
coming from craigslist with strassenweb.de a distance second with 5% of 
the visits.


Most refererals from search engines don't have identifiable search terms 
so there isn't much to say there.


Tom

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Re: [OSM-dev] Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices

[Mark Newnham]

So for for say, smartphones, could we analyze there referers/search terms?. I 
think I noticed piwik mentioned on the rails-dev list

Mark



 From: Tom Hughes 
To: Mark Newnham  
Cc: Saman Bemel-Benrud ; "dev@openstreetmap.org" 
 
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 6:03 AM
Subject: Re: Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices
 

On 07/08/13 12:37, Mark Newnham wrote:

> Has there ever been any user-agent/refererer analysis done on osm.org? I
> looked at the http://osmlab.github.io/welcome-osm/ page, and whilst I
> would say, make that a redirect page for mobile devices today, I think
> it would be useful in the design process to know why people are landing
> on openstreetmap.

Yesterdays device breakdown is:

Desktop       80.37%
Smartphone    11.38%
Tablet         5.39%
Unknown        3.80%
Console        0.04%
Feature Phone  0.02%

Tom

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Re: [OSM-dev] Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices

[Tom Hughes]

On 07/08/13 12:37, Mark Newnham wrote:


Has there ever been any user-agent/refererer analysis done on osm.org? I
looked at the http://osmlab.github.io/welcome-osm/ page, and whilst I
would say, make that a redirect page for mobile devices today, I think
it would be useful in the design process to know why people are landing
on openstreetmap.


Yesterdays device breakdown is:

Desktop   80.37%
Smartphone11.38%
Tablet 5.39%
Unknown3.80%
Console0.04%
Feature Phone  0.02%

Tom

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Re: [OSM-dev] Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices

[Mark Newnham]

Has there ever been any user-agent/refererer analysis done on osm.org? I looked 
at the http://osmlab.github.io/welcome-osm/ page, and whilst I would say, make 
that a redirect page for mobile devices today, I think it would be useful in 
the design process to know why people are landing on openstreetmap. 

I would agree completely with your statement that "Mobile users tend to be more 
focused on quickly consuming content rather than creating", and I think a 
landing page for mobiles should be much more focused on how to consume 
openstreetmap data rather than create it.

Mark.



 From: Saman Bemel-Benrud 
To: Mark Newnham  
Cc: "dev@openstreetmap.org"  
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices
 


Hi Mark, 

Thanks for taking interest in the OpenStreetMap mobile experience. I've 
recently been working with John Firebaugh and others on improving the design of 
osm.org. Making the mobile experiecne better is one of the tasks we plan to 
take on soon.

The best way forward is to adapt a responsive web design approach. 
Implementation-wise, that means using as much of the same code and markup that 
the desktop site uses as possible, and then adjusting styles based on break 
points with CSS media queries. Now that table-based layouts have been removed 
completely from osm.org, we'll be able to establish a responsive grid across 
osm.org that transitions nicely from desktop to tablet to mobile. 

Beyond just "using media queries and a responsive grid", we need to address two 
problems:

1. The mobile use case differs from the desktop use case. Mobile users tend to 
be more focused on quickly consuming content rather than creating.
2. There are certain technical limitations that come with mobile/touch devices 
(for example, no web-based editors currently work on mobile, so the 'edit' tab 
should either be remove or adjusted to link to apps that do work on mobile 
devices).


I believe we'll be able to solve both these problems with a straightforward 
responsive web design approach.

Delivering a different site with a different codebase to mobile users would 
make maintenance and progress difficult. The most helpful thing you can do 
right now is make specific issues about how the current mobile experience falls 
short on the github issue tracker, and if you've got the technical know-how, to 
start fixing things and submitting pull requests: 
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues?direction=desc&sort=updated&state=open




On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Mark Newnham  wrote:

Apologies if a duplicate post, I submitted the same message onto the list 
before I was approved and it seems to be in moderator limbo
>Stemming from a discussion on a diary entry I created 
>http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mark%20Newnham/diary/19723 , I'm trying to 
>start a project about getting an improved home screen for openstreetmap.org 
>when someone lands there while using a mobile device,especially a small device 
>like a smartphone. I feel that it is extremely unfriendly (i know, i've used 
>it) and that many potential contributors could be frightened away simply by 
>the fact that there is no explanation to what is going on. A redirect to an 
>extremely simple mobile framework screen would be better than what is going on 
>now.
>I've recently placed a request in to the wiki team to get the mobile frontend 
>installed on the wiki as part of the same request.
>I'm assuming that the mobile interface would have to be built in ruby, and 
>I've no experience at all in that, and no real time to learn it. I've loads of 
>experience in  php/javascript development and have used jquery wrappers to 
>build mobile web apps, but I'm happy to be involved in building prototypes and 
> to donate bandwidth and disk space to such a project.
>I originally placed this message on the development forum, and it was 
>suggested it should be placed here for a better response, so here it is...
>___
>dev mailing list
>dev@openstreetmap.org
>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
>
>___
dev mailing list
dev@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [OSM-dev] Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices

[Saman Bemel-Benrud]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for taking interest in the OpenStreetMap mobile experience. I've
recently been working with John Firebaugh  and
others on improving the design of osm.org. Making the mobile experiecne
better is one of the tasks we plan to take on soon.

The best way forward is to adapt a responsive web design approach.
Implementation-wise, that means using as much of the same code and markup
that the desktop site uses as possible, and then adjusting styles based on
break points with CSS media queries. Now that table-based layouts have been
removed completely from osm.org, we'll be able to establish a responsive
grid across osm.org that transitions nicely from desktop to tablet to
mobile.

Beyond just "using media queries and a responsive grid", we need to address
two problems:

1. The mobile use case differs from the desktop use case. Mobile users tend
to be more focused on quickly consuming content rather than creating.
2. There are certain technical limitations that come with mobile/touch
devices (for example, no web-based editors currently work on mobile, so the
'edit' tab should either be remove or adjusted to link to apps that *do* work
on mobile devices).

I believe we'll be able to solve both these problems with a straightforward
responsive web design approach.

Delivering a different site with a different codebase to mobile users would
make maintenance and progress difficult. The most helpful thing you can do
right now is make specific issues about how the current mobile experience
falls short on the github issue tracker, and if you've got the technical
know-how, to start fixing things and submitting pull requests:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues?direction=desc&sort=updated&state=open



On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Mark Newnham  wrote:

> Apologies if a duplicate post, I submitted the same message onto the list
> before I was approved and it seems to be in moderator limbo
> Stemming from a discussion on a diary entry I created
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mark%20Newnham/diary/19723 , I'm trying
> to start a project about getting an improved home screen for
> openstreetmap.org when someone lands there while using a mobile
> device,especially a small device like a smartphone. I feel that it is
> extremely unfriendly (i know, i've used it) and that many potential
> contributors could be frightened away simply by the fact that there is no
> explanation to what is going on. A redirect to an extremely simple mobile
> framework screen would be better than what is going on now.
> I've recently placed a request in to the wiki team to get the mobile
> frontend installed on the wiki as part of the same request.
> I'm assuming that the mobile interface would have to be built in ruby, and
> I've no experience at all in that, and no real time to learn it. I've loads
> of experience in  php/javascript development and have used jquery wrappers
> to build mobile web apps, but I'm happy to be involved in building
> prototypes and  to donate bandwidth and disk space to such a project.
> I originally placed this message on the development forum, and it was
> suggested it should be placed here for a better response, so here it is...
>
> ___
> dev mailing list
> dev@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
>
>
___
dev mailing list
dev@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

[OSM-dev] Improvement to openstreetmap.org for mobile devices

[Mark Newnham]

Apologies if a duplicate post, I submitted the same message onto the list 
before I was approved and it seems to be in moderator limbo
Stemming from a discussion on a diary entry I created 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mark%20Newnham/diary/19723 , I'm trying to 
start a project about getting an improved home screen for openstreetmap.org 
when someone lands there while using a mobile device,especially a small device 
like a smartphone. I feel that it is extremely unfriendly (i know, i've used 
it) and that many potential contributors could be frightened away simply by the 
fact that there is no explanation to what is going on. A redirect to an 
extremely simple mobile framework screen would be better than what is going on 
now.
I've recently placed a request in to the wiki team to get the mobile frontend 
installed on the wiki as part of the same request.
I'm assuming that the mobile interface would have to be built in ruby, and I've 
no experience at all in that, and no real time to learn it. I've loads of 
experience in  php/javascript development and have used jquery wrappers to 
build mobile web apps, but I'm happy to be involved in building prototypes and  
to donate bandwidth and disk space to such a project.
I originally placed this message on the development forum, and it was suggested 
it should be placed here for a better response, so here it is...___
dev mailing list
dev@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev